An Idea I Had: How About a Target Dummy that Attacks You?

LukosCreyden

We've all heard the complaints against target dummy [snip] and how they do little in regards to teaching people how to play, or how good someone's dps would be in an actual trial.
We also know that a lot of game balancing is focused around target dummy performance.
So, how about introducing a target dummy that fights back? It could be a Dwemer Centurion that throws out random AoE's that force you to reposition yourself mid rotation, with the penalty of getting hit being huge damage or a debuff that reduces your damage by a large amount.

[edited for inappropriate content]

zvavi

Sounds like vMA.

colossalvoids

Don't we have wb's, dungeon and trial bosses already? Point of dummies is to compare, test or practice most of the times, struggle to see if anyone trying to learn to play by it.

UntilValhalla13

We used to have that. It was called Bloodspawn/Slimecraw and a stopwatch.

Vietfox

LukosCreyden wrote: »

So, how about introducing a target dummy that fights back?

Go to Cyro, EP side.

LukosCreyden

zvavi wrote: »

Sounds like vMA.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Don't we have wb's, dungeon and trial bosses already? Point of dummies is to compare, test or practice most of the times, struggle to see if anyone trying to learn to play by it.

Problem with that is you have to go out of your way to get to these things and on console, you do not get to see your dps and uptime.
The main problem is that too many people swear by target dummies, which are completely static and are in no way a good measuring stick for performance in a trial. People put too much emphasis on target dummy performance, so I think it would be good to make one that is more relevant and accurate to actual gameplay.

Besides, I think it would be a good way to get some practice in for new players looking to improve.

zvavi

LukosCreyden wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Sounds like vMA.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Don't we have wb's, dungeon and trial bosses already? Point of dummies is to compare, test or practice most of the times, struggle to see if anyone trying to learn to play by it.

Problem with that is you have to go out of your way to get to these things and on console, you do not get to see your dps and uptime.

So what you actually need is in-game combat metrics right?

Thing is, dummy is for practicing the muscle memory, and seeing your damage numbers "at peak performance".
While actually running content will give you the experience to preform it while doing mechanics.

Adding dummy that attacks back wouldn't give enough variety of different mechanics to gather experience anyway. I think that even with such introduced dummy it will be much better to go solo different world bosses with a stopwatch.

andreasv

No no, you can't have that. Wow has such things and you can't implement that in ESO. NEVER!

colossalvoids

LukosCreyden wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Sounds like vMA.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Don't we have wb's, dungeon and trial bosses already? Point of dummies is to compare, test or practice most of the times, struggle to see if anyone trying to learn to play by it.

Problem with that is you have to go out of your way to get to these things and on console, you do not get to see your dps and uptime.
The main problem is that too many people swear by target dummies, which are completely static and are in no way a good measuring stick for performance in a trial. People put too much emphasis on target dummy performance, so I think it would be good to make one that is more relevant and accurate to actual gameplay.

Besides, I think it would be a good way to get some practice in for new players looking to improve.

I don't see a problem with playing the game different ways tbh. Also dummies that fight back wouldn't be a measuring stick for trial/dungeon performance as only measuring you would be able to make is by doing the actual concrete content using esologs, and just guess on console as zos refuse to build something in for character progression. Dummy experience (even fighting ones like bloodspawn for example) is totally different from every different encounter in any different trial, every time you kind of learn anew so only way to actually progress is by doing said content. Dummy works into memory so you can do dps without much thinking and having your attention towards mechanics and teamwork.

Grianasteri

On balance, Im thinking nah. Because the purpose of the dummy is to test the maximum output you are capable of and to improve this over time with practice and refinement. The idea is that this max output and muscle memory learned rotation can be more consistently applied in content and therefore a dps parse is an indication of how one may perform in content, from a purely dps output perspective.

That said, one theme that has bobbled along for years is the fact there is no "target dummy" test for healers or tanks, only dps & rotations can be tested.

I have no idea how that would work... healz per second? hps lol.

I did see someone set up the arena house that can have 3 damage procs activated in the arena, and they also placed plants that attack and do damage all around it. It was a great bit of fun.

UntilValhalla13

Grianasteri wrote: »

On balance, Im thinking nah. Because the purpose of the dummy is to test the maximum output you are capable of and to improve this over time with practice and refinement. The idea is that this max output and muscle memory learned rotation can be more consistently applied in content and therefore a dps parse is an indication of how one may perform in content, from a purely dps output perspective.

That said, one theme that has bobbled along for years is the fact there is no "target dummy" test for healers or tanks, only dps & rotations can be tested.

I have no idea how that would work... healz per second? hps lol.

I did see someone set up the arena house that can have 3 damage procs activated in the arena, and they also placed plants that attack and do damage all around it. It was a great bit of fun.

Vet St. Olms is a decent tanking dummy. I'd go in there solo and practice when I first started tanking. Try to keep all of your debuffs up and stay alive for as long as you can. XD

zvavi

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

On balance, Im thinking nah. Because the purpose of the dummy is to test the maximum output you are capable of and to improve this over time with practice and refinement. The idea is that this max output and muscle memory learned rotation can be more consistently applied in content and therefore a dps parse is an indication of how one may perform in content, from a purely dps output perspective.

That said, one theme that has bobbled along for years is the fact there is no "target dummy" test for healers or tanks, only dps & rotations can be tested.

I have no idea how that would work... healz per second? hps lol.

I did see someone set up the arena house that can have 3 damage procs activated in the arena, and they also placed plants that attack and do damage all around it. It was a great bit of fun.

Vet St. Olms is a decent tanking dummy. I'd go in there solo and practice when I first started tanking. Try to keep all of your debuffs up and stay alive for as long as you can. XD

Definitely, you can even bring another friend tank there with you so u can practice together in turns & not be that bored and then wipe when first mini spawns xd.

EvilAutoTech

Instead of a dummy, how about an assistant who will randomly spawn and attack you?

LightningWitch

Vietfox wrote: »

Go to Cyro, EP side.

I'm AD, and this made me laugh out loud.

tomofhyrule

Grianasteri wrote: »

That said, one theme that has bobbled along for years is the fact there is no "target dummy" test for healers or tanks, only dps & rotations can be tested.

This is something I'd like. There are some things that I'd like practice with without having to try to convince my guild to run a dungeon *again* just to practice on a specific boss.

A good tanking one would be a room where nothing's really attacking or the dummy just does periodic heavies, but adds keep spawning in and you need to chain them in and root them down while holding a taunt on the boss. Bonus points if they have something like the Iron Atro where it throws out synergies so you can keep resources up. I know that it's tough to chain things in in a boss fight when things are crazy and you have to keep an eye on the boss while spinning around to look for adds to grab in.

For healers, it could just be a dummy that's constantly losing health and you need to keep it up, sort of like the Tharayya/Quintus thing in Malatar.

Dusk_Coven

How would you get out of your apartment?

Pretty sure you can't port in combat status or use a door if you've been recently hit.
This idea needs more thought into it. Especially if it's going to attack you at range.

gatekeeper13

Nah, attacking dummies would forbid some from boasting about >100k dps....

Grianasteri

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

Instead of a dummy, how about an assistant who will randomly spawn and attack you?

NOT NOW, KATO!

Please tell me others get this reference... or am I too old...

Grandchamp1989

Recently hit 30k on the dummy as a 400+cp and thought to myself it might be a good idea to compare in vet dungeons.

One of my group was 3 dps group me, other dps and fake healer (dps) + tank. they were all 810cp.

You could tell we were all competing for high combat metric numbers and yet I beat them almost every fight.
I'm pretty sure they all parsed more than me but that means nothing when you're KO'd or stand in stupid.

Guyle

I think a dummy that moves positions, or you can only hit from range, or spawns little mini dummies that shield the main dummy and need to be destroyed before you can get back to the main dummy would be more useful. Or some variation on these things that make the dummy a little more practical.

PrimusNephilim

LukosCreyden wrote: »

How About a Target Dummy that Attacks You

hmmm.....sounds like my x-wife

Tandor

Get this and the next thing will be people wanting it to drop loot and give xp. "Play the entire game without having to leave your house" will be the new mantra.