Complete Sorcerer Rework

ItsNotLiving

Sorcerer has faded in this games eyes and I propose a complete rework of the class to make it easier to play with (and against) in PvP and PvE these are just ideas on what could be done to make it better (and worse) and better fit with the theme of a mobile shock mage rather than an untargetable zoo with boring skills.

Daedric Summoning

-Familiar- Now is untargetable but lasts 10 seconds and does low damage
-Volatile familar now explodes when it desummons with a low damage AoE
-Clannfear remains the same but with no heal attached

-Curse stays the same but does a tiny AoE in order to be buffed by shock staves

-Twilight lasts 10 seconds heals lowest health target every second and is untargetable
-Matriarch heals for a small AoE pulse when it spawns and when it desummons
-Tormentor now costs stamina and gives minor resolve

-Conjured Ward now does not stack with Annulment but scales of of spell damage as well as max magicka (same applies for Annulment)
-Hardened Ward increases the cap to 75% of max health (same for dampen magic)
-Empowered Ward now caps at 50% but provides Minor Intellect

-Bound Armor is now a toggle that gives max health~8%
-Bound Aegis now gives minor evasion with the health
-Bound Armaments stays the same

-Summon Storm Atronach stays the same
-Greater Storm Atronach stays the same
-Summon Charged Atronach is now named Summon Air Atronach and it no spins in a target location dealing physical damage without the berserk synergy and stun on arrival

Dark Magic

-Crystal Shard Stays the same
-Crystal Fragments now have a small AoE on the proc in order to be buffed by the lightning staff
-Crystal Blast now centers around the caster dealing low damage and applying Minor Maim to enemies hit as well as the caster

-Rune Prison and its morphs stay the same

-Dark Exchange and its morphs now have no heal and are instant casts but have a slight cost increase

-Daedric Mines now costs less with a snare instead of a root and have a shock damage DoT that stacks with how many are triggered with a max of 3
-Daedric Tomb can be placed at range
-Daedric Minefield now costs stamina and roots but applies no DoT

-Negate and its morph have a small cost increase

Storm Calling

-Mage's Fury now applies a small dot but increases your damage done to that target while below a certain amount of health for 7 seconds
-Endless Fury returns magicka back if the target dies
-Mage's Wrath increase the duration to 10 seconds

-Boundless Storm and its morphs stay the same

-Lightning Splash is now renamed to Lightning Charge and is a ranged single target spammable dealing shock damage
-Shocking Charge now applies the Charged debuff every third cast
-Charged Winds now has a 1 second casts time but allows for 3 casts at half cost and no cast time it now costs stamina and deals physical damage

-Surge and its morphs now heal for less in order to not be too much in conjunction with the new healing skills

-Bolt Escape stays the same
-Streak stuns enemies but has its distance reduced and cooldown removed
-Ball of Lightning now does not absorb projectiles it only removes snares and cooldown removed

-Overload now functions as a cheap burst ult dealing shock damage around the caster
-Energy Overload now restores magicka for each enemy hit
-Power Overload has slightly less damage but knocks enemies back.

Let me know what you guys think especially PvE players because I don't know that much about PvE. Thanks for reading my novel guys.

karekiz

Sounds pretty poo

Fur_like_snow

Is this a nerf sorc thread?

idk

The ideas do not sound that interesting, at least to a player who's second character rolled is a sorc.

Further, it seems to come from not being familiar with the history of the class. The Volatile Familiar used to explode when it as killed or unsummoned. It was common to have it on one bar and swap bars to make it explode. Zos tossed that design into the trash years ago.

Heck the idea with mages fury makes it useless in anything but boss fights. It would be a trash skill in most other situations. Most targets are not below 20% health for very long. The idea sounds very weak to me.

The crystal frag suggestion would make another skill useless.

I agree with @Fur_like_snow that this idea sounds like a nerf sorc thread.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Sorcs are the easiest class to play and play against in PVP currently if you ask me. They are one of the easier PVE DPS rotations, and while they arent breaking records, they are competitive (and pretty much always has been). I reject your original premise.

ItsNotLiving

idk wrote: »

The ideas do not sound that interesting, at least to a player who's second character rolled is a sorc.

Further, it seems to come from not being familiar with the history of the class. The Volatile Familiar used to explode when it as killed or unsummoned. It was common to have it on one bar and swap bars to make it explode. Zos tossed that design into the trash years ago.

Heck the idea with mages fury makes it useless in anything but boss fights. It would be a trash skill in most other situations. Most targets are not below 20% health for very long. The idea sounds very weak to me.

The crystal frag suggestion would make another skill useless.

I agree with @Fur_like_snow that this idea sounds like a nerf sorc thread.

the frag and curse changes just give you the same damage output but you use a lightning staff on a shock mage now the execute change doesnt have to be at 20 i was thinking more like 40

ItsNotLiving

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Is this a nerf sorc thread?

Most of the ideas are to change the theme to a highly mobile ranged caster and allowing more build diversity with the way shields are calculated.

idk

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

The ideas do not sound that interesting, at least to a player who's second character rolled is a sorc.

Further, it seems to come from not being familiar with the history of the class. The Volatile Familiar used to explode when it as killed or unsummoned. It was common to have it on one bar and swap bars to make it explode. Zos tossed that design into the trash years ago.

Heck the idea with mages fury makes it useless in anything but boss fights. It would be a trash skill in most other situations. Most targets are not below 20% health for very long. The idea sounds very weak to me.

The crystal frag suggestion would make another skill useless.

I agree with @Fur_like_snow that this idea sounds like a nerf sorc thread.

the frag and curse changes just give you the same damage output but you use a lightning staff on a shock mage now

The main damage from the frags is single target so it would not be buffed by the lightning staff. As such the loss of that 33% additional damage when the skill is procced would be significant.

Further, the rest of the comments hold solid as well. I agree with the others that this appears more like a nerf sroc thread.

ItsNotLiving

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The ideas do not sound that interesting, at least to a player who's second character rolled is a sorc.

Further, it seems to come from not being familiar with the history of the class. The Volatile Familiar used to explode when it as killed or unsummoned. It was common to have it on one bar and swap bars to make it explode. Zos tossed that design into the trash years ago.

Heck the idea with mages fury makes it useless in anything but boss fights. It would be a trash skill in most other situations. Most targets are not below 20% health for very long. The idea sounds very weak to me.

The crystal frag suggestion would make another skill useless.

I agree with @Fur_like_snow that this idea sounds like a nerf sorc thread.

the frag and curse changes just give you the same damage output but you use a lightning staff on a shock mage now

The main damage from the frags is single target so it would not be buffed by the lightning staff. As such the loss of that 33% additional damage when the skill is procced would be significant.

Further, the rest of the comments hold solid as well. I agree with the others that this appears more like a nerf sroc thread.

oops i meant to keep the increased damage and it would function the way meteor does where its a full AoE but the radius would be negligible so its full buffed by the lightning staff but its mainly a just for single target applications and the only "nerfs" would be the pets functioning like every other pet in the game but maybe im just dumb

idk

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

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Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Is this a nerf sorc thread?

Most of the ideas are to change the theme to a highly mobile ranged caster and allowing more build diversity with the way shields are calculated.

You just stated one of the changes is to push the sorc to less build diversity by making a lightning staff that much more appealing.

So it does not seem to be adding build diversity based on specific comments you have made.

Further, since the idea makes it so Conjured Ward now does not stack with Annulment is a further sign that the idea is to restrict build diversity. Since shields are capped by max health the addition of scaling with spell damage as a means to compensate is useless.

ItsNotLiving

You know what i think all of this is just stemming from me being bored of playing the same class for like 5 years lol

ItsNotLiving

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Is this a nerf sorc thread?

Most of the ideas are to change the theme to a highly mobile ranged caster and allowing more build diversity with the way shields are calculated.

You just stated one of the changes is to push the sorc to less build diversity by making a lightning staff that much more appealing.

So it does not seem to be adding build diversity based on specific comments you have made.

Further, since the idea makes it so Conjured Ward now does not stack with Annulment is a further sign that the idea is to restrict build diversity. Since shields are capped by max health the addition of scaling with spell damage as a means to compensate is useless.

adding a sorcerer spam skill opens up dw or 2h or you could run fire to buff youre spammable thats ST or lightning to buff your procced frag

idk

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The ideas do not sound that interesting, at least to a player who's second character rolled is a sorc.

Further, it seems to come from not being familiar with the history of the class. The Volatile Familiar used to explode when it as killed or unsummoned. It was common to have it on one bar and swap bars to make it explode. Zos tossed that design into the trash years ago.

Heck the idea with mages fury makes it useless in anything but boss fights. It would be a trash skill in most other situations. Most targets are not below 20% health for very long. The idea sounds very weak to me.

The crystal frag suggestion would make another skill useless.

I agree with @Fur_like_snow that this idea sounds like a nerf sorc thread.

the frag and curse changes just give you the same damage output but you use a lightning staff on a shock mage now

The main damage from the frags is single target so it would not be buffed by the lightning staff. As such the loss of that 33% additional damage when the skill is procced would be significant.

Further, the rest of the comments hold solid as well. I agree with the others that this appears more like a nerf sroc thread.

oops i meant to keep the increased damage and it would function the way meteor does where its a full AoE but the radius would be negligible so its full buffed by the lightning staff but its mainly a just for single target applications and the only "nerfs" would be the pets functioning like every other pet in the game but maybe im just dumb

It still looks like a nerf.

Also, the sorc pets do work like other pets in the game. Look at the Warden Bear. It remains unit it is killed. In PvP and vMA the magicka morph has it automatically spawn if it is killed (cannot be killed in group instances).

In other words, thee are different ways pets work.

Since we are on pets, the clanfear suggestion takes away the ideal tank heal for sorc tanks.

The matriarch as it works now is the main reason sorc healers can hold up well in PvE groups since they have a solid, reliable, burst heal that is always ready. Instead, they have to cast the matriarch every time they need to use a burst heal and hope the targets do not die before the get it cast. If the cast time is to be removed it would look extremely silly that it spawns and disappears just as fast.

I will mention again my previous comment about the volatile familiar. Its original design had it explode when it was uncommon or killed. Zos tossed that into the trash years ago and instead choose a damage profile that was more constant and probably easier to balanced.

So yes, these ideas would axe the pet builds as you said was your goal in the other thread. Many of the ideas seem to axe the entire class as we have suggested.

idk

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

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idk wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Is this a nerf sorc thread?

Most of the ideas are to change the theme to a highly mobile ranged caster and allowing more build diversity with the way shields are calculated.

You just stated one of the changes is to push the sorc to less build diversity by making a lightning staff that much more appealing.

So it does not seem to be adding build diversity based on specific comments you have made.

Further, since the idea makes it so Conjured Ward now does not stack with Annulment is a further sign that the idea is to restrict build diversity. Since shields are capped by max health the addition of scaling with spell damage as a means to compensate is useless.

adding a sorcerer spam skill opens up dw or 2h or you could run fire to buff youre spammable thats ST or lightning to buff your procced frag

What sorc spam skill? Sorcs do not have a class spam skill and none are listed above.

Also, it is not the case that the ideas make DW and 2H useful on a magicka build. Their basic attacks (read LA attacks) are weak on a magicka build. That is the a big reason they are not used in to PvE dps builds.

And still, the shield change is a significant restriction with zero benefits for sorcs.

SO my comment that the suggestion makes sorc builds more restriction hold up solid.

Dracane

Most of these things I do not like. Actually few of them.
Sorcerer is okay right now apart from a few overtuned and undertuned abilities.

Pets should be untargetable and only cost 1 slot, but are changed into duration summons like most others. The twilight heal is way too strong as well. I think Sorcerer should return to a class that relies on shields and small healing over time in the form of surge, blood magic and dark exchange to heal. Which would also enable to restore shields to what they once were.

Ball of lightning should be removed completely and exchanged with a bolt escape morph that either has a bigger range or a small amount of % damage reduction after teleporting.

Mage's Fury must be reworked to deal with the killstealing problem. Either have it function like any other execute or turn it into a spammable that does a bit of extra damage against low health targets.

Bound Armaments (the stamina morph) is a pretty cool ability. Gives good passive bonuses and an interesting active proc. Bound Aegis however is pretty useless due to the short duration of its buff and the fact that it does not work well with the sorcerer kit since blocking does nothing to damage directed at shields. I would have this create a damage shield equal to 3% of your magicka every few seconds upon activation or have it grant minor sorcery for 20 seconds.

Hardened Ward is one of the most nerfed abilities in the game. I think it at least needs a serious cost reduction.
Rebate has to be amongst the trashiest class passives. Either have it return a small amount of magicka when a pet deals damage or make it something available to non pet sorcs as well.

I would also like that sorcerer becomes what Dragonknights are for fire and wardens for ice: Give them a synergy with the concussion status effect by augmenting the Energized passive. Dks get ressource back when proccing burning and wardens get crit damage when proccing chilled. To tackle the magicka problems sorcerer has in pve, sorcerer as well could restore some magicka upon proccing concussed or at least have them deal more damage with concussion effects. Energized could also be brought to the same level as wardens and have it grant 10% shock and physical damage instead of only 5%.

katorga

Sounds like a sarcastic "nerf sorc" post to me.

Other wise, sorcerers are fine. Unless you run into a really good one, they are average in pvp. If you run into a good one, they probably would have tuned you up on any class. If you lose to an average one, well that is entirely on you. The same goes for stamina sorc. A really good one will eat you alive, but they are completely outclassed by stamina Necromancer and Warden, classes that were designed with stamina in mind from the start.

They are average magicka dps, average healers, and weak tanks in pve.

Kittytravel

Just some advice; when you make a thread like this you shouldn't include anything that "stays the same". It just clogs up your thread and doesn't get any of your points across and distracts from your statement.

Overall the changes look uninteresting and really vague. Terms like "low damage" "small AoE pulse" "small cost increase" all spell out unhelpful terms that don't give any scope to any of these changes. 30% less damage than the current ability? 5% more cost? Numbers are far more helpful in threads proposing reworks.

Lastly...
Twilight lasts 10 seconds heals lowest health target every second and is untargetable
-Matriarch heals for a small AoE pulse when it spawns and when it desummons
-Tormentor now costs stamina and gives minor resolve

This completely destroys the heal sorc advantage being that they currently have one of the highest if not the highest burst heal in the game. Matriarch is a massive staple for the heal sorc kit and the burst it provides is one the large reasons they even exist as viable healers.

Burtan

NO

Dracane

katorga wrote: »

Sounds like a sarcastic "nerf sorc" post to me.

Other wise, sorcerers are fine. Unless you run into a really good one, they are average in pvp. If you run into a good one, they probably would have tuned you up on any class. If you lose to an average one, well that is entirely on you. The same goes for stamina sorc. A really good one will eat you alive, but they are completely outclassed by stamina Necromancer and Warden, classes that were designed with stamina in mind from the start.

They are average magicka dps, average healers, and weak tanks in pve.

Yet still, they are by no means in need of a complete rework. Sorcerer used to suffer a lot from a lacking identity and being the most dependant on weapon abilities of all magicka classes. I think Sorcerer has a good class identity now and only needs adjustments like any class.

Neloth

Honestly - terrible ideas

MagSorc is one of the few remaining mag spec, which are completive in solo pvp when fighting against stamina builds, please leave it alone

All this stuff "force magsorcs to use lighting staves" - pls no. We already have 2 classes which are forced to use lightning staves (Magden, macro), and they both are considered to be the worst for solo PvP (what a coincidence).

I also butthurt from "more stamina morphs". Look at magnecro, it has stamina morphs for (almost?) any dmg skill, resulting into the class being a walking destro skillline in pvp

In the meantime, it's stamina counterpart is №1 PvP spec, since additionally to stamina class toolkit it has access to cool weapon skills, while macro has access to elemental blockade, reach and drain (lul)

tl;dr If you want to test your changes - go solo play magnecro in Cyrodiil and come back to report your impressions

Dracane

Neloth wrote: »

Honestly - terrible ideas

MagSorc is one of the few remaining mag spec, which are completive in solo pvp when fighting against stamina builds, please leave it alone

All this stuff "force magsorcs to use lighting staves" - pls no. We already have 2 classes which are forced to use lightning staves (Magden, macro), and they both are considered to be the worst for solo PvP (what a coincidence).

I also butthurt from "more stamina morphs". Look at magnecro, it has stamina morphs for (almost?) any dmg skill, resulting into the class being a walking destro skillline in pvp

In the meantime, it's stamina counterpart is №1 PvP spec, since additionally to stamina class toolkit it has access to cool weapon skills, while macro has access to elemental blockade, reach and drain (lul)

tl;dr If you want to test your changes - go solo play magnecro in Cyrodiil and come back to report your impressions

Magicka Sorcerer might eventually meet the same fate as more and more of its abilities cater to the stamina overlords. And those whiners have no clue what a top tier class stamina sorcerer already is in no cp pvp with the correct build and playstyle. I dread to see it buffed further. Meanwhile Magsorc is a complete pushover in most cases.

Yet still, Necromancer is off even worse at least when it comes to its offensive kit. Stamina Necromancer does it all better. Stamina classes have several top weapon lines available with abilities and passives almost exclusively balanced around pvp. While magicka is stuck with 1 weapon line of mediocre and replacable abilities and mostly niche or pve passives.

Destruction staff is in need of major buffs to help out all magicka specs. Probably not even Necromancers and Wardens would have much use of it if it wasn't for the master staff. This weapon pretty much keeps the entire skill line on life support.

Allowing penetrating magic to work with all abilities while holding a staff and changing Destruction Expert to provide some fix magicka regeneration instead of magicka return on kills would go a long way of making this a worthy weapon for magicka builds. Even if just as a stat stick. Allowing light and heavy attacks to produce associated elemental effects would also be nice. I never understood why this was not possible. I personally do not use a single destruction staff ability anymore.

Wolf81

The only change I want for sorc is to allow their pet summons to remain active with their skills on only a single weapon bar..
This could extend to warden as well honestly.

martijnlv40

Wolf81 wrote: »

The only change I want for sorc is to allow their pet summons to remain active with their skills on only a single weapon bar..
This could extend to warden as well honestly.

Although this seems fun, this would make pets way too strong. As it is, a non-petsorc is not worth running. With this change it becomes even more broken. The petsorcs are in a good place now however, so I'd say that the non-petsorc needs a buff.

Actually, I'm gonna make a thread about that now.

Neloth

martijnlv40 wrote: »

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Wolf81 wrote: »

The only change I want for sorc is to allow their pet summons to remain active with their skills on only a single weapon bar..
This could extend to warden as well honestly.

Although this seems fun, this would make pets way too strong. As it is, a non-petsorc is not worth running. With this change it becomes even more broken. The petsorcs are in a good place now however, so I'd say that the non-petsorc needs a buff.

Actually, I'm gonna make a thread about that now.

all this pet vs non-pet sorcerers nonsense is caused by initial bad design of pets. They take too much bar space, leave less place for other active abilities, some people consider it not fun to play and start building non-petsorcs

once sorc pets are made similar to necromancer summons, the "pet vs no-pet" problem will disappear on it's own

no-pet sorcs will be like no-dot DK, and it's fine

Rahar

I like the ideas of changing how pets function. They always felt pretty annoying to use because they're kind of a set and forget ability that annoys other people almost as much as it annoys you to keep them alive and active, and they use valuable double-bar space on a class that's already gasping for more. Making them more like modern necro pets would be an interesting mix up to breathe life back into those skills. I'd probably try them out again, anyway. I don't agree with all the changes on the pet front, but that's what caught my eye.

I also -- and I said this before in your other thread -- think that changing the way shields scale needs to happen. You don't have to make them exclusive or buff their size, just make it so that if I build spell damage I can get the same size of shield like I'd gone max mag. That'd be really cool.

The rest of the changes I don't like. Adding an AoE to frags seems arbitrary and doesn't vibe with sorc's current specialization (single target burst), and both curse and frags have AoE options in their morphs already. Why not change those? You also made our terrible execute even worse, somehow, and nerfed mines, which is amusing to me because no one uses that skill already. Additionally, changing streak and dark deal with what you suggested would be catastrophically bad for the class, and not even just magsorc. Just leave the way those abilities work alone. They don't need fixing.

preevious

It seem a bit random.

Nothing stays quite the same, and everything changes a lot?
Why no play another class instead of destroying one?

Dracane

Rahar wrote: »

I like the ideas of changing how pets function. They always felt pretty annoying to use because they're kind of a set and forget ability that annoys other people almost as much as it annoys you to keep them alive and active, and they use valuable double-bar space on a class that's already gasping for more. Making them more like modern necro pets would be an interesting mix up to breathe life back into those skills. I'd probably try them out again, anyway. I don't agree with all the changes on the pet front, but that's what caught my eye.

I also -- and I said this before in your other thread -- think that changing the way shields scale needs to happen. You don't have to make them exclusive or buff their size, just make it so that if I build spell damage I can get the same size of shield like I'd gone max mag. That'd be really cool.

The rest of the changes I don't like. Adding an AoE to frags seems arbitrary and doesn't vibe with sorc's current specialization (single target burst), and both curse and frags have AoE options in their morphs already. Why not change those? You also made our terrible execute even worse, somehow, and nerfed mines, which is amusing to me because no one uses that skill already. Additionally, changing streak and dark deal with what you suggested would be catastrophically bad for the class, and not even just magsorc. Just leave the way those abilities work alone. They don't need fixing.

Letting shields scale with spell damage will just remove the last unique mechanic sorcerer has or at least streamline yet another thing. Then, every class will be built exactly the same. Just stack spell damage since magicka is vastly inferior to spell damage. It would completely remove any reason to even add magicka to builds.

This is something that should never change. Pets scaling with spell damage is something I could understand, but even there I am a trifle choosey. I hope this never happens.

Rahar

Dracane wrote: »

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Rahar wrote: »

I like the ideas of changing how pets function. They always felt pretty annoying to use because they're kind of a set and forget ability that annoys other people almost as much as it annoys you to keep them alive and active, and they use valuable double-bar space on a class that's already gasping for more. Making them more like modern necro pets would be an interesting mix up to breathe life back into those skills. I'd probably try them out again, anyway. I don't agree with all the changes on the pet front, but that's what caught my eye.

I also -- and I said this before in your other thread -- think that changing the way shields scale needs to happen. You don't have to make them exclusive or buff their size, just make it so that if I build spell damage I can get the same size of shield like I'd gone max mag. That'd be really cool.

The rest of the changes I don't like. Adding an AoE to frags seems arbitrary and doesn't vibe with sorc's current specialization (single target burst), and both curse and frags have AoE options in their morphs already. Why not change those? You also made our terrible execute even worse, somehow, and nerfed mines, which is amusing to me because no one uses that skill already. Additionally, changing streak and dark deal with what you suggested would be catastrophically bad for the class, and not even just magsorc. Just leave the way those abilities work alone. They don't need fixing.

Letting shields scale with spell damage will just remove the last unique mechanic sorcerer has or at least streamline yet another thing. Then, every class will be built exactly the same. Just stack spell damage since magicka is vastly inferior to spell damage. It would completely remove any reason to even add magicka to builds.

This is something that should never change. Pets scaling with spell damage is something I could understand, but even there I am a trifle choosey. I hope this never happens.

So you're okay with the class having little to no build diversity? Personally, I hate it. I really don't like only being able to choose between a measly 4 or so sets. I understand that its something unique to magsorc, but is that actually a good thing? Consistent mechanics make a good game -- ALL other spells that cost magicka tend to scale with spell power -- and shields are extremely unintuitive thanks to the confusing way health and magicka fight eachother for the right to set the cap. Why are shields the exception? I've spent hours trying to maximize shield size in a build editor only for it to come out completely different in the live game. They're wildly confusing, even for someone who has played the class for years.

Dracane

Rahar wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

I like the ideas of changing how pets function. They always felt pretty annoying to use because they're kind of a set and forget ability that annoys other people almost as much as it annoys you to keep them alive and active, and they use valuable double-bar space on a class that's already gasping for more. Making them more like modern necro pets would be an interesting mix up to breathe life back into those skills. I'd probably try them out again, anyway. I don't agree with all the changes on the pet front, but that's what caught my eye.

I also -- and I said this before in your other thread -- think that changing the way shields scale needs to happen. You don't have to make them exclusive or buff their size, just make it so that if I build spell damage I can get the same size of shield like I'd gone max mag. That'd be really cool.

The rest of the changes I don't like. Adding an AoE to frags seems arbitrary and doesn't vibe with sorc's current specialization (single target burst), and both curse and frags have AoE options in their morphs already. Why not change those? You also made our terrible execute even worse, somehow, and nerfed mines, which is amusing to me because no one uses that skill already. Additionally, changing streak and dark deal with what you suggested would be catastrophically bad for the class, and not even just magsorc. Just leave the way those abilities work alone. They don't need fixing.

Letting shields scale with spell damage will just remove the last unique mechanic sorcerer has or at least streamline yet another thing. Then, every class will be built exactly the same. Just stack spell damage since magicka is vastly inferior to spell damage. It would completely remove any reason to even add magicka to builds.

This is something that should never change. Pets scaling with spell damage is something I could understand, but even there I am a trifle choosey. I hope this never happens.

So you're okay with the class having little to no build diversity? Personally, I hate it. I really don't like only being able to choose between a measly 4 or so sets. I understand that its something unique to magsorc, but is that actually a good thing? Consistent mechanics make a good game -- ALL other spells that cost magicka tend to scale with spell power -- and shields are extremely unintuitive thanks to the confusing way health and magicka fight eachother for the right to set the cap. Why are shields the exception? I've spent hours trying to maximize shield size in a build editor only for it to come out completely different in the live game. They're wildly confusing, even for someone who has played the class for years.

I find them not confusing at all. Using build editors for anything is folly in my opinion. You can get an idea, but I have not yet seen any build editor prognosis that was true for my live tooltip. So I prefer getting the real numbers myself and shields are very straight forward and easier to calculate than anything else. They are literally a fix percentage of your maximum magicka.

Magicka scaling is a big part of the Sorcerer identity for me and I like it. Magicka builds simply lose when it comes to spell damage stacking. Stamina/Weapon damage is a lot more potent since stamina weapons have more base damage, medium armor grants modifiers and stamina sets are generally very heavy in the weapon damage aspect. Magicka stacking is the only unique thing magicka builds have and we have abilities or passives that grant us % for magicka. Whereas nobody really has any modifiers for spell damage.

To me, magicka builds were always supposed to stack magicka and stamina builds to stack weapon damage. This is hardly exclusive to sorcerer. Look at Wardens and Nightblades with their magicka %s.

Celestro

Dracane wrote: »

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Neloth wrote: »

Honestly - terrible ideas

MagSorc is one of the few remaining mag spec, which are completive in solo pvp when fighting against stamina builds, please leave it alone

All this stuff "force magsorcs to use lighting staves" - pls no. We already have 2 classes which are forced to use lightning staves (Magden, macro), and they both are considered to be the worst for solo PvP (what a coincidence).

I also butthurt from "more stamina morphs". Look at magnecro, it has stamina morphs for (almost?) any dmg skill, resulting into the class being a walking destro skillline in pvp

In the meantime, it's stamina counterpart is №1 PvP spec, since additionally to stamina class toolkit it has access to cool weapon skills, while macro has access to elemental blockade, reach and drain (lul)

tl;dr If you want to test your changes - go solo play magnecro in Cyrodiil and come back to report your impressions

Magicka Sorcerer might eventually meet the same fate as more and more of its abilities cater to the stamina overlords. And those whiners have no clue what a top tier class stamina sorcerer already is in no cp pvp with the correct build and playstyle. I dread to see it buffed further. Meanwhile Magsorc is a complete pushover in most cases.

Yet still, Necromancer is off even worse at least when it comes to its offensive kit. Stamina Necromancer does it all better. Stamina classes have several top weapon lines available with abilities and passives almost exclusively balanced around pvp. While magicka is stuck with 1 weapon line of mediocre and replacable abilities and mostly niche or pve passives.

Destruction staff is in need of major buffs to help out all magicka specs. Probably not even Necromancers and Wardens would have much use of it if it wasn't for the master staff. This weapon pretty much keeps the entire skill line on life support.

Allowing penetrating magic to work with all abilities while holding a staff and changing Destruction Expert to provide some fix magicka regeneration instead of magicka return on kills would go a long way of making this a worthy weapon for magicka builds. Even if just as a stat stick. Allowing light and heavy attacks to produce associated elemental effects would also be nice. I never understood why this was not possible. I personally do not use a single destruction staff ability anymore.

Er, might I ask what abilities of sorcs have been taken away from Mag and given to Stam? Not sure if you're perhaps referring to something from a long time ago but the only recent skill that was changed specifically to "cater" more to stamsorc was clannfear, which was (and still is really) a tank-oriented ability.

I would be inclined to agree, as I do with much of what has been stated for sorcs in regards to the suggested rework, but that in particular is going well over my head. Especially since what is generally asked for when it comes to stam morphs for stamsorcs are an Air Atronach and a stam version of Crystal Blast, both of which would replace morphs generally not used compared to the other Magicka morphs. Not much being taken away really... There are other suggestions including making a Stam morph of Curses (which never made sense to me anyway) but as far as I'm concerned, those are the only two that are 'necessary'. Stamsorc only has two class abilities that deal Physical Damage (BA being a recentish change too) and an ultimate isn't one, which isn't the case for every other class. I feel like in PvP that change isn't gonna be too much different than what the Greater Storm Atronach does (especially if the stun on arrival would be removed). Same for a stam version of Crystal Blast, which may or may not replace Dizzying Swing in PvP, but at least it would proc Exploitation for group play in general so they're actually bringing something else to the table.

If those are changed, nothing else would need to be changed for stam really. Well, there's still the matter of the passives but welp. (Also wtf never knew Piercing Cold's bonus got doubled. And yet Energized...)

Dracane

Celestro wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dracane wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Honestly - terrible ideas

MagSorc is one of the few remaining mag spec, which are completive in solo pvp when fighting against stamina builds, please leave it alone

All this stuff "force magsorcs to use lighting staves" - pls no. We already have 2 classes which are forced to use lightning staves (Magden, macro), and they both are considered to be the worst for solo PvP (what a coincidence).

I also butthurt from "more stamina morphs". Look at magnecro, it has stamina morphs for (almost?) any dmg skill, resulting into the class being a walking destro skillline in pvp

In the meantime, it's stamina counterpart is №1 PvP spec, since additionally to stamina class toolkit it has access to cool weapon skills, while macro has access to elemental blockade, reach and drain (lul)

tl;dr If you want to test your changes - go solo play magnecro in Cyrodiil and come back to report your impressions

Magicka Sorcerer might eventually meet the same fate as more and more of its abilities cater to the stamina overlords. And those whiners have no clue what a top tier class stamina sorcerer already is in no cp pvp with the correct build and playstyle. I dread to see it buffed further. Meanwhile Magsorc is a complete pushover in most cases.

Yet still, Necromancer is off even worse at least when it comes to its offensive kit. Stamina Necromancer does it all better. Stamina classes have several top weapon lines available with abilities and passives almost exclusively balanced around pvp. While magicka is stuck with 1 weapon line of mediocre and replacable abilities and mostly niche or pve passives.

Destruction staff is in need of major buffs to help out all magicka specs. Probably not even Necromancers and Wardens would have much use of it if it wasn't for the master staff. This weapon pretty much keeps the entire skill line on life support.

Allowing penetrating magic to work with all abilities while holding a staff and changing Destruction Expert to provide some fix magicka regeneration instead of magicka return on kills would go a long way of making this a worthy weapon for magicka builds. Even if just as a stat stick. Allowing light and heavy attacks to produce associated elemental effects would also be nice. I never understood why this was not possible. I personally do not use a single destruction staff ability anymore.

Er, might I ask what abilities of sorcs have been taken away from Mag and given to Stam? Not sure if you're perhaps referring to something from a long time ago but the only recent skill that was changed specifically to "cater" more to stamsorc was clannfear, which was (and still is really) a tank-oriented ability.

I would be inclined to agree, as I do with much of what has been stated for sorcs in regards to the suggested rework, but that in particular is going well over my head. Especially since what is generally asked for when it comes to stam morphs for stamsorcs are an Air Atronach and a stam version of Crystal Blast, both of which would replace morphs generally not used compared to the other Magicka morphs. Not much being taken away really... There are other suggestions including making a Stam morph of Curses (which never made sense to me anyway) but as far as I'm concerned, those are the only two that are 'necessary'. Stamsorc only has two class abilities that deal Physical Damage (BA being a recentish change too) and an ultimate isn't one, which isn't the case for every other class. I feel like in PvP that change isn't gonna be too much different than what the Greater Storm Atronach does (especially if the stun on arrival would be removed). Same for a stam version of Crystal Blast, which may or may not replace Dizzying Swing in PvP, but at least it would proc Exploitation for group play in general so they're actually bringing something else to the table.

If those are changed, nothing else would need to be changed for stam really. Well, there's still the matter of the passives but welp. (Also wtf never knew Piercing Cold's bonus got doubled. And yet Energized...)

I know about these suggestions and that would barely interfere with Magsorcs. Although you would be surprised how many sorcerers use crystal blast. From my observations more than crystal fragments. It might not be a perfect tactic, but many like to use it nontheless and you would take away from them. And just as many use the AoE Atronach and Daedric Prey. These abilities are not nearly as underused as you think and removing them just to create another overpowered stamina class... I'd rather not suffer it.

I do not understand why every class must cater to stamina. Why can't some classes prefer magicka? It is a sorcerer and not a warrior. Yes yes, I know, lore and stuff.

My expression was rather dramatic. I meant; who knows what ZoS decides to take away from Magsorc other than those suggestions.