Character body height in real life measurements

Syldras

So, in the German subforum we were wondering how tall the TES races would be in real life measurements. Since the numbers in the housing editor seem to be neither in cm nor in inches, we had to find a different solution. I had the idea to take an object as a reference which has almost always the same size. And after the remark was made that usually a chair is 45 cm (17.72 inches) high from the ground to the seating surface - we began stacking chairs (Now I finally know what the Sixth House cultists in Morrowind were doing in their bases...)

Of course it was just an experiment since the habits in Tamriel don't necessarily have to be like in real life.

However, with that method of measuring, my male Dunmer would be about 1,65 cm (5″5) tall, and my Altmer 1,93 cm (6″4). They both are about average size for their races.

I double checked it with proportions. In rl, a human head has a height of 20 to 21 cm. I took 21 cm as a reference. With that method of measuring, my Dunmer would be 1,68 cm (5″6) tall and my Altmer 1,95 cm (6″5). So, not a big difference to the numbers we had before.

According to this, I'd say an average male Dunmer is 1,65 to 1,70 cm (5″5 to 5″7) tall, and an average male Altmer 1,90 to 1,95 cm (6″3 to 6″5). Doesn't sound too wrong to me, actually.

Any comments? If you have already tried measuring your chars or to get some average values for the races, what were your results - more or less the same or something completely different?

Also I'm wondering if there's an official statement on that...

Sylvermynx

No clue, and doesn't really matter to me. I think there's a "height chart" somewhere in UESP's wiki.

Syldras

Sylvermynx wrote: »

No clue, and doesn't really matter to me. I think there's a "height chart" somewhere in UESP's wiki.

Thanks for your reply! I only know the chart for Skyrim, but even that one refered only to the measurements in the editor, unfortunately, an Imperial being "1" tall, an Altmer "1.08", but with no hint how to translate it to cm or inches. Some of us who roleplay or write stories about the TES universe were wondering.

Sylvermynx

Hmm. I actually haven't looked at the setup since.... um.... probably Morrowind (eh, TESIII not the current iteration). That was years (actually decades....) ago, and since I was at that point playing a Dunmer (yeah.... *shrug*), it just wasn't much of a big deal in a single-player game. I can't remember anything regarding comparative height/size in Arena or Daggerfall, and even in Oblivion and Skyrim, it didn't matter a lot to me as - SP games.

And in ESO.... I just tend to make my characters as tall as the slider goes, and depending on if male (where I give them the "classic" V silhouette of wide shoulders, good size chest, small waist and hips) or female (where they are as tall as possible, and very slim, no boobs to speak of and also no hips). I can see that it might be a situation in serious RP though (which I'm not into personally).

If the info in UESP or one of the other wikis isn't really useful, I'm not sure where you might go looking. Good luck!

Athyrium93

Hmm I wonder were that puts other races then, I'd be curious to see if you ever try any others!
From that reference I imagine my tiny curvy little female breton is like 4'6" then since most dunmer are at least a head taller

Tigerseye

Not sure I would rely on chair heights, in this game, as a reliable measure.

Tigerseye

For one thing, my (admittedly, fairly tall) female Bosmer's feet (easily) sit flat on the ground, when she sits on chairs.

So, that suggests they make the chairs on the smaller side, to fit the smallest chars in the game.

As opposed to in real life, where very petite adults can have their feet barely touch the ground, or even be left dangling, when they sit on a chair.

Syldras

Sylvermynx wrote: »

If the info in UESP or one of the other wikis isn't really useful, I'm not sure where you might go looking. Good luck!

Thanks! I know that UESP is normally a splendid source for everything TES, but in this case... Maybe there's a chance though that ZOS once published something somewhere and I/we just missed it. Actually I even think - but I might remember wrong - that there had been a size chart for Oblivion back in 2006. I can't remember where I saw it, though. Also, the sizes given for the races there don't necessarily have to be the same as in ESO.

Athyrium93 wrote: »

Hmm I wonder were that puts other races then, I'd be curious to see if you ever try any others!

Let me think... Most of my chars are male Altmers and Dunmers, but I also have one very small and one average sized male Bosmer, a tiny male Breton, an average female Dunmer, and an average female Khajiit. (Generally, it's really diverse with my chars, they don't necessarily have to be tall, not even handome/beautiful; I just want them realistic in a way). I might measure them somewhen later. Unfortunately, I'm not on the PTS and my character slots are all full, so I can't generate new chars just for measuring.

Tigerseye wrote: »

For one thing, my (admittedly, fairly tall) female Bosmer's feet (easily) sit flat on the ground, when she sits on chairs. So, that suggests they make the chairs on the smaller side, to fit the smallest chars in the game.

I've seen a male Bosmer who could not reach the ground with his feet while sitting.

Generally, I don't want to claim that we had found the secret measuring formula or whatever. We just had the idea to try it with 45 cm per chair, and I was surprised how (in my eyes) realistic the results turned out. Same with the proportions, with an average head being 21 cm overall.

Of course we could try it with other objects too. The question is: What could we use as a scale? The first ideas I had were a quill or maybe a tankard. But then, we don't know if it's really a goose quill in-game (which often have about the same size, at least the ones sufficient for writing), and with the tankard... They could be bigger or smaller in Tamriel than in rl. Who knows. have also considered if the typical shoulder height of animals could be used (I had many strange ideas)... But then, are they realistic in game?! (For example, I think the wolfhound looks rather small).

willjones1122

I believe there is some chicanery at work with the chairs/height. Taller characters actually sit further back on the chair so that their feet still sit flat on the ground without their knees being up above their ears. If they keep chair/character height constant (which i believe they do as scaling the chair would be noticed on very large/small characters) when sitting your bosmer might simply be sitting far enough forward on the chair for her feet to touch the floor. Now I'm not saying the chair is standard height, they actually look shorter to me, but it probably wouldn't deviate more than an inch or 2. And given that the OP then used average measurements for a human head to compare results I'd say it's a pretty good scale measurement for RP purposes. For a more complete measurement you could compare the scale of chairs to other objects with standard heights, like doors and tables (dinning tables of the more human standard races would be best as bedside tables and various races may have varying heights). Of course this is assuming that humans are the same size in Tamriel as they are on earth... Not exactly sure if the lore covers this or not. But i have done a lot of building from scale drawings and photographs and i have used this same trick to get pretty close.

Syldras

Athyrium93 wrote: »

From that reference I imagine my tiny curvy little female breton is like 4'6" then since most dunmer are at least a head taller

Not necessarily, since there are many players who make their chars extremely tall. So what you're seeing most of the time could be the max height, not the average.

willjones1122 wrote: »

If they keep chair/character height constant (which i believe they do as scaling the chair would be noticed on very large/small characters)

I can confirm, there is no scaling with furniture (other than mounts).

willjones1122 wrote: »

Of course this is assuming that humans are the same size in Tamriel as they are on earth... Not exactly sure if the lore covers this or not.

Well, we can't know. Might also be that everone is 5 m / over 16 ft tall on that planet

Generally I think it's weird that there were never official size charts or mentions of whatever kind by Bethesda or ZOS. I mean, there are even books where the exact names for Dunmer ordinators' underwear are mentioned (It's called "A Guide to Liturgical Vestments" and I found it just a few days ago, in case anyone is wondering).

Tigerseye

Syldras wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

If the info in UESP or one of the other wikis isn't really useful, I'm not sure where you might go looking. Good luck!

Thanks! I know that UESP is normally a splendid source for everything TES, but in this case... Maybe there's a chance though that ZOS once published something somewhere and I/we just missed it. Actually I even think - but I might remember wrong - that there had been a size chart for Oblivion back in 2006. I can't remember where I saw it, though. Also, the sizes given for the races there don't necessarily have to be the same as in ESO.

Athyrium93 wrote: »

Hmm I wonder were that puts other races then, I'd be curious to see if you ever try any others!

Let me think... Most of my chars are male Altmers and Dunmers, but I also have one very small and one average sized male Bosmer, a tiny male Breton, an average female Dunmer, and an average female Khajiit. (Generally, it's really diverse with my chars, they don't necessarily have to be tall, not even handome/beautiful; I just want them realistic in a way). I might measure them somewhen later. Unfortunately, I'm not on the PTS and my character slots are all full, so I can't generate new chars just for measuring.

Tigerseye wrote: »

For one thing, my (admittedly, fairly tall) female Bosmer's feet (easily) sit flat on the ground, when she sits on chairs. So, that suggests they make the chairs on the smaller side, to fit the smallest chars in the game.

I've seen a male Bosmer who could not reach the ground with his feet while sitting.

Generally, I don't want to claim that we had found the secret measuring formula or whatever. We just had the idea to try it with 45 cm per chair, and I was surprised how (in my eyes) realistic the results turned out. Same with the proportions, with an average head being 21 cm overall.

Of course we could try it with other objects too. The question is: What could we use as a scale? The first ideas I had were a quill or maybe a tankard. But then, we don't know if it's really a goose quill in-game (which often have about the same size, at least the ones sufficient for writing), and with the tankard... They could be bigger or smaller in Tamriel than in rl. Who knows. have also considered if the typical shoulder height of animals could be used (I had many strange ideas)... But then, are they realistic in game?! (For example, I think the wolfhound looks rather small).

Not sure it's entirely realistic if a female Breton works out at 4' 6"?

I know people were historically a little shorter, but then their furniture was, too.

The point is that Bosmer, especially male Bosmer (for some reason...?!) are a pretty diminuitive race.

It's even not like in real life, where we are all human beings, even if some of us are smaller than others.

All Bosmer (even the tallest of them) should be struggling (or unable) to put their feet flat on the floor, if chairs were the same height (compared with humans) as the ones we have in real life.

So, I would suggest they have been made to be slightly shorter than the ones in real life.

My guess would be about 40cm, rather than 45, but that's just a stab in the dark.

...and actually, when you look at the chairs, they look a little squat, compared to (modern) real life ones, too.

Tigerseye

Thinking about this, it would probably be more reliable to assume the average height of the various human races (whether modern day, or historical) and then, try to work out the height of the other races (and the chairs!), from that.

Rather than assuming the chairs, which fit most Bosmer, are the same height as our modern day chairs, which wouldn't.

I mean, either way you could be way off, but still.

feyii

I would say, ESO characters are giants compared to real life persons.
Have you ever used a melee skill in game with a range of 5 meters (skills are the only things where I have seen distance measurements on) and noticed how close you have to be to the opponent to actually hit them with it? that distance is less than a character height. So accordingly, ESO characters must be taller than 5 meters.

Jokes aside, I find the idea to measure character height based on relatable objects quite nice. The heights you calculated seem realistic to me. You could counter check even with the UESP height chart, if your altmer is actually 1.08 the size of your dunmer.

Syldras

Tigerseye wrote: »

Not sure it's entirely realistic if a female Breton works out at 4' 6"?

A female Breton is probably taller than 4″6. Actually, I think they're not so much shorter than the average Dunmer lady. It probably only looks that way because many player chars are made extremely tall. I have read a lot of times already that many many people try to make their chars as tall as possible.

Tigerseye wrote: »

I know people were historically a little shorter, but then their furniture was, too.

Yes, it has to do with nutrition. Also today, children born during or after a war or famine are mostly shorter than children born before it. Btw, the average viking was about 1,70 m (5″7). The average male samurai 1,60 to 1,65 (5″3 to 5″5), the female warriors (onna-bugeisha) even shorter.

Tigerseye wrote: »

The point is that Bosmer, especially male Bosmer (for some reason...?!) are a pretty diminuitive race.

Probably the women are a bit bigger/taller because, from the evolutional point of view, they have to be able to give birth? If they were too small it'd be dangerous for both mother and child.

Tigerseye wrote: »

My guess would be about 40cm, rather than 45, but that's just a stab in the dark.

If I change my calculations from 45 to 40 cm per chair, my Dunmer would only be 146 cm (4″9) tall, and the Altmer only 171 cm (5″7). That would differ a lot from what I could calculate from head size / body proportions, and it would generally be too tiny.

I think the chairs might look a bit small because of the proportions? They're rather broad, if you look how much space there is left and right from the legs (sorry I don't have a different picture ready at the moment, but it's the same with all chairs, they all seem to have the same measurements except for the height of the back).

feyii wrote: »

You could counter check even with the UESP height chart, if your altmer is actually 1.08 the size of your dunmer.

Unfortunately, I only have the size chart for Skyrim, and sizes were a bit different there (Dunmer, Imperials, Bretons and Khajiit were all the same size).

UntilValhalla13

I wish there was a universal height chart on the character creation screen...

feyii

Syldras wrote: »

Unfortunately, I only have the size chart for Skyrim, and sizes were a bit different there (Dunmer, Imperials, Bretons and Khajiit were all the same size).

That was also the case in TES3 and TES4, so I think it is legit as the standard height for those races throughout the Elder Scrolls series. Also add Bosmer females to the group you mentioned and exclude Breton and Khajiit females (they were a little shorter). Then you have Bosmer males, who are always the shortest height, and Orcs, Nord and Altmer as the taller races. I don't remember the order between Orcs and Nord, though.

Tigerseye

Syldras wrote: »

A female Breton is probably taller than 4″6. Actually, I think they're not so much shorter than the average Dunmer lady. It probably only looks that way because many player chars are made extremely tall. I have read a lot of times already that many many people try to make their chars as tall as possible.

Well, some do and some also make them as short as possible.

Certainly, people talk about making min height Bosmer, on here, all the time.

Short chars are often favoured for PVP, for example and/or just because people think they are cute looking.

But, I get your point about comparing your char with other, random height, chars not being an accurate way to estimate height.

Probably the women are a bit bigger/taller because, from the evolutional point of view, they have to be able to give birth? If they were too small it'd be dangerous for both mother and child.

Not if the babies are equally tiny and equally small headed.

It's about the proportion of the baby compared with the mother.

If that was the reason, all females would be bigger than the males of their race and yet, even before medical intervention they weren't (on average).

Many human mothers (in our world) can't successfully birth a child (especially a child with a large head) without medical intervention, anyway, but probably best not to get into all that here.

If I change my calculations from 45 to 40 cm per chair, my Dunmer would only be 146 cm (4″9) tall, and the Altmer only 171 cm (5″7). That would differ a lot from what I could calculate from head size / body proportions, and it would generally be too tiny.

Compared with what, though?

I don't think we should get too hung up on assumed/guessed chair measurements, either way.

The point is that it is extremely unlikely that the ESO chairs are the same height, in proportion to the human races in the game, as our modern day chairs are, compared with us.

...because, if they were, all Bosmer would be sitting there with their feet swinging in the air, even with their toes pointed (assuming they could point their toes!).

think the chairs might look a bit small because of the proportions? They're rather broad, if you look how much space there is left and right from the legs (sorry I don't have a different picture ready at the moment).

The width of some (not all!) of the chairs doesn't help them look proportionate, either, but it's clear that the seat heights are also just plain old short (compared with our modern day chairs), because they fit my female Bosmers.

Not that I mind, because I like that they do, but it means they are unlikely to be a reliable measure of height, that is the point.

Unless, perhaps, you assumed the average height of the human races first, then extrapolated the average height of Bosmer from that and then worked out how tall these chairs must be from that...

But, then we are back to assuming average ESO human height, from average real world human height.

So, back to square one, in other words.

Syldras

feyii wrote: »

That was also the case in TES3 and TES4, so I think it is legit as the standard height for those races throughout the Elder Scrolls series.

From what I remember, Bosmers were taller in Skyrim than in Morrowind and ESO, but I could be wrong because it's been a while since I last played Skyrim. Also, Altmer males were still the tallest an Bosmer males the shortest, but there generally wasn't such a huge height difference between the shortest and the tallest NPCs, from what I remember?

I've checked it now though. My Altmer is about 1,16 to 1,17 (depending on what measurements) the size of my Dunmer. So, not only 1,08.

Tigerseye wrote: »

I don't think we should get too hung up on assumed/guessed chair measurements, either way.

What's with body proportions and head size then?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

The only unit of length provide by the game is the range of attacks and effects. You could set out to meticulously measure the max range for, say, a ranged bow skill against a target dummy in some large enough open space in a house, and work from there if you wanted to.

seecodenotgames

I once found a bookshelf (Elsweyr style) that was the exact same height at my character. I then used the EHT addon to target the item and it showed the height of the bookshelf as being 2.6m or something like that. Which I though was extremely big for an average height imperial.

Syldras

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

The only unit of length provide by the game is the range of attacks and effects. You could set out to meticulously measure the max range for, say, a ranged bow skill against a target dummy in some large enough open space in a house, and work from there if you wanted to.

seecodenotgames wrote: »

I once found a bookshelf (Elsweyr style) that was the exact same height at my character. I then used the EHT addon to target the item and it showed the height of the bookshelf as being 2.6m or something like that. Which I though was extremely big for an average height imperial.

Yes. The problem is, these measurements seem so off-scale. Of course we could just accept that in TES the average human is 3 meters tall an elves are 4.5 meters (or 10 to 15 ft) Not sure if it helps, though.

How could we calculate more or less realistic sizes? Probably assigning the size of an average rl human to an average in-game human? But what would we choose as the standard? Today's average height of men varies from 182 to 159 cm, of women from 168 to 151 cm. Or should we use historical stats from the Middle Ages, where the average man in Europe was only 165 cm tall and the women 155 cm? And whom should we assign it to? Imperials? Bretons?

So, I think the average head size wasn't such a bad idea for measurements, because that doesn't really differ that much worldwide.

Generall, it's really difficult with the sizing in ESO, though, with cornflowers (I think it were cornflowers?) almost as big as your face

mikikatze

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

The only unit of length provide by the game is the range of attacks and effects. You could set out to meticulously measure the max range for, say, a ranged bow skill against a target dummy in some large enough open space in a house, and work from there if you wanted to.

Well, they did provide a measurement unit with the new housing tools... but that makes even wood elves seem very tall:

Altmer: 2,35m - 2,50m
Bosmer: 1,97m - 2,08m

Foxhearted

ooh glad someones made a thread about this.
I've been trying to find it myself, but as it was pointed out there sadly isn't a thing you can measure what their heights would be. I once compared my chars heights by using plates, lol.
Also, during char creation you can click the height slider 15 times, and I went that one click = 1 cm, but maybe 0,75 cm is more accurate? I can't really tell.
To me, the characters don't seem that short - just from my observation, I estimated the min height (male bosmer) around 1,54m and max height (Altmer) around 2m. Like I said, I estimated it from seeing only, I could be completely off
What do you think?

Syldras

Foxhearted wrote: »

To me, the characters don't seem that short - just from my observation, I estimated the min height (male bosmer) around 1,54m and max height (Altmer) around 2m. Like I said, I estimated it from seeing only, I could be completely off What do you think?

I'd think 1,54 m is too much as the minimum for a male Bosmer. There are men in Asia, who aren't that much taller (averages: Laos - 160 cm; Nepal, Cambodia, Philippines, Indonesia - 163 cm; India, Vietnam - 164 cm), so as an extra tiny fantasy race, I think Bosmers should be even shorter. I'll measure mine later today.

le_spy

measuing characters height with a chair or a skull is completely false, because the furniture and skull size would also depend on their race and enviroment, the proportions would stay the average skull height between people is also proportionaly different even on current earth, using ingame real unit measurements all of the races are overized and yes the altmer reaching around 2.5 meters is correct, you could also measure it with range effects, or ground abilities that have fixed radius, rather than chair which would be proportionally differently sized in this universe

Syldras

If you accept 2,5 m / 8″3 as the Altmer size, and use that scale, a Bosmer would be 2,08 m / 6″10. That's not exactly what is considered short on our planet. Of course it could be on Nirn (it's all a question of relations anyway), but our idea was to find a way to translate those measurements to plausible rl measurements.

Aendruu

Syldras wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

No clue, and doesn't really matter to me. I think there's a "height chart" somewhere in UESP's wiki.

Thanks for your reply! I only know the chart for Skyrim, but even that one refered only to the measurements in the editor, unfortunately, an Imperial being "1" tall, an Altmer "1.08", but with no hint how to translate it to cm or inches. Some of us who roleplay or write stories about the TES universe were wondering.

Unfortunately, according to the character stats for each game, it seems that even Bethesda hasn't been able to agree with itself:
Morrowind
Oblivion
Skyrim

The Skyrim Creation Kit relies on the unit, but even "this table aims to give an approximation, the numbers are much less precise then [sic] their significant digits may imply. "

1 unit = 1.428 cm = 0.5625"
2 units = 2.856 cm = 1.125"
4 units = 5.713 cm = 2.25"
8 units = 11.43 cm = 4.5"
16 units = 22.85 cm = 9"
32 units = 45.7 cm =18"
64 units = 91.41 cm = 3'
128 units = 1.828 m = 6'

"The conversions for feet given were used with the following: FT = Unit * 0.046875 ", therefore 1 foot (30,48 cm) = 0.046875 units, and 1.0 Height = 128 Units = 1.828m = 6' 0"

Obviously this is only relevant for Skyrim; heaven knows what the Morrowind and Oblivion calculations are!

Make of this what you will.

Syldras

Aendruu wrote: »

"The conversions for feet given were used with the following: FT = Unit * 0.046875 ", therefore 1 foot (30,48 cm) = 0.046875 units, and 1.0 Height = 128 Units = 1.828m = 6' 0"

Thanks for the information! That would make an Altmer 1,97 m (6'6), a female Bosmer 1,83 m (6'0) and a male Bosmer 1,79 m (5'10). That's... tall.

Aendruu

Syldras wrote: »

Thanks for the information! That would make an Altmer 1,97 m (6'6), a female Bosmer 1,83 m (6'0) and a male Bosmer 1,79 m (5'10). That's... tall.

Indeed! I tried to find the Morrowind scale instead, but extensive searching produced nothing.

le_spy

its obvious that the characters in this game have 'sized up' compared to what people like to believe, also the racial height differences in eso vs what you can see IRLdependant on country etc are actually much less pronounced to begin with if you'd compare

Radiance

Idk why it matters and I hope the lore doesn't get so extensively complicated that they feel the need to create their own unit of measurement just to sate this insane curiosity. High elves are the tallest, Wood Elves are the shortest and everyone else is in between, the end. Use your imagination to fill in the blanks, it literally does not matter. If we put as much thought into real life matters maybe the world wouldn't be in the state it's in.