Please stop nerfing Warden

XiokroDarc

Wardens nowadays are basically outmatch is all fields because they have better alternatives, magden is sad excuse for dps, and now youre removing a green balance synergy from the green balance skill tree. Like come on give warden a break every update I see all these cool changes for the other classes, and then warden is like "Removed Green Balance Synergy Proc from green balance skill line" cause ya know wardens were basically only good at tanking and healing so removing stuff that provides nice buffs is too much now.

TL;DR Please stop nerfing warden, it's already a mediocre class, youre gonna turn it into the worst.

GusTheWizard

Healing Seed: The synergy from this ability and its morphs no longer count as a Green Balance skill, as synergies are not meant to be enhanced by their respective skill line’s passives; they are activated by allies and not the caster themselves.

The synergy wasn’t removed, it just can’t proc minor toughness or nature’s gift.

XiokroDarc

Incursion wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Over the years ever since Warden was released, the class on average gets more nerfs then buffs. And Warden is indeed a mediocre class compared to every other class in the game.

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Healing Seed: The synergy from this ability and its morphs no longer count as a Green Balance skill, as synergies are not meant to be enhanced by their respective skill line’s passives; they are activated by allies and not the caster themselves.

The synergy wasn’t removed, it just can’t proc minor toughness or nature’s gift.

I meant they removed the passives bonus from proc. But my point still stands, Warden is already pretty much eh compared to every class.

MasterSpatula

Sorc says hi.

amm7sb14_ESO

Somebody tell my Warden tank that the class is mediocre, cuz he apparently didn't get the memo.

LuxLunae

"warden is outmached"

*scrolls

Magden World Record 20 mins vMA

InaMoonlight

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Somebody tell my Warden tank that the class is mediocre, cuz he apparently didn't get the memo.

I'd say, as a warden, that as this point warden requires as much skill to play well, as the poor nightblades

Can be done, but it's definitely not ez-mode...

Sylvermynx

I don't have any problem with my wardens (and I have a LOT of them). That synergy isn't anything I've ever needed to use. My wardens manage to keep themselves alive just fine while killing however many of whatever mobs are on offer.

Nope. I do NOT do group content, so no point in pointing out that I haven't a clue there.

Everest_Lionheart

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I don't have any problem with my wardens (and I have a LOT of them). That synergy isn't anything I've ever needed to use. My wardens manage to keep themselves alive just fine while killing however many of whatever mobs are on offer.

Nope. I do NOT do group content, so no point in pointing out that I haven't a clue there.

Warden is the solo champ, except it’s not because I can solo easier on my Templar and DK, but warden is the most fun to play.

It holds up in groups, not a superstar, middle of the road mostly but built for survivability and mobility. Stamwarden anyway.

Apparently magden is a superstar now after years of being a meme. Anyway nerf or no it doesn’t change anything for me because I don’t run that skill.

Sylvermynx

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I don't have any problem with my wardens (and I have a LOT of them). That synergy isn't anything I've ever needed to use. My wardens manage to keep themselves alive just fine while killing however many of whatever mobs are on offer.

Nope. I do NOT do group content, so no point in pointing out that I haven't a clue there.

Warden is the solo champ, except it’s not because I can solo easier on my Templar and DK, but warden is the most fun to play.

It holds up in groups, not a superstar, middle of the road mostly but built for survivability and mobility. Stamwarden anyway.

Apparently magden is a superstar now after years of being a meme. Anyway nerf or no it doesn’t change anything for me because I don’t run that skill.

I don't find magden fun at all. The only thing I would want changed about warden would be that the bear can actually TANK (like in WoW - yeah sue me.... I'm asking for something like WoW had.... Oh. And RIFT too.... *SIGH*)

Elsonso

Personally, I think that magicka Wardens are best for solo content. Nothing in this patch to make that worse.

Katahdin

nightblade also says "hi"

Vaoh

Well Wardens are:
... the best Healers.
... good Tanks.
... Good Mag DPS.
And they’re good for solo stuff.

There is one thing that Warden is “missing” atm which is PvE viability as an ice mage, and arguably the Vvardenfell theme ought to be ditched.

Warden is a strong class in Greymoor.

Kadoin

XiokroDarc wrote: »

Incursion wrote: »

I think(hope) hes trolling

Over the years ever since Warden was released, the class on average gets more nerfs then buffs. And Warden is indeed a mediocre class compared to every other class in the game.

Yet it's still strong, what exactly does that tell you?

XiokroDarc

Vaoh wrote: »

Well Wardens are:
... the best Healers.
... good Tanks.
... Good Mag DPS.
And they’re good for solo stuff.

There is one thing that Warden is “missing” atm which is PvE viability as an ice mage, and arguably the Vvardenfell theme ought to be ditched.

Warden is a strong class in Greymoor.

I wouldnt say wardens are best healers (theyre the only effective stam based heal), they are good tanks but can be easily replaced by a dk, and stam dps outmatches mag dps by quite a bit imo. And Im not saying you.

Kadoin wrote: »

Yet it's still strong, what exactly does that tell you?

Strong in what sense, what I'm talking about is max performance. Yes Warden CAN do great, but requires more skill than the other class counterparts, and only nerfing it will only increase the skill gap to the point in which your making the game harder than it needs to be. And like said Warden is mainly solo based, and doesn't work the best in group

Karmanorway

Wardens are too strong in PvP.
Whatever nerfs it gets is well deserved imo, i know this because i waste my time fighting them daily, and I also play one sometimes, probably one of the easiest 1vsX classes in the game.
stamden/stamcro/magsorc =
Top 3 1vsX classes

Silver_Strider

OMG a synergy that wasn't really a huge deal anyways has been nerfed.
Big deal. I'm still salty from when they removed the damage from Arctic Blast. THAT was a nerf to cry over.

Runefang

In this patch Magden is the top PvE dps overall. Great single target, top level AoE. Next patch without BfB they'll be middle tier again but by no way will they be a "sad excuse for dps", they just won't be able to compete with Magblades.

Stamden on the other hand....terrible still.

Kadoin

XiokroDarc wrote: »

Strong in what sense, what I'm talking about is max performance. Yes Warden CAN do great, but requires more skill than the other class counterparts, and only nerfing it will only increase the skill gap to the point in which your making the game harder than it needs to be. And like said Warden is mainly solo based, and doesn't work the best in group

Really? The skill argument?

Warden literally has it all, and you claim it takes more skill than "the other classes?" Really...?

bearbelly

Vaoh wrote: »

...arguably the Vvardenfell theme ought to be ditched.

Not that I disagree, butcha cain't spell 'Vvardenfell' without 'vvarden.'

Tigerseye

They always seem to do this to Warden/Hunter/Ranger type classes, in every MMO I have ever played.

Seems to be because they:

a) Never play the class themselves.
b) Favour more magicky kinds of classes (or, alternatively, heavy armour melee). I know you can be a Magden here, but the class is still widely thought of as a lesser class by these magick-obsessed people. There were whole dialogues about how Hunters were stupid, in WoW, for example and other players, routinely, called us "Huntards".
c) Like having a prey class.

Please note: This is a general observation about this type of class in various MMOs.

It is not intended to be a specific comment about Warden, in ESO; especially as I don't PVP here.

Ruder

Pointless nerf that no one will notice anyway

jm42

Vaoh wrote: »

Well Wardens are:
... the best Healers.

wat

Lysette

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I don't have any problem with my wardens (and I have a LOT of them). That synergy isn't anything I've ever needed to use. My wardens manage to keep themselves alive just fine while killing however many of whatever mobs are on offer.

Nope. I do NOT do group content, so no point in pointing out that I haven't a clue there.

As you are playing solo as well, I just wonder if you make use of the green balance skill line at all. I found that I have no real use for this skill line being on my own, especially not with magden, because I'm using annulment from the light armor skill line to protect my magden and this works well enough for solo content. I have not yet a min/max warden though, it is well balanced to use either staff or weapons (well, mainly because I'm still learning all the weapon types).

Otherwise my wardens do well, with or without the bear - I'm not always summoning him.

Lysette

Tigerseye wrote: »

They always seem to do this to Warden/Hunter/Ranger type classes, in every MMO I have ever played.

Seems to be because they:

a) Never play the class themselves.
b) Favour more magicky kinds of classes (or, alternatively, heavy armour melee). I know you can be a Magden here, but the class is still widely thought of as a lesser class by these magick-obsessed people. There were whole dialogues about how Hunters were stupid, in WoW, for example and other players, routinely, called us "Huntards".
c) Like having a prey class.

Please note: This is a general observation about this type of class in various MMOs.

It is not intended to be a specific comment about Warden, in ESO; especially as I don't PVP here.

Yeah, same goes for bow users in many games - even in ESO there was a time when they were considered just back bar suitable.

Everest_Lionheart

Lysette wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I don't have any problem with my wardens (and I have a LOT of them). That synergy isn't anything I've ever needed to use. My wardens manage to keep themselves alive just fine while killing however many of whatever mobs are on offer.

Nope. I do NOT do group content, so no point in pointing out that I haven't a clue there.

As you are playing solo as well, I just wonder if you make use of the green balance skill line at all. I found that I have no real use for this skill line being on my own, especially not with magden, because I'm using annulment from the light armor skill line to protect my magden and this works well enough for solo content. I have not yet a min/max warden though, it is well balanced to use either staff or weapons (well, mainly because I'm still learning all the weapon types).

Otherwise my wardens do well, with or without the bear - I'm not always summoning him.

I use two skills from it when I play solo on my Stamwarden. Green lotus for the heal over time plus the major savagery. And also enchanted growth for the burst heal when I need it. I chose the magicka morph for the burst heal because it gives my stamina pool a rest when I need to heal and during long drawn out fights I will always have enough magicka in the pool to cast it 3 times in a row, which some mechanics you need that ability. This helps massively on things like dragon fights as a melee player because you have to stand in range of the dragon dots that can kill you in 2-3 ticks. That magicka burst heal allows you to heal right through it.

That’s one of the parts people miss about warden when they see it as the inferior class. You can also grab your shields from the winters embrace line from your magicka pool as well. That’s the secret to survival as a Stamwarden. You have to know which skills to pick and it’s always a trade between survivability and DPS.

The harder part is getting a solid execute in there, but that going to come more from your weapon line. The class has some skills that are pretty much required if you want to reach decent DPS in this game. I don’t play magicka but for stamina everyone should have bull netch, green lotus, sub assault and growing swarm in their bars. Trap beast is also highly recommended. The bear ultimate is pretty much necessary as well, so that takes care of half your requisite skills plus both alts. You’ll need a spamable that’s either birds or weapon skill taking you down to 4 spots left. If you are running bow backbar than endless hail is also needed. 3 skills left. Solo play you want that burst heal and maybe a shield of your choice which leaves you with 1 real flex spot. And I usually choose bird of prey for the 8% damage bonus though sometimes having a ranged spamable is preferred in that slot like cutting dive.

Now as I have played more I have relied on shields less and less to survive which allows me a nice single target dot from soul consuming trap in the shield spot. That’s a massive boost to damage and also a “free” skill for stamina in that it uses magicka to cast. As a result I run a lot more tri stat food for the larger magicka pool.

Now I run DW also and have experimented with a few different morphs to drop my burst heal like bloodthirst and blood craze on the DW skill lines, which are fantastic by the way in PvP especially for those players with shields that steal your own health. Combine this with Spriggans with dual life steal enchants and you’ll essentially trade health for health is quite funny actually. Those gimmicks work for the most part in PvE as well but I still prefer raw damage from Briarheart which also returns health with my burst heals for dungeons, WBs and maelstrom arena.

That’s the Stamwarden package though, it will never be top tier DPS, but movement is superior plus mitigation and self heals are above average. It’s not for everyone though because it requires a lot of movement and fast reflexes and decision making at times just to survive certain encounters. It’s built for survival even when min/maxing. Overall the most fun I’ve had on a class so far.

ESO_Nightingale

Vaoh wrote: »

Well Wardens are:
... the best Healers.
... good Tanks.
... Good Mag DPS.
And they’re good for solo stuff.

There is one thing that Warden is “missing” atm which is PvE viability as an ice mage, and arguably the Vvardenfell theme ought to be ditched.

Warden is a strong class in Greymoor.

it's lacking interesting class skills other than fissure, since every other skill is just a copy pasted version of another skill. it's really good right now because it's mostly weak class skills have been heavily supplemented by several raw damage buffs.

C0RTEX4

Bro I don't know what version of the game you play but warden is a mashup of buffs and debuffs, you have everything on that single class...

Lysette

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I don't have any problem with my wardens (and I have a LOT of them). That synergy isn't anything I've ever needed to use. My wardens manage to keep themselves alive just fine while killing however many of whatever mobs are on offer.

Nope. I do NOT do group content, so no point in pointing out that I haven't a clue there.

As you are playing solo as well, I just wonder if you make use of the green balance skill line at all. I found that I have no real use for this skill line being on my own, especially not with magden, because I'm using annulment from the light armor skill line to protect my magden and this works well enough for solo content. I have not yet a min/max warden though, it is well balanced to use either staff or weapons (well, mainly because I'm still learning all the weapon types).

Otherwise my wardens do well, with or without the bear - I'm not always summoning him.

I use two skills from it when I play solo on my Stamwarden. Green lotus for the heal over time plus the major savagery. And also enchanted growth for the burst heal when I need it. I chose the magicka morph for the burst heal because it gives my stamina pool a rest when I need to heal and during long drawn out fights I will always have enough magicka in the pool to cast it 3 times in a row, which some mechanics you need that ability. This helps massively on things like dragon fights as a melee player because you have to stand in range of the dragon dots that can kill you in 2-3 ticks. That magicka burst heal allows you to heal right through it.

That’s one of the parts people miss about warden when they see it as the inferior class. You can also grab your shields from the winters embrace line from your magicka pool as well. That’s the secret to survival as a Stamwarden. You have to know which skills to pick and it’s always a trade between survivability and DPS.

The harder part is getting a solid execute in there, but that going to come more from your weapon line. The class has some skills that are pretty much required if you want to reach decent DPS in this game. I don’t play magicka but for stamina everyone should have bull netch, green lotus, sub assault and growing swarm in their bars. Trap beast is also highly recommended. The bear ultimate is pretty much necessary as well, so that takes care of half your requisite skills plus both alts. You’ll need a spamable that’s either birds or weapon skill taking you down to 4 spots left. If you are running bow backbar than endless hail is also needed. 3 skills left. Solo play you want that burst heal and maybe a shield of your choice which leaves you with 1 real flex spot. And I usually choose bird of prey for the 8% damage bonus though sometimes having a ranged spamable is preferred in that slot like cutting dive.

Now as I have played more I have relied on shields less and less to survive which allows me a nice single target dot from soul consuming trap in the shield spot. That’s a massive boost to damage and also a “free” skill for stamina in that it uses magicka to cast. As a result I run a lot more tri stat food for the larger magicka pool.

Now I run DW also and have experimented with a few different morphs to drop my burst heal like bloodthirst and blood craze on the DW skill lines, which are fantastic by the way in PvP especially for those players with shields that steal your own health. Combine this with Spriggans with dual life steal enchants and you’ll essentially trade health for health is quite funny actually. Those gimmicks work for the most part in PvE as well but I still prefer raw damage from Briarheart which also returns health with my burst heals for dungeons, WBs and maelstrom arena.

That’s the Stamwarden package though, it will never be top tier DPS, but movement is superior plus mitigation and self heals are above average. It’s not for everyone though because it requires a lot of movement and fast reflexes and decision making at times just to survive certain encounters. It’s built for survival even when min/maxing. Overall the most fun I’ve had on a class so far.

Thanks for this detailed information about your approach. My approach is somewhat similar but as well quite different, because I have a different goal in the game and different conditions connection-wise. My characters are currently between level 25 and 30 and they are meant to get to level 50 within 4 years - means 5-6 levels gain per year (I plan for another 4 years of playing ESO). Furthermore group content or any of the champion system nor pvp is of any interest to me - so I basically have just to deal with normal solo content. Due to high ping quick reactions are most of the time out of question as well.

So based on this, I started my characters on the stamina side and they are slowly shifting to the magicka side, so they are currently hybrids with a 2:1, 1:1 or 1:2 relation between magicka and stamina .- typical resources are something like 24k/21k/20k with regeneration around 1.5k each - and I'm mixing destruction staff with 2h on warden characters, mostly wearing standard blue gear - no special sets. My weapons are enchanted with health absorption most of the time.

My bars have either Annulment and a frost ability or 2 frost abilities, cutting dive as spammable, netch or consuming trap, and the 5th slot is a weapon ability - plus eternal guardian as ultimate. This is for the learning phase of all weapon types. Like I said I'm not in a hurry to gain levels quickly, so I'm not that often fighting at all - I focus more on exploration distributed over 14 characters that all of my characters gain levels very slowly - like I said, 5-6 levels gain each per year is my goal.

Even it is just normal content I do die once in a while, because I have a hard time to escape the red with my high ping - normally I have to take the damage that is why I try to protect my warden, without having to put points into health. I'm probably a really bad player, but that is none of my worries, I role play pretty average guys who basically got into this mess, tending to ignore most of it and just doing their thing. Ah yes, mundus stone is currently steed with all of them.

I have as well not that many skill points, because I'm not using add-ons and have to find skyshards on my very own - not using any source of information about them other than the ingame hints in the region guides.

AmoralOne

Its fine though. They'd never nerf Warden, or Necro into the ground. Thats where the money comes from.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

XiokroDarc wrote: »

Wardens nowadays are basically outmatch is all fields because they have better alternatives, magden is sad excuse for dps, and now youre removing a green balance synergy from the green balance skill tree. Like come on give warden a break every update I see all these cool changes for the other classes, and then warden is like "Removed Green Balance Synergy Proc from green balance skill line" cause ya know wardens were basically only good at tanking and healing so removing stuff that provides nice buffs is too much now.

TL;DR Please stop nerfing warden, it's already a mediocre class, youre gonna turn it into the worst.

Healing Seed change is logical. You expect X class to benefit from a synergy activation of a passive Y class has.

Find me a class skill from the other classes that allows such thing.
There is no other class having an ability passing a skill passive to others.

Is so crazy to demand this staying in game, is similar to Templars demanding that anyone activating Blazing Spear synergy to benefit from my Burning Light passive.