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The Stamina Thrassian
Kittytravel
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And why it doesn't work well. I've seen a lot of threads talking about Stranglers lately and people remarking how it's not exactly fair that no stamina equivalent was granted; these are usually met with "Well you can always use pelinals." Well... not exactly.
Due to the way Pelinals works it raises and equates only the highest of the two stats; so Pelinals won't work very well to make Thrassian a good stam-build item because of that fact. I've included some screenshots with some gear just to give an idea of how this all works, I threw together some weird sets just to ensure it allowed for the most effective method of clearing up this interaction.
The sets are Thrassian Stranglers, Pelinals Aptitiude, Fortified Brass, and Mighty Chudan Shoulder. The armor types are (1) Light (5) Medium (1) Heavy. All armor is utilizing Divines trait and jewelry using Infused. It is a bow/bow stam build with the main weapon having Nirnhoned. All gear aside from Thrassian is epic quality.
https://imgur.com/a/bbPLAgT
The second to last screenshot contains the proof that I had 20 stacks of Sloads Call at the time of all these screenshots; I wanted to make it clear that it was max stacked for this reason.
The first two screenshots show, with 20 stacks of Sloads call, my WD sitting at 4,290. The second two screenshots show, with a white unenchanted inferno staff with 0 passives in Destruction Staff, my WD only drops to 4037, only 253 points short of using the nirnhoned purple bow. Upgrading that flame staff to purple quality narrows the gap further bringing it to 4132 WD; now only 158 points short. Using Nirnhoned on the staff or having any of the passives would certainly push it over the edge but that wouldn't be using a stamina build.
So if you don't understand yet from all that I'll explain it more clearly here: Thrassian Stanglers only has Spell Damage additions; meaning that your Weapon Damage VS Spell Damage must be higher than one another to be effective for Pelinals; the smaller the gap the greater the benefit from Pelinals and Stranglers.
If you start at 0 stacks of Sloads Call and your WD is 2,250 and your Spell Damage is 1,300 then the first 6 stacks of Sloads call will be completely ineffective granting you literally nothing. The proceeding 14 stacks will raise your WD from 2250 to 4300, the combined total of 20 stacks of Sloads Call and your original 1300 SD.
The answer to this is of course avoid as much WD on your sets as you can and thus why I specifically used the Fortified Brass and Mighty Chudan; these sets grant no weapon damage and so really show how inneffective a build using Stam and Stranglers would be in comparison with the magicka counterpart of its use.
With that said! I don't actually think Thrassian Stranglers should get a stamina counterpart; while I'd be fine seeing buffs given to Malacaths Band of Brutality considering how... lackluster it is in effectiveness Thrassian Stranglers sits in a really neat place and I like where it exists. I just wanted to make this informative post to explain to people why "Just use Pelinals" really isn't a good answer to that whole side of things. In my opinion I'd like to see a function added to Malacaths which grants it extra WD based on remaining crit chance after you've tailored your build around not critting since so many passives in the game grant crit chance that you inevitably have some left over.
For anyone who's really wanting to try a stam build with this item the things I'd do are:
Spell Damage enchants on Infused Jewelry. You want to make sure Sloads is giving you max benefit as soon as it can; thin the distance between your WD and SD as much as possible.
Leviathan Set with Shadow mundus might actually be quite helpful here; since Thrassian is going to grant all your WD you can pour the extra set into crit and maximize out the bonus crit damage you'll be dealing.
If you go the route I did with the build (Yes I've been using this build for overland garbage farming because it actually works pretty okay and is a change of pace) then you can use some armor sets to up your livability and be completely dependent on Thrassians damage increase. If you do this I recommend grabbing Apprentice over Shadow to once again narrow the gap on your WD VS SD.
Overall it's a weird build with mostly niche intentions and not something that would ever score high on charts. Hope this was helpful!
Edited by Kittytravel on July 8, 2020 9:23PM Due to the way Pelinals works it raises and equates only the highest of the two stats; so Pelinals won't work very well to make Thrassian a good stam-build item because of that fact. I've included some screenshots with some gear just to give an idea of how this all works, I threw together some weird sets just to ensure it allowed for the most effective method of clearing up this interaction.
The sets are Thrassian Stranglers, Pelinals Aptitiude, Fortified Brass, and Mighty Chudan Shoulder. The armor types are (1) Light (5) Medium (1) Heavy. All armor is utilizing Divines trait and jewelry using Infused. It is a bow/bow stam build with the main weapon having Nirnhoned. All gear aside from Thrassian is epic quality.
https://imgur.com/a/bbPLAgT
The second to last screenshot contains the proof that I had 20 stacks of Sloads Call at the time of all these screenshots; I wanted to make it clear that it was max stacked for this reason.
The first two screenshots show, with 20 stacks of Sloads call, my WD sitting at 4,290. The second two screenshots show, with a white unenchanted inferno staff with 0 passives in Destruction Staff, my WD only drops to 4037, only 253 points short of using the nirnhoned purple bow. Upgrading that flame staff to purple quality narrows the gap further bringing it to 4132 WD; now only 158 points short. Using Nirnhoned on the staff or having any of the passives would certainly push it over the edge but that wouldn't be using a stamina build.
So if you don't understand yet from all that I'll explain it more clearly here: Thrassian Stanglers only has Spell Damage additions; meaning that your Weapon Damage VS Spell Damage must be higher than one another to be effective for Pelinals; the smaller the gap the greater the benefit from Pelinals and Stranglers.
If you start at 0 stacks of Sloads Call and your WD is 2,250 and your Spell Damage is 1,300 then the first 6 stacks of Sloads call will be completely ineffective granting you literally nothing. The proceeding 14 stacks will raise your WD from 2250 to 4300, the combined total of 20 stacks of Sloads Call and your original 1300 SD.
The answer to this is of course avoid as much WD on your sets as you can and thus why I specifically used the Fortified Brass and Mighty Chudan; these sets grant no weapon damage and so really show how inneffective a build using Stam and Stranglers would be in comparison with the magicka counterpart of its use.
With that said! I don't actually think Thrassian Stranglers should get a stamina counterpart; while I'd be fine seeing buffs given to Malacaths Band of Brutality considering how... lackluster it is in effectiveness Thrassian Stranglers sits in a really neat place and I like where it exists. I just wanted to make this informative post to explain to people why "Just use Pelinals" really isn't a good answer to that whole side of things. In my opinion I'd like to see a function added to Malacaths which grants it extra WD based on remaining crit chance after you've tailored your build around not critting since so many passives in the game grant crit chance that you inevitably have some left over.
For anyone who's really wanting to try a stam build with this item the things I'd do are:
Spell Damage enchants on Infused Jewelry. You want to make sure Sloads is giving you max benefit as soon as it can; thin the distance between your WD and SD as much as possible.
Leviathan Set with Shadow mundus might actually be quite helpful here; since Thrassian is going to grant all your WD you can pour the extra set into crit and maximize out the bonus crit damage you'll be dealing.
If you go the route I did with the build (Yes I've been using this build for overland garbage farming because it actually works pretty okay and is a change of pace) then you can use some armor sets to up your livability and be completely dependent on Thrassians damage increase. If you do this I recommend grabbing Apprentice over Shadow to once again narrow the gap on your WD VS SD.
Overall it's a weird build with mostly niche intentions and not something that would ever score high on charts. Hope this was helpful!
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »
But it looks like you just showed us a inferior version of your build to sell your point.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA6 -
Alendrin✭✭✭Why would you use fortified brass and one piece chudan in any example those are tanking sets.3 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭I would think the play would be pelenials and lokke with spell damage glyphs. The problem is you would be a little weak up front untill thrassian kicked in but once it did you would be good. Also definitely 1pc slimecraw or other weapon crit set to get proper damage though these are a lot of hoops to jump through in order to try to get an equivalent.0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭But it looks like you just showed us a inferior version of your build to sell your point.
Explain how so? The explanation was to inform people that to use Thrassian as a stam setup they need to avoid having a WD much higher than their SD or Pelinals won't give it's full potential effect. I'm not trying to sell anything; I'm just clearing up confusion on the interaction with Pelinals and Thrassian since a lot of people seem to think that using both sets will just grant 3000 extra WD on top of whatever you had to start with which isn't the case.Why would you use fortified brass and one piece chudan in any example those are tanking sets.
Yep and they don't grant any offensive stats so the sheets in the screenshots look clean; I personally use them for overworld farming because the defensive stats offset the drawbacks of Thrassian. If you read the entire post you'd see I recommended Leviathan which would considered to be the counterpart to Mothers Sorrow if you were aiming for max damage as well as something like a crit monster piece.0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭I would think the play would be pelenials and lokke with spell damage glyphs. The problem is you would be a little weak up front untill thrassian kicked in but once it did you would be good. Also definitely 1pc slimecraw or other weapon crit set to get proper damage though these are a lot of hoops to jump through in order to try to get an equivalent.
I did look at Lokke but since it has a 2x WD set bonus and the other affects don't happen outside of Dungeons/Trials I discarded the idea because it just widens the effective benefit of Pelinals/Thrassian. Having Lokke on alone would nullify the first two stack of Sloads Call plus whatever extra WD gap there was left between SD.
I did also consider Tzogvins but I figured Leviathen adds more upfront on-demand damage which as you pointed out is a sore spot with this setup and I can't really see these builds being used for anything more than a for-fun overland farming setup.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »
But it looks like you just showed us a inferior version of your build to sell your point.
Bingo!!! If you want to play to this set on stamina, you have to go all in. You need Spell damage glyphs, , class access to to major sorcery, and probably want to be a Dunmer or Khajiit. To not include SD glyphs is frankly misleading and weakens your case. Is it as good as it is on a magic class? Clearly not. That said, stamina absolutely dominates PVP, which is what it seems like you are building for.
There is also probably a pretty compelling argument with this type of build to go with 5 heavy. Your medium armor is really only there for the crit at that point, at least in terms of damage. I ran both medium and heavy setups in with Thrassian and Pelinals in VMA. Medium was more damage, but not by a ton.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on July 8, 2020 9:02PM1 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Bingo!!! If you want to play to this set on stamina, you have to go all in. You need Spell damage glyphs, , class access to to major sorcery, and probably want to be a Dunmer or Khajiit. To not include SD glyphs is frankly misleading and weakens your case. Is it as good as it is on a magic class? Clearly not. That said, stamina absolutely dominates PVP, which is what it seems like you are building for.
There is also probably a pretty compelling argument with this type of build to go with 5 heavy. Your medium armor is really only there for the crit at that point, at least in terms of damage. I ran both medium and heavy setups in with Thrassian and Pelinals in VMA. Medium was more damage, but not by a ton.
I actually cannot tell if you read the original post or are just assuming based on his reply? Did you read the quote he even put in his reply? I'll go ahead and outline what I'm talking about.Kittytravel wrote: »
I explicitly state at the end of the OP that you should use SD glyphs on infused jewelry. There isn't anything misleading about any of it. I'd appreciate if you are going to post or reply in a thread that you at least read the OP.
None of this is a "build" for anything; it's an explanation because everyone seems to misunderstand how Pelinal and Thrassian interact. This just happens to be something I'm playing around with because I get bored of using the same build for any more than 2-4 months.
With all that said I appreciate your input on the Medium VS Heavy setup as I didn't try that at all; I only did this with a medium armor 5p and it's good to know it makes little difference; though I'd be curious to know if you have any parses that show how much the difference is and what sets were involved?0 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭I think it depends on the class, really. My stamcro is really not helped at all with Pelinals + thrassian. But the Stamblade is a whole other story
My typical stamblade bow setup looks like this
It's 10,000 dps higher when I slot Thrassian + Pelinals
Still a far cry from the 130 k damage some magblades are showing off, but it's kind of cool for me since that's the highest my Bosmer archer has hit to date.
And Thrassian works wonders in 4 player dungeons. Here's the Planar Inhibitor from last night's pledge, I think it's around 10kdps than I've hit on that boss in the past on stamblade
Still a far cry from the 70's - 80's I've seen some magblades hitting on some bosses in 4 player dungeons, but I think it's fun anyway. Again, i dont' recommend it unless your class has access to major sorcery. Degeneration seems kind of like a bad way to get major sorcery on a stamina character, at least it did on my stamcro. It was hitting 2k dps less with pelinals / thrassian.1 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭@MudcrabAttack Wow that's actually extremely helpful for making this build in a more "serious" light; I only did it for fun but yours definitely shows off a bit more of what it can do.
Degeneration makes sense since while it will still scale off your SD it does less damage because you lack a magicka pool. I imagine you could just sub in Major Sorcery potions instead of a skill for classes that don't have their own source of it though? The issue with that is of course it not granting the stam regen side of that but maybe it'd help. Overall I really appreciate the parses above because anyone wanting to try a thrassian stam build can actually see it works to an effective level more than I thought.0 -
Disclaimer: I dont play DPS, but some hybrid PvP. With that out of the way.
If you're playing a Pelinal's build shouldn't you use some of the strong magicka skills you're missing out of on a traditional stamina build? Mystic Orb etc - it'd put less stress on your sustain too since you're using both pools. Siroria might even be better than Relequen.
I'd imagine Templar would be the best class for it since you have minor sorcery and trivial access to both major crit buffs for whatever magicka skills you use to compliment your stamina with. Threw some random ass Thrassian Pelinal's templar together and compared with the first YouTube guide listing numbers, Skinny Cheek's stamplar (and Alcast's magplar), the unbuffed flat numbers look equal or higher and the CPs/stats/glyphs are most likely far from min/max:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=255920
The higher crit dmg% on the stamina focused probably match or surpass in a full parse.0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭@jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO You couldn't use many since your pools and sustain for magicka are already so low; you can see in my stat sheet that my magicka only reaches 11k. In addition to that the size of your Magicka pool and Stamina pool both increase the damage skills do; it's not solely dependent on SP/WP. That's why hybrid builds usually go poorly because both pools need to be high with decent sustain and by the end result it's just not worth it.
But yes in this case throwing in one or two magicka skills won't hurt at all but I didn't do a DPS parse on any of this. Mudcrab took care of that side so I'd wager there is a reason Mystic Orb wasn't subbed in as a DPS ability likely to do with the damage loss from a small magicka pool.0 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe next season, just wait
Maybe you guys change Zos mind, gonna huge nerf this bracer when most of us bought this chapter1