Stuhn's is good, but...

MurderMostFoul

It's a shame that a skill/ability that initially damages and sets your target off balance doesn't immediately proc it. I like to proc it on the back bar, then swap to front, but it gets a tad clunkier having to apply off balance, then deal some damage, then bar swap.

I wish Stuhn's would proc immediately if a the source of off balance also does damage.

MartiniDaniels

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

NinjaMyk

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

MurderMostFoul

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

MartiniDaniels

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

Not everybody has access to good sources of major fracture. Actually only 2 classes have. Nightblades have too, but in practice they don't use it that often, because well during burst you have no free GCD to apply it, and if you apply it before the burst, target will be already alerted. So it is what OP says - requirement of extra action to activate is very noticeable (if set used on back bar).
We may look even further - majority of builds have s&b backbar, and if 5k pen was so great power, everybody will use ransack. When you last time saw ransack from player? It is again about extra GCD/ability slot.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

Yes, but if you want to activate by dizzy you need to use Stuhn's on front, that means no NMA front. If you want to dizzy and then swap back, activate stuhn's, swap back... to much time spent swapping back and forth.
And if on back with some class ability, then it consumes too much time too. On another side, if it will be activating when you put somebody off-balance it will have bad uptime against single target...

jaws343

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

Not everybody has access to good sources of major fracture. Actually only 2 classes have. Nightblades have too, but in practice they don't use it that often, because well during burst you have no free GCD to apply it, and if you apply it before the burst, target will be already alerted. So it is what OP says - requirement of extra action to activate is very noticeable (if set used on back bar).
We may look even further - majority of builds have s&b backbar, and if 5k pen was so great power, everybody will use ransack. When you last time saw ransack from player? It is again about extra GCD/ability slot.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

Yes, but if you want to activate by dizzy you need to use Stuhn's on front, that means no NMA front. If you want to dizzy and then swap back, activate stuhn's, swap back... to much time spent swapping back and forth.
And if on back with some class ability, then it consumes too much time too. On another side, if it will be activating when you put somebody off-balance it will have bad uptime against single target...

You can always double bar it to keep NMA front barred only. Or just double bar NMA. It is definitely better in fights verse more than one opponent. But that is most PVP in this game anyways.

NinjaMyk

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

Not everybody has access to good sources of major fracture. Actually only 2 classes have. Nightblades have too, but in practice they don't use it that often, because well during burst you have no free GCD to apply it, and if you apply it before the burst, target will be already alerted. So it is what OP says - requirement of extra action to activate is very noticeable (if set used on back bar).
We may look even further - majority of builds have s&b backbar, and if 5k pen was so great power, everybody will use ransack. When you last time saw ransack from player? It is again about extra GCD/ability slot.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

Yes, but if you want to activate by dizzy you need to use Stuhn's on front, that means no NMA front. If you want to dizzy and then swap back, activate stuhn's, swap back... to much time spent swapping back and forth.
And if on back with some class ability, then it consumes too much time too. On another side, if it will be activating when you put somebody off-balance it will have bad uptime against single target...

Set cp to off balance when dodge roll attack... dodge roll on back bar which a lot of pvp players do as they have NMA in front bar so avoid rolling there, proc stuhns, switch to front bar, profit... is how I imagine it being used efficiently.

MartiniDaniels

jaws343 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

Not everybody has access to good sources of major fracture. Actually only 2 classes have. Nightblades have too, but in practice they don't use it that often, because well during burst you have no free GCD to apply it, and if you apply it before the burst, target will be already alerted. So it is what OP says - requirement of extra action to activate is very noticeable (if set used on back bar).
We may look even further - majority of builds have s&b backbar, and if 5k pen was so great power, everybody will use ransack. When you last time saw ransack from player? It is again about extra GCD/ability slot.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

Yes, but if you want to activate by dizzy you need to use Stuhn's on front, that means no NMA front. If you want to dizzy and then swap back, activate stuhn's, swap back... to much time spent swapping back and forth.
And if on back with some class ability, then it consumes too much time too. On another side, if it will be activating when you put somebody off-balance it will have bad uptime against single target...

You can always double bar it to keep NMA front barred only. Or just double bar NMA. It is definitely better in fights verse more than one opponent. But that is most PVP in this game anyways.

If you double bar it, you could just use NMG before (if you are not stamDK or stamden). For stamplar, stamsorc, stamblade something always crits, especially if there are many opponents around. But nobody used NMG even before NMA, everybody preferred spriggan front...
I'm not telling that everybody should start using NMG, I simply agree with OP that it will be better if Stuhn's was activated by initial ability too (if it has damage).

MartiniDaniels

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

Not everybody has access to good sources of major fracture. Actually only 2 classes have. Nightblades have too, but in practice they don't use it that often, because well during burst you have no free GCD to apply it, and if you apply it before the burst, target will be already alerted. So it is what OP says - requirement of extra action to activate is very noticeable (if set used on back bar).
We may look even further - majority of builds have s&b backbar, and if 5k pen was so great power, everybody will use ransack. When you last time saw ransack from player? It is again about extra GCD/ability slot.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

Yes, but if you want to activate by dizzy you need to use Stuhn's on front, that means no NMA front. If you want to dizzy and then swap back, activate stuhn's, swap back... to much time spent swapping back and forth.
And if on back with some class ability, then it consumes too much time too. On another side, if it will be activating when you put somebody off-balance it will have bad uptime against single target...

Set cp to off balance when dodge roll attack... dodge roll on back bar which a lot of pvp players do as they have NMA in front bar so avoid rolling there, proc stuhns, switch to front bar, profit... is how I imagine it being used efficiently.

Well, it's how I use it (stuhn's bow back), but switching from master's bow, I didn't noticed much difference. In theory of course 5300 pen is much better then 330 base WD against one target. In practice, off-balance with new cooldown is tricky, if you proc it too early before burst is built up you will lose 10% from exploiter... With master's bow you poison inject (can be instantly cancelled by roll-dodge or bar swap even in lag, because PI is so amazingly short and fast) and can go with your attack rotation while with Stuhn's you need to set off-balance first, then activate it, then bar swap... you could already land couple of dizzies or jabs meanwhile and that will be way more damage then 5300 pen provide.

jaws343

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

Not everybody has access to good sources of major fracture. Actually only 2 classes have. Nightblades have too, but in practice they don't use it that often, because well during burst you have no free GCD to apply it, and if you apply it before the burst, target will be already alerted. So it is what OP says - requirement of extra action to activate is very noticeable (if set used on back bar).
We may look even further - majority of builds have s&b backbar, and if 5k pen was so great power, everybody will use ransack. When you last time saw ransack from player? It is again about extra GCD/ability slot.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

NinjaMyk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

It stacks with major fracture though so that’s why it is valuable I believe

And can have 100% uptime vs multiple targets.
And 2-4 bonuses are very strong.

Yes, but if you want to activate by dizzy you need to use Stuhn's on front, that means no NMA front. If you want to dizzy and then swap back, activate stuhn's, swap back... to much time spent swapping back and forth.
And if on back with some class ability, then it consumes too much time too. On another side, if it will be activating when you put somebody off-balance it will have bad uptime against single target...

You can always double bar it to keep NMA front barred only. Or just double bar NMA. It is definitely better in fights verse more than one opponent. But that is most PVP in this game anyways.

If you double bar it, you could just use NMG before (if you are not stamDK or stamden). For stamplar, stamsorc, stamblade something always crits, especially if there are many opponents around. But nobody used NMG even before NMA, everybody preferred spriggan front...
I'm not telling that everybody should start using NMG, I simply agree with OP that it will be better if Stuhn's was activated by initial ability too (if it has damage).

I do think it would be good to activate on initial ability. But the reason no one uses NMG is because it provides Fracture, which can be gained from skills and doesn't stack with itself. Stuhns stacks with Major/Minor fracture as it provides a unique penetration source.

Unified_Gaming

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

A dot can proc it back so venom arrow is very good 🏹

MartiniDaniels

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tbh, set seems a bit over-rated. Just crafted it yesterday, even made gold rings, being sure it will be that awesome... but technically it is just major fracture/breach with ~60-70% uptime and as OP said shines only on back bar, but requires additional GCD or half-GCD to proc.
And using it on both bars... maybe on some build which has some off-resource additional damage... but on class without major fracture you can just use NMG (major fracture on crit), but who uses NMG in 2020? In the meantime Stuhn's does absolutely the same but with lower uptime. 2-4 set bonuses of Stuhn's are better, but that's all.
Well, you can probably go with Stuhn's main bar and 7th/clever alchemist/master's bow back, then it will be better, but there are other amazing sets for main bar - NMA and Deadly..

A dot can proc it back so venom arrow is very good 🏹

Then probably highest damage possible (with no CA/Balorgh cooldowns) is master's bow back, Deadly or NMA front and Stuhn's on 5 pieces + 1 piece of WD from veli/kena? (1 slot for mythic like WH/Torc)

Firstmep

On magplar I run it as a frontbar set, but tbh it could be backbarred too, after toppling I just barswap and there's usually a couple of dots ticking anyway maybe I drop my ritual and swap back.
It does feel more natural frontbar only though.
And the way it procs as long as you damage someone before off balance expires you can extend the duration up to 17 seconds even In a 1v1, which let's be honest not what most of pvp is about anyway.

MurderMostFoul

I really think its best as a back bar set.

In CP roll dodge to proc - easy.

In NoCP, it's best on classes that have easy access to off Balance. I would not try to use Dizzy to proc it.

Running SnB back bar, you can switch from the 5th piece of Stuhn's on your back bar to the 5th piece of a damage set on your front bar (NMA). This preserves the 2-4 piece bonuses from Stuhn's on your front bar, and uses only 9 pieces, so you could run a Mythic and a Monster with it.