Make Rapid Maneuver activate like a Synergy

Extraegis

When you get on your mount make Rapid Maneuver pop up like synergies do and allow it to be activated by pressing the synergy button or buttons or similar keybind as long as you have a skill point for it.

That way you don't have to mess with Add-ons that swap skills and sometimes get stuck because of combat. And best of all IT WOULD WORK FOR CONSOLES.

And you could still put Rapid Maneuver on your bar if that's your thing which turning it into a passive which I've seen suggested wouldn't allow you to do (not to mention ZOS would have to rework the Alliance skill lines again to do so).

I think a Rapid Maneuver synergy type prompt is the best solution for easy access to Rapid Maneuver that works for all platforms. Thoughts?

Somnilux

Or better yet, just remove major gallop from the game/from rapid manuevers, and add in a passive in the assault line that gives 15/30% mounted speed.

Give the support line a passive to increase the effectiveness of siege and keep repair kits.

Extraegis

Sure, a passive could work too. The only thing about the passive is that some players slot rapid maneuvers and that would mess with their build. I personally don't but trying to think of the least invasive way to make things easier.

As a side note RM is so easy to get. Making it a passive would force players to level up the alliance skill lines more than they probably would like. For PVP players that is no problem, for PVE players that just want the speed boost it would be a barrier. Honestly, RM is used in both PVP and PVE everywhere because of the add-on and I'm not entirely sure it needs to be an Alliance skill anymore. But like with Vigor, we are getting into a bigger discussion about skill/class rebalancing that ZOS should fix.

tsaescishoeshiner

But how would we launch people into the abyss in vAA by giving them an unexpected speed boost?

Extraegis

lol

kringled_1

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

But how would we launch people into the abyss in vAA by giving them an unexpected speed boost?

Twisting path is my preferred way to give other people unexpected speed boosts.

VaranisArano

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

But how would we launch people into the abyss in vAA by giving them an unexpected speed boost?

Its also great fun to wait until your PVP raid is heading up the stairs to jump off the outer wall of a keep, then hit rapids and watch as someone fails to make the switchback on the stairs. Or laugh when I'm the one who misses the turn and goes flying off thanks to someone else's well timed rapids.

Wolf_Eye

Extraegis wrote: »

Sure, a passive could work too. The only thing about the passive is that some players slot rapid maneuvers and that would mess with their build. I personally don't but trying to think of the least invasive way to make things easier.

As a side note RM is so easy to get. Making it a passive would force players to level up the alliance skill lines more than they probably would like. For PVP players that is no problem, for PVE players that just want the speed boost it would be a barrier. Honestly, RM is used in both PVP and PVE everywhere because of the add-on and I'm not entirely sure it needs to be an Alliance skill anymore. But like with Vigor, we are getting into a bigger discussion about skill/class rebalancing that ZOS should fix.

People who roleplay would also hate having their control over Rapids taken away when you make it a passive.

And even if you don't roleplay, I for one would think that you should have control over your horse's speed and choose whether or not to use Rapids depending on the situation you're in. For example, you saw something interesting and you want to slow down a bit to check it out. Having Rapids as a passive would take this control away and make it harder to slow down.

EDIT: In other words, I like your idea of a synergy much much better than having Rapids as a passive.

Versispellis

I've thought for a while that they should implement a mounted skill bar. You could slot rapids in there and whatever combat openers you like to use, for those that like the instant dismount of a skill cast. Yes, it would give people room for a limited use of skills that don't normally fit on their bars, but it wouldn't break the game. Or, hear me out: a riding skill line to accompany that bar.

Extraegis

@Wolf_Eye true, RP is reason to keep RM a skill.

@Versispellis A riding skill line! What a neat idea! I like the idea of a mounted skill bar too!

Versispellis

@Extraegis I'm glad someone likes the idea! I think if it happened, major gallop and shadow rider (from the Dark Brotherhood line) should move there. I think there should be at least one free space for a combat opener, too. I thought a mounted loot/activation would be a good one. It'd have to be a channel that requires you to stay near the node/corpse/container for as long as it'd require you to loot/activate things normally. Another idea I had was an ability to sacrifice some of your own stamina or magicka and give stamina to your mount (more useful for lower level toons, obviously). Do you have any ideas?

relentless_turnip

Somnilux wrote: »

Or better yet, just remove major gallop from the game/from rapid manuevers, and add in a passive in the assault line that gives 15/30% mounted speed.

Give the support line a passive to increase the effectiveness of siege and keep repair kits.

I like this👍

virtus753

Interesting thought. A couple of initial questions/concerns, mainly revolving around technical issues:

I haven’t tried recently, but wouldn’t activating a synergy while mounted automatically dismount you? Even if they made this synergy a "rule-breaker" in that regard, synergies are much more finicky on a gamepad, since they require pressing two ability buttons at once, and not infrequently the game will interpret that at one ability or the other rather than the synergy. That means you could easily get dismounted instead of activating Rapids, which then of course require getting back on the mount to try again. I’m not sure I’d want to rely on chancy things like that any more than necessary. Rebinding would also be prohibitive, in my view, since controllers already have comparatively limited buttons and combinations. Finding ones that don’t overlap with abilities (to avoid the previous scenario) would be difficult, especially when the game refuses to accept a lot of valid combinations. For example, the game does not register holding block and pressing another button during the rebinding process, even though the devs somehow programmed that in for roll dodge. Many other valid combinations, such as long or short presses, are likewise not recognized without the more nuanced rebinding of another program like Steam. I don't think a synergy would be a viable replacement for a skill in gamepad mode until and unless the issues regarding technical reliability are addressed.

Second, more a curiosity: How would this work on foot? While Rapid Maneuvers is often used for riding, it is not exclusive to riding. How would the game know when to make the synergy available if we wanted to use this for Major Expedition? If that would require slotting the skill, then one could argue the same about the riding situation. Alternatively, if the synergy were always available, then it would likely interfere with activating other synergies, both those in combat and the blade of woe and vampire feeding mechanics. I would not want to see M.E. removed from the skill without a comparable replacement, as Rapids are easily accessible for all characters from level 10 with effectively zero combat required. Skill-based M.E. is not otherwise available to a third of classes without 1) being a vampire; 2) running dual wield; or 3) investing in and grinding the Psijic line, which is pay-walled. Alternatively, give those two classes class access to M.E., and then I wouldn't mind it being dropped from Rapids quite as much.

I appreciate that you have all platforms in mind here. I’m just not sure synergies are reliable enough to be a solution. Ideally I'd like to see ZOS figure out how to implement adding Rapids automatically while mounted, a la the add-on. The idea of a whole dedicated riding bar is intriguing and is something we know they should be able to do from Overload and Werewolf.

Edited to clarify M.E. = Major Expedition

idk

For RM to work as a synergy it would require slotting the skill on the bar which defeats the premise of the entire idea.

Further, we cannot use synergies while mounted so we would have to dismount to use the synergy. RM as it currently is works better as we can use it while still mounted and moving.

Extraegis

@virtus753 so to your first question. Yes a mounted synergy is unprecedented. It doesn't necessarily have to be a synergy but rather a prompt that appears when mounted.

To your concern about pressing two buttons at the same time I don't have a solution to that really. I mostly play with a controller on PC and don't really have issues with activating synergies very often. I think issues often arise because of zoning. Multiple synergies in the same area or the game has trouble seeing you as in the area to prompt the synergy.

On to your next question my proposed change really is to address RM while mounted. To use the skill on foot for ME you will have to have it slotted. I am really just suggesting to do what Fast Ride or Assist Riding already does but to do it with a prompt instead of a skill swap. That way we don't run into those issues where the skill gets stuck because of combat and also the convenience of using RM in this way is available to console or gamepad users. I am not proposing to have the prompt always available.

It would literally play out like this.

You have a skill point in RM. You mount on your horse, a prompt appears, "press X (or X + B for gamepad) for Major Gallop", you press it and the FX appear, when MG expires the prompt reappears and you use it or ignore it. That is it. The prompt only appears when mounted otherwise you can slot RM and use it like normal.

If you think that just having a skill point in RM to use it without it being slotted seems broken please realize this is already exactly what is happening when we use these RM add-ons.

@idk I am suggesting a prompt similar to a synergy. I'm sure ZOS could get around that limitation if they wanted to.

volkeswagon

yes. I always use rapids when i hop on my horse so that would save a skill slot on my bar

idk

Extraegis wrote: »

I am suggesting a prompt similar to a synergy. I'm sure ZOS could get around that limitation if they wanted to.

True, since we used to have to dismount to use RM when the game launched.

However, where the logic fails is we need a source for the synergy which, ironically, requires slotting the skill. It would make no sense, and be completely out of line with everything in the game, for us to have synergy from a skill without having the skill slotted.

It has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is not thin air.

Extraegis

Yes it would be unique I agree. My point of view is when there is a quality of life feature that almost all of the player base is using an add-on for it seems like the devs should look at that and say, "Hey, the players clearly want this feature maybe we should add it in?"

Or they should look at why the add-on is so popular and ask themselves if they need to rebalance something, like in this particular situation the mount system and mount speed.

This was just my idea for addressing what I see as a clear feature desired by the community, and something console players have been missing out on.

It wouldn't even be the first time ZOS added in a feature that add-ons previously took care of. Buff timers come to mind.

Wolf_Eye

Extraegis wrote: »

It wouldn't even be the first time ZOS added in a feature that add-ons previously took care of. Buff timers come to mind.

Buff timers haven't always been part of settings? I wouldn't know, since I only joined last year; I was just curious.

Extraegis

It was added with Morrowind.

Hotdog_23

Just add major gallop to sprint function now by default. And remove it from rapids. You want it activate sprint as you already normally do. For what ever reason you don’t want it then don’t sprint to activate it. Be a nice gift to console users since PC has a add-on that does it for them.

Be safe and have fun.

Extraegis

@Hotdog_23 interesting idea. It seems at that point ZOS should just increase the mount speed in the game. My worry is that ZOS has no incentive to do that. As things are now experiencing slow mount probably drives enough people to buy speed upgrades from the crown store. I mean it has to be by design right? Otherwise what other explanation is there for a horse at base speed to be the same speed as a character sprinting on foot?

Zyrudin

If Rapid Maneuver gave other players a synergy opportunity to get the speed buff, we'd finally see a a good use for the constant usage of this skill (which is the Undaunted synergy returns) being used in PvE Dungeon content by players racing in front of everybody pulling mobs...

Lamiai

Somnilux wrote: »

Or better yet, just remove major gallop from the game/from rapid manuevers, and add in a passive in the assault line that gives 15/30% mounted speed.

Give the support line a passive to increase the effectiveness of siege and keep repair kits.

Great idea along with a well needed change to the AvA skill lines, so I can bet my life that it will never ever happen.

Versispellis

Couldn't they also just dedicate one button to major gallop while mounted once you've unlocked it?

I just had that thought.

MajThorax

I was thinking about that yesterday when I was watching Fengrush swapping manually vigor and maneuver all the time. When I pvp I have Fast Ride addon enabled but if I enter combat before I dismount, maneuver stays on bar. Devs should pay attention to this thread.

Extraegis

@Zyrudin didn't think about the undaunted passive. When I posted this idea on Reddit there was some pushback from PVP players saying that being able to give Major Expedition to players on foot would break PVP. Now if you just mean it gives Major Gallop to others that are mounted that how I envision this "synergy" to work.

@Lamiai I personally feel like a passive would work but there would be some pushback from players that slot RM. But the repair kits idea I feel everyone could get behind. Unfortunately, your lack of faith in ZOS is not entirely unfounded.

Zyrudin

Extraegis wrote: »

@Zyrudin didn't think about the undaunted passive. When I posted this idea on Reddit there was some pushback from PVP players saying that being able to give Major Expedition to players on foot would break PVP. Now if you just mean it gives Major Gallop to others that are mounted that how I envision this "synergy" to work.

@Lamiai I personally feel like a passive would work but there would be some pushback from players that slot RM. But the repair kits idea I feel everyone could get behind. Unfortunately, your lack of faith in ZOS is not entirely unfounded.

Heck, it could give Major Expedition on mounted only, as long as there was a synergy return anyway if unmounted. My comment was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek reference to dungeon runners who slot rapid maneuver just to race around ahead of the group (as if that actually made everyone finish the dungeon quicker, if that was their intention).

So, at least, they could give a synergy opportunity as they spam it on content where it makes no sense to be used.

Extraegis

@Versispellis yes exactly, that's what my vision is essentially and just have a prompt to tell you what that button is. But if you mean have a dedicated hotkey you could configure in settings. IDK maybe, are there enough bavailable keys in that scenario?

@MajThorax slotting unslotting or the use of add-ons. It is something that everyone is doing all the time and it just makes you think, "maybe this should be easier? Why do we need an add-on to do something every "x" seconds I play this game?" And also, "There is a whole population of the player base that is left out of this same convenience of "free speed"?"

Extraegis

@Zyrudin lol. How many dungeons let you mount. Heck, I was running Volenfell over and over to get the gold lead from the last boss and it didn't even occur to me to mount. When I realized you could it was still easier just to stay on foot! So funny! Mount go 3 feet unmount. Kill mob. Mount go 3 feet unmount.

Katahdin

Should just be added as part of battle spirit in Cyrodiil.