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Healing changes in PvP. Good? Bad? Ugly?
red_emu
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So now that we've had a while to get used to the 20% (or 10% depending who taught you maths) healing nerf in PvP zones, how do you feel about it?
Personally, I noticed that tanky players are even tankier, ball groups have been pretty much unaffected and non-tanky players get completely destroyed and when fighting more than 1v1, they get one-shot.
I totally understand, that in a lot of cases this is an adapt and overcome (or l2p) issue. The now super weak healing can be overcome by wearing heavy armor, increasing your health pool or investing in passive health recovery.
The problem is: not every class is inherently built to provide those things.
In my opinion, the healing nerf has piegon holed a lot of players into one build or class (anyone noticed how many stam and mag sorcs there are about?). As much as I understand the reasoning of the devs for this change, I noticed it completely killed build diversity and pretty much everyone is wearing/playing the same thing.
So, do you think the healing nerf should be reversed, tuned down, increased? Tell us why you think so.
Edited by red_emu on June 29, 2020 11:23AM Personally, I noticed that tanky players are even tankier, ball groups have been pretty much unaffected and non-tanky players get completely destroyed and when fighting more than 1v1, they get one-shot.
I totally understand, that in a lot of cases this is an adapt and overcome (or l2p) issue. The now super weak healing can be overcome by wearing heavy armor, increasing your health pool or investing in passive health recovery.
The problem is: not every class is inherently built to provide those things.
In my opinion, the healing nerf has piegon holed a lot of players into one build or class (anyone noticed how many stam and mag sorcs there are about?). As much as I understand the reasoning of the devs for this change, I noticed it completely killed build diversity and pretty much everyone is wearing/playing the same thing.
So, do you think the healing nerf should be reversed, tuned down, increased? Tell us why you think so.
PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
Healing changes in PvP. Good? Bad? Ugly? 38 votes
Keep the healing debuff at 60%
21%
8 votes
Revert the healing debuff to 50%
50%
19 votes
Increase the debuff to xx%
5%
2 votes
I have a better idea! Here's why...
23%
9 votes
0
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Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a better idea! Here's why...Revert the debuff and change healing in a way that it does not scale with weapon/spell damage.9 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have a better idea! Here's why...Cross healing is and has always been the problem imo.
I am pretty used to the healing in this patch now and don't think its too bad. Maybe no cp should be -55% instead of -60% as it feels harsh there. CP it feels ok imo.
I have a few ideas...
- add a toggle in options to change your healing priority to self, meaning smart healing will heal you before anyone else. This will reduce accidental cross healing.
- reduce group size and make healing only effect group members. Encourages team work and reduces calculation performed by the server.
-add to battlespirit only allow one type of effect to be active on a player at anytime. Positive or negative. Meaning if someone else applies regen to you, the effect is refreshed. You also can't be stacked with the same type of dot. This would encourage team work in ensuring your unit has various forms of healing and damage, but can't just all spam one button. The issue is the positive effect a player may get from applying a dot or a debuff. Such as burning embers, which in 2v2, 3v3 etc... This would be an issue. Not sure what the answer for this is.1 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭Revert the healing debuff to 50%I play stamsorc and dont seem to struggle with it, but i do wish we had the old BRP daggers back, it made it easier to finish a dizzy swing before dying lol0 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a better idea! Here's why...No cp is a disaster of one shots.
One thing drove the tank meta in cp: Harmony, the ability to do so much damage with little to no tradeoffs, not tied to GCD, AOE with ease is inherently toxic. It allows for groups to stack a dozen or so 40k+ heal tanks with 1-3 harmony users to outdamage full dedicated damage builds/groupsEdited by iCaliban on June 29, 2020 2:22PM2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have a better idea! Here's why...Karmanorway wrote: »I play stamsorc and dont seem to struggle with it, but i do wish we had the old BRP daggers back, it made it easier to finish a dizzy swing before dying lol
I would have been fine with the changes if they hadn't nerfed it hard last minute 😂 it needed major protection removed.Edited by relentless_turnip on June 29, 2020 2:31PM0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭Revert the healing debuff to 50%Revert
Reduce healing from cleanse, prevent radiating regen/echoing vigor from stacking unlimited times, increase the cool down on Earthgore back to what it was, reduce the effectiveness of harmony, and reduce the healing from reviving barrier.Edited by ItsJustHashtag on June 29, 2020 2:28PM0 -
DukeDiewalker✭✭✭✭Revert the healing debuff to 50%I think this needs to be addressed differently for CP and NoCP.
In CP these healing changes are a blessing and put the broken system into a slightly better place.
In NoCP the healing nerfs are a torture. It feels even worse than it did during the absurd dot meta during Scalebreaker last year.
And straight up broken procsets like Venomous Smite and people who are abusing Snipe (mainly the forced HP desync), make it all even worse...2 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭Revert the healing debuff to 50%relentless_turnip wrote: »Karmanorway wrote: »I play stamsorc and dont seem to struggle with it, but i do wish we had the old BRP daggers back, it made it easier to finish a dizzy swing before dying lol
I would have been fine with the changes if they hadn't nerfed it hard last minute 😂 it needed major protection removed.
True but it isnt really removed, necros can spam the buff If they want, and wardens have it in their ulti. How is that for balance xD
Edit: And both classes are conveniantly behind a paywalls lol
Edited by Karmanorway on June 29, 2020 2:56PM1 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Revert the healing debuff to 50%The change is way too brutal in no cp to the point that it’s often difficult to heal against just a single dot build.0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭Revert the healing debuff to 50%DukeDiewalker wrote: »I think this needs to be addressed differently for CP and NoCP.
In CP these healing changes are a blessing and put the broken system into a slightly better place.
In NoCP the healing nerfs are a torture. It feels even worse than it did during the absurd dot meta during Scalebreaker last year.
And straight up broken procsets like Venomous Smite and people who are abusing Snipe (mainly the forced HP desync), make it all even worse...
It’s bad in both, it’s not specific to either.0 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭Keep the healing debuff at 60%DukeDiewalker wrote: »I think this needs to be addressed differently for CP and NoCP.
In CP these healing changes are a blessing and put the broken system into a slightly better place.
In NoCP the healing nerfs are a torture. It feels even worse than it did during the absurd dot meta during Scalebreaker last year.
And straight up broken procsets like Venomous Smite and people who are abusing Snipe (mainly the forced HP desync), make it all even worse...
Fully agree. In CP this is a great change. In no CP, in combination with Malacath boosted procs, it has made the game super bursty favouring the high burst / high mobility classes (sorc nb)..Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"- reduce group size and make healing only effect group members. Encourages team work and reduces calculation performed by the server."
I don't like this idea. It means healers can't really participate unless they are in a group. And yeah I know there are advantages for healers to join a group but that isn't always possible. They still need to be able to contribute.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep the healing debuff at 60%I don't mind the 60% debuff. I only play CP PvP. (Imperial City and Cyrodiil).... gave up on BGs as I do not like how my characters "feel" in No-CP.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}1 -
JackDaniell✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep the healing debuff at 60%As a solo PvP player i love the changes. I can actualy pressure down a bulky build, and have to be smart with my decision making or ill die. This patch i feel like you cant build to be "everything" as effectivly and have to choose where you specialize more, which makes running a super tank damage spec nuch more difficult now.
Ill say this tho, with the healing changes your basic mechanics become really important. Make sure you roll or block at the right time, keep that shield up, make sure you purge really bad effects right away, make sure you position yourself well ect. and utilize your unique class kits. This rewards good gameplay and punishes bad decision making.Ebonheart Templar
www.youtube.com/user/kristofersommermusic1 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I posted this earlier about the Chaos Guardian achievement. The healing nerfs coupled with the removal of group queuing makes that achievement damn near impossible.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS0 -
Khatou✭✭✭✭I have a better idea! Here's why...I may have a better idea. We posted our stories at practically the same time.
Here's my idea: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/535356/more-life-and-less-resistance-to-be-able-to-play-in-pvp-the-solution#latest0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭I have a better idea! Here's why...If generalization, 55% and reduce major defile to 20% and minor to 8%.
If battle spirit can be different for CP and NO CP. I say lets revert the changes for No CP and keep it at 60% for CP.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only2 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a better idea! Here's why...As many have stated, in cp it seems like a good change, and in no cp it’s too strong. Well this is what people said during testing so........ maybe listen zos?
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luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭A.- Many builds remain unkillable and HP still goes from 10% to 100% in a matter of seconds.
B.- You're stil gonna get trashed real fast or 1 shotted if not stacking the impen trait.
I thought this patch would truly open some build diversity on PVP, but so as far as I can tell, my builds pre and after patch remain exactly the same.
IMO these round of changes have been worthless and in PVP you gotta cookie cut and play FOTM builds as usual. Nothing new.Edited by luen79rwb17_ESO on June 29, 2020 6:13PMPC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep the healing debuff at 60%Cross healing is more of the issue. It incentivizes groups that stack RR. These groups look like a tangled mess of spider webs they’re firing off RR so often.0 -
5cript✭✭✭✭I have a better idea! Here's why...50% for self and an additional 10% reduction for allies.0