Why do we have Magicka based Melee weapons?

UGotBenched91

Every time I get a melee Magicka based weapon I think, “oh, this sounds cool.” Then I sell or discard it because it’s useless. Why do we have these items in game when some of the best skills can’t be used with them?

I heard at one time there was a battle mage class planned. Maybe that’s why?

Taleof2Cities

I think you're going to have to elaborate more on what you mean, @UGotBenched91.

If you're lobbying for a magicka melee weapon line, then that's a topic that's been rehashed in the forums countless times ...

Raisin

I'm assuming you mean dropping Stam weapons (1h/2h/bow) that belong to sets with mostly magicka oriented bonuses (max stat, recovery, spell damage/pen)?
Especially duel-wield on mag characters used to be (still is in PVP) quite viable for the passives. Sword and shield is also still used in PVP. 2H and Bow probably less so.
So yeah, there are some that are legitimately completely useless because of the conditions used to proc the set, but generally taking away these drops would mean taking away players' options regarding builds, which so doubt ZOS wants to do.

idk

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think you're going to have to elaborate more on what you mean, @UGotBenched91.

If you're lobbying for a magicka melee weapon line, then that's a topic that's been rehashed in the forums countless times ...

I agree. I am guessing the OP is talking about getting a sword for a magicka based weapon set.

Raisin addresses this as some people have and still use DW on magicka builds. There are also hybrid builds in the game.

UGotBenched91

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think you're going to have to elaborate more on what you mean, @UGotBenched91.

If you're lobbying for a magicka melee weapon line, then that's a topic that's been rehashed in the forums countless times ...

I mean we already have Magicka melee weapons so I’m wondering why they exist? For example, I just had a Magicka stat based 2 handed mace drop that has Magicka set bonuses to it. Yet, by using this it cuts out some of the best skills for Magicka (staff skill line). So I’m not lobbying for anything I’m questing why these are in game or atleast setup the way they are.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Loot tables. Or whatever the drop list is called in ESO.

It's to extend grind. There are also staves dropping in stamina sets. And shields dropping in both. Don't forget that there are tanking sets too.

Taleof2Cities

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Loot tables. Or whatever the drop list is called in ESO.

It's to extend grind. There are also staves dropping in stamina sets. And shields dropping in both. Don't forget that there are tanking sets too.

^This^.

Won't elaborate on how many Spell Strategist Greatswords and Winterborn Bows I've deconned in six years of playing the game.

Everest_Lionheart

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Loot tables. Or whatever the drop list is called in ESO.

It's to extend grind. There are also staves dropping in stamina sets. And shields dropping in both. Don't forget that there are tanking sets too.

^This^.

Won't elaborate on how many Spell Strategist Greatswords and Winterborn Bows I've deconned in six years of playing the game.

I’ve got a mother’s sorrow battle axe and a Spriggans resto staff I would be willing to sell you 😆

amm7sb14_ESO

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

Feric51

FWIW they did make some changes to the loot pool for a few sets that required a specific weapon type to proc an effect or only buffed a specific weapon line.

Can’t remember off the top of my head all the ones they adjusted, but one example would be something like the one whose 5-piece effect gives bonuses to your destruction staff skill line - these should only drop inferno/ice/lightning staves and no other weapons.

If they are otherwise generic bonuses to magicka/stamina/element then they will continue to drop in all weapons types to allow build diversity and keep the loot pool diluted.

Also keep in mind they did try to restructure the armor sets to be more in line with armor skill line bonuses so magicka-based sets should drop primarily in light armor, stamina = medium, and health = heavy. There may still be a few exceptions to this rule, but for the most part this is true across the board now.

UGotBenched91

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

How effective is that in terms of trials and vet dungeons and such? Any evidence of builds were they used these melee weapons and kept up DPS? I’m honestly curious.

Anotherone773

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

so people who dont want to kill anything?

Gythral

pRNG or a 'sense of humour'

Dagoth_Rac

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

How effective is that in terms of trails and such? Any evidence of builds were they used these melee weapons and kept up DPS? I’m honestly curious.

Not as effective. But very few people are running min/max meta builds. Probably 90%+ of players are just running whatever they think looks and behaves cool. And 90%+ of game content can be completed just fine using off-meta builds.

technohic

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

so people who dont want to kill anything?

Pretty sure my magplar kills lots of other players running dual wield, or even 2h.

Anotherone773

technohic wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

so people who dont want to kill anything?

Pretty sure my magplar kills lots of other players running dual wield, or even 2h.

Yeah? Hows that magicka regen from your attacks?

technohic

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

How effective is that in terms of trials and vet dungeons and such? Any evidence of builds were they used these melee weapons and kept up DPS? I’m honestly curious.

They become stat sticks in PvP and 2h even just the heavy attack into an ultimate provides a boost, and you still need to maintain stam so I wouldn't turn down the passive recovery after a kill even if small.

technohic

Anotherone773 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

so people who dont want to kill anything?

Pretty sure my magplar kills lots of other players running dual wield, or even 2h.

Yeah? Hows that magicka regen from your attacks?

Who cares? Ele drain and focus, and there's a backbar

Fur_like_snow

My guess is to water down the loot table. For example, I was in crimson cove and a spinner’s bow dropped. That could have been a fire destro but the loot table is filled with set items that make no sense other than to waste your time. Luckily I was just getting a skyshard.

caperb

PvE magicka DPS won't use melee weapons of magicka sets, I think that's where your question is coming from. But tank and PvP builds, they often use melee weapons of magicka sets. My tank uses s&b SPC, my bomber dual VD and my magplar s&b transmutation, all melee weapons of magicka sets.

UGotBenched91

caperb wrote: »

PvE magicka DPS won't use melee weapons of magicka sets, I think that's where your question is coming from. But tank and PvP builds, they often use melee weapons of magicka sets. My tank uses s&b SPC, my bomber dual VD and my magplar s&b transmutation, all melee weapons of magicka sets.

Ah very interesting thank you!

VaranisArano

So, with One Tamriel, ZOS removed weapons that literally could not proc their 5th set bonus. Like Viper bows.

Problem is, people kept asking for them.
Then, worse, ZOS made two handed weapons count for two set bonuses. So a Viper bow could still count for the 4th set bonus, if not the 5th, if such a bow existed.

With more recent sets, ZOS has backtracked on "Smart Loot" and included all the possible weapons, even if it can't possibly proc the 5th set bonus. That's probably in recognition that some people will always want the option to use those sets or want the 4th piece bonus.

And that's for sets that literally cannot ever proc their 5th piece bonus. With that in mind, there's no reason for ZOS to alter sets that can, but just don't necessarily follow the stam vs magicka meta.

Major_Lag

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Why do we have these items in game

A better question would be to ask - why not?

Remember that the ESO player base consists mostly of what could be described as "casual" players, who don't participate in the endgame content with any kind of regularity (or even at all).

Of course in endgame PvE, using melee weapons of magicka sets (or staves of stamina sets) is generally speaking nonviable and/or heavily suboptimal on a DPS role.
But in non-endgame PvE content, a lot more builds become viable - to the point where you can completely ignore the usual rules and create some rather unusual builds with "flavor"/RP aspects, which are still perfectly viable in most/all non-endgame content: overland, normal non-DLC dungeon, some of the normal DLCs and basegame vets.

Furthermore, the PvE tank role is somewhat unusual in that it is considered the norm to use a sword and shield on one bar, and a lightning staff on the other.
This is one of the very few cases (quite possibly, the only one!) where a destro staff from a stamina set can be legitimately useful.

And then there is also PvP - which works in a radically, completely different way from PvE (even though ZOS insists that they should be balanced together... ugh), and the distinction between "roles" is largely lost in a solo/smallscale context.

Bucky_13

technohic wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

How effective is that in terms of trials and vet dungeons and such? Any evidence of builds were they used these melee weapons and kept up DPS? I’m honestly curious.

They become stat sticks in PvP and 2h even just the heavy attack into an ultimate provides a boost, and you still need to maintain stam so I wouldn't turn down the passive recovery after a kill even if small.

I do something similar on my sniper build in PvP , I have a 2h sword on my off bar which is only buffs and an aoe stun which boost healing thru passives, that I never use for attacks. Only reason I have it is for Rally, even use powered trait for larger heals since it's worthless for offense.

Kadoin

Anotherone773 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Simple - because some people like to use melee weapons on mag builds and don't want to use staves.

so people who dont want to kill anything?

Pretty sure my magplar kills lots of other players running dual wield, or even 2h.

Yeah? Hows that magicka regen from your attacks?

Apparently enough considering I did vMA with a hybrid using dual-wield and resto, and dual-weild and 2H (before ZOS decided to change Arch-mage to the pathetic set it is now).

I don't even use a destro staff in PvP because they honestly suck, and I don't use dodgeable, reflectable, and absorbed light attacks with a destro stave when I could simply use a heavy resto staff attack and get more mag back anyway.

That's ignoring the benefit of two enchants on DW.

Then again nearly all my pvp builds are hybrid with a mag tilt...

lucky_Sage

I miss dw or 2h mag builds but you lose way to much dmg now if you don’t use a staff I wish they would make a melee magick skill line or Atleast make weapons scale of highest stat

LuxLunae

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Every time I get a melee Magicka based weapon I think, “oh, this sounds cool.” Then I sell or discard it because it’s useless. Why do we have these items in game when some of the best skills can’t be used with them?

I heard at one time there was a battle mage class planned. Maybe that’s why?

At some point they will add in conjuration as a perk passive inside the mages guild or something.

That way, the stamina weapons turn to use magica... and put up magica damage... when will that happen? who knows....

By the way the perk passive idea in mages guild tree was not mine...I made a post about how we could get conjuration in the game and this kinda made sense.. make the DW and 2H weapons purple lights of blades that glow....

codierussell

[quote="UGotBenched91

How effective is that in terms of trials and vet dungeons and such? Any evidence of builds were they used these melee weapons and kept up DPS? I’m honestly curious. [/quote]

You have to remember that tanks back bar staves of stamina sets. Also, before the changes to volley, they would run bow back bar. The reason that is relevant is in a trial like VAS you would have a tank in worm, meaning had those volley changes not gone through tanks could be running bows for mag sets.

A few years ago DW was BIS on some mag characters in trials. Things change and because they aren't used now does not mean they weren't before or won't be in the future.

Everest_Lionheart

I’m actually holding on to a purple infused mother’s sorrow bow that dropped for me in case I find some utility for it a hybrid build later on. I have a feeling it would have some use on warden using bow plus pets on one bar and 2H on the other with Spriggans in PvP.