The healing nerfs seem far more severe than intended

Fawn4287

Stam dk gets 12% healing from draconic power, major mending 30% from obsidian shield, minor vitality from dragonblood, 3.5k weapon damage backbar, 30k stam, CP in to healing done and received now my vigors crit 2.1k like What??? I would easily crit double that last patch. Rally is even worse, I would see 11k+ rallys in PvP last patch, this update 6-7k is the standard. I saw a youtuber do a comparison with no gear on last update vs fullly geared up this update and his vigors hit more with nothing on. Im not sure if healing in general has been butchered or just the main stamina healing skills.

Video for reference

https://youtu.be/0X2tATtft1Q

Ishtharo

1) Healing was not cut in half, so neither was your Vigor ticks
2) There seems to be a bug with Rally and it's healing. Inconsistent is the best descriptor.

mikey_reach

I actually like the healing nerf although i know that cant really be said for every class. And ive also heard and seen of situations of where rally has been highly inconsistent in a fairly obvious way when you catch i guess i could say.

Zahirr

Exactly. They wanted to do two things: kill solo play, and make turn fights into dps checks.

Well, now you only stand a chance if you LOS like a glitchy hotwheels car in solo play. And on a heavy armor build, I absolutely melt people in 30 seconds. So now you need to run in a ball group or die to one, but dont even get to play as vigor restores about as much HP as a bad choir performance.

Luckily Stamnecro just outtanks everything with % mitigation, and Sorcerers run laps around us while laughing behind 50 shields. Great patch, and by great I mean horrifically, insultingly bad.

OBJnoob

Wow I'm so glad someone else mentioned Rally sucking. I haven't gone as far as clipping my own moments to check and see if I'm actually crazy or not... but, even understanding sometimes I probably let Rally go down by accident like a noob or tried to re-cast after only 5 seconds cuz I'm blind and dumb, it certainly at times is used correctly but just does jack squat. And maybe half of those times I was defiled and didn't know it... I play on Xbox so I rely more on just knowing what's being done to me than by actually taking the time to look at any debuff icons. But jeez, Rally is a big annoyance sometimes. And Vigor sucks too but I feel like that might be more a problem with roll dodge. I can roll dodge cancel just fine... but that first cast OUT of roll dodge is just doodoo. And unfortunately for me that tends to be Vigor.

ItsJustHashtag

Rally’s burst heal fails to heal at times.

Ishtharo

The biggest issue with healing this patch is just the inconsistancey between the options available.
Forexample, stamcro has access to Vigor, Rally, Mortal Coil and Spirit mender as easy options, where stamplar has vigor, Rally, and ritual.

To further the comparison, stamcro has access to spirit mender's 10% mitigation along with minor prot through Psijic, where as stamplar only has minor prot.

Both classes have a powerful cleanse.

both classes have delayed burst.

Stamplar definitely has the spammable advantage though.

Point is, each class has it's own strengths and weaknesses for different situations. That's not a bad thing. But some classes don't have downsides, and that's the issue (magsorc, stamcro, stamden).

OBJnoob

What percentage mitigation does magsorc have? Not trolling... serious question. Do they? I agree that magsorc is very strong. But I also think templars are very strong and it worries me that whenever a downside to templar is brought up it's always in a comparison to a necro.

I play a DK and obviously I'm not struggling with healing too much. Especially now that I know Rally may truly be bugged. That explains... so much. Not complaining at all about my class-- am very vocally against buffing DK whenever someone brings it up.

I agree that percentage mitigation should either be nerfed or spread around for more easy access. That may have been the largest issue to begin with. It's certainly OP in the case of stamnecro, who can still smack you around at the same time.

I do not however disagree that healing should've been nerfed a little. And I'm not so sure, until some of these other problems are addressed, we're going to even have a way to come up with a real solution.

It seems like everybody wishes the healing nerf effected zergs but it's effecting solo players instead. I called that like months ago :P I'm normally not in favor of nerfs of any kind. I have been getting annoyed with this patch though, the longer it goes on.

Nobody likes it when I say templars are in a good spot. They are apparently hurting for healing like everyone else... and I'm trying very hard to believe that when I'm told it, even though I'm not sure I see a lot of it. And I do mostly just mean magplars, btw.

So to nerf healing... for mostly zergers... to nerf healing... for mostly only healers... I suggest rework some of the passives on resto heavy attacks. Now this has nothing to do with possibly nerfing stamcro or possibly reworking percentage mitigation. But maybe the right answer involves all three.

Why do resto heavy attacks heal you for a percentage of the final hit, give you major mending, AND restore extra resources? Why does it return magic when you block spells? I think it may be just slightly overtuned and a rework to that would effect the 'rapid regen' spammers but not the, for example, solo stamplar. For comparison let us think about 1h and shield passives. One of which involves mobility while blocking... umm borderline useless in my opinion... and one of which involves bashing which is, eh, situational. And I'm not saying 1h and Shield isn't perfectly fine for PVP. Blocking is amazing. So is roll dodging. But look at all the stuff resto heavies do!

AMeanOne

Resto heavies? Really?

EtTuBrutus

OBJnoob wrote: »

What percentage mitigation does magsorc have? Not trolling... serious question. Do they? I agree that magsorc is very strong. But I also think templars are very strong and it worries me that whenever a downside to templar is brought up it's always in a comparison to a necro.

I play a DK and obviously I'm not struggling with healing too much. Especially now that I know Rally may truly be bugged. That explains... so much. Not complaining at all about my class-- am very vocally against buffing DK whenever someone brings it up.

I agree that percentage mitigation should either be nerfed or spread around for more easy access. That may have been the largest issue to begin with. It's certainly OP in the case of stamnecro, who can still smack you around at the same time.

I do not however disagree that healing should've been nerfed a little. And I'm not so sure, until some of these other problems are addressed, we're going to even have a way to come up with a real solution.

It seems like everybody wishes the healing nerf effected zergs but it's effecting solo players instead. I called that like months ago :P I'm normally not in favor of nerfs of any kind. I have been getting annoyed with this patch though, the longer it goes on.

Nobody likes it when I say templars are in a good spot. They are apparently hurting for healing like everyone else... and I'm trying very hard to believe that when I'm told it, even though I'm not sure I see a lot of it. And I do mostly just mean magplars, btw.

So to nerf healing... for mostly zergers... to nerf healing... for mostly only healers... I suggest rework some of the passives on resto heavy attacks. Now this has nothing to do with possibly nerfing stamcro or possibly reworking percentage mitigation. But maybe the right answer involves all three.

Why do resto heavy attacks heal you for a percentage of the final hit, give you major mending, AND restore extra resources? Why does it return magic when you block spells? I think it may be just slightly overtuned and a rework to that would effect the 'rapid regen' spammers but not the, for example, solo stamplar. For comparison let us think about 1h and shield passives. One of which involves mobility while blocking... umm borderline useless in my opinion... and one of which involves bashing which is, eh, situational. And I'm not saying 1h and Shield isn't perfectly fine for PVP. Blocking is amazing. So is roll dodging. But look at all the stuff resto heavies do!

Lol resto heavies? What?

Healing is certainly worse, but combining multiple sources with active mitigation and its fine.

OBJnoob

Yes really. Because of all the crap I said. Nice counter argument though. I can see how you see it your way.

EtTuBrutus

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yes really. Because of all the crap I said. Nice counter argument though. I can see how you see it your way.

You actually think resto heavies are why zerg healing is strong? A 3 second ATTACK with a MINUSCULE SINGLE TARGET heal, that gives you resources (not healing). The only thing that it does to impact healing is major mending, and 2 classes can do that permanently without channeling a 3 second non healing ability tied to a weapon skill line.

Firstmep

It's even worse in no cp, try playing stamplar with 1.2k vigor ticks.

Major_Lag

Meanwhile, the amount (over)healing in medium/large groups is still as ludicrously huge as it was before the nerfs, due to stacking obscene amount of crossheals from multiple members of the group.

But apparently ZOS doesn't understand any of that - so I'd not be surprised if we eventually end up with even more blanket nerfs to healing, without anything being done to address the real root of the problem.

ecru

Major_Lag wrote: »

Meanwhile, the amount (over)healing in medium/large groups is still as ludicrously huge as it was before the nerfs, due to stacking obscene amount of crossheals from multiple members of the group.

But apparently ZOS doesn't understand any of that - so I'd not be surprised if we eventually end up with even more blanket nerfs to healing, without anything being done to address the real root of the problem.

They really don't seem to get it. Individual healing wasn't necessarily an issue, it was mostly the ridiculous amount of cross healing that can be put out with only as much effort as it takes to slot a resto staff and one ability. We got compensated with the nerf to Vigor's duration and cross healing with an increase in healing, but other heals were buffed and cross heals from other sources weren't touched. Now healing as a whole has been nerfed, 4 second Vigor is trash (especially with major defile everywhere), and the cross healing is still an issue because.. it's cross healing, and it all stacks. I don't know what to do with these ~2k vigor ticks against Major Defile, especially now that a lot of good mitigation sources (bloodspawn, all armor sources, protective jewelry, etc) have been nerfed into the ground.

If you play a stam class that only has one major source of healing (Vigor), you're screwed.