What Makes MagCro bad in BGs/PVP??

billywink3b14_ESO

When I look at it all on paper right -

They have a CC, a spammable, multiple AoE, some good self heals and purges...

When I compare it on paper with my MagDK i feel like they both have the same opportunity to have similar bars right?

Spammable, AOE, debuff, self heal, self buffs and CC.

---

So why is MagCro labeled as one of the worst? The tooltips seem to show that the damage for each ability is similar across classes so what am i missing? Is it the passives in each tree that are making a difference between the classes and skills? Are necro passives weak compared to other classes so you don't see the same or close to the same dmg output?

I'm not V experienced in PVP and I'm playing my MagDK as my main rn (which why I'm using it as an example) but i honestly really love my Necro a lot and always stare at it on my character select screen. Its unfortunate this does this to me but all I read about is doom and gloom (lolzz) with regards to MagCro PVP and it turns me off a lot. I did read about the harmony trait stuff and I want to try to stay away from builds that are so very specific.

For example, on my MAgDK i dont know that i follow the builds i researched exactly but i found a happy medium between the build and how I play. I feel like the Harmony trait build for MAgcro is so specific there is no wiggle room.

In the end I want to do both healing and dmg in BGs depending on my mood and i feel like i would have more fun on MagCro but only if it were given the same opportunities to do damage like my MagDK.

Sorry for the rambling & thanks for reading!

EtTuBrutus

They're not that bad, but the lack of an execute and the lack of an INSTANT burst dmg ult can be a bummer.

setayco

If you aren’t seeing results it could be a lack of proper class design for pvp damage dealers.
Without using harmony and things like a lightning staff to buff the damage of gravedigger further your are left with lackluster skills with little to no synergy within its own kit.

The class spammable looks strong and provides a %damage increase on each third cast.
The problem with the spammable and why most choose to discard it is, it is very clunky and slow making it unreliable for times burst. The skill makes your weapon disappear longer than most class spammables excluding crystal frags because it has the same effect but more damage and is not a true spammable.
Your cc is also delayed in a since which you cannot force upon the enemy making the cc either delayed or non reliable.
The class burst option which is stalking blast-bones had a superb change in targeting which in turn, made the passive attached to the magicka morph almost useless vs opponents that are not kiting you. And is still broken to some extent. I.e when a sorc streaks away the blastbones jumps and explodes but does not connect with a target, same things happens when you use flame clench( the preferred stun) it knocks it just away from the path it jumps to resulting in no damage.
More than half of the passives support tanky or support gameplay with little to no % damage increases, everything in the passives are flat gains excluding the critical increases to enemies with low health( which still is counter intuitive to the current meta with everyone having increased crit resists)
All of the ultimates on the class are delayed damage which most enemies can heal through or dodge away from.
There are no true DoTs on the class to add pressure to a single target. Given that the class has 15% more dot damage passive. The scythe sadly is not an execute and the tooltip wont scale up to equal even 6> of the current spammables damage.
That being said for dealing damage and setting up burst outside of the colussus smash and gravedigger you wont see much results as the current output and amount of damage skills are lackluster in comparison to magblades, magsorcs, magicka templars, magicka dks and even magicka wardens.
The thing in common that each one of these classes have is % damage increase whether crit damage modifiers or raw damage modifiers. Mag sorc and magicka dks have unblockable ccs which both cannot be dodged. Templars have better cc abilities that can either be knockback or a gapcloser with a spammable that procs extra damage ontop of incredible synergy with passives for extra damage. Warden is the king of aoe pressure with multiple % increase to damage across the board. Each class has synergy with its damage dealing kit. Procs going to templar and sorc with burning light and frags with undodgeable damage. Magicka dk and wardens have incredible pressure in forms of big burst and dots. Magicka nightblade is similar in regard to having counterable burst added with casttimes. But is much more intuitive and effective than magicka necromancer. Even with harmony you are left with 2 skills to use to be on par with every other class in the game of which are both on lengthy timers, synergy activation 20 second cool down and a 30% damage increasing ult which at most
Times will only hit once and can be purged aswell. With no dots or any other status effects from the class it is heavily build reliant to get even a fraction of performance you can get with other classes.

My conclusion is that hopefully further down the line the class gets a reasonable rework to the tethering skills, blast bones, class spammable, cc, and class passives. Otherwise you can enjoy good damage mitigation and reliable healing. And try and out sustain the other enemy if you arent relying on harmony and the 2 class skills that deal good enough damage to pubstomp and bomb.

Waffennacht

No way to reliably finish off an opponent

Gorilla

My guildies LOVE the class, but mostly for synergy builds.

Kadoin

Most people have no idea how to actually use a class, that's the real problem. Every spec on live has a strength... However, it is also true that some have no weaknesses...

Xologamer

billywink3b14_ESO wrote: »

When I look at it all on paper right -

They have a CC, a spammable, multiple AoE, some good self heals and purges...

When I compare it on paper with my MagDK i feel like they both have the same opportunity to have similar bars right?

Spammable, AOE, debuff, self heal, self buffs and CC.

---

So why is MagCro labeled as one of the worst? The tooltips seem to show that the damage for each ability is similar across classes so what am i missing? Is it the passives in each tree that are making a difference between the classes and skills? Are necro passives weak compared to other classes so you don't see the same or close to the same dmg output?

I'm not V experienced in PVP and I'm playing my MagDK as my main rn (which why I'm using it as an example) but i honestly really love my Necro a lot and always stare at it on my character select screen. Its unfortunate this does this to me but all I read about is doom and gloom (lolzz) with regards to MagCro PVP and it turns me off a lot. I did read about the harmony trait stuff and I want to try to stay away from builds that are so very specific.

For example, on my MAgDK i dont know that i follow the builds i researched exactly but i found a happy medium between the build and how I play. I feel like the Harmony trait build for MAgcro is so specific there is no wiggle room.

In the end I want to do both healing and dmg in BGs depending on my mood and i feel like i would have more fun on MagCro but only if it were given the same opportunities to do damage like my MagDK.

Sorry for the rambling & thanks for reading!

i play a pvp magcro and its pretty good no idea why u think that makro is bad

Brrrofski

Learn the class and you can make anything work.

I used to pvp on Stam sorc and stamplar way back when they had little useful passives or skills to play a Stam spec, and I was still doing fine.

Seriously, meteor was the best ultimate for both of them.

Stam sorc had no real passives that helped it or any Stam morphs (that Stam version of boundless storm - thundering presence I think it was called - was useless before they changed it to hurricane).

Mag necro is fine, just takes some time to learn it.

One bit problem in my experience is that your burst is so centered around blastbones, and blastbones is terrible in lag. Stam has other burst tools so it's not as bad. But if they could fix blastbones properly, it's help a lot.

NinchiTV

Waffennacht wrote: »

No way to reliably finish off an opponent

Agreed, I feel like im basically artillery in pvp. I end up with so many assists in BGs. After writing this I feel compelled to put 2 bloodthirsty, 20% + damage at <25% HP could probably make up for the lack of execute.

billywink3b14_ESO

Xologamer wrote: »

billywink3b14_ESO wrote: »

When I look at it all on paper right -

They have a CC, a spammable, multiple AoE, some good self heals and purges...

When I compare it on paper with my MagDK i feel like they both have the same opportunity to have similar bars right?

Spammable, AOE, debuff, self heal, self buffs and CC.

---

So why is MagCro labeled as one of the worst? The tooltips seem to show that the damage for each ability is similar across classes so what am i missing? Is it the passives in each tree that are making a difference between the classes and skills? Are necro passives weak compared to other classes so you don't see the same or close to the same dmg output?

I'm not V experienced in PVP and I'm playing my MagDK as my main rn (which why I'm using it as an example) but i honestly really love my Necro a lot and always stare at it on my character select screen. Its unfortunate this does this to me but all I read about is doom and gloom (lolzz) with regards to MagCro PVP and it turns me off a lot. I did read about the harmony trait stuff and I want to try to stay away from builds that are so very specific.

For example, on my MAgDK i dont know that i follow the builds i researched exactly but i found a happy medium between the build and how I play. I feel like the Harmony trait build for MAgcro is so specific there is no wiggle room.

In the end I want to do both healing and dmg in BGs depending on my mood and i feel like i would have more fun on MagCro but only if it were given the same opportunities to do damage like my MagDK.

Sorry for the rambling & thanks for reading!

i play a pvp magcro and its pretty good no idea why u think that makro is bad

How are you playing it? Where are you successful?

I don't think MagCro is bad, I'm told it's one of the worst in BG PVP and I'm here asking why .

Urvoth

No offensive CC, a terrible offensive kit that generally is forced to crutch on harmony, no useful secondary effect on blastbones, a clunky spammable, no execute, no major sorcery or prophecy, no on demand debuffs aside from the ult, no mobility, etc. Magcro just needs a massive overhaul for PvP. You can basically only fight people when they want to fight you since you completely lack mobility and offensive CC.

Xargas13

I was successful before the Greymoor, you could use your defensives, play with your opponent, I didn't even use LOS and I was doing great, now most abilities are totally useless, as its no use going on defensive n then offensive and vise versa, since its full offense now or you are dead. Now I agree with everyone, magcro is bad for PvP at the moment.

buzzclops

Magcro is top tier in bgs. Its just that no one knows how to use their kit. Its not all about offense you can be a pillar for your team. Good heals, good damage and good zone control. Ppl are trying to go for 1vx duel builds and bring em to bgs. Thats not the same meta!

Atherakhia

buzzclops wrote: »

Magcro is top tier in bgs. Its just that no one knows how to use their kit. Its not all about offense you can be a pillar for your team. Good heals, good damage and good zone control. Ppl are trying to go for 1vx duel builds and bring em to bgs. Thats not the same meta!

The problem with comments like this is as good as you may be with MagCro, there's a reason you see next to none of them when doing any PvP be it BGs or Cyrodil. The community at large agrees they're the bottom of Mag in this game.

I think the problem in this thread is a lot of people are confusing the words "bad" with "useless". Obviously the class isn't useless. But to say it's anything but last place is being naive.

buzzclops

Atherakhia wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Magcro is top tier in bgs. Its just that no one knows how to use their kit. Its not all about offense you can be a pillar for your team. Good heals, good damage and good zone control. Ppl are trying to go for 1vx duel builds and bring em to bgs. Thats not the same meta!

The problem with comments like this is as good as you may be with MagCro, there's a reason you see next to none of them when doing any PvP be it BGs or Cyrodil. The community at large agrees they're the bottom of Mag in this game.

I think the problem in this thread is a lot of people are confusing the words "bad" with "useless". Obviously the class isn't useless. But to say it's anything but last place is being naive.

You can consistently pull 1 million heals and 1 million damage and carry an entire team on your shoulders on magcro in no cp bgs. Magden can do it too. They are far from bottom place in “bgs” if it wasnt for solo q only it would be even stronger. In this format id say stamsorc/magdk are the worst right now as they bring nothing to their teams and have been hit harder by the healing nerf. Tho i agree that it needs some buffs especially on blastbones morph. All im saying is worst class for open world/ duels maybe but for 4v4v4 it’s actually really good

mav1234

what are some non-harmony builds/playstyles people are having success with on magcro? would like to have a starting place when cracking mine out soon. I don't mind a support role.

buzzclops wrote: »

You can consistently pull 1 million heals and 1 million damage and carry an entire team on your shoulders on magcro in no cp bgs. Magden can do it too. They are far from bottom place in “bgs” if it wasnt for solo q only it would be even stronger. In this format id say stamsorc/magdk are the worst right now as they bring nothing to their teams and have been hit harder by the healing nerf. Tho i agree that it needs some buffs especially on blastbones morph. All im saying is worst class for open world/ duels maybe but for 4v4v4 it’s actually really good

O.o both stamsorc and magdk are strong this patch and definitely seem stronger than magcro.

precambria

NO execute, NO reliable CC, NO mobility in class, tethers are just good good in fast paced PvP as a result tons of necro damage potential is missing, their heal defiles them, spammable is weak when you have nothing to combo it with, destro staff is unable to fill in for a non viable class kit in PvP, at least with stam that isn't an issue.

Support while very much appreciated has gone down considerably in value with the combination of healing nerfs and removal of actual organized PvP from bgs.

Stamsorc is incredible in BGs, MagDK is in a weird spot but it's MUCH more user friendly than magcro which basically is a 1 trick pony with an awkward playstyle. The best thing to happen to magcro's is harmony being nerfed because now the actual issues with the class can be looked at.

Algorax

buzzclops wrote: »

Magcro is top tier in bgs. Its just that no one knows how to use their kit. Its not all about offense you can be a pillar for your team. Good heals, good damage and good zone control. Ppl are trying to go for 1vx duel builds and bring em to bgs. Thats not the same meta!

Besides hilarious comments like the one i just quoted, you may find what a magcro lacks in several other previous answers.
Just lemme say that no matter the build and the skill: you will be always underperforming when compared to someone else with a minimum level of proficiency in other classes which, as futher thing to increase the gap, are far easyer to use and master.

Firstmep

I play magcro in bgs nearly every day, non harmony build.

Icy Conj, blackrose destro/resto, skoria(although its a bit bugged atm).

I use the ranged morph of impulse to spread wild impulse dot, plonk down graveyard, spam crushing shock, profit.

buzzclops

Firstmep wrote: »

I play magcro in bgs nearly every day, non harmony build.

Icy Conj, blackrose destro/resto, skoria(although its a bit bugged atm).

I use the ranged morph of impulse to spread wild impulse dot, plonk down graveyard, spam crushing shock, profit.

This is a really nice playstyle too! Icy conj gets a 15% bonus.
Blackrose resto with radiating regen, ghost, burst heal and healing ward with resto ult(applies major vitality to your whole team). Basically a healer on back bar. Nothing will die on your team i still get 13k+ resistant fleshes crits in no cp. i pair this with chokethorn in group play. Its op af. Front bar you weave blast bones even when healing and use masters destro to buff everything on both your bars. Bar swap cancel my stun defensively then proc shield+resistant flesh through block If needed. It carries whole teams in high mmr on ps4. The damage is pretty good too. Soul assault gets a 15% buff and with la>blastbones>la>clench>la>soul assault. The bb will hit with the 2nd/3rd tick of soul assault. No stam build is going to survive in no cp without support or instant los wich i make sure they cant do before. Harmony is for the youtube meta chasers. It’s just good in zergs/vs inexperienced players that have poor positioning. You cant come out of stealth and do it its super telegraphed. Anyways y’all can keep complaining about how bad my class is, its fine i want buffs. Also keep in mind im talking about magcro in “no cp battlegrounds” not open world or duels.

Th3Kumb4ya

Firstmep wrote: »

I play magcro in bgs nearly every day, non harmony build.

Icy Conj, blackrose destro/resto, skoria(although its a bit bugged atm).

I use the ranged morph of impulse to spread wild impulse dot, plonk down graveyard, spam crushing shock, profit.

The problem with takes like this, is non cp and cp are completely different. Slap a proc set on and any class will be amazing in no cp. No cp is a terrible place to get an idea for a classes strengths and weaknesses because people just slap the same proc sets on everything.

Magcro is the king of survivability, but they lack in sustain and damage. They have no good spammable, their delayed burst is untimed and the morph is useless when the ability works correctly. Their cc is good, but isn’t instant, which makes it a lot worse than other mag classes options. No execute, and they rely heavily on tethers and pets for sustain. Plus the pets aren’t cheap, and mobility is nowhere to be seen. Their ultimate is good, but can easily miss, can be dodge rolled, and costs more than meteor. A direct damage magcro is almost forced to get mages and psijic guilds, whereas no other class needs them to be competitive