Review argonian racials

gresiac

Can you please take a look to the racials, they are one of the worst race to pick for any style of play. They are not the best at anything anymore. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

rabidmyers

they are still the best at being the master race doe

ZaroktheImmortal

How about looking at dark elf, high elf and wood elf racials?

MellowMagic

Imperials would like to have a word with you

ayu_fever

the last thing argonians need is any kind of buff or racial rework.
the resourceful passive is a crutch- it should be nerfed by at least 50%.
learn to heavy attack.

Alidel

Argonians are still top tier for tanks, aren't they? I'd rather they've changed bosmer's roll dodge passive for a flat penetration buff.

Elwendryll

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

How about looking at dark elf, high elf and wood elf racials?

Can I ask you why dark elves when they're basically like khajiit with better dps? Just nerf orcs

Bucky_13

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

How about looking at dark elf, high elf and wood elf racials?

Don't touch the dark elf racials, I love them. For my NBs, they work exceptionally.

Wood elf on the other hand, very much yes. Make them stealthy again, dumbest change of racial passives ZOS did.

Deathlord92

I just want max stamina racial passive for my Breton stamblade 😭

purple-magicb16_ESO

ayu_fever wrote: »

the last thing argonians need is any kind of buff or racial rework.
the resourceful passive is a crutch- it should be nerfed by at least 50%.
learn to heavy attack.

But while they're constantly heavy attacking, they can't taunt, then you complain that your tanks can't hold aggro.

colossalvoids

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

How about looking at dark elf, high elf and wood elf racials?

Any reasoning why any of their passives are not good? Beside bosmeri rp one obviously.

colossalvoids

And yeah, argonians are surely in need of some sort of rework, it's really underwhelming right now.

Tranquilizer

I wouldn't play those ugly lizards even if they double or triple the racial passives.

Hippety hoppety....

Sincerely
a dark elf

AmoralOne

Dunmer scum. ^ I love my Argonian give mah a buff!

Red_Feather

Aren't they the most balanced in the game.

Zer0_CooL

-Decreases your potion cooldown by 8 secconds.

nemvar

-Decreases your potion cooldown by 8 secconds.


Potion speed is really scary. There is no cap on it. 3 potion cooldown jewelry is currently not very good because that results in a 15 second potion cooldown. But if you could add another 8 seconds onto that you suddenly have a 7 second potion cooldown which would result in permanent CC immunity, 100% clever alchemist uptime along with crazy resource regeneration.

If someone were to spent enough cash for 3 golden infused jewelry pieces, they could even do a potion rotation were they get permanent uptime on every single positive effect available from pots.

The only thing stopping such a build is how hilariously expensive it is to play.

BlueRaven

Racial passives are an all in all mess.

Argonians and bosmer have the wrong resistances. (And of course bosmer stealth.)

Nords should be dps focused, orcs should be tank-y.

High elves... It’s just all very disappointing.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. All I want for them to do is to update Life Mender passive.

It increases healing by 6%.

But it is based on a gear set, bonus that at that time was giving 2% more healing. Literality one update after racial rebalance, ZOS buffed gear bonus to 4% (double the original value). And yet, Argonian passive remained untouched, despite ZOS "standardizing" everything in game...

Tryxus

BlueRaven wrote: »

orcs should be tank-y.

Orcs are berserkers. They smash puny humans and punch pointy eared elves in the face

Faulgor

BlueRaven wrote: »

Racial passives are an all in all mess.

Argonians and bosmer have the wrong resistances. (And of course bosmer stealth.)

Nords should be dps focused, orcs should be tank-y.

High elves... It’s just all very disappointing.

Finally somebody said it. Nords always had the higher strength bonus when TES still had attributes, and Orcs were always more proficient with heavy armor - even in ESO!

Likewise, Argonians should've never been tanky. They are intelligent and agile skirmishers with very low endurance.

But really, racials are pretty irrelevant for tanking, and to a lesser extend for healing as well. They mainly matter for DPS. Which is why designing racials around tanking and healing will always result in subpar races - DPS races can heal and tank just fine, but the reverse is not true.

IMO Argonians should be the sustain counterpart to Dunmer - a hybrid with bonuses to stamina and magicka, combined with their potion passive.

Sarannah

Honestly, I've loved the argonian racials lately. Their swim speed makes them excellent to move around in the world, and their poison immunity... I just laugh at poison snipers in battlegrounds. Not to mention they look cool.

I do feel they should make passives more all-rounded. Give every race a world ability, a dps ability, a survival ability, and a resource ability. Though the current racials are fine in my opinion.

BlueRaven

Tryxus wrote: »

show previous quotes

BlueRaven wrote: »

orcs should be tank-y.

Orcs are berserkers. They smash puny humans and punch pointy eared elves in the face

Orcs in Skyrim.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Orsimer_(Skyrim)

“ The people of the Wrothgarian and Dragontail Mountains, Orcish smiths are prized for their craftsmanship. Orc troops in Heavy Armor are among the finest in the Empire, and are fearsome when using their Berserker Rage.”

+10 Heavy Armor (25)
+5 Block (20)
+5 Enchanting (20)
+5 One-Handed (20)
+5 Smithing (20)
+5 Two-Handed (20)

Starting spells

Flames (Destruction)
Healing (Restoration)

Special abilities

Berserker Rage – Take half damage and do double damage for 60 seconds. This does not apply to damage dealt by spells; however, it does stack with other physical damage buffs. While Berserker Rage is active, the screen turns red and a little blurry while sound dulls a bit.

•••

Even in their bezerker rage they take half damage. They are renown for heavy armor(their highest racial in Skyrim), and block is as high a trait for them as any dps passive.

I know what you said was meant to be in jest, it’s just that (to me) I really like the Elder Scrolls series and it really bothers me that basic elements (like racial passives) are not taken more seriously. Because if the basics are not done right, it shakes my faith in the whole series.

Tommy_The_Gun

Sarannah wrote: »

Honestly, I've loved the argonian racials lately. Their swim speed makes them excellent to move around in the world, and their poison immunity... I just laugh at poison snipers in battlegrounds. Not to mention they look cool.

I do feel they should make passives more all-rounded. Give every race a world ability, a dps ability, a survival ability, and a resource ability. Though the current racials are fine in my opinion.

They don't have poison immunity... That is one of many weird / senseless things ZOS did...

Sarannah

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sarannah wrote: »

Honestly, I've loved the argonian racials lately. Their swim speed makes them excellent to move around in the world, and their poison immunity... I just laugh at poison snipers in battlegrounds. Not to mention they look cool.

I do feel they should make passives more all-rounded. Give every race a world ability, a dps ability, a survival ability, and a resource ability. Though the current racials are fine in my opinion.

They don't have poison immunity... That is one of many weird / senseless things ZOS did...

Haha, yeah I meant disease. But same thing.

It is funny when in BG's snipers stop shooting you because they do absolutely no damage.

ZaroktheImmortal

Dark elves are kind of a hybrid class that aren't really top ranking or even considered one of the best or close to it at either roles for PVE(They actually used to be really great for magika dps before they got nerfed and even lost their boost to fire damage). High elves have most of their racial passives geared to magika yet have a perk that restores the lowest of magika or stamina so basically it's a magic based class and you'll probably be playing them magic yet their passive will be restoring stamina instead. Wood Elves are fully stamina based on racial perks and they're not even considered close to being one of the better ones for those roles.

gatekeeper13

Life Mender and Resourceful are actually great racial skills.

colossalvoids

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Dark elves are kind of a hybrid class that aren't really top ranking or even considered one of the best or close to it at either roles for PVE(They actually used to be really great for magika dps before they got nerfed and even lost their boost to fire damage). High elves have most of their racial passives geared to magika yet have a perk that restores the lowest of magika or stamina so basically it's a magic based class and you'll probably be playing them magic yet their passive will be restoring stamina instead. Wood Elves are fully stamina based on racial perks and they're not even considered close to being one of the better ones for those roles.

Dunmer is an orc and an altmer in one flask so yes they're more than viable especially if you're swapping roles from time to time, it's almost ideal. And actually their spell damage worth more than a flame boost they had before, tested on pts versus live a long time ago.

Altmer doesn't need more magicka passives for sure already being the best one, off stat passive makes them way tankier as they can dodge or block / melee interrupt more than others.

Bosmer is a sustain race but the thing is that pve currently needs zero sustain investment on a stamina side to perform and they can't trade it off for more damage with current food choices etc. So it was a pure pvp gank race and became just best stamina sustain one with a nice roll bonus on top of that, not a very drastic change but better than before, when you actually needed to build for sustain to get all the benefits, now you getting pretty hefty amount of sustain without any sacrifices.

Only thing that can make em more viable is massive stamina sustain nerf or conversion from sustain to damage through penetration maybe (looks like a zos way), idk and personally don't want to lose current passives for it myself.

Tommy_The_Gun

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Life Mender and Resourceful are actually great racial skills.

Only Resourceful. Life Mender gives close to nothing if you take into account how healing bonus works in ESO.

Ratzkifal

Regarding racial passives there are two fronts on which to fight on:

1. the lore
2. the balance

Lore wise we have quite a few problems.
Argonians are resistant to both poison and disease, not one or the other - both!
Bosmer are stealthy, just like Khajiit, and taking that away from them is taking away their most characteristic trait right after Marksmanship.
Altmer don't restore stamina. Even explaining it through Alteration, like we were told, makes no sense because every race can use Alteration so every race would be able to restore stamina that way. It's silly.
Orcs are supposed to be very tough, tougher than Imperials, so they should be a better fit for the tanking role than they are now, pulling at least even with them in terms of raw stats
Imperials should be a bit more hybrid than they are now, because they are famous for being the jack-of-all-trades and are not only renouned for the Legion's physical combat prowess but their battlemages too.

Balance wise the issues are not as immediately obvious but there are still a few.
Argonians run on a lower powerbudget than the other races with their Life Mender passive only counting for 1.5 item set boni rather than 3. They also cannot compete with Nords and Imperials because they lack group utility, like ultimate generation/cost redution.
Bosmer gain nothing from Hunter's Eye in PvE other than movementspeed because conditional penetration isn't worth it as it means damage loss or loss of sustain. Also detection is useless, even in PvP.
Redguards (and Bosmer and Imperials) suffer from not being able to translate their excess sustain into more damage, resulting in the other races pulling far ahead damage-wise. Bretons are in the same boat, but because magicka costs are higher in general the gap is far smaller for them.
Nords suffer from not having as much max stamina as the other races with no offensive or sustain passives beyond which ties them down to being tanks in PvE.

It needs to be kept in mind that these passives don't exist in a vacuum and that changes to food, mundus stones etc can affect the viability of the different races. For example if sustain gets nerfed hard, then sustain races will automatically pull ahead. Khajiit will most likely pull ahead if the Shadow Mundus gets nerfed. That's why I think the lore issues are the most pressing, because these issues persist regardless of the state of balance.

Aptonoth

BlueRaven wrote: »

Racial passives are an all in all mess.

Argonians and bosmer have the wrong resistances. (And of course bosmer stealth.)

Nords should be dps focused, orcs should be tank-y.

High elves... It’s just all very disappointing.

I want lore accurate bonuses or remove them all so we can make any race good at anything. I want to play dps Argonian but am penalized for it even though in lore they are a dps race. Also wrong resistance makes me autismo out. I want to just play an Argonian night blade without being "wrong" as it’s what I’ve done in every es game as it’s what hey were made to play.