Noob Request: How to diminish panic attacks and plan a calm rotation

Caroloces

So I'm not much of a PVPer, but I jumped into midyear mayhem fully equipped to die often and well (which I do). I really do enjoy the gameplay, and I've actually employed some PVP builds on a couple of my toons. The problem is, these builds usually designate the skills you should equip on your bars, but are somewhat unclear as to the systematic rotation of these skills to use them most effectively. So I'm in the midst of a battle, and generally find myself flailing away at my skills, mixed in with occasional light and heavy attacks, until I get pummeled by a more experienced player.
So, I guess my question is, are there guides on the basic principles of how to do a good PVP rotation? I'd rather know the principles rather than specifics so I can tailor my own rotations on the various character classes I have in my lineup for possible PVP play.
Thanks for any help!

idk

It comes down to experience as the use of skills is dependent on the situation at that very moment. The two variables that are missing are what your build is and what is happening at that given moment. Ofc, we can only answer based on your build.

deleted221106-002999

I expect some will be along shortly to recommend their favourite streamer/youtube poster.

In the meantime, what you are descrbing comes and goes with time. Like any new task you process everything initially. Later, with experience, you learn to filter out the superfluous and focus on the relevant. Keep at it and don't be afraid to change stuff to suit yourself and style of play.

Also, strict rotation is probably not as critical in pvp as it is in pve, except maybe in burst/execute. Staying mobile and reactive are arguably better - if you're under pressure, mechanically running through a rotation is probably unlikely to be as helpful as reactively responding with movement and/or specific skills for that moment.

Duels and battlegrounds help with this, I think. Overland pvp I find there's more time (lag permitting) but for me I still find it more about instant reaction and movement.

butterrum222

Just post your skills and everyone here will tell you how to use them

OBJnoob

It is very important to know what type of character you’re playing. Some good tips in general for beginners... build tanky to start with. Not so you feel like a noodle but just so, even when you lose, it happened slowly enough where you can make sense of what happened. You can wear whatever armor weight you want just be tanky-ish. To start with. In pvp, I find, most of both of my bars are full of defensive and utility stuff. I really only have two attacks... 4 if you include the ultimate and the execute. If you take this approach you won’t struggle to know when to attack with what. If anything it’s a little boring and redundant. But being tanky (still need adequate wd for healing,) helps because you aren’t quite as endanger of exploding at any given time so you can sustain better by trusting your heals and buffs to do their work and not having to so slam them. This also makes the split second decisions a little simpler. You begin to learn your 3 or 4 Skill basic defensive rotation, almost always in the same order with the same ani cancels, Just like your 3 or 4 skill kill rotation. Then, as others have said, you get more experience. Better timing and positioning. You can start “going for it” then.

OBJnoob

Stupid autocomplete. Not having to SPAM heals on yourself.

Wing

solo world bosses in PvE

that is as close as you can get to PvP for a couple reasons.

-long fight, you will have to re buff throughout and it will teach you how.
-long fight, resource management, if you die do to resources you will learn what you need and figure out how to get it.
-you will need to do damage to inevitably kill the boss.

you can switch world bosses to harder ones as you go:

-from something like nest mother in auridon being a single big easy sack of hit points you need to block or interrupt every now and then.
-to something like the werewolves in greymoor that are multiple bosses with adds and some heavy hitting mechanics you need to avoid.

once you can do that, it comes down to the finer points of pvp, figuring out your burst window, los, kiting, situational awareness, etc.

but yeah, solo world bosses until its no problem.

VaranisArano

There's no real rotation. I find it helps to think in terms of "Offense vs Defense."

To begin with, there's certain baseline stuff you need pretty much at all times
1. You need enough health to stay out of execute range.
2. You need a HOT ticking most of the time to heal proactively so you stay out of execute range. This also makes it a lot easier to emergency heal.
3. You need enough stamina to dodge roll. If you run out, you will get CC'd and killed.

With that in mind, let's talk about offense and defense. In PVE group content, you can use a rotation because, with rare exceptions, it doesn't matter when you hit enemies and ou've always got a backup healer. NPCs don't get stronger and weaker throughout the fight, and they attack with telegraphed mechanics. In contrast, players are constantly using and recovering their resources as they attack, heal, and buff. Players do have some predictable tactics, but it takes time and practice to recognize those battle cues.

Offense/Defense is simple in concept but hard to practice. You want to attack the enemy when they are weak and defend when they are strong. If the enemy is launching their combo of attacks, you want to be at your strongest defensively, buffed up, a HOT ticking, and ready to block/dodge. Once they've blown their resources futilely attacking your solid defense, then you've got the resources to launch your combo in return against their (hopefully exhausted) defenses.

Many new PVPers (including me when I was new) get it reversed. We jump into attacking, and our more experienced foe simply turtles up until we blow our resources, then wipes the floor with us because we can't outheal or escape.

As you get more experienced, you can lean towards one or the other. Defensive styles like tanks draw out fights by avoiding damage and hurtling up, relying on ultimates and other combos to burst down targets. Gankers and bombers are the opposite: all offense, against targets that hopefully have little defense. The middle ground can take some time to figure out. Some people like to jump right in with a meta build and learn by doing. I preferred to build tankier first and then add in more damage as I got more situational awareness.


As for diminishing panic attacks?
I guess I'd say that if you panic, try to panic defensively. Heals and buffs are good and your builds that you find ought to have some defensive skills.
When it comes to how to kill people, you'll want to be able to pick your time. Builds will often have "combos" of certain skills that you can use to burst or pressure other players, but the timing is something that comes through practice.

Hope this helps!

tsaescishoeshiner

Simple PvE-style rotation:

1. Heals-over-Time / short buffs
2. DoTs (if applicable)
3. Stun
4. Spammable x however much time you have left. Replace with heavy attack when needed
5. Repeat every 8-10 seconds

Use 20-second buffs every 2 rotations, and Ult whenever ready, or to push an advantage/make space for yourself to survive

You want a HoT skill on u as often as possible (or a damage shield, but they cost more magicka) so that you heal while stunned or bursted. Stun cooldown is every 8 seconds — just a bit shorter than PvE DoTs, so the timing should be familiar. Yes it's probably best to stun someone either when YOU are in danger or THEY are (so you can finish them off), but every 8 seconds is still a good strategy that gives you time to heal cuz it puts them on the defensive and can make THEM panic :~p

For panic attacks, I recommend dueling with a friend or guildie. It's a much less scary way to learn PvP

EmEm_Oh

Wing wrote: »

solo world bosses in PvE

that is as close as you can get to PvP for a couple reasons.

-long fight, you will have to re buff throughout and it will teach you how.
-long fight, resource management, if you die do to resources you will learn what you need and figure out how to get it.
-you will need to do damage to inevitably kill the boss.

you can switch world bosses to harder ones as you go:

-from something like nest mother in auridon being a single big easy sack of hit points you need to block or interrupt every now and then.
-to something like the werewolves in greymoor that are multiple bosses with adds and some heavy hitting mechanics you need to avoid.

once you can do that, it comes down to the finer points of pvp, figuring out your burst window, los, kiting, situational awareness, etc.

but yeah, solo world bosses until its no problem.

WBs don't spam certain skills so all you're doing, really, is learning to counter AI rotations. This isn't bad for PvP entirely but certainly won't prepare you for known classes and their spam.

The best way is to ride with a group. They are your "tank", your "shield". You have much more time watching the enemy's rotations and spam on others while developing your own retort.

Jaimeh

Caroloces wrote: »

So I'm not much of a PVPer, but I jumped into midyear mayhem fully equipped to die often and well (which I do). I really do enjoy the gameplay, and I've actually employed some PVP builds on a couple of my toons. The problem is, these builds usually designate the skills you should equip on your bars, but are somewhat unclear as to the systematic rotation of these skills to use them most effectively. So I'm in the midst of a battle, and generally find myself flailing away at my skills, mixed in with occasional light and heavy attacks, until I get pummeled by a more experienced player.
So, I guess my question is, are there guides on the basic principles of how to do a good PVP rotation? I'd rather know the principles rather than specifics so I can tailor my own rotations on the various character classes I have in my lineup for possible PVP play.
Thanks for any help!

I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think PvP has rotations per se, like the ones that PvE DDs have--in PvP there's things as 'combos', a succession of skills to maximize burst, and then buffing skills, along with damage mitigation/healing and utility skills. Hence the playstyle becomes situational; usually you will buff up and get ready to use your combo, but maybe there's a siele going on so you'll need to use your damage mitigation and healing skills, or a utility skill like a gap closer to close distance on someone, or between yourself and the fight... I think when to use what becomes easier with practice, you'll know when to attack someone with your combo, or play more defensively. That's from my limited understanding of PvP, in any case

Caroloces

This is all amazing advice, and I'm deeply appreciative of everyone's input. It's revealing to me that the consensus seems to be that a fixed rotation is not the way to go. Optimally, one needs to maintain resources, and respond tactically to the minute by minute situations that arise on the battlefield.

I thought it might be interesting to specify the particular build and it's skills so people might comment on that.
I adopted Alcast's Magicka Templar build for PVP called Blazeplar. It uses shacklebreaker, bright throat's boast, and valkyn skoria for sets, with with shock staff on main bar, and S&B on back bar. On main bar you have in slot order: radiant oppression, purifying light, puncturing sweeps, degeneration, aurora javelin, and Ulti: shooting star. On the back bar, you have in slot order: living dark, ritual of retribution, honor the dead (I keep healing springs because I use the templar for heals in dungeons), vampire's bane, channeled focus, and Ulti: Spell Wall.

One thing that puzzles me a little is the particular order of the skills. Just as an example, radiant oppression is an execute type skill which probably should be used towards the end of the fight, so why does it occupy the first slot on the bar? I know that one should learn the individual slots so that you know exactly what you're pressing in any given moment, but it seems to make sense that initially placing skills in some type of logical order would ease their execution. So it seems to me that purifying light should go first because it's a debuff, then degeneration for self-buff, and then aurora javelin assuming the enemy is at a distance. And yeah, I can rearrange this myself, but I'm wondering if there is a particular reason for this ordering of the skills.

Camb0Sl1ce

Most likely just personal preference. On a controller for example I try to put passive skills like bound aegis or inner light on left bumper so when or if i have to block all of my skills are still available.

Wing

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

solo world bosses in PvE

that is as close as you can get to PvP for a couple reasons.

-long fight, you will have to re buff throughout and it will teach you how.
-long fight, resource management, if you die do to resources you will learn what you need and figure out how to get it.
-you will need to do damage to inevitably kill the boss.

you can switch world bosses to harder ones as you go:

-from something like nest mother in auridon being a single big easy sack of hit points you need to block or interrupt every now and then.
-to something like the werewolves in greymoor that are multiple bosses with adds and some heavy hitting mechanics you need to avoid.

once you can do that, it comes down to the finer points of pvp, figuring out your burst window, los, kiting, situational awareness, etc.

but yeah, solo world bosses until its no problem.

WBs don't spam certain skills so all you're doing, really, is learning to counter AI rotations. This isn't bad for PvP entirely but certainly won't prepare you for known classes and their spam.

The best way is to ride with a group. They are your "tank", your "shield". You have much more time watching the enemy's rotations and spam on others while developing your own retort.

true they dont spam class skills, but honestly thats a much finer high skill level pvp specific requirement that only comes from 1v1's with those classes, and sometimes playing them yourself, things like knowing wardens shalks timer, rolling or blocking incaps, blocking leaps, etc. and thats a much more long term goal that comes from just pvp'ing for a long time.

soloing world bosses i could care less about the enemy rotation, but it teaches you some very important stuff on YOUR end as a player, that carries over into pvp.

-can your build last in a prolonged fight with no rest period?
-you learn to rebuff and heal during prolonged fights where you are still under attack.
-if you die what was it to, lack of sustain? not tanky enough? how do you fix that.

those basic skills once trained to muscle memory, of rebuffing in a fight under pressure, of knowing how to sustain in a prolonged fight, of knowing how to heal when under attack, of trying to win against multiple targets that can kill you, WILL transfer over into pvp.

then you can start learning the fine points specific to pvp, and as you said, start dealing with players and their classes, without tripping over your own character or your own capability.

if you cannot solo the werewolf world boss in greymoor, you will have very little chance of beating a single enemy player in pvp.

MurderMostFoul

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's no real rotation. I find it helps to think in terms of "Offense vs Defense."

To begin with, there's certain baseline stuff you need pretty much at all times
1. You need enough health to stay out of execute range.
2. You need a HOT ticking most of the time to heal proactively so you stay out of execute range. This also makes it a lot easier to emergency heal.
3. You need enough stamina to dodge roll. If you run out, you will get CC'd and killed.

With that in mind, let's talk about offense and defense. In PVE group content, you can use a rotation because, with rare exceptions, it doesn't matter when you hit enemies and ou've always got a backup healer. NPCs don't get stronger and weaker throughout the fight, and they attack with telegraphed mechanics. In contrast, players are constantly using and recovering their resources as they attack, heal, and buff. Players do have some predictable tactics, but it takes time and practice to recognize those battle cues.

Offense/Defense is simple in concept but hard to practice. You want to attack the enemy when they are weak and defend when they are strong. If the enemy is launching their combo of attacks, you want to be at your strongest defensively, buffed up, a HOT ticking, and ready to block/dodge. Once they've blown their resources futilely attacking your solid defense, then you've got the resources to launch your combo in return against their (hopefully exhausted) defenses.

Many new PVPers (including me when I was new) get it reversed. We jump into attacking, and our more experienced foe simply turtles up until we blow our resources, then wipes the floor with us because we can't outheal or escape.

As you get more experienced, you can lean towards one or the other. Defensive styles like tanks draw out fights by avoiding damage and hurtling up, relying on ultimates and other combos to burst down targets. Gankers and bombers are the opposite: all offense, against targets that hopefully have little defense. The middle ground can take some time to figure out. Some people like to jump right in with a meta build and learn by doing. I preferred to build tankier first and then add in more damage as I got more situational awareness.


As for diminishing panic attacks?
I guess I'd say that if you panic, try to panic defensively. Heals and buffs are good and your builds that you find ought to have some defensive skills.
When it comes to how to kill people, you'll want to be able to pick your time. Builds will often have "combos" of certain skills that you can use to burst or pressure other players, but the timing is something that comes through practice.

Hope this helps!

This, totally this.

PVP is not about a "rotation" in the PVE sense. It is about firing off an offencive sequence of skills at the right time, and knowing when to lean on your defensive skills.

The only thing I'd add to the "Offensive vs. Defensive" modes is your Buffing. In addition to knowing when to fire your offensive sequence and when to rely on your defensive skills, you also need to keep your longer (15+ secs) Buffs up as much as possible. This will make you as effective as possible during both the offensive and defensive phases.

So combat should generally feel like,

1. Buff up.
2. Find/attack target with offensive sequence.
3. If successful and target is taking significant damage, repeat offensive sequence/use executes (if this lasts long, watch your resources and reapply buffs while keeping the pressure on).
4. If target escapes or dies, go back to 1.
5. If target counters, or another opponent attacks you and you take significant damage, use your defense skills (usually you either turtle up and wait for an opportunity to counter, or try to get away, and again, if this lasts long, watch your resources and reapply buffs while keeping your health out of execute range)
6. If you escape or die, go back to 1.
7. If you find and opportunity to counter, go back to 2.

Edit: As far as panic is concerned, you just need to practice until it is all comfortable. The best place to do this is in Battlegrounds where the action is pretty much constant, giving you the most opportunities to fight opponents in Dynamic engagements.

Mayrael

Probably one of the most detailed videos on how to fight in in PvP. These are just general informations, what you need is muscle memory and good feel of the toon you olay.:

https://youtu.be/P0BQDdsbAac

Mayrael

Also playing solo in Cyrodiil and IC is another level of PvP when compared to dueling.