PVP class for a WoW migrant

Jellybean

I'm looking for a class for small scale PVP (battlegrounds, small group cyrodiil) that is most similar to my main class in WoW. I used to main a Discipline Priest and loved the class in PVP for the following reasons, and I'm looking for an ESO class that is most similar (the list is ranked in order of importance):

1. Supporting my team (in non-healing ways). This includes debuffing/controlling the enemy so my team have an easier time getting a kill, or dispelling my team to keep them mobile and doing what they need to do
2. Quickly toggle between defensive and offensive mode. This includes supporting my team, but as soon as they see an opening for a kill I can instantly go offensive and contribute damage to secure the kill
3. The ability to shield my team through damage rather than healing damage that theyve already taken. Although good healing/offhealing is also nice
4. Purging/dispelling useful buffs from the enemy player

So in general I'm more of a support player, but not in the traditional healer sense. I dont want to stand there and spam heals. To me, support is about helping your team effectively secure kills through buffing/debuffing/purging/CC and being able to fluidly move between offensive and defensive at an instant to guarantee kills (so #1 and #2)

I'm currently considering Templar, Warden and Necro, but open to other class suggestions too. I'm not concerned about meta, or what classes are currently over/underperforming. I'm more interested in finding a class with a toolkit that allows me to play like above

Which ESO class sounds most similar to the way I like to play Discipline Priest?

dasrite

magden cuz brings a lot to solo and team players

EtTuBrutus

1. Any class can do that
2. Needs to be a class with an execute. Templar or sorc .
3. No classes really do that. Your best bet is body block/ blocking tanking. Dk with talons is fun
4. No classes do that, try utilizing debuffs. Maybe magden

paganslyer

magicka tamplar with ice staff (wall of elemental) for roots and slow. rattlecage set allow to slot more skills due to the Permanent major sorcery buff....then u have space for more stuns like Aurora Javelin or Volcanic Rune
and back bar just slot restoration staff ..then u have access to good buffs for ur group and from the ice staff u have nice debuff like elemental drain .
so i recommend for this a magicka tamplar with rattlecage set(5 on body) and Robes of Transmutation set (back bar with resto) the ice staff front bar can be a lot of things for tankiness just go Blessing of the Potentates (ice staff front bar)
and 2 Pieces of some monster set like ....lord warden or Swarm Mother or almost anything

mrwizardguy

You can play a templar like a paladin. I played WoW since 05’ and am having a blast.

exeeter702

Magplar withbstage 2 vamp.

You can be a disc priest WITH dispersion!

West93

I don't recommend magplar if you like playing solo a lot, you will have a lot harder time.

Pvp in this game is a lot more solo oriented, battlegrounds are solo queue for example, this is not wow arena.

Magsorc is safe choice for being good offensive support in group play (negate, I think it's closest thing to purge in ESO) and also good playing solo or small scale so you can support and hold your own very well.

Magsorcs has a lot of offensive utility (best ranged execute, unblockable stun, negate and list can go on).

Magplar, magden will play more like traditional healer in group setting.

exeeter702

Honestly, people here like to pretend that wow is sone childs play mmo in regards to its combat system compared to the "mature" and "skill focused" action combat of eso. The reality is that they are frankly not that dissimilar when you break it down and it really just becomes manual targeting vs reticle / smart auto targeting.

I mention this to you because regarding healing, in wow you have to manage specific health bars and make judgement calls on what and when to purge / cleanse and who to prioritize healing, especially on disc where there is a lot of micro management with atonement stacks, pw:s etc etc.

On that front you wont get it healing in eso. Nearly all healing is automated in regards to target selection. Powerful burst heals are autom automatically applied so long as you are facing someone with low health, the game will decide who gets the heal based on health values. Aoe or multi target healing are generally pbaoe or ground targeted aoe. Cleansing in particular is much less involved. In terms of skills, you have the universal skill purge that is pbaoe or templar cleansing ritual to name a few. With the templar, all you sre doing is dropping the ritual and allies inside of it can activate a synergy to cleanse negative effects which has a synergy cooldown. The templar cleaned themselves with every cast however. Which brings me to my next point.

There is no CD use considerations in eso as the only thing that a controls ability use is the 1 gcd and whether or not you have the resource to cast the skill. There often isnt scenarios where you have to make judgement calls depending on your CDs and when to use them for big effects. This dynamic only exists in eso with ultimates, in essence, ultimates are the equivalent to wows big cd abilities, only minimized and arguably less interesting.

First and foremost, I would ask you, what is higher in priorty to you with choosing a class? Is it functionality or thematics?

Thematically templar fills the role of holy magic uses protector, it skirts close to paladin and priest more than the other classes in eso.

Ifunctionality, it's a harder thing to determine in eso, because classes are only a part of the equation to what a build is able to achieve performance wise. Purge is an aoe cleanse skill that everyone can use. The restoration staff skill line is a weapon that anyone can equip and comes with very potent healing tools.

I still say that templar would be your best bet, but it is closer to a holy paladin than a disc priest. Mag sorcs have the ability to shield allies with a psuedo like pw:s, couple that with the healing ward /ward ally skill from the resto staff and you kind of have a disc priest flavor.

Honestly, classes in eso are much more broad, compared to the hyper focused classes in wow. Classes in eso are thematic representations of mmo archetypes, that are fleshed out with skill lines that are available to everyone, be it weapon choice or guild abilities, and items sets etc etc

mav1234

Jellybean wrote: »

I'm looking for a class for small scale PVP (battlegrounds, small group cyrodiil) that is most similar to my main class in WoW. I used to main a Discipline Priest and loved the class in PVP for the following reasons, and I'm looking for an ESO class that is most similar (the list is ranked in order of importance):

1. Supporting my team (in non-healing ways). This includes debuffing/controlling the enemy so my team have an easier time getting a kill, or dispelling my team to keep them mobile and doing what they need to do
2. Quickly toggle between defensive and offensive mode. This includes supporting my team, but as soon as they see an opening for a kill I can instantly go offensive and contribute damage to secure the kill
3. The ability to shield my team through damage rather than healing damage that theyve already taken. Although good healing/offhealing is also nice
4. Purging/dispelling useful buffs from the enemy player

So in general I'm more of a support player, but not in the traditional healer sense. I dont want to stand there and spam heals. To me, support is about helping your team effectively secure kills through buffing/debuffing/purging/CC and being able to fluidly move between offensive and defensive at an instant to guarantee kills (so #1 and #2)

I'm currently considering Templar, Warden and Necro, but open to other class suggestions too. I'm not concerned about meta, or what classes are currently over/underperforming. I'm more interested in finding a class with a toolkit that allows me to play like above

Which ESO class sounds most similar to the way I like to play Discipline Priest?

Hi Jellybean, welcome to ESO. I came over from WoW a few years ago, so perhaps can offer some perspective.

All 3 of the classes you list have excellent support abilities, potential for good damage, etc.

Personally I think that magicka warden fits what you describe best if you want more support/debuffing, but Templar fits it best if you want to be able to be very potent offensively/take advantage of a kill window... But, I will go through strengths of each. You may also want to consider Magicka Sorcerer (mentioned at the end).

Buffs and Debuffs: All three offer potent buffs and debuffs and support options. For instance, Templars have the best/cheapest dispel (but it requires your allies to interact with it), a single target knockback/stun (useful in small group play, less useful in big groups), passive spell damage increase to the group (does not stack if other templars are applying it), extremely good resource return to the group through a Synergy, and an Ultimate ability that allows allies to Synergize it to stun and do massive damage to enemies. Wardens can access Major Defile (think mortal strike in WoW) through an AoE ground effect, reduce their enemies spell resistance by a considerable amount (debuff is called Major Breach), and grant their allies more max health when healing them (but this does not stack if multiple wardens are around - buff called Minor Toughness), very strong roots, and an Ultimate ability that grants the strongest defensive buff in the game to themselves and their allies, while snaring enemies and doing damage to them around them (great for swapping to push on offense). Necromancers can apply Major Vulnerability through the use of an ultimate, making their enemies take massive additional damage, and can spec into an AoE Stun/Fear that is very useful for area denial. They can also have a great group dispel, and can be built tankier than other classes.

Offensive power: Templars are (this patch - they are getting a nerf next patch, so this could change) the strongest of the three in offensive power, but because they do not have strong heal over time effects, it can be difficult for a templar forced on the defensive to swap quickly back to offensive. However, of those 3 you list they are the only one with an execute, and it is quite a potent ability, and fits well with your idea of taking an opening to finish an opponent. Wardens and Necromancers both are (imo) tankier when built for some offensive ability too, and can swap to damage dealing easier due to HoTs, but whether they are as effective or not at it depends on build. Magicka Necromancer is the weakest of the three in offensive power I think, unless they are going for "bombing" enemy groups.

Shielding Allies vs Healing them: Generally speaking there are no great pre-emptive shields for group members the way Disc Priests play in wow. Restoration Staff - a great tool for many healers - has an extremely strong shield (Base ability is called Steadfast Ward), but it is based on missing health. Everyone has access to an Ultimate ability in the Alliance War Support Line that grants a massive shield to the group. So in terms of shielding, there is no direct comparison between disc priest in wow and an ESO class. Note that sorcerer has very strong self shields, and all characters wearing light armor have access to a shield ability, and other shields exist in various skill lines, but they are generally self-only.

Purging: There is no removing of an enemies buffs in the game, but Sorcerer (which can also be a strong support option - and possibly stronger at healing then switching to an offensive role out of those you name, actually) can apply a large AoE silence on the ground that can also negate active negative effects. Every class can wear a set that will remove damaging effects on the ground (Earthgore). In terms of friendly debuff removal, Templar has the easiest access to the cheapest group dispel. Necro and Warden have easy access to a self dispel, and any class can access and expensive-but-good group dispel.

Templar is definitely the closest thematically to a WOW priest. Warden is more thematically similar to a restoration druid. Necromancer... has no direct comparison, haha.

As an additional note, magicka sorcerer is very potent at moving from defensive to offensive due to delayed burst damage, very strong self-shielding and an incredibly strong group heal through the Twilight Patriarch pet. They also have a ranged execute. But as groups get bigger, I think the other 3 classes you mention become better and better support options.

If you are playing ESO on PC/NA and would like any help getting started, including free low level crafting gear (it costs me virtually nothing to make it), hit me up @mav1234 in game (this offer goes for anyone else new to PC/NA and wanting some help getting started )

Jellybean

Thanks for the input everyone!

exeeter702 wrote: »

There is no CD use considerations in eso as the only thing that a controls ability use is the 1 gcd and whether or not you have the resource to cast the skill. There often isnt scenarios where you have to make judgement calls depending on your CDs and when to use them for big effects.

I should mention that when I talk about PVP, I'm coming from the perspective of high level (gladiator) 3v3 arena in WoW, as thats what I played most often and I enjoy that level of intensity and decision making. In WoW arena, your choice of even a single GCD can be enough to cause a win or a loss. Is there a class like that in ESO, where the decision of what to cast with each GCD is highly consequential?

I guess another way of saying that is I dont really enjoy "spammy" classes where you only utilize a small subset of your toolkit. For example, Ive been trying out some templar and I get the feeling that >50% of your casts will be puncturing sweeps (although I might be playing it wrong). So I like having diversity in the skills I have to use (offensively and defensively), and having to choose the correct skill for a situation, rather than always just defaulting the same skill for all/most situations

mav1234 wrote: »

Buffs and Debuffs: All three offer potent buffs and debuffs and support options. For instance...

After reading your buff/debuff breakdown, I realize that what I would enjoy the most is having a class that has a wide selection of buffs/debuffs to choose from. I guess thats related to my point above about having a variety of tools to cover different situations. Is there a class that has all of the buffs/debuffs you mentioned? Or one class in particular that has the largest access to a variety of buffs/debuffs?

mav1234 wrote: »

As an additional note, magicka sorcerer is very potent at moving from defensive to offensive due to delayed burst damage, very strong self-shielding and an incredibly strong group heal through the Twilight Patriarch pet

I've been trying out some magsorc and I have to say it is very fluid in switching between offense/defense! One thing I dislike is that the burst seems to revolve around crystal frags, which is a random proc. So I always find myself in situations where, although my burst is strong, I'm never really in control of when that burst can happen. Feels really bad to have to constantly fish for a crystal frags proc On the flipside, the burst of classes like Warden (deep fissure combo) and Templar (purifying light/sweeps combo) can generally be started whenever you want. I havent tried the other classes, so not sure what theyre like in this respect

Am I playing sorc wrong? Or is the timing of the magsorc burst window generally out of your control? In terms of picking a class, I think I would like to eliminate as much random proc type effects as possible.

mav1234

Jellybean wrote: »

Am I playing sorc wrong? Or is the timing of the magsorc burst window generally out of your control? In terms of picking a class, I think I would like to eliminate as much random proc type effects as possible.

You aren't playing sorc wrong, but curse, along with the delayed execute, makes the sorc burst combo more than just frags-dependent, especially in a group.

exeeter702

Jellybean wrote: »

Thanks for the input everyone!

exeeter702 wrote: »

There is no CD use considerations in eso as the only thing that a controls ability use is the 1 gcd and whether or not you have the resource to cast the skill. There often isnt scenarios where you have to make judgement calls depending on your CDs and when to use them for big effects.

I should mention that when I talk about PVP, I'm coming from the perspective of high level (gladiator) 3v3 arena in WoW, as thats what I played most often and I enjoy that level of intensity and decision making. In WoW arena, your choice of even a single GCD can be enough to cause a win or a loss. Is there a class like that in ESO, where the decision of what to cast with each GCD is highly consequential?

I guess another way of saying that is I dont really enjoy "spammy" classes where you only utilize a small subset of your toolkit. For example, Ive been trying out some templar and I get the feeling that >50% of your casts will be puncturing sweeps (although I might be playing it wrong). So I like having diversity in the skills I have to use (offensively and defensively), and having to choose the correct skill for a situation, rather than always just defaulting the same skill for all/most situations

I as well come from mainly wow arena play, granted it's been many moons, glad in s2, s3 and pretty high rated throughput the other expansions up until the end of mop.

So to be more specific, and I will just be straight forward here, comparatively, eso does err on the side of spammy all things considered. I dont mean that as a jab against eso (pun intended) but generally speaking, builds contain 10 active skills and 2 ultimates as I'm sure you know. The reason for bringing this up is that there is honestly not alot of breadth when it comes to action bar variety. A build in ESO is a few things.

Primary damage dealing "spammable"
Which is essentially the main pressure tool that is used between buff/debuff refreshes and other delayed damage skills that you would use to set up lethals.

One hard CC skill
This goes without saying. In pvp, unless you are in a hyper organized group and you know CC immunity is going to be up almost always, most independent builds in pvp generally need to slot one hard CC whether it's a fear, hard stun or knockdown. Since there are no trinkets in this game, there is unfortunately not a very interesting interplay between choosing when to stun and when to break a CC. If you dont have the stamina to break free, you are generally dead, so often times pvp in small scale boils down to attrition for whoever runs out of enough of their primary resource to where they are unable to afford a defensive spell or able to break a stun.

Setup skills. Mostly the abiities that compliment a build and enable them in some way, whether its crystal frags or purifying light or executes, sometimes both. These are just an additional tool that helps you set up kills.

Outside of that, most builds will need to slot various skills to cover all the mandatory buffs. Many skills provide these buffs alongside movement speed, snare removal etc etc or other forms of utility which help flesh out the builds role.

In terms of GCD importance, I would posit there is less foresight decision making for big setups in eso compared to wow. The impact of 1 gcd in this game is not nearly as critical because most abilities outside of ultimates are tuned in a way that if a player wanted to, they could throw out siad skill every GCD, so its power budget needs to be within reason. There are two design principles in eso that combat this however..

First, is ability price. If a skill is deemed very impactful, generally zos will price it much higher so that using it frequently runs the risk of depleting your resource pool. Things like psijic order skill lines large aoe hard stun, it's very potent for a non ult CC, so the balance is it is fairly expensive as to discourage spamming it.

Second, is delayed or proc mechanics. Other impactful skills like wardens shalks, pack a substantial punch and is quite affordable on resource cost. This is balanced via the ability being telegraphed and its damage component coming out after a duration of time has passed resulting the warden being able to smack people with it every 3 gcds. If they spam the ability, it just gets reset and the blast never comes out. And proc mechanics like sorcs frags as you mentioned have an rng. Think of that like old school wind fury or ice lance procs. nightblades strongest non ult nuke requires skill activation and 5 light attacks which results in 5 gcds but benefits from be able to store it and use it when you need without worry of expiration.

This is how the GCD is balanced along side ability potency. Most healers might not feel spammy per say, but there will be less decision making in terms of action bar mid combat choice then you will find in wow. Mostly buff refreshing, making sure you keep your aoe healing in the right spot and popping your burst heal when need be while facing in the direction of a weak ally. Most healers generally carry some form of lethal, as a disc player I'm sure you can appreciate the worth of a healer that is able assist in pressuring an opponent's life bar. But when doing that, you will be spamming a single damage skill.

The critical decision making and counter play moments come when you blow your ultimate. This gives opponents the information they need. Templar just blew remembrance? dont waste resources on him during the channel, and them pounce him once it expires. Things like that.

mav1234

Jellybean wrote: »

I guess another way of saying that is I dont really enjoy "spammy" classes where you only utilize a small subset of your toolkit. For example, Ive been trying out some templar and I get the feeling that >50% of your casts will be puncturing sweeps (although I might be playing it wrong). So I like having diversity in the skills I have to use (offensively and defensively), and having to choose the correct skill for a situation, rather than always just defaulting the same skill for all/most situations

I would say that compared to e.g. WoW, every ESO class feels a b it more spammy, because you generally have fewer different offensive abilities to pick from due to limited bar space. That said, some classes are surely more spammy than others, and Templar is one that does feel quite spammy, precisely because their spammable is so strong. But everyone uses their spammable for pressure.

RE: most diverse buffs/debuffs, that is probably the Warden, but a lot of classes have access to different buffs and one thing you might want to consider is heading over to eso-skillbook and reading about each classes abilities, assuming you now have a general idea of how the game plays at a basic level That'll help you figure out all of what is available.

Luckylancer

You cant do what you want in eso. There is no classes, sets and skills for that. But Fengrush were using a supportive + disabling stamina sorcerer build. He was rooting, slowing enemies and buffing his team. But there is no shielding.

Aeternum113

I know this is arguable but from personal experience playing 14 years of WoW pvp myself, I have to warn you if you are used to the WoW pvp then chances are you will get loads of frustration at ESO's pvp, it's mostly trash (come at me now ESO fanboys that never played any other well coded/designed MMO in your lives). I'll leave you to find out about it through your on experience. I hope I'm wrong and good luck!

exeeter702

Aeternum113 wrote: »

I know this is arguable but from personal experience playing 14 years of WoW pvp myself, I have to warn you if you are used to the WoW pvp then chances are you will get loads of frustration at ESO's pvp, it's mostly trash (come at me now ESO fanboys that never played any other well coded/designed MMO in your lives). I'll leave you to find out about it through your on experience. I hope I'm wrong and good luck!

You know, confrontation aside, many people automatically assume positions like the one you take here are fundamentally wrong. Often you see people say things like eso combat is superior as a rule because its "action based" and requires more response times and physical skill or similar other foolish opinions. They consider any game where targeting is determined by manual selection via tab and where passive application of basic white attacks is built in, as a training wheels type of combat system and much less involved.

The reality is that couldnt be farther from the truth. When you have 3 times the amount of actions available to you, CD use considerations among many other things, there is a very real mental thought process where moment to moment decision making carries much more weight.

Now this is all setting aside performance and balance issues which is a whole other discussion.

Eso has qualities in its combat system but most that place it above any other mmo that has also done pvp well sighting thr aforementioned reasons, 9 times out of 10 dont actually have experience playing those mmos st the end game in pvp.

Aeternum113

exeeter702 wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

I know this is arguable but from personal experience playing 14 years of WoW pvp myself, I have to warn you if you are used to the WoW pvp then chances are you will get loads of frustration at ESO's pvp, it's mostly trash (come at me now ESO fanboys that never played any other well coded/designed MMO in your lives). I'll leave you to find out about it through your on experience. I hope I'm wrong and good luck!

You know, confrontation aside, many people automatically assume positions like the one you take here are fundamentally wrong. Often you see people say things like eso combat is superior as a rule because its "action based" and requires more response times and physical skill or similar other foolish opinions. They consider any game where targeting is determined by manual selection via tab and where passive application of basic white attacks is built in, as a training wheels type of combat system and much less involved.

The reality is that couldnt be farther from the truth. When you have 3 times the amount of actions available to you, CD use considerations among many other things, there is a very real mental thought process where moment to moment decision making carries much more weight.

Now this is all setting aside performance and balance issues which is a whole other discussion.

Eso has qualities in its combat system but most that place it above any other mmo that has also done pvp well sighting thr aforementioned reasons, 9 times out of 10 dont actually have experience playing those mmos st the end game in pvp.

Yeah, as I said it's arguable and much down to personal opinion and I didn't really want to go down to any specifics on why I find WoW pvp to be superior even if it's tab target (not that I consider ESO to be true action combat like say TERA or BDO for example). It would need a very long post to go into details but much of it would come down to really poor server performance and non existent class balance and poor itemization design or philosophy with proc sets and the noCP current one shot meta with (again down to personal preference) the horrible TTK. Then again WoW pvp is far from perfect these days due to adding mechanics on the itemisation that shifted the game towards a gear > skill design philosophy too, that said ESO is just in my opinion a much poorer experience from a pvp standpoint, seriously the list of flaws would be extensive and as you say if people think this game with it's "action combat" takes more skill... Anyway I'm not here to bash on this game's flaws but really just an heads up to the OP on how shocking and frustrating his experience might turn out to be. I think ESO can be a better experience for players that don't have the higher standards that come with having played other more polished MMO's.

pauld1_ESO

Prepare to be disappointed. The best thing you can do for support is revealing bombers and siege shields. Everyone else can take care of themselves. If you're looking for the holy trinity of MMORPG pvp you won't find it here.

pauld1_ESO

Aeternum113 wrote: »

I know this is arguable but from personal experience playing 14 years of WoW pvp myself, I have to warn you if you are used to the WoW pvp then chances are you will get loads of frustration at ESO's pvp, it's mostly trash (come at me now ESO fanboys that never played any other well coded/designed MMO in your lives). I'll leave you to find out about it through your on experience. I hope I'm wrong and good luck!

This

mav1234

Aeternum113 wrote: »

I think ESO can be a better experience for players that don't have the higher standards that come with having played other more polished MMO's.

I think it ultimately comes down to what players actually want out of their PvP. While I enjoyed my glad pushes in WoW (not so much my grand marshal grind in vanilla :P), ultimately the game is more restrictive and the nature of arenas, IMO, amplify and exacerbate design choices & class balance. But I do miss them often, and I miss the polish that the WoW dev team put into PvP.

I don't think that either WoW or ESO is necessarily more skill-based, as an earlier poster said. I think the combat systems are too different to make a direct comparison like that. These days I prefer ESO's combat and build variety. I prefer the reactive nature of combat in terms of dodge and block rather than cooldowns.

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Prepare to be disappointed. The best thing you can do for support is revealing bombers and siege shields. Everyone else can take care of themselves. If you're looking for the holy trinity of MMORPG pvp you won't find it here.

eh? healers are key components of most small man groups and turn the tide frequently...