A Fourth Faction: The Imperial Legion (2020)

ServerusEcru

The original idea for Cyrodiil was to have the elder races be loyal to their respective factions, thus since players voiced about being able to play with their friends, Zos opened it to where any race can play in any faction if they buy the race token or the Imperial Edition. What this kind of did was kill the lore and original intent of the game. Albeit it pleased the people. Me being a fan of the lore and of the people, I worry about the Imperials as race. They have no secured homeland and they have no faction, pretty much being isolated from the content that was created for all the other races.

What if we created a fourth faction called: The Imperial Legion which will include a new campaign for that faction?

Who are The Imperial Legion?

The Imperial Legion is the main army of the Empire of Cyrodiil, or what remains of it. They are loyal to the one who sits on the Ruby Throne, which is currently Clivia Tharn, though Mannimarco is secretly the one from which their orders come. Another Tharn, Septima, is the Magus-General of the Imperial forces near High Rock.

During the Interregnum, the Empire fell into disarray and the Imperial Legion gradually lost control of its provinces. As a result, a large Imperial military presence can only be found in various camps throughout Cyrodiil.


So by creating this fourth faction, it will give a PvE version of Cyrodiil and explain what happened and how the Ruby Throne was corrupted--as a story. You will have the option to play three races in this campaign. Imperial, Daedra or Dremora and in doing so you can choose to be loyal to the throne or support the Imperial Legion by rebelling against Mannimarco and his corrupt influences. While the other three factions are fighting over territory, only an Imperial Blood can reign on the Ruby Throne. The Daedra and Dremora will cleverly carve their own pathway as well, finding an opportunity for mischief in this broken battlefield. And even if the races are forbidden to trust them they will fight for their own cause making the Imperial Legion a strong force to be faced in Cyrodiil.

Explaining the context of this PvE campaign.

Every Faction has a PvE campaign story. The Aldmeri Dominion has the story with Queen Ayrenn who is using a Khajiit spy to infiltrate against her enemies. The Daggerfall Covenant has the story with the High King Emeric who after winning the war against King Ranser is possessed by a Daedra spirit and loses hope in his Kingdom and the Ebonheart Pact has the story revolving around Jorunn The Skald-King who gave up his life as a bard to become a great King. What I am suggesting is to make this fair for the Imperials and create a new faction with its own unique story similar to the other three; revolving around the Imperial Legion (showing what happened before the Alliance war: like a period peace which has been done very good in ESO actually), so they can have some lore as well for that race.

Let's go in depth on the PVP side.

On the PvP side, which I did not go into depth with, was how the fourth faction will work and look. The Imperial Legion will have its own hubs (with two secured gates protecting their scrolls), similar to the other three. And being that Cyrodiil is so huge, there is enough space to slide that fourth faction in. There will be six connected home keeps, two scrolls (offensive and defensive) and one outpost as well for the Imperials. Another idea would be to have no keeps, but Imperial outposts scattered throughout Cyrodiil, that are siegeable; some can be in underground hidden areas, similar to delves, while others can be visibly seen in the realm. Their main hubs, guarding their scrolls can be protected by powerful Daedra so enemy players can not invade that area; thus they are still able to open the gates and steal their Imperial scrolls. There will be safe areas for Imperials to log in, turn in quest, etc that enemy players can not access.

You can make the Imperial Legion color black since they are in a sense the bad guys in lore, having allied with the Daedra and Dremora to protect the throne and keep in mind players will be able to play a Daedra or Dremora, as an option in that faction. This will not only create more opportunity for PvP but it will introduce new amazing builds (so that faction can be balanced and face the others) and make the playing field even. Besides no one really wants to be on an odd playing field.

Let me know your thoughts Community? Zos....

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Greasytengu

I always felt that if they 'ended' the three banners war, that it would neat if they replaced AD/DC/EP with three different Imperial factions (Nibenese, Colovian, and I guess loyalists to the old Longhouse empire) looking to take the ruby throne.

I guess in this scenario, factions wouldn't really exist for us players, we would just be mercenaries who choose who to fight for during the duration of a campaign. Other than that, gameplay and map dynamics would basically stay mostly the same.


While I do like your idea, it would likely involve completely redoing the Cyrodiil map as we know it. Currently the map is a triangle bordered by mountains/hills/water. At the moment, I don't believe there is no room for a fourth faction. Now while that is bad news for a potential fourth faction, If they ever remake Cyrodiil and add in parts of the territory that are currently missing (ex the Colovian estates to the east and the Blackwoods to the west) the map would become a square and we would have space.

Keep positioning and allocation would have to change.

I would think that in this scenario, the Emp keeps would not be considered a home keep to any faction, the uneven number would force factions to skirmish over what they assume is their keeps.

AD would likely have to be shifted to the east, perhaps abandoning Blackboot and the western Elsweyr gate and creating a new one across the niben bay. Fort gold-throat or fort Cuptor could be the replacement inner keep, though the positioning may have to be fudged a little bit.. Though shifting AD has its own issue other than keep allocation, the Niben river would divide their territory with an impassible barrier, so it might have to be 'removed' (like making it cross able on foot/mount and not bordered with steep cliffs.) And that is not even mentioning the issue of Brindle.

Faction #4 would get western Elsweyr gate and black boot, and their other gate could be near or even at Skingrad. Vlasterus could be converted into an actual keep. Speaking of towns, they would likely have to be moved/resettled or even outright changed.

There is a ton of map stuff that would need to me moved/removed/changed before a fourth faction could be introduced.

Ackwalan

PvP does not need a griefer alliance.

ServerusEcru

Greasytengu wrote: »

I always felt that if they 'ended' the three banners war, that it would neat if they replaced AD/DC/EP with three different Imperial factions (Nibenese, Colovian, and I guess loyalists to the old Longhouse empire) looking to take the ruby throne.

I guess in this scenario, factions wouldn't really exist for us players, we would just be mercenaries who choose who to fight for during the duration of a campaign. Other than that, gameplay and map dynamics would basically stay mostly the same.


While I do like your idea, it would likely involve completely redoing the Cyrodiil map as we know it. Currently the map is a triangle bordered by mountains/hills/water. At the moment, I don't believe there is no room for a fourth faction. Now while that is bad news for a potential fourth faction, If they ever remake Cyrodiil and add in parts of the territory that are currently missing (ex the Colovian estates to the east and the Blackwoods to the west) the map would become a square and we would have space.

Keep positioning and allocation would have to change.

I would think that in this scenario, the Emp keeps would not be considered a home keep to any faction, the uneven number would force factions to skirmish over what they assume is their keeps.

AD would likely have to be shifted to the east, perhaps abandoning Blackboot and the western Elsweyr gate and creating a new one across the niben bay. Fort gold-throat or fort Cuptor could be the replacement inner keep, though the positioning may have to be fudged a little bit.. Though shifting AD has its own issue other than keep allocation, the Niben river would divide their territory with an impassible barrier, so it might have to be 'removed' (like making it cross able on foot/mount and not bordered with steep cliffs.) And that is not even mentioning the issue of Brindle.

Faction #4 would get western Elsweyr gate and black boot, and their other gate could be near or even at Skingrad. Vlasterus could be converted into an actual keep. Speaking of towns, they would likely have to be moved/resettled or even outright changed.

There is a ton of map stuff that would need to me moved/removed/changed before a fourth faction could be introduced.

I appreciate your ideas. It actually gave me another idea on how The Imperial Legion could work, without taking away from other factions territories. Convert Vlasterius and all of the AvA towns, Cropsford and Bruma and turn them into special Imperial keeps. What will make these keeps unique is, the traders will still be available for any faction who can take them, making it more challenging to get Cyrodiilic gear. You will either have to play an Imperial or seige the keep to get the gear. It also allows the Imperials to have a strategic advantage since Cyrodiil is their homeland. Keep in mind there will be underground keeps that are unseigeable and act as a transitus Network for the Imperial Faction.

As for your Three Banner War, idea, this wont work because technically in lore, The Aldmeri Dominion is the only faction that wins. The other two factions are defeated. Something to consider. I recommend we make it the long war, but give the Imperial Legion an chance to slide in and create their own havoc.

idk

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

ItsJustHashtag

There are tons of imperial camps spread throughout cyrodiil. Create a shrine system within them.

ServerusEcru

idk wrote: »

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

Addressing your first issue:

That was the idea, if you read my idea thoroughly; it was to have a PVE version of Cyrodiil that is a period piece, which shows what happened before the alliance war went into affect. You will have the option to play all three races in this story. It was never just about PvP. Whilst having a proper backstory, that gives them a reason to PvP, similar to the other three factions.

Addressing your second issue:

They have the budget to include a proper fourth faction. Instead of making another boring expansion, they can profit off adding two new races; which offers more PvE content and more interesting builds for PvP and the overall gaming experience. As for Pop balance, it will excite people and they will not overload on one faction anymore, but allow an opportunity to balance it. It may attract new players, but 70% of them will not come to Cyrodiil to PvP, hence why giving them a PVE option will also balance out the PvP population.

Addressing your last point:

Again, the reason why one faction is always winning a campaign, is because too many play on it. Offering another faction, will give them an opportunity, which in the end will encourage them to leave the populated faction and spread over to the lesser ones, who are weaker. After a few months only a small percentage of players will be PvPing anyway. Many of them will go to non-CP for the acheivements. As for the keep issue, we have already mentioned that we can take all of the AvA areas and convert them into keeps, including the existing PVE Imperial camps spread out all over Cyrodiil. We can convert them to Imperial outposts. We can also include outpost inside delves to give the monster races an interesting fortification and these forts can act as a transitus network. (Maybe include a special siege hammer that can break through these fort doors underground.)

UppGRAYxDD

Ide rather see a new map then alliance...

ServerusEcru

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Ide rather see a new map then alliance...

How would a new map work? I mean the PvP in Cyrodiil is lore heavy and it is exactly created to portray the Alliance War in the Elder Scrolls timeline. Bethesda Oligarch's would flip if the map was changed lol.

idk

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

Again, the reason why one faction is always winning a campaign, is because too many play on it. Offering another faction, will give them an opportunity, which in the end will encourage them to leave the populated faction and spread over to the lesser ones, who are weaker.

You are making a huge assumption here without anything to base it on. There is no reason to expect a 4th faction would mean we have a balance between all the factions. I only quoted this part because without this there is no need for the rest of the discussion. I think this may be a big reason there is not much activity in the thread.

ServerusEcru

idk wrote: »

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

Again, the reason why one faction is always winning a campaign, is because too many play on it. Offering another faction, will give them an opportunity, which in the end will encourage them to leave the populated faction and spread over to the lesser ones, who are weaker.

You are making a huge assumption here without anything to base it on. There is no reason to expect a 4th faction would mean we have a balance between all the factions. I only quoted this part because without this there is no need for the rest of the discussion. I think this may be a big reason there is not much activity in the thread.

And by you responding to it, a second time, which was clearly not needed, it created even more activity. Thank you.

DocFrost72

I don't know if you knew this, but dremora are daedra.

Daedra refers to any creature from the planes of oblivion. To make it easier to conceptualize, think of the term "alien". Not all aliens come from the same place or look like each other. Some outright *hate* each other. But a "Martian" would be an "alien".

This really stuck out to me as whacky. As much as I'd jump at the chance to play a dremora, it'd be exceedingly challenging making that work. People wouldn't talk to you, including those in mainland cyrodiil, for fear of being kill, tortured, enslaved, a word I can't say on this forum, or have their souls removed.

Why not use the legion that is formed from outsiders (seventh, I believe?) As the base, and make any current race viable to fight for them? This wouldn't cheapen the any race any alliance upgrade more than imperials being unlocked does.

idk

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

Again, the reason why one faction is always winning a campaign, is because too many play on it. Offering another faction, will give them an opportunity, which in the end will encourage them to leave the populated faction and spread over to the lesser ones, who are weaker.

You are making a huge assumption here without anything to base it on. There is no reason to expect a 4th faction would mean we have a balance between all the factions. I only quoted this part because without this there is no need for the rest of the discussion. I think this may be a big reason there is not much activity in the thread.

And by you responding to it, a second time, which was clearly not needed, it created even more activity. Thank you.

I will say I am surprised that you chose to ignore the part where I pointed out the justification for this idea, that it would balance out all factions, is based on an assumption with no reason to think it would actually occur.

Do you have something to support this assumption? Zos should not consider such major changes without some reasonable expectations they would bring about real beneficial development.

ServerusEcru

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I don't know if you knew this, but dremora are daedra.

Daedra refers to any creature from the planes of oblivion. To make it easier to conceptualize, think of the term "alien". Not all aliens come from the same place or look like each other. Some outright *hate* each other. But a "Martian" would be an "alien".

This really stuck out to me as whacky. As much as I'd jump at the chance to play a dremora, it'd be exceedingly challenging making that work. People wouldn't talk to you, including those in mainland cyrodiil, for fear of being kill, tortured, enslaved, a word I can't say on this forum, or have their souls removed.

Why not use the legion that is formed from outsiders (seventh, I believe?) As the base, and make any current race viable to fight for them? This wouldn't cheapen the any race any alliance upgrade more than imperials being unlocked does.

Well if the devs actually considered my idea I would have suggested the obvious, a Xivilai daedric humanoid. Which in lore actually serve Molag Bal in this timeline. But thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention.

ServerusEcru

idk wrote: »

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

Again, the reason why one faction is always winning a campaign, is because too many play on it. Offering another faction, will give them an opportunity, which in the end will encourage them to leave the populated faction and spread over to the lesser ones, who are weaker.

You are making a huge assumption here without anything to base it on. There is no reason to expect a 4th faction would mean we have a balance between all the factions. I only quoted this part because without this there is no need for the rest of the discussion. I think this may be a big reason there is not much activity in the thread.

And by you responding to it, a second time, which was clearly not needed, it created even more activity. Thank you.

I will say I am surprised that you chose to ignore the part where I pointed out the justification for this idea, that it would balance out all factions, is based on an assumption with no reason to think it would actually occur.

Do you have something to support this assumption? Zos should not consider such major changes without some reasonable expectations they would bring about real beneficial development.

Because you seem to have an eye for criticism and keep bringing attention to my idea, (thank you by the way), know that I have been PvPing in Cyrodiil since 2014, as a Beta supporter. I have seen the good, bad and ugly side of Cyrodiil and what I see now is 2 factions working together in a large population and one faction losing because they do not have enough numbers to fight back. Try logging into the man CP campaign and studying it. I am just really tired of seeing EP and AD constantly beat up on DC. It is very unbalanced the way it is and it seems DC is stuck in the middle with no one to take the slack off them. DC tries to defend one keep and the opposite faction sieges their other keep and they lose everything and end up in last place (At least this is our reality on the NA/PC 30 day CP server). You don't have to be an Einstein to figure this out. Having a fourth faction will give the big factions someone else to pick on. And it will also intrigue knew players and old and the idea, I guarantee will bring in more players. Because its something new; people will be curious and interested. And people love playing the bad guys.

As for Zos benefiting, as I mentioned there will be an entire new PvE campaign, for The Imperials. This is something they know will bring in huge profit, because a majority of players love PVE. Something to consider. Give them a story and PvE and players will buy it, having these new races for PvP is only icing on the cake. ESO is already overpopulated. This content will be a win win for them.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

idk

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The first issue is dremora and daedra would need to be full class or race choices for players to be able to play them. It cannot be restricted to PvP. That brings up the second issue that they do not fit into the player side of the game as they should always be recognizable as evil. Necromancers, vampires, and WWs need to hide what they are from city folk for that reason.

Then there is the issue of populating that faction. There is no storyline, no home PvE area for this 4th faction. It would have to be jimmy-rigged in some odd manner to bring it about. If the means is to have players opt to be in when they choose the campaign then that is what a great many will choose because it is new, creating an imbalance until pop cap is reached.

The last point is the pop caps of the existing three factions would have to be lower than they currently are in PvP for server performance issues. They need to be lowered by 25%. That also means there is really no room to add more keeps to the map, and certainly, the area cannot be expanded. The map was designed for a significantly larger population than we currently see. Thinning things out further seems detrimental to gameplay since we will still end up at the same few keeps.

Again, the reason why one faction is always winning a campaign, is because too many play on it. Offering another faction, will give them an opportunity, which in the end will encourage them to leave the populated faction and spread over to the lesser ones, who are weaker.

You are making a huge assumption here without anything to base it on. There is no reason to expect a 4th faction would mean we have a balance between all the factions. I only quoted this part because without this there is no need for the rest of the discussion. I think this may be a big reason there is not much activity in the thread.

And by you responding to it, a second time, which was clearly not needed, it created even more activity. Thank you.

I will say I am surprised that you chose to ignore the part where I pointed out the justification for this idea, that it would balance out all factions, is based on an assumption with no reason to think it would actually occur.

Do you have something to support this assumption? Zos should not consider such major changes without some reasonable expectations they would bring about real beneficial development.

Because you seem to have an eye for criticism and keep bringing attention to my idea, (thank you by the way), know that I have been PvPing in Cyrodiil since 2014, as a Beta supporter. I have seen the good, bad and ugly side of Cyrodiil and what I see now is 2 factions working together in a large population and one faction losing because they do not have enough numbers to fight back. Try logging into the man CP campaign and studying it. I am just really tired of seeing EP and AD constantly beat up on DC. It is very unbalanced the way it is and it seems DC is stuck in the middle with no one to take the slack off them. DC tries to defend one keep and the opposite faction sieges their other keep and they lose everything and end up in last place (At least this is our reality on the NA/PC 30 day CP server). You don't have to be an Einstein to figure this out. Having a fourth faction will give the big factions someone else to pick on. And it will also intrigue knew players and old and the idea, I guarantee will bring in more players. Because its something new; people will be curious and interested. And people love playing the bad guys.

As for Zos benefiting, as I mentioned there will be an entire new PvE campaign, for The Imperials. This is something they know will bring in huge profit, because a majority of players love PVE. Something to consider. Give them a story and PvE and players will buy it, having these new races for PvP is only icing on the cake. ESO is already overpopulated. This content will be a win win for them.

Hey, I too have been around Cyrodiil since beta. Most often in the busiest campaigns. I have seen the lack of balance which mostly comes from Cyordiil not being designed to be balanced. Cyrodiill was never designed to be truly a competitive PvP environment.

It is good that we have gotten to the crux of the idea presented here. It is not about balance, as I pointed out it would not likely create, but more about a distraction or having something else to do in Cryodiil.

Have a good day.

Fur_like_snow

End the three banner war and bring home the troops. We need a new PvP DLC with a new map it’s time to progress the story Cyrodiil is old we need something fresh and new.

MaisonNaevius

I love the Empire. I love the Imperial Legion. But my opinion is as follows: no.

Because in the evolution of the game, the Empire in Cyrodiil (2E 582) and the Empire at the time of Elsweyr (2E 582 - 587) is no longer the same.
There are many questions surrounding the future of Clivia Tharn. Or even the degree of implication of each count in Coalescence.
With Chancellor Abnur Tharn who declares having reconquered lands for the Empire or the imperials who reoccupy the IC at the end of Imperial City DLC, the Empire knows a new breath as it was declared dying in the basic game.

We cannot have on one side the Empire which returned to its values (PvE zone with Colovian Estates: Skingrad - Sutch - Sarchal / or with Nibenay: Ato - Bravil - Mir Corrup - Leyawiin) and at the same time embody a Empire in decline at the time of the Alliance War. (All of this remains to be verified in local PvE geopolitical intrigues).

And then ... The Empire faction does not necessarily mean the Imperial Legion. The Legion is an institution of the Empire, but there are probably other armies or militias fighting on behalf of the Empire.

There will also be the problem of the balance between the factions (number of forts, resources, outposts and villages by default). Everything would have to be reviewed outside it is impossible. Because each of its elements is in the lore, we cannot invent and add things that do not exist.

DocFrost72

ServerusEcru wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I don't know if you knew this, but dremora are daedra.

Daedra refers to any creature from the planes of oblivion. To make it easier to conceptualize, think of the term "alien". Not all aliens come from the same place or look like each other. Some outright *hate* each other. But a "Martian" would be an "alien".

This really stuck out to me as whacky. As much as I'd jump at the chance to play a dremora, it'd be exceedingly challenging making that work. People wouldn't talk to you, including those in mainland cyrodiil, for fear of being kill, tortured, enslaved, a word I can't say on this forum, or have their souls removed.

Why not use the legion that is formed from outsiders (seventh, I believe?) As the base, and make any current race viable to fight for them? This wouldn't cheapen the any race any alliance upgrade more than imperials being unlocked does.

Well if the devs actually considered my idea I would have suggested the obvious, a Xivilai daedric humanoid. Which in lore actually serve Molag Bal in this timeline. But thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention.

Thank you for clearing that up, because it could easily have read as playable daedroth, clanfear, or twilights. For the record I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but balancing and technical limitations would kill that sort of idea right off the bat.

How would you work around the second half of my post, though? (For convenience):

This really stuck out to me as whacky. As much as I'd jump at the chance to play a dremora, it'd be exceedingly challenging making that work. People wouldn't talk to you, including those in mainland cyrodiil, for fear of being killed, tortured, enslaved, a word I can't say on this forum, or have their souls removed.

Wing

i have always wanted (and submitted to the devs) a fourth faction based out of the broken IC bridges, though my personal idea was for daedra based around lotro monster play, as that was probobly the most fun mmo pvp i have ever played, as well as being strategically very similar to ESO.

ServerusEcru

Maki2859 wrote: »

I love the Empire. I love the Imperial Legion. But my opinion is as follows: no.

Because in the evolution of the game, the Empire in Cyrodiil (2E 582) and the Empire at the time of Elsweyr (2E 582 - 587) is no longer the same.
There are many questions surrounding the future of Clivia Tharn. Or even the degree of implication of each count in Coalescence.
With Chancellor Abnur Tharn who declares having reconquered lands for the Empire or the imperials who reoccupy the IC at the end of Imperial City DLC, the Empire knows a new breath as it was declared dying in the basic game.

We cannot have on one side the Empire which returned to its values (PvE zone with Colovian Estates: Skingrad - Sutch - Sarchal / or with Nibenay: Ato - Bravil - Mir Corrup - Leyawiin) and at the same time embody a Empire in decline at the time of the Alliance War. (All of this remains to be verified in local PvE geopolitical intrigues).

And then ... The Empire faction does not necessarily mean the Imperial Legion. The Legion is an institution of the Empire, but there are probably other armies or militias fighting on behalf of the Empire.

There will also be the problem of the balance between the factions (number of forts, resources, outposts and villages by default). Everything would have to be reviewed outside it is impossible. Because each of its elements is in the lore, we cannot invent and add things that do not exist.

I can counter one of your arguments by stating the intentions of my original idea.

What I am suggesting is to make this fair for the Imperials and create a new faction with its own unique story similar to the other three; revolving around the Imperial Legion (showing what happened before the Alliance war: like a period peace which has been done very good in ESO actually), so they can have some lore as well for that race.

So it would not be a campaign focusing on the current timeline of the game. From my experiences with ESO, the period pieces have been the best storytelling and the most fun.

As for the PvP side, I did mention turning the AVA territories into Imperial Legion hubs. Which are all in lore. And also your point is real subjective because there are some keeps that are not in the original Cyrodiil lore but added for the game. Example: Zos may have taken a rock or a cave that was in Oblivion, like Glademist and converted it into a keep for the game. Something to consider.

idk

Maki2859 wrote: »

I love the Empire. I love the Imperial Legion. But my opinion is as follows: no.

Because in the evolution of the game, the Empire in Cyrodiil (2E 582) and the Empire at the time of Elsweyr (2E 582 - 587) is no longer the same.
There are many questions surrounding the future of Clivia Tharn. Or even the degree of implication of each count in Coalescence.
With Chancellor Abnur Tharn who declares having reconquered lands for the Empire or the imperials who reoccupy the IC at the end of Imperial City DLC, the Empire knows a new breath as it was declared dying in the basic game.

We cannot have on one side the Empire which returned to its values (PvE zone with Colovian Estates: Skingrad - Sutch - Sarchal / or with Nibenay: Ato - Bravil - Mir Corrup - Leyawiin) and at the same time embody a Empire in decline at the time of the Alliance War. (All of this remains to be verified in local PvE geopolitical intrigues).

And then ... The Empire faction does not necessarily mean the Imperial Legion. The Legion is an institution of the Empire, but there are probably other armies or militias fighting on behalf of the Empire.

There will also be the problem of the balance between the factions (number of forts, resources, outposts and villages by default). Everything would have to be reviewed outside it is impossible. Because each of its elements is in the lore, we cannot invent and add things that do not exist.

These are very good points. It makes no sense to make it "fair" for the Empire as OP is stating when our story tells us they are in disarray.

And you are correct about the balance of resources on the map which is more than just the hubs as OP seems to think.

More importantly, the basis for the suggestion being presented is to bring balance between the factions even though nothing has been presented to demonstrate balance between the factions would actually occur.

I have asked OP to support the idea this would bring about the balance and have yet to receive an answer other than thanks for bringing attention to their idea.

MaisonNaevius

There are many points which I disagree with the author.

If an "Empire" faction were to emerge, we would need PvE regions to understand the local context. And as the game evolves, the Empire we see in the first zones and the one we see in the last regions are different.

Even if this deserves more clarification in the imperial regions not affected by the war (and where the Empire remains powerful), the Planemeld is ended and the Daedric occupation almost wiped out or even ended.

There will therefore be no possibility of forming an alliance with imperials and daedras. The daedras being, and having always been enemies of the Empire.
Legions are loyal to Clivia Tharn. Except that it was a usurper who ruled but no one could know.

As for the imperial-Daedric alliance of the Seventh Legion, it was not systematic for all the Legions.
> The Second Legion suspected a Daedric plot. The West Weald Legion had only legionaries themselves surprised that their commander was working with a Daedric sect.

Today, an imperial faction would involve only the imperials. The important question: Are Colovia and Nibenay always together? Or are they divided?

The PvE intrigues linked to the imperial regions will be in chronological continuity of the previous extensions. And to date, Chancellor Abnur Tharn has declared that the Empire is in good shape again and traces of Daedric influence seem to have been completely removed.

There will necessarily be political plots. Watch the last Chapters. And look at the antagonistic profile of count of Skingrad. There will undoubtedly be something with that.

And then three factions are more than enough. There is no need for a fourth faction.
Especially when the Empire no longer has the same face in PvP (2E 582) and in the last PvE zones (2E 582 +).

ServerusEcru

Maki2859 wrote: »

There are many points which I disagree with the author.

If an "Empire" faction were to emerge, we would need PvE regions to understand the local context. And as the game evolves, the Empire we see in the first zones and the one we see in the last regions are different.

Even if this deserves more clarification in the imperial regions not affected by the war (and where the Empire remains powerful), the Planemeld is ended and the Daedric occupation almost wiped out or even ended.

There will therefore be no possibility of forming an alliance with imperials and daedras. The daedras being, and having always been enemies of the Empire.
Legions are loyal to Clivia Tharn. Except that it was a usurper who ruled but no one could know.

As for the imperial-Daedric alliance of the Seventh Legion, it was not systematic for all the Legions.
> The Second Legion suspected a Daedric plot. The West Weald Legion had only legionaries themselves surprised that their commander was working with a Daedric sect.

Today, an imperial faction would involve only the imperials. The important question: Are Colovia and Nibenay always together? Or are they divided?

The PvE intrigues linked to the imperial regions will be in chronological continuity of the previous extensions. And to date, Chancellor Abnur Tharn has declared that the Empire is in good shape again and traces of Daedric influence seem to have been completely removed.

There will necessarily be political plots. Watch the last Chapters. And look at the antagonistic profile of count of Skingrad. There will undoubtedly be something with that.

And then three factions are more than enough. There is no need for a fourth faction.
Especially when the Empire no longer has the same face in PvP (2E 582) and in the last PvE zones (2E 582 +).

Again the story would be unique from the other three factions, because it will be a historical account that occurred in Cyrodill, before the timeline that you have presented, even before the Alliance war itself. We never seen what really happened from Clivia Tharn's POV. All we know is she is the villain and the Imperial race has no identity and is in scrambles because of her decisions to ally with the Daedra. My idea will offer content from the villains perspective, a fresh new PVE story and more intriguing lore to discover.

idk wrote: »

I have asked OP to support the idea this would bring about the balance and have yet to receive an answer other than thanks for bringing attention to their idea.

I already explained to you my theory of how it will balance the server. There does not have to be any mathematical exegesis to try and determine the results. New content brings in new players and people will want to play what is new. Albeit there will be those few who are loyal, like myself, who will stay on the Daggerfall Covenant faction, but those who love to hop factions, which are the majority of PvPers will go where the new content is. This kind of vision does not require math but vision.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

idk

ServerusEcru wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I have asked OP to support the idea this would bring about the balance and have yet to receive an answer other than thanks for bringing attention to their idea.

I already explained to you my theory of how it will balance the server. There does not have to be any mathematical exegesis to try and determine the results. New content brings in new players and people will want to play what is new. Albeit there will be those few who are loyal, like myself, who will stay on the Daggerfall Covenant faction, but those who love to hop factions, which are the majority of PvPers will go where the new content is. This kind of vision does not require math but vision.

There is no reason to think that adding another faction choice to Cyrodiil would do anything to bring about a balance between the factions. Heck, "faction hoppers" do not create the imbalance so the notion that the faction hoppers going to the new "content" faction will solve the issue does not pass the smell test.

We know for a fact faction hoppers are not the issue because there has been faction imbalance has been in Cyrodiil since day one when there was faction lock on all campaigns and still persists in faction lock campaigns. This should be obvious to someone who has played this Cyrodiil since before launch. Still not seeing the vision.

MaisonNaevius

There is no point in finding out what happened there. We already know it and guess it.
The intrigue of the three alliances takes place in 2E 582. We do not need to go back to find out the why of the how with the imperials. It is a long journey that started with Leovic's declaration to legalize the worship of Daedra then a process that accelerated during the formation of the Five Companions.

On the contrary, it would be much more interesting to find out what is going on after the Planemeld.
During the Planemeld: we already see it with two legions in Bangkoraï, Reaper March, in Cyrodiil, in Imperial City and the dialogues of NPCs.

I don't understand the reason for your deep desire to go back when we already know how it was.
In this case, the new intrigue launched by Abnur Tharn would be ignored.

Since at least Orsinium, we have passed a cape. The main story, the story of the Imperial City ... marked the end of the Planemeld.
Dark Anchors no longer appear from Orsinium. You can see ruins of the dolmens on Raidelorn.

It would be much more interesting to see the Empire back on its feet, without Daedric occupation, and led by Chancellor Abnur Tharn.
An Empire that has had time to rebuild, an Empire where Carolus' Gold Coast was able to join Abnur ... While the three alliances are out of breath and the Imperial Chancellor is negotiating a peace.

Qbiken

Would love to see a 4th rogue like faction in Cyrodil. I say bring it on

ServerusEcru

Maki2859 wrote: »

There is no point in finding out what happened there. We already know it and guess it.
The intrigue of the three alliances takes place in 2E 582. We do not need to go back to find out the why of the how with the imperials. It is a long journey that started with Leovic's declaration to legalize the worship of Daedra then a process that accelerated during the formation of the Five Companions.

On the contrary, it would be much more interesting to find out what is going on after the Planemeld.
During the Planemeld: we already see it with two legions in Bangkoraï, Reaper March, in Cyrodiil, in Imperial City and the dialogues of NPCs.

I don't understand the reason for your deep desire to go back when we already know how it was.
In this case, the new intrigue launched by Abnur Tharn would be ignored.

Since at least Orsinium, we have passed a cape. The main story, the story of the Imperial City ... marked the end of the Planemeld.
Dark Anchors no longer appear from Orsinium. You can see ruins of the dolmens on Raidelorn.

It would be much more interesting to see the Empire back on its feet, without Daedric occupation, and led by Chancellor Abnur Tharn.
An Empire that has had time to rebuild, an Empire where Carolus' Gold Coast was able to join Abnur ... While the three alliances are out of breath and the Imperial Chancellor is negotiating a peace.

This is all subjective, but I appreciate your input. I think for many of us, we enjoy the historical context of The Elder Scrolls, this is why the setting in ESO originally fascinated me. It is a period piece of the RPG single player stories. Have a good day.

Dreyloch

Didn't feel like reading entire thread, but just glancing over the original post I get what the OP wants. I've always thought it would be cool if there was an NPC based 4th faction that could shake things up all over the map. I mean. We have these huge daedric portals that open up in the sky. Why not drop some heavy duty NPC's onto the battlefield to take down keeps or simply get keeps "lit". Total RNG wise of course.

This could spread out players all over trying to reclaim what the NPC's take. Have a semi-trial boss that drops gear thrown in. THAT would be something to behold!

Stx

As an Imperial player in every TES game, I am all for adding a PvE version of Cyrodiil or expanding on the non-evil imperials left by giving them more story, quests, etc.

However, the foundation for the map and the war shouldn't change. My characters have always been in the DC as imperials. I simply play them as Imperials loyal to Cyrodiil but refuse to fight for the corrupted ranks that currently hold the throne. But I fight for the covenant because I most agree with their ideals and culture I guess.

After 5 years of playing this, DC zones just feel like home to me.

It would be cool if they added a chapter focused on good imperials re-establishing the empire but I'm not sure how they would do that and keep the pvp zone functioning.

Algorax

Ackwalan wrote: »

PvP does not need a griefer alliance.

Pvp doesn't need players who say what PvP needs...