Negative Free Publicity

WySoSirius

Nearly every twitch stream i have watched , mostly Pvp orientated ,and some Pve / Trial streams , there is a a theme between the streamers , which i wholeheartedly agree, and that is Elder Scrolls Online is terrible , this kinda of exposure is NOT selling your precious ESO and DLC , Zenimax , you might want to take notice and ACTUALLY do something about it , Twitch Screams volumes Globally tenfold more than your once a month or 2 with your Dev streams . Free Appreciated gifts wont save you from the negative exposure that you are getting , StreamTeam and general streamers all having the same reaction to this once awesome MMO , and the visual footage is proof enough that this game is sinking , i can only hope next patch is 95% focused on performance more than cosmetic DLC

Kaunas

100% agree. Just got back into the game and one day was amazing, the other was a lag fest.. started youtube but its costing too much energy to pretend that everythings fine.. feel me
Edit: im not saying ban streams.. im saying fix the game asap before it gets even more worse

Ratzkifal

What is the purpose of this thread? Getting streaming of this game banned?

You are making it sound like streaming itself is bad publicity when the actual bad publicity for the game is its own problems. Now think about what the money bag that heavily invested into ZOS will do if they hear about this? Threaten to pull their money out from them if they don't do something about this "free negative publicity".
So how can ZOS respond to this? Only two options present themselves. Fix the game or ban streaming. Fixing the game is a lot harder and inaction can result in them losing the investment, while banning streaming is relatively easy as they are very well within their rights to restrict the use of their copyrighted materials.

I get what you are trying to say, but please leave streaming out of this. This forum and all talks in public forums outside of ZOS control contribute just as much to this "free negative publicity".

Elsonso

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

zvavi

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

If only it was only PvP... But PvE is affected as well.

C0RTEX4

zvavi wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

If only it was only PvP... But PvE is affected as well.

As I have said always too if that was the case they would not have put pvp into the game...

WySoSirius

Ratzkifal wrote: »

What is the purpose of this thread? Getting streaming of this game banned?

You are making it sound like streaming itself is bad publicity when the actual bad publicity for the game is its own problems. Now think about what the money bag that heavily invested into ZOS will do if they hear about this? Threaten to pull their money out from them if they don't do something about this "free negative publicity".
So how can ZOS respond to this? Only two options present themselves. Fix the game or ban streaming. Fixing the game is a lot harder and inaction can result in them losing the investment, while banning streaming is relatively easy as they are very well within their rights to restrict the use of their copyrighted materials.

I get what you are trying to say, but please leave streaming out of this. This forum and all talks in public forums outside of ZOS control contribute just as much to this "free negative publicity".

No , i am not trying to BAN streams , i am only looking at it from a different angle , what if a new player wants to see what its like to play " Live " and 90% of streams arent painting a pretty picture , its not the streamers fault, its what they got to work with , i just think ZoS needs to take notice and start releasing something that the Streamers can Actually Freely sell to viewers , how else can a game compete with upcoming releases that may perform better , and are noticeable in Live streams , Twitch is the best Exposure ESO has to bring in customers , but with what we got live streaming , its turning people away , i am sorry if it came across as a Ban Streamers thread , it is FAR from that , i just feel the frustrations of every streamer i see , and i think this is goin to have a negative impact on ZoS tryin to sell their product

Elsonso

zvavi wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

If only it was only PvP... But PvE is affected as well.

It is the hallmark of PVP around here, not PVE.

I think the performance work they are doing will correct a lot of what happens in PVE. I think PVP is a lost cause. They can continue to work on it all they want, but it will never meet player expectations. I think it will meet PVE player expectations.

edges_endgame

C0RTEX4 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

If only it was only PvP... But PvE is affected as well.

As I have said always too if that was the case they would not have put pvp into the game...

PvP was meant to be endgame at launch. Not PvE.

Ratzkifal

WySoSirius wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

What is the purpose of this thread? Getting streaming of this game banned?

You are making it sound like streaming itself is bad publicity when the actual bad publicity for the game is its own problems. Now think about what the money bag that heavily invested into ZOS will do if they hear about this? Threaten to pull their money out from them if they don't do something about this "free negative publicity".
So how can ZOS respond to this? Only two options present themselves. Fix the game or ban streaming. Fixing the game is a lot harder and inaction can result in them losing the investment, while banning streaming is relatively easy as they are very well within their rights to restrict the use of their copyrighted materials.

I get what you are trying to say, but please leave streaming out of this. This forum and all talks in public forums outside of ZOS control contribute just as much to this "free negative publicity".

No , i am not trying to BAN streams , i am only looking at it from a different angle , what if a new player wants to see what its like to play " Live " and 90% of streams arent painting a pretty picture , its not the streamers fault, its what they got to work with , i just think ZoS needs to take notice and start releasing something that the Streamers can Actually Freely sell to viewers , how else can a game compete with upcoming releases that may perform better , and are noticeable in Live streams , Twitch is the best Exposure ESO has to bring in customers , but with what we got live streaming , its turning people away , i am sorry if it came across as a Ban Streamers thread , it is FAR from that , i just feel the frustrations of every streamer i see , and i think this is goin to have a negative impact on ZoS tryin to sell their product

I am sure that wasn't your intention, but I'd tread carefully with the wording on a subject like this. It's easy to draw the wrong conclusions from the picture you have painted and you can never underestimate the ability of people with a lot of money and little knowledge of the topic at hand to ask for some ridiculous measures being taken just so they can feel like their investment is doing well.

I do think that you are very right that there should be a more presentable side to ESO that streamers can take advantage of and show to the world, but I honestly can't really see what kind of content that would be. Do you have any ideas?
PvP has the advantage to always be fresh since it's player-created content, so in order for it to not get stale it would have to be some form of player created content too. It needs to have action yet it should also not be so reliant on performance or balance...
Anything comes to mind?

Kiralyn2000

I still don't understand why people watch streaming in the first place, let alone seem to think it's important. /oldmanyellsatcloud

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

I've always found it interesting that some PvPers take the PvP in mostly-PvE MMOs so seriously, considering that it's frequently a poorly-supported sideshow, isn't remotely balanced, usually depends on gear/etc advantage rather than "pvp skill", etc.

(or - you'd think, if these Serious PvPers were so Serious about PvP, that thay'd play a game built/designed/balanced for PvP, rather than the half-*** pvp taped to the side of otherwise-PvE MMOs.)

Elsonso

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I do think that you are very right that there should be a more presentable side to ESO that streamers can take advantage of and show to the world, but I honestly can't really see what kind of content that would be. Do you have any ideas?

Almost all of the ESO streams that I watch are focused on PVE. Quests. Trials. Dungeons. Other. There are actually more of them than I can reasonably follow and support.

I don't really watch, follow, or subscribe to Twitch streams that are PVP focused. They may have more viewers, but they are sort of boring.

AgaTheGreat

ESO is awesome. The performance is atrocious. It is so bad that even the most loyal players find it hard to talk positively about the game.

Today, for example official eso FB page in Poland asked what kind of armour everyone likes. To which I replied that I might be wearing the most powerful armour in the game but I'll still be unable to defeat the biggest enemies in the game. The bugs.

I don't have it in me to say anything good at this point.

idk

Actually, the game is great. ESO has great storytelling, though some stories are better than others. ESO also has great combat. The issue is performance and if I was the one responsible for this game I would be embarrassed.

Further, the premise that those streamer's comments are bad publicity goes against the actual trend we see with the game where the populations of both PC servers have been growing. Last year Zos had to increase player capacity of both servers to accommodate the player grown. Steam Charts, the only source of information on player trends, shows an increase in the number of players when comparing any month over the same month the year before with the exception of three months last fall. Those three months coincided with WoW's release of an update and numbers quickly corrected themselves demonstrating all those players prefer ESO over WoW.

While Zos really needs to get serious about fixing the performance issue OP is completely wrong that the game is in any danger. Zos did not give out the appreciation gift to try to save the game. It does not need saving.

fastolfv_ESO

50 people sitting around vvardenfell doing writs and logging off doesnt show the games population is healthy, hell the 3 bars of primetime pvp population and the folding of hundreds of trials guilds on the other hand say alot more. Zos can pull off numbers the first week or 2 after a dlc and maybe a month after an expansion but the declining numbers are obvious to those that regularly play, ZoS has had a bad rep for the lack of fixes and communication for a long time and its going to take alot of work for them to dig out of the hole they climbed into

Elsonso

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I still don't understand why people watch streaming in the first place, let alone seem to think it's important.

I tend to agree, particularly where it comes to PVP streams. I am not interested in watching some guy, and it is usually a guy, exercise his [snip] talents against other players.

I watch for more social reasons, often while I am playing ESO, since this whole pandemic thing is socially distancing.

My current favorite social PVE stream is Matygon. He might be doing dungeons, or a trial, or housing, or Antiquities, or whatever interests him at the time, and it is just a fun stream. No pressure. No drama. Just people hanging out who like ESO.

I do watch "technical" streams that do a lot to demonstrate game play, builds, etc. Xynode is a good streamer for that.

This is hardly an exclusive list, and I stop in an watch quite a few players just to see what they are doing.

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

50 people sitting around vvardenfell doing writs and logging off doesnt show the games population is healthy, hell the 3 bars of primetime pvp population and the folding of hundreds of trials guilds on the other hand say alot more. Zos can pull off numbers the first week or 2 after a dlc and maybe a month after an expansion but the declining numbers are obvious to those that regularly play

Uh. That is quite the stretch.

Dusk_Coven

Actually I commend ZOS for not attempting to control or censor streamers at all, whether they are on the Stream Team or not.
The current twitch drops promotion for is for all ESO streams, not just the Stream Team, and not just cherry-picked sycophants.

TineaCruris

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

That's not how ZOS advertises it.

Elsonso

TineaCruris wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

That's not how ZOS advertises it.

I refuse to be held accountable for how ZOS and Bethesda market their games.

BRCOURTN

Theres an extremely prominent streamer on twitch who has been playing ESO a whole bunch for a week or so. He's always talking positively about the game and he's grinding to cp 160 I think. He's bringing a bunch of people to the game right now, and its great inadvertent advertising for ZOS.

andreasv

BRCOURTN wrote: »

Theres an extremely prominent streamer on twitch who has been playing ESO a whole bunch for a week or so. He's always talking positively about the game and he's grinding to cp 160 I think. He's bringing a bunch of people to the game right now, and its great inadvertent advertising for ZOS.

I was surprised when I saw Summit play the game. Watched for a couple of hours and after not playing ESO for more than a year decided to give it another try as it looked fun. I've bought Greymoor now, am subbed again, and I'm quite enjoying the content.

GrumpyDuckling

idk wrote: »

OP is completely wrong that the game is in any danger. Zos did not give out the appreciation gift to try to save the game. It does not need saving.

No, you took the OP's quote out of context and mischaracterized the OP's argument. The OP clearly wrote, "Free Appreciated gifts wont save you from the negative exposure that you are getting."

WySoSirius

I am noticing there is this pvp vs pve in forums. But I look at it as with the description of skills. Game mechanics. Game play. UI. Literally you would expect it to work as intended. But with pvp and pve. Also I am a born pver who is still getting my toes wet in pvp. So I am not one to take sides. I am only reflecting with what I am seeing as a trend from streams and my own experiences in pve and pvp content. From that most of the negative feedback regarding performance of this great game I think is warranted. Considering how many months we get the same copy paste about performance fixes. I like many would defend this game as much as possible as I do love ESO but seriously who wants to spend time in something that is constantly broken. Or even buy something that is broken or not working as intended. Most of us would demand a refund or replacement right? I just hope zenimax take this as constructive criticism with a warning that they are being exposed in a way I wouldn't want to be exposed

idk

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP is completely wrong that the game is in any danger. Zos did not give out the appreciation gift to try to save the game. It does not need saving.

No, you took the OP's quote out of context and mischaracterized the OP's argument. The OP clearly wrote, "Free Appreciated gifts wont save you from the negative exposure that you are getting."

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP is completely wrong that the game is in any danger. Zos did not give out the appreciation gift to try to save the game. It does not need saving.

No, you took the OP's quote out of context and mischaracterized the OP's argument. The OP clearly wrote, "Free Appreciated gifts wont save you from the negative exposure that you are getting."

I suggest reading the entire statement in the original post of this thread. OP clearly states the game is shrinking to which I pointed out with actual real information that you edited out. So OP does in fact attempt to suggest the game is in danger which means my comments, when taken in accurate context, are completely correct.

It is also in line with the consensus of most of the replies in this thread.

Arunei

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

50 people sitting around vvardenfell doing writs and logging off doesnt show the games population is healthy, hell the 3 bars of primetime pvp population and the folding of hundreds of trials guilds on the other hand say alot more. Zos can pull off numbers the first week or 2 after a dlc and maybe a month after an expansion but the declining numbers are obvious to those that regularly play, ZoS has had a bad rep for the lack of fixes and communication for a long time and its going to take alot of work for them to dig out of the hole they climbed into

As much as I agree with the fact that ZOS should step up and communicate more as well as actually work on fixing the game more (not having high hopes for the next performance update with u27 given what we've got the last two updates), that first part there seems like one heck of a hyperbole. First of all, I highly doubt you're just idly standing by with 50 other characters visible on your screen who all just happen to log out at the same time after turning in writs. Even if a lot of people do log out after turning in writs, you have absolutely no idea of knowing how long they'd been playing before doing their writs, or whether they're logging onto other characters to do other stuff. You can't make a blanket statement of "I'm watching lots of people log out that must mean the game is dying" when you have zero knowledge of what those people were doing before turning in writs and what they might be planning on doing after logging out.

Overly exaggerated numbers and statements don't really do much to help back up a point or argument. If anything they weaken it.

GrumpyDuckling

idk wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP is completely wrong that the game is in any danger. Zos did not give out the appreciation gift to try to save the game. It does not need saving.

No, you took the OP's quote out of context and mischaracterized the OP's argument. The OP clearly wrote, "Free Appreciated gifts wont save you from the negative exposure that you are getting."

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP is completely wrong that the game is in any danger. Zos did not give out the appreciation gift to try to save the game. It does not need saving.

No, you took the OP's quote out of context and mischaracterized the OP's argument. The OP clearly wrote, "Free Appreciated gifts wont save you from the negative exposure that you are getting."

I suggest reading the entire statement in the original post of this thread. OP clearly states the game is shrinking to which I pointed out with actual real information that you edited out. So OP does in fact attempt to suggest the game is in danger which means my comments, when taken in accurate context, are completely correct.

It is also in line with the consensus of most of the replies in this thread.

I suggest you read the entire statement in the first post because you are wrong again. The OP clearly said and .."the visual footage is proof enough that this game is sinking..."

You apparently think it says "shrinking," and you went on in your post to try to argue about numbers of players. Again, you are not understanding what the OP's post is about and arguing against your own made up conclusions.

Dusk_Coven

WySoSirius wrote: »

I like many would defend this game as much as possible as I do love ESO but seriously who wants to spend time in something that is constantly broken. Or even buy something that is broken or not working as intended. Most of us would demand a refund or replacement right? I just hope zenimax take this as constructive criticism with a warning that they are being exposed in a way I wouldn't want to be exposed

The thing people forget is that a lot of players do not have any performance issues whatsoever that it's actually quite baffling.
Even during MYM when I was in Cyrodiil, with a guild group, in a campaign where we had to queue in from wait position 50+ or so. Zero issues once I got in.
I was in a group of around a dozen guildies riding toward a keep. A couple of us had looong flashes of load screens. The rest were fine.
Once we were fighting inside the keep, a couple of us complained about skills not firing off. The rest were fine.
All this time we are basically in the same area and in close proximity. And there were maybe two or three dozen players nearby as well, obviously not all of the same alliance.

So when you see people complaining about performance issues, realize that a lot of people also do NOT have issues when they play. Even when the persons right next to them might be having issues.
Obviously this doesn't help the person who is having issues, but realize that those people may in fact be in the minority and a lot of other people are happily doing their thing. Not just PvP or trials or dungeons but questing, housing, furnishings, fashion, even fishing.

Everywhere I've been In game, chat is basically never about performance issues. But on the forums it's non-stop complaints. How come?

And I say this when over a year ago I had issues. It seemed like I was the only one who got randomly disconnected upwards of 20 times a day, sometimes 10 times in the same hour. No one else had it. My ISP was baffled. ZOS customer service was completely useless as usual. This went on for months. Then suddenly it cleared up without anyone admitting they changed anything.

Lake

It's meaningless. And considering ESO's population has seen another recent boom makes your point about the small handful of mostly non-influential ESO Twitch streamers having massive influence demonstrably false.

Every top World of Warcraft streamer (including 50k andy Asmongold) heavily dogpiles on WoW and Blizzard (both Retail & Classic) constantly and so do their viewers.

Also, ESO, like most MMOs not called WoW, is completely irrelevant on Twitch (even though it's higher than big ones like FFXIV) and has its numbers artifically inflated by website embeds for the Top 2 ESO streamers & the streamer that owns another popular Wiki page. Those "popular" ESO-only streamers have very little influence on Twitch as their viewership is from embeds and not real viewers.

If you want to talk about Twitch streamers with actual influence, with actual PR power - streamer Shroud (who started over a year ago) recently got his fellow famous friend Summit into the game. Summit has already streamed 55 hours so far with a watch time of 761,682 hours - extremely positive free PR.

And guess what - they're super positive (way more than I expected) considering they both hate story / quests & are of the FPS variety.

Bethesda can't usually afford this category of streamer (they have previously paid smaller streams like DansGaming / Yogscast), as they command multi-million-dollar advertising contracts just to play a game. Jenna Marbles' video from 3 months ago was also a money-can't-buy piece of influential positive PR.

SmukkeHeks

Tamriel is stunning. The carefulness the world was build with, the love that got poured into every single small detail, the diversity throughout the land. The storylines are interesting. Music crawling up the spine. Elder Scrolls Online hit just the right spot. I’ve been here since beta, and I’ll keep on saying that. Tamriel is stunning, neatly created and with such thought for the experience.

That’s not the issue. The issue has been a very long process from small, minor, almost no matter like bugs, to huge fights between players over desyncs/cheats/exploits, patch upon patch with all over the place changes, no communication on how that came to be, are they creating to fit something that we actually needs or are they creating towards an established, by other than us that has the practical knowledge, goal? It’s not something that came from patch 21 to 27 - it’s been in the cauldron simmering for years.
Data logs, huge outcry.
Racial passives, total disrespect to the races.
Skill reforms, no one knows why, what the changes are aiming at. It’s just all over the place. With no kind of communication. Besides the once in a while created post by a developer, that disappears as fast as a nightblade in the dark. PUF - gone.

But when the newest content, harrowstorms, have lost their grinders in less than a month (month and a half?), there’s something wrong. And that bad mouth-to-ear, that no moderation can edit, silence or ban, are an issue.

But I’ll keep saying it. Elder Scrolls are bar none. None reached even to the ankles of that world.

Tamriel is stunning. Deeply-in love-kind-of. Stunning.

jircris11

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I still don't understand why people watch streaming in the first place, let alone seem to think it's important. /oldmanyellsatcloud

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

I've always found it interesting that some PvPers take the PvP in mostly-PvE MMOs so seriously, considering that it's frequently a poorly-supported sideshow, isn't remotely balanced, usually depends on gear/etc advantage rather than "pvp skill", etc.

(or - you'd think, if these Serious PvPers were so Serious about PvP, that thay'd play a game built/designed/balanced for PvP, rather than the half-*** pvp taped to the side of otherwise-PvE MMOs.)

While you are correct, let me remind you we live in an era of snowflake gamers. Something kills them its OP or the person is hacking. Eso spoke a lot about pvp, and for a while it worked. But then the servers started getting pinged to all hell by add ons that these "hard core" players need. Hell some addons where borderline cheating, but they don't think 50,000 addons pinging a server every second won't lag it. No it has to be zos. Here is a challenge, turn off your addons then go to pvp, I did and I noticed my fps and pr was higher then with them enabled. Not saying zos can't work on the server but take some responsibility.

Then you have those players who think everything should be pvp, if you look at full pvp mmos not many if ANY last long. Who wants a game where some neckbeard can gank low lvls outside of a town. Heck bdo a game nade with pvp in mind hardly has pvp in the open.

TineaCruris

jircris11 wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I still don't understand why people watch streaming in the first place, let alone seem to think it's important. /oldmanyellsatcloud

Elsonso wrote: »

I say again, as I have said for years, this is not a serious PVP game, no matter how much anyone, including ZOS, would like to think otherwise. PVP in this game is a "hobby/casual" activity, played "as-is" or not at all.

I've always found it interesting that some PvPers take the PvP in mostly-PvE MMOs so seriously, considering that it's frequently a poorly-supported sideshow, isn't remotely balanced, usually depends on gear/etc advantage rather than "pvp skill", etc.

(or - you'd think, if these Serious PvPers were so Serious about PvP, that thay'd play a game built/designed/balanced for PvP, rather than the half-*** pvp taped to the side of otherwise-PvE MMOs.)

While you are correct, let me remind you we live in an era of snowflake gamers. Something kills them its OP or the person is hacking. Eso spoke a lot about pvp, and for a while it worked. But then the servers started getting pinged to all hell by add ons that these "hard core" players need. Hell some addons where borderline cheating, but they don't think 50,000 addons pinging a server every second won't lag it. No it has to be zos. Here is a challenge, turn off your addons then go to pvp, I did and I noticed my fps and pr was higher then with them enabled. Not saying zos can't work on the server but take some responsibility.

Then you have those players who think everything should be pvp, if you look at full pvp mmos not many if ANY last long. Who wants a game where some neckbeard can gank low lvls outside of a town. Heck bdo a game nade with pvp in mind hardly has pvp in the open.

No, turning off your add-ons will not help, unless it's MM or something specific that is known to cause issues. I think all of us have turned off most if not all our add ons for PvP toons already, before we come here and post.