pts: Impenetrable: Reduced the Critical Resistance granted to 127, down from 172.

Wing

Impenetrable: Reduced the Critical Resistance granted to 127, down from 172.

so how we feeling about this.

they seem really mad at that trait, thats two patches in a row now of nerfs.

stybbe17b16_ESO

I'm guessing they're looking at statistics and see that it is still the most popular trait and only reason for this is because people have not been arsed to change their gear from the time it was best in slot for everyone. In my opinion its a bad trait now when you get free 1500 crit resist and it being nullified by people running around with malacath.

Wing

stybbe17b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm guessing they're looking at statistics and see that it is still the most popular trait and only reason for this is because people have not been arsed to change their gear from the time it was best in slot for everyone. In my opinion its a bad trait now when you get free 1500 crit resist and it being nullified by people running around with malacath.

i dont think as many people are running around with malacath (in CP) as much as is claimed.

but if you look at the defensive options for traits, impen is clearly the best unless your specifically going for dodge rolling that in fact:

Well-Fitted: Increased the cost reduction granted to 6%, up from 5%.

got buffed.

nirnhoned also got the nerf:

Nirnhoned: Decreased the Armor granted to 253, down from 301.

i found that strange as its ONLY used on light armor to begin with and then ONLY in very rare instances, probably a nerf as part of some "standards" benchmark and nothing to do in fact with the actual impact of the trait. as now, its a dead trait.

ecru

I said like 3 years ago that the impen trait was a bad idea in general because if a trait is so good that everyone is using it on nearly every piece of gear, it may as well not exist or be passive. Impen only being on gear was always bad for pvp overall both because of this and because of how it locked newer players out of being competitive due to how much of a requirement the trait was. This seems like common sense stuff to me so I'm surprised it took them this long to make this change.

Wing

ecru wrote: »

I said like 3 years ago that the impen trait was a bad idea in general because if a trait is so good that everyone is using it on nearly every piece of gear, it may as well not exist or be passive. Impen only being on gear was always bad for pvp overall both because of this and because of how it locked newer players out of being competitive due to how much of a requirement the trait was. This seems like common sense stuff to me so I'm surprised it took them this long to make this change.

would not be so bad if crit damage stacking was not so effective and easy. even full impen at around 3500 crit resist only negates the base 50% damage increase of a crit.

thats before CP bonuses, mundus, sets, passives, etc.

most people run around with at least 80% crit damage in CP as a base.

this is just going to bring back a burst meta as people are lol crit for 10k+ damage easy

Zekka

Unneeded, especially in no CP BGs where the time to kill is already very low.

likecats

Wing wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I said like 3 years ago that the impen trait was a bad idea in general because if a trait is so good that everyone is using it on nearly every piece of gear, it may as well not exist or be passive. Impen only being on gear was always bad for pvp overall both because of this and because of how it locked newer players out of being competitive due to how much of a requirement the trait was. This seems like common sense stuff to me so I'm surprised it took them this long to make this change.

would not be so bad if crit damage stacking was not so effective and easy. even full impen at around 3500 crit resist only negates the base 50% damage increase of a crit.

thats before CP bonuses, mundus, sets, passives, etc.

most people run around with at least 80% crit damage in CP as a base.

this is just going to bring back a burst meta as people are lol crit for 10k+ damage easy

Dunno why you are comparing no cp impen with cp crit damage. Overwhelming majority of people in no CP do not build for crit damage because its actually weaker than simply using malacath.

If you were fine before greymoor when they buffed crit resist to 2500 for a person with 7 impen, you'll be fine after the patch. You can still build for 2200 crit resist just by running impen, which is more than the pre-greymoor 1750 crit resist.

ZOS had the right idea to add base crit resist, instead of forcing everyone to run impen.

Wing

likecats wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I said like 3 years ago that the impen trait was a bad idea in general because if a trait is so good that everyone is using it on nearly every piece of gear, it may as well not exist or be passive. Impen only being on gear was always bad for pvp overall both because of this and because of how it locked newer players out of being competitive due to how much of a requirement the trait was. This seems like common sense stuff to me so I'm surprised it took them this long to make this change.

would not be so bad if crit damage stacking was not so effective and easy. even full impen at around 3500 crit resist only negates the base 50% damage increase of a crit.

thats before CP bonuses, mundus, sets, passives, etc.

most people run around with at least 80% crit damage in CP as a base.

this is just going to bring back a burst meta as people are lol crit for 10k+ damage easy

Dunno why you are comparing no cp impen with cp crit damage. Overwhelming majority of people in no CP do not have more than 50% base crit dmg, with the exception of nightblades and templars who have a passive for 10% more.

If you were fine before greymoor when they buffed crit resist to 2500 for a person with 7 impen, you'll be fine after the patch. You can still build for 2200 crit resist just be running impen, which is more than the pre-greymoor 1750.

ZOS had the right idea to add base crit resist, instead of forcing everyone to run impen.

where did i say i was using no cp impen?

khajiit also have a base extra 10%
shadow is base 13%
minor force is a given on anyone using RaT and easy to get other places

~80% is easy in no cp as well.

and im fine with the greymoor changes, they added base crit resist that was good, and gave impen a slight nerf that was also fine, this is however a second nerf within 2 patches, that i feel is not needed personally.

likecats

Wing wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I said like 3 years ago that the impen trait was a bad idea in general because if a trait is so good that everyone is using it on nearly every piece of gear, it may as well not exist or be passive. Impen only being on gear was always bad for pvp overall both because of this and because of how it locked newer players out of being competitive due to how much of a requirement the trait was. This seems like common sense stuff to me so I'm surprised it took them this long to make this change.

would not be so bad if crit damage stacking was not so effective and easy. even full impen at around 3500 crit resist only negates the base 50% damage increase of a crit.

thats before CP bonuses, mundus, sets, passives, etc.

most people run around with at least 80% crit damage in CP as a base.

this is just going to bring back a burst meta as people are lol crit for 10k+ damage easy

Dunno why you are comparing no cp impen with cp crit damage. Overwhelming majority of people in no CP do not have more than 50% base crit dmg, with the exception of nightblades and templars who have a passive for 10% more.

If you were fine before greymoor when they buffed crit resist to 2500 for a person with 7 impen, you'll be fine after the patch. You can still build for 2200 crit resist just be running impen, which is more than the pre-greymoor 1750.

ZOS had the right idea to add base crit resist, instead of forcing everyone to run impen.

where did i say i was using no cp impen?

khajiit also have a base extra 10%
shadow is base 13%
minor force is a given on anyone using RaT and easy to get other places

~80% is easy in no cp as well.

and im fine with the greymoor changes, they added base crit resist that was good, and gave impen a slight nerf that was also fine, this is however a second nerf within 2 patches, that i feel is not needed personally.

Pre-greymoor you got 1750 crit resist. Next patch, you get 2200 crit resist with 7 impen, if you were fine pre-greymoor, you will be fine next patch. And no, it wasn't a crit stacking meta before greymoor.

Wing

likecats wrote: »

Bottom line as I said, pre-greymoor you got 1750 crit resist. Next patch, you get 2200 crit resist with 7 impen, if you were fine pre-greymoor, you will be fine next patch. And no, it wasn't a crit stacking meta before greymoor.

pre greymoor was obviously more crit oriented compared to post because of malcath

with that being said i didnt say it was a crit meta anywhere though. . .once again you seem to be adding assumptions to my statements?

likecats

Wing wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Bottom line as I said, pre-greymoor you got 1750 crit resist. Next patch, you get 2200 crit resist with 7 impen, if you were fine pre-greymoor, you will be fine next patch. And no, it wasn't a crit stacking meta before greymoor.

pre greymoor was obviously more crit oriented compared to post because of malcath

with that being said i didnt say it was a crit meta anywhere though. . .once again you seem to be adding assumptions to my statements?

this is just going to bring back a burst meta as people are lol crit for 10k+ damage easy

Okay, so we agree that next patch won't return to "bring back a burst meta as people are lol crit for 10k+ damage easy".
Because it wasn't that way before greymoor. In fact you will be better off with 2200 crit resist next patch compared to 1750 before greymoor.

coercer02neb18_ESO

I mean, nerf it all you want, it still out performs, especially in no-cp. You can throw a couple of well fitted or sturdy in there now, but impen will still take 70%+ of the gear

Saubon

Zekka wrote: »

Unneeded, especially in no CP BGs where the time to kill is already very low.

I think the buff to proc sets will be bigger issue in non-CP than impen nerf. They even changed caluurion so ppl can use it with malacath.



Not to mention new stamsorc "spammable", on PTS you can buff yourself with crystal weapon+crushing weapon and than you can weave it into 3rd spammable or execute in just one GCD

ItsJustHashtag

Wing wrote: »

Impenetrable: Reduced the Critical Resistance granted to 127, down from 172.

so how we feeling about this.

they seem really mad at that trait, thats two patches in a row now of nerfs.

Good

AmoralOne

They probably want players to look at playing the other traits, which is why a lot of them got nice little buffs.

I think they are on to something with this though, and doing it all the correct ways. They gave us base impen to help us transition away from having to have all pieces impen. Myself, and a lot of players made our big pieces (Head, Chest, Legs) infused, with a Tri glyph. Now they are buffing infused from 20% to 25%

With those changes we were able to move CP points around, and still have 3k crit resistance.

Maybe now healers can use Ritual Mundus with Divines since that got buffed. It might not be as practical for healers to only wear impen, infused in the future.

Only time will tell!

ItsJustHashtag

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

Lord-Otto

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

katorga

Salad days for Khajit NB's with ~148% crit damage on a target with max crit resist (base, CP, 7 impen). If everyone uses hardly any impen that multiplier goes no where but up.

Using crit or procs, I think NB will be battling it out for top spot with proc set warden next DLC.

erio

Wing wrote: »

Impenetrable: Reduced the Critical Resistance granted to 127, down from 172.

so how we feeling about this.

they seem really mad at that trait, thats two patches in a row now of nerfs.

Good.

Langeston

It's a step in the right direction — IMO, ZOS could go even further if they wanted.

The Impen trait may have been nerfed last patch, but critical resistance as a whole got a tremendous buff. Even next patch, 7 Impen + the base crit resistance is going to mitigate 34% of crit damage. Before the crit resist changes, the best you could get was 27.36% — so after 2 supposed "nerfs," your crit mitigation with 7 impen has increased by 22%.

I wish ZOS's magblade nerfs worked like that.

ItsJustHashtag

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Lord-Otto

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Can you be a bit more detailed, please?

Firstmep

A lot of people havent changed away from impen on live, but a lot of that is due to Transmutation Crystals or not wanting to refarm the same gear, as impen was "fine".

Also could be that they think its fine for cp people to just bump a bunch of points into resistant.

Meanwhile in no cp, nightblades will be incapping people for 10k+ from cloak.

Its interesting that they also omegabuffed procsets that cant crit, but also buffed crit, so there is a choice to be made for sure.

ItsJustHashtag

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Can you be a bit more detailed, please?

Currently on live you run all impen and put like 47 or so points into resistant cp it gets you to 3800ish. I’ve personally dropped 20-25 points from this passive and I still had 3300ish crit resist. - ON LIVE


If you run 7 impen on pts with the old 47ish number you will be around 3300ish

Ragnaroek93

Good change. They should nerf the 1500 base impen a bit as well tbh. The numbers of impen which you can push on live server are ridiculous (especially in CP) and push everybody into Malacath setups because crit damage is irrelevant now.

Ezorus

Have never used it in the 3 years of playing.. Full divines all the way

Lord-Otto

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Can you be a bit more detailed, please?

Currently on live you run all impen and put like 47 or so points into resistant cp it gets you to 3800ish. I’ve personally dropped 20-25 points from this passive and I still had 3300ish crit resist. - ON LIVE


If you run 7 impen on pts with the old 47ish number you will be around 3300ish

47 points are excessive. With full impen and 26 points in Resistant you get to the 3300 crit resist mark, negating base crit bonus damage. Above that, you're better off putting the points in the other defensive stars. Live, of course.

ItsJustHashtag

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Can you be a bit more detailed, please?

Currently on live you run all impen and put like 47 or so points into resistant cp it gets you to 3800ish. I’ve personally dropped 20-25 points from this passive and I still had 3300ish crit resist. - ON LIVE


If you run 7 impen on pts with the old 47ish number you will be around 3300ish

47 points are excessive. With full impen and 26 points in Resistant you get to the 3300 crit resist mark, negating base crit bonus damage. Above that, you're better off putting the points in the other defensive stars. Live, of course.

I clearly stated 47 was what I had before they added the base impen. I also said I dropped 20-25 points from it to get to 3300ish crit resist. So what are you not understanding?


All you will have to do is go back to loading it to 47 or so and you will be back to 3300 with full impen.

Lord-Otto

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Can you be a bit more detailed, please?

Currently on live you run all impen and put like 47 or so points into resistant cp it gets you to 3800ish. I’ve personally dropped 20-25 points from this passive and I still had 3300ish crit resist. - ON LIVE


If you run 7 impen on pts with the old 47ish number you will be around 3300ish

47 points are excessive. With full impen and 26 points in Resistant you get to the 3300 crit resist mark, negating base crit bonus damage. Above that, you're better off putting the points in the other defensive stars. Live, of course.

I clearly stated 47 was what I had before they added the base impen. I also said I dropped 20-25 points from it to get to 3300ish crit resist. So what are you not understanding?


All you will have to do is go back to loading it to 47 or so and you will be back to 3300 with full impen.

First of all, RUDE! >=C
Second, no. You stated 47 points gave you 3800 points crit resist and that would be the norm for Cyrodiil. It's not. The other resistance stars are more consistent, thus you don't put too many points in Resistance. That's why the nerf to impen remains a nerf to crit resist. The star does not change. People will simply have less crit resist now, which is an indirect nerf to Malacath.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Firstmep wrote: »

A lot of people havent changed away from impen on live, but a lot of that is due to Transmutation Crystals or not wanting to refarm the same gear, as impen was "fine".

Also could be that they think its fine for cp people to just bump a bunch of points into resistant.

Meanwhile in no cp, nightblades will be incapping people for 10k+ from cloak.

Its interesting that they also omegabuffed procsets that cant crit, but also buffed crit, so there is a choice to be made for sure.

If right now on my medium armor build with 0 impen im not getting incapped for 10k + next patch will not make NB dmg skyrockets.
Not to mention the change to master assassin is not going to increase the dmg of incap by just pressing cloak.

There might be some build full divine with shadow mundus and what not hitting really hard but at the same time they will drop dead like flies aswell.

But even right now most build are 4/5 impen 2/3 other trait still so if you have any problem you can just change one(or more if you wish) trait back to impen and be fine.

Personally idc if they revert or not the change im fine either way but incap is not going to hit much more than now (if even will hit more than now).

ItsJustHashtag

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

It’s literally because with typical setup and the battle spirit buff you got like 3800 crit resist. So instead of touching the battle spirit crit resist granted they decided to go with the trait.

If my math is correct people will still have like 3300-3400 crit resist with this change if they kept old builds.

You're about 500 points off. How do you calculate such ridiculous numbers?
(o_ô)

Because I include CP.

Can you be a bit more detailed, please?

Currently on live you run all impen and put like 47 or so points into resistant cp it gets you to 3800ish. I’ve personally dropped 20-25 points from this passive and I still had 3300ish crit resist. - ON LIVE


If you run 7 impen on pts with the old 47ish number you will be around 3300ish

47 points are excessive. With full impen and 26 points in Resistant you get to the 3300 crit resist mark, negating base crit bonus damage. Above that, you're better off putting the points in the other defensive stars. Live, of course.

I clearly stated 47 was what I had before they added the base impen. I also said I dropped 20-25 points from it to get to 3300ish crit resist. So what are you not understanding?


All you will have to do is go back to loading it to 47 or so and you will be back to 3300 with full impen.

First of all, RUDE! >=C
Second, no. You stated 47 points gave you 3800 points crit resist and that would be the norm for Cyrodiil. It's not. The other resistance stars are more consistent, thus you don't put too many points in Resistance. That's why the nerf to impen remains a nerf to crit resist. The star does not change. People will simply have less crit resist now, which is an indirect nerf to Malacath.

So like what exactly are you trying to argue?

Everything I said is true and impen values are way higher with the base impen added