Global achievements upgrade?

saremun

Hi everyone!

I have been thinking about this a lot lately and didn't think about writing a post until the Alliance change tokens had been released which changed my mind. I have seen this idea floating around but in different versions and it has been a long time since anyone wrote anything about it.

Today the achievement system is very rich and has been a content driving factor in the game in many ways however it is not shared across account or across all characters. It is not a problem for those who don’t focus on this aspect of the game or those who have a lot of time on their hands however for someone who does EVERY single achievement it can be a lot.

The idea is simple,an in-game upgrade that can be purchased via the crown store which causes the achievements on all characters to be account wide and linked, this is something which we have seen already such as the (Any Race,Any alliance) upgrade.

Pros

• Gives players more options.
• It pays for the development time spent on it.
• Removes the content barrier so a players can play any character and any role while progressing in their achievements in the game.
• It opens certain aspects of in-game content, today people find it very hard to find groups to do the hard dungeon/trial achievement to get skins/items/personalities/polymorphs, because groups are defined since people are forced to play certain roles in order to gain what i mentioned.
• It gives incentive to players to play with each other and participate in dungeons/trails even more which means shorter dungeon queues and more money for the game if the players stay longer.

Cons

• Some players don’t like more options.
• Some players want to repeat certain achievements which they find enjoyable.
• Some players may not afford the crown store fee.

My counter to that is:

• Players can ignore this extra option by not purchasing the upgrade from the crown store.
• Players can ignore the upgrade and not purchase it, just like they can ignore the (Any race, Any alliance token).
• Players can gift each other crown store items and pay with in-game gold just like it is happening right now, i myself gifted a friend the (Any race, any alliance token) when he started playing the game.

I love this game so much and have been playing it since release however i have been forced to play ONE character as main just because i want to do every single achievement in the game, some achievements take a lot of time and dedication to do, having the option to play another role or class would be game changing in a great way just like having the ability to switch your alliance today.
Thank you all for reading!

Athyrium93

I really like the idea, BUT I think the big issue is many zones would end up empty, if a zone didn't have gear worth grinding there would be little incentive for players that already have a maxed main to go to those zones, potentially leaving them empty of everything except new players and maybe some people farming resource nodes and that's an issue I don't know how to address.

saremun

Athyrium93 wrote: »

I really like the idea, BUT I think the big issue is many zones would end up empty, if a zone didn't have gear worth grinding there would be little incentive for players that already have a maxed main to go to those zones, potentially leaving them empty of everything except new players and maybe some people farming resource nodes and that's an issue I don't know how to address.

Not exactly because again the people who buy the tokens wouldn't do those achievements more than once otherwise they wouldn't buy the token, I have done everything in Auridon but i still go there to collect crafting mats, treasure maps, Antiquities or even farm overland gear for alts, but i don't want to do the achievements again on an alt

Taleof2Cities

saremun wrote: »

Athyrium93 wrote: »

I really like the idea, BUT I think the big issue is many zones would end up empty, if a zone didn't have gear worth grinding there would be little incentive for players that already have a maxed main to go to those zones, potentially leaving them empty of everything except new players and maybe some people farming resource nodes and that's an issue I don't know how to address.

Not exactly because again the people who buy the tokens wouldn't do those achievements more than once otherwise they wouldn't buy the token, I have done everything in Auridon but i still go there to collect crafting mats, treasure maps, Antiquities or even farm overland gear for alts, but i don't want to do the achievements again on an alt

I don't think you're fully appreciating the traffic loss with this idea, @saremun.

While you still go to specific zones to collect your crafting mats, overland gear, etc. ... you're still not going to that zone to collect achievements on alt characters. So, that's up to 17 characters on a player account. Multiply that by the approximate 2.5 million active players and now you get a pretty big number.

Not that your or my opinion is the final word on the issue. That would be ZOS. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be too keen on losing zone traffic. Especially after it was a focus on the recent Antiquities release.

On the bright side, there are game systems that are already account-wide. Most notably outfit styles, dyes, skins, polymorphs, costumes, and almost every collectible are all shared across characters.

saremun

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Athyrium93 wrote: »

I really like the idea, BUT I think the big issue is many zones would end up empty, if a zone didn't have gear worth grinding there would be little incentive for players that already have a maxed main to go to those zones, potentially leaving them empty of everything except new players and maybe some people farming resource nodes and that's an issue I don't know how to address.

Not exactly because again the people who buy the tokens wouldn't do those achievements more than once otherwise they wouldn't buy the token, I have done everything in Auridon but i still go there to collect crafting mats, treasure maps, Antiquities or even farm overland gear for alts, but i don't want to do the achievements again on an alt

I don't think you're fully appreciating the traffic loss with this idea, @saremun.

While you still go to specific zones to collect your crafting mats, overland gear, etc. ... you're still not going to that zone to collect achievements on alt characters. So, that's up to 17 characters on a player account. Multiply that by the approximate 2.5 million active players and now you get a pretty big number.

Not that your or my opinion is the final word on the issue. That would be ZOS. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be too keen on losing zone traffic. Especially after it was a focus on the recent Antiquities release.

On the bright side, there are game systems that are already account-wide. Most notably outfit styles, dyes, skins, polymorphs, costumes, and almost every collectible are all shared across characters.

Ok again, if people like to repeat the achievements on the 17 alts then none is stopping them they can simply ignore the token and farm their achievements until the end of times, i have yet to talk to anyone in game since release who wanted to redo the challenge achievements in dungeons/trials or even the Master Angler for fishing, hell most people would love to avoid collecting skyshards, books, guild skill lines on alts yet they have to, the option to buy those skill lines or skyshards is there but they choose to collect them again because it is cheaper.

The price would be another way to prevent this from being an issue in anyway possible even though i find no possible issue tbh, high price like 12k or more would be possible to gain in game but also hard to be easily obtained, that is just an estimation and not a real value, i leave that to ZOS of course.

redspecter23

I'm of the mind that account wide achievements opens up options rather than restrict them. No "main" means I can bring the best toon for the job instead of my main which may not be as helpful when running progression content.

I'd like to see something like this stay away from the crown store, but even if it is in the store, I'm not sure a token is the right way to do it. A simple account upgrade similar to any race, any alliance or imperial race would make more sense.

saremun

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm of the mind that account wide achievements opens up options rather than restrict them. No "main" means I can bring the best toon for the job instead of my main which may not be as helpful when running progression content.

I'd like to see something like this stay away from the crown store, but even if it is in the store, I'm not sure a token is the right way to do it. A simple account upgrade similar to any race, any alliance or imperial race would make more sense.

Actually the (Any alliance, any race) upgrade was the main inspiration for the idea, and i fully agree with you, i have been playing a night-blade since release so i would love to be able to change to another character to play the roles i like and the classes i like rather than being forced to play only one class and one character.

Taleof2Cities

saremun wrote: »

Actually the (Any alliance, any race) upgrade was the main inspiration for the idea, and i fully agree with you, i have been playing a night-blade since release so i would love to be able to change to another character to play the roles i like and the classes i like rather than being forced to play only one class and one character.

There is no written rule in the game mechanics, @saremun, that a player is forced to play only one character. That’s simply not true. Nor is there any rule that achievements are required ... nor are there any in-game rewards for achievement points.

As I mentioned above, you can play as many alt characters as you like ... up to 17 characters total on one account (in addition to your main). That’s a lot of ways to spread out and enjoy a different class and playstyle.

It’s not a secret to anyone that whenever a player chooses to buy an MMO title, there is an inherent achievement grind baked in ... before that player even clicks “play”.

Bottom Line: I don’t think ZOS has interest in catering to an optional feature that doesn’t affect the game’s main systems ... especially when it would reduce the foot traffic in zones.

redspecter23

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Actually the (Any alliance, any race) upgrade was the main inspiration for the idea, and i fully agree with you, i have been playing a night-blade since release so i would love to be able to change to another character to play the roles i like and the classes i like rather than being forced to play only one class and one character.

There is no written rule in the game mechanics, @saremun, that a player is forced to play only one character. That’s simply not true. Nor is there any rule that achievements are required ... nor are there any rewards for achievement points.

As I mentioned above, you can play as many alt characters as you like ... up to 17 characters total on one account (in addition to your main). That’s a lot of ways to spread out and enjoy a different class and playstyle.

It’s not a secret to anyone that whenever a player chooses to buy an MMO title, there is an inherent achievement grind baked in ... before that player even clicks “play”.

Fortunately, though, all content can be completed on one character ... just ask the folks who have 41k+ achievement points.

Bottom Line: I don’t think ZOS has interest in catering to an optional feature that doesn’t affect the game’s main systems ... especially when it would reduce the foot traffic in zones.

I think that like any proposed change, if enough players are interested in it, there may be interest at ZOS in implementing it at some point. It all comes down to whether it's worth the time to implement it for the gains. A while back, they implemented a change to allow us to reorder our characters on the log in screen. This serves no real functional purpose, but was implemented as a QOL change for players that like to order things. I found it an amazing change that put a bit of my OCD to rest and allow me to order my characters in a way I preferred.

A change to allow account wide achievements is something I'd compare to reordering characters. There is little to no functional difference, but for players that want everything set up in specific ways, it can most definitely affect their enjoyment of the game in a positive way. If players are saying they want account wide achievements, I would take that to mean that it would be a change that they would positively benefit from, even if there is no in game functional benefit. To take that a bit further, you could also say that cosmetics in general have no in game benefit, but suggesting they stop adding those would be foolish. Achievements fall into a similar category. Many players like to fill up those little blue bars. It gives them joy to do that and providing a way to do it on an account wide level could be considered beneficial to at least some portion of the player base.

saremun

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Actually the (Any alliance, any race) upgrade was the main inspiration for the idea, and i fully agree with you, i have been playing a night-blade since release so i would love to be able to change to another character to play the roles i like and the classes i like rather than being forced to play only one class and one character.

There is no written rule in the game mechanics, @saremun, that a player is forced to play only one character. That’s simply not true. Nor is there any rule that achievements are required ... nor are there any in-game rewards for achievement points.

As I mentioned above, you can play as many alt characters as you like ... up to 17 characters total on one account (in addition to your main). That’s a lot of ways to spread out and enjoy a different class and playstyle.

It’s not a secret to anyone that whenever a player chooses to buy an MMO title, there is an inherent achievement grind baked in ... before that player even clicks “play”.

Bottom Line: I don’t think ZOS has interest in catering to an optional feature that doesn’t affect the game’s main systems ... especially when it would reduce the foot traffic in zones.

That right there proves to me that you are not an achievement seeker like me, because if you were then you would have understood the difficulty of doing every single achievement in the game while also playing the 17 characters you keep mentioning, i would try to elaborate and explain to you why playing more than one character for an achievement seeker player is not an option but you wouldn't understand tbh.

Just take a look through every section in the achievement window and you may understand why. And again you keep mentioning the foot traffic in zones and i will explain YET AGAIN that it has nothing to do with what am suggesting here, but that brings us back to the fact that you are not an achievement seeker player, it is clearly not a focus or an interest for you.

saremun

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm of the mind that account wide achievements opens up options rather than restrict them. No "main" means I can bring the best toon for the job instead of my main which may not be as helpful when running progression content.

I'd like to see something like this stay away from the crown store, but even if it is in the store, I'm not sure a token is the right way to do it. A simple account upgrade similar to any race, any alliance or imperial race would make more sense.

I changed the terms used in my original post to upgrade, thought about it more and it seems that it can confuse people , thanks for the suggestion anyway!

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Hard disagree from me.

I love the fact that when I see a character with a hard achievement, I know they did it on that character, with that class. The race may have been different but aside from that, it's all there.

saremun

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Hard disagree from me.

I love the fact that when I see a character with a hard achievement, I know they did it on that character, with that class. The race may have been different but aside from that, it's all there.

You do know that people can buy carry runs where they are basically totally useless but they get the achievement done in that way let alone having friends who carry them through the content.

If you are good on one character then you are good on another, and you can EASILY ask the dude to know which class/roles he used to finish the achievement with, I have been playing two roles with my nightblade since release, Magblade and tank but i wouldn't have needed to switch roles if the achievement system was global, i would have played my dragonknight alt as tank whom i just use for writ crafting atm.

Hell, my guild carried me through Veteran Sunspire and got the achievement done just one hour 3 hours after coming back to the game after a long break and 30 min after buying the Elswyer DLC, does that make me good or the character/role good?, lol i discovered three days later with the help of combat metrics that my DPS was 15k at best in a raid where they require min 50k...

CMDR_Un1k0rn

saremun wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Hard disagree from me.

I love the fact that when I see a character with a hard achievement, I know they did it on that character, with that class. The race may have been different but aside from that, it's all there.

You do know that people can buy carry runs where they are basically totally useless but they get the achievement done in that way let alone having friends who carry them through the content.

If you are good on one character then you are good on another, and you can EASILY ask the dude to know which class/roles he used to finish the achievement with, I have been playing two roles with my nightblade since release, Magblade and tank but i wouldn't have needed to switch roles if the achievement system was global, i would have played my dragonknight alt as tank whom i just use for writ crafting atm.

Hell, my guild carried me through Veteran Sunspire and got the achievement done just one hour 3 hours after coming back to the game after a long break and 30 min after buying the Elswyer DLC, does that make me good or the character/role good?, lol i discovered three days later with the help of combat metrics that my DPS was 15k at best in a raid where they require min 50k...

Exactly, so let's not risk blurring this anymore.

saremun

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Hard disagree from me.

I love the fact that when I see a character with a hard achievement, I know they did it on that character, with that class. The race may have been different but aside from that, it's all there.

You do know that people can buy carry runs where they are basically totally useless but they get the achievement done in that way let alone having friends who carry them through the content.

If you are good on one character then you are good on another, and you can EASILY ask the dude to know which class/roles he used to finish the achievement with, I have been playing two roles with my nightblade since release, Magblade and tank but i wouldn't have needed to switch roles if the achievement system was global, i would have played my dragonknight alt as tank whom i just use for writ crafting atm.

Hell, my guild carried me through Veteran Sunspire and got the achievement done just one hour 3 hours after coming back to the game after a long break and 30 min after buying the Elswyer DLC, does that make me good or the character/role good?, lol i discovered three days later with the help of combat metrics that my DPS was 15k at best in a raid where they require min 50k...

Exactly, so let's not risk blurring this anymore.

Not blur it anymore? did you even read what i wrote?

Achieving certain milestone in game belongs to the player not the tool which you use to achieve it with, So if i play different roles such as tank, dps or healer to achieve a certain dungeon/trial challenge means that I deserved the achievement since i used different tools(characters/roles) to gain it, that means i used different skillset each time i played a different role, compare that to playing only one roles/class and being carried by better players which is the case atm.

So if a player has crafted 9 trait gear then he shouldn't use it on another character because the other character is not even a crafter, that is exactly your issue with the suggestion of global achievement system and it doesn't make any sense tbh...

I just can't see how you think this is an issue.

Nairinhe

I'd say let us look at the achievements across all characters (in the character selection screen, or as a small tooltip near achievement, or maybe a toggle in journal), but keep achievements themselves character-bound and linkable in chat only in such state as they have on current character

saremun

Nairinhe wrote: »

I'd say let us look at the achievements across all characters (in the character selection screen, or as a small tooltip near achievement, or maybe a toggle in journal), but keep achievements themselves character-bound and linkable in chat only in such state as they have on current character

But that is not helping tbh, the fact that it would be an upgrade which can be purchased or ignored by the player removes the "issue" which you mentioned, if you want your character achievements to be separated from each other then you don't need to do ANYTHING, it can't get any simpler than that, if you want to link them then you have to buy the upgrade, that right there is an extra option for you as a player, so i can't really see any issue to be honest with you.

I didn't think about writing anything in the forum because i thought that the people like me who do every single achievement in the game are only few, the surprise for me was that this is something which even those who don't care about achievements want, and it is simple because it exist in many aspect of the game atm, just like the skyshards or the guild skill lines, you can do the grind if you want or purchase them from the crown store giving you an extra option, i myself didn't purchase any of that because i have the time to do it myself but certain people don't.