Stadia Players and No add-ons

itsfatbass

So just for [snip] and giggles I linked my ESO account to Stadia and logged in. Was thinking this may be a very convenient way to do my writs etc from any regular old browser. I very quickly discovered, Stadia does NOT SUPPORT ADD ONS! So there will now literally be a % of the playerbase, playing ON PC, that simply CANNOT have add ons for ESO. Seems a bit baity, imagine filling a vet trial sign up roster and half the players can't run Codes or Raid Notifier! OMEGALOL

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Alienoutlaw

good players dont need a crutch

itsfatbass

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Disagree 100%. Good players will ABSOLUTELY run add ons. Essentially EVERY vet trial guild REQUIRES their attendees to run them. This is strictly PC speaking, any console players should probably not comment here.

Tandor

To be fair, most PC players have known this before signing up to Stadia. Any performance improvements noted by them - if they happen - should take this into account.

itsfatbass

Tandor wrote: »

To be fair, most PC players have known this before signing up to Stadia. Any performance improvements noted by them - if they happen - should take this into account.

Highly unlikely this will EVER be a QOL change. Much for the same reason it is not an option for Xbox or Playstation.

cheemers

itsfatbass wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Disagree 100%. Good players will ABSOLUTELY run add ons. Essentially EVERY vet trial guild REQUIRES their attendees to run them. This is strictly PC speaking, any console players should probably not comment here.

Stadia PC players may actually have to learn mechanics of trials rather than have them blare out from an add on? Oh the indignity!

Welcome to the rest of us, playing the actual game and not breezing through on easy mode.

Nestor

I doubt anyone running Vet Trials is going to do so on the extended Lag and 30FPS playing experience that is Stadia.

itsfatbass

cheemers wrote: »

itsfatbass wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Disagree 100%. Good players will ABSOLUTELY run add ons. Essentially EVERY vet trial guild REQUIRES their attendees to run them. This is strictly PC speaking, any console players should probably not comment here.

Stadia PC players may actually have to learn mechanics of trials rather than have them blare out from an add on? Oh the indignity!

You're missing the point. It will literally create an us vs. them within the game. Your stance on add ons seems bitter and ignorant. Add ons makes a player BETTER at the game and mechanics, the very opposite of what you're blaring here.

DreamsUnderStars

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

We use tools not crutches.

DreamsUnderStars

Just imagine logging onto to Stadia and doing writs on 9 characters without Lazy Crafter...

deLioncourt

I doubt any of the 6 ESO players using Stadia will ever set foot in a trial.

Elsonso

Just a comment for discussion... Stadia could run their own add-ons that extend the ESO UI and are unavailable to normal PC and console players. They are just running a (modified?) PC client. I doubt they would do this, and probably never with third-party software, but it could be done.

GenjiraX

I was hoping to be able to do admin, like crafting writs, on Stadia while in bed or whatever so I felt a little let down. I'm using it to level characters up a bit and, once the free Pro trial is over, I might not use it much.

Tandor

itsfatbass wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

To be fair, most PC players have known this before signing up to Stadia. Any performance improvements noted by them - if they happen - should take this into account.

Highly unlikely this will EVER be a QOL change. Much for the same reason it is not an option for Xbox or Playstation.

I totally agree. Not sure why you quoted me to make that point.

Emma_Overload

Elsonso wrote: »

Just a comment for discussion... Stadia could run their own add-ons that extend the ESO UI and are unavailable to normal PC and console players. They are just running a (modified?) PC client. I doubt they would do this, and probably never with third-party software, but it could be done.

I think a more likely scenario would be ZOS adding an add-on "store" to the PC base game. It would be more work for them to code and moderate, but other game devs have done it. Doesn't Steam have something like this?

The Uninvited

The only addon I really cannot do without is a mini-map, which should be base game in my opinion.

Kiralyn2000

itsfatbass wrote: »

You're missing the point. It will literally create an us vs. them within the game.

Why do you think there'll be so many Stadia players?

This isn't a big deal, it's total "mountain out of a molehill" territory.

WhyMustItBe

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Just a comment for discussion... Stadia could run their own add-ons that extend the ESO UI and are unavailable to normal PC and console players. They are just running a (modified?) PC client. I doubt they would do this, and probably never with third-party software, but it could be done.

I think a more likely scenario would be ZOS adding an add-on "store" to the PC base game. It would be more work for them to code and moderate, but other game devs have done it. Doesn't Steam have something like this?

Anything to get addon authors some love and well deserved revenue stream. I swear, they are the most abused and disrespected class of content creators in the entire digital world. They do often far more work than it takes to record some video or talk about their opinion, and spend more time doing it, requiring significant skill and specialized knowledge, and for that companies have ignored them and given them nothing for years.

Look at the author of ENB, Boris Vorontsov. He has improved countless games for more than a decade with his free graphics extender programs, and yet he is shacked up with family, never able to afford his own apartment, or a car, or any sort of quality of life. None of these billion dollar companies saw fit to sponsor his efforts with even the most minuscule of gestures for artificially extending the life of their cash cows by years. Meanwhile people like [snip] rant and rage and scream and curse and contribute very little of substance to the world, and for that companies and streaming platforms reward him with $100,000's of dollars!

It is a disgrace [snip]

[snip]

Too many people seem to think addon authors are slaves their to do their bidding. You wouldn't hear people raging about having to pay $5 for an app on their drone phone. Yet the very idea of trying to get addon authors some reward and INCENTIVE to do their valuable work leads practically to pitchfork riots of utter selfish rage every time it is proposed.

[snip] Addon authors have been exploited and abandoned for decades by the gaming industry while Twitch ragers and youtubers prosper and it is absolutely abhorrent, selfish, greedy, and unfair.

[Edited to remove Bashing ans Conspiracy Theories]

Elsonso

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Just a comment for discussion... Stadia could run their own add-ons that extend the ESO UI and are unavailable to normal PC and console players. They are just running a (modified?) PC client. I doubt they would do this, and probably never with third-party software, but it could be done.

I think a more likely scenario would be ZOS adding an add-on "store" to the PC base game. It would be more work for them to code and moderate, but other game devs have done it. Doesn't Steam have something like this?

Bethesda has this, so yes, I am sure they would love to collect on that action with ZOS and ESO. Future ZOS games may have that built in, like BGS games have it built in, today.

The Uninvited wrote: »

The only addon I really cannot do without is a mini-map, which should be base game in my opinion.

Oddly enough, the minimap is already in the base game. ZOS could turn it on any time they wanted to devote the effort to it.

zacvanm

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Agree 100%. I’ve played on console since it was available. I’m not a casual player. I don’t have add-ons clearly. My brother plays this game on PC. I messed around on it with add-ons one day and holy *** is this game gravy with them. Add-ons are OP carry IMO

WhyMustItBe

zacvanm wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Agree 100%. I’ve played on console since it was available. I’m not a casual player. I don’t have add-ons clearly. My brother plays this game on PC. I messed around on it with add-ons one day and holy *** is this game gravy with them. Add-ons are OP carry IMO

I think that's a tad ignorant of the sheer scope of addons available. A significant percentage of them, possibly even the majority, have NOTHING to do with raid performance or combat advantages or PVP or anything like that. A huge amount deal with SAVING PEOPLE TIME.

Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter is an obvious example. Sure you could sit there scrolling through menus at each crafting station to manually find and craft the writ requirements for each craft station (taking something like 10 minutes or more per character to do them all, if you're fast), and try doing that on multiple characters each day.

The question people should ask themselves is not "are addons good or bad" or "are addons just a crutch." What a reasonable person should ask themselves, as with considering use of any technology or tool, is HOW VALUABLE IS MY TIME.

If you are rich and have no cares in the world, and so can afford to sit for hours doing crafting quests or other such activities then hey more power to ya. I just think it is a little irresponsible to act like you have an objective opinion on the subject.

More convenience and time saving is always a good thing.

Kiralyn2000

Eh, it all depends on the addons. Some of them just tweak the UI to your preference, or take notes for you (instead of writing them on paper). Not everything is a "this tells you when to dodge" combat mod.

(Like - I use Sous Chef, which marks which recipes I've already learned, even across characters. Doesn't help or change my gameplay at all.)

Tandor

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

zacvanm wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Agree 100%. I’ve played on console since it was available. I’m not a casual player. I don’t have add-ons clearly. My brother plays this game on PC. I messed around on it with add-ons one day and holy *** is this game gravy with them. Add-ons are OP carry IMO

I think that's a tad ignorant of the sheer scope of addons available. A significant percentage of them, possibly even the majority, have NOTHING to do with raid performance or combat advantages or PVP or anything like that. A huge amount deal with SAVING PEOPLE TIME.

Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter is an obvious example. Sure you could sit there scrolling through menus at each crafting station to manually find and craft the writ requirements for each craft station (taking something like 10 minutes or more per character to do them all, if you're fast), and try doing that on multiple characters each day.

The question people should ask themselves is not "are addons good or bad" or "are addons just a crutch." What a reasonable person should ask themselves, as with considering use of any technology or tool, is HOW VALUABLE IS MY TIME.

If you are rich and have no cares in the world, and so can afford to sit for hours doing crafting quests or other such activities then hey more power to ya. I just think it is a little irresponsible to act like you have an objective opinion on the subject.

More convenience and time saving is always a good thing.

Well if your time was that valuable, you wouldn't spend it playing computer games, would you?

Players who don't look to cut corners all the time aren't necessarily rich and without cares in the world, they just want to play a game without having their hand held through it. They explore a zone to get the skyshards and lorebooks, they don't feel the need to have their locations pointed out to them the minute they enter the zone for the first time. And you know what? They don't complain the whole time about how quick and easy the content is !

CMDR_Un1k0rn

I refuse to believe console players don't have a map open on there phone to see where Skyshards are. Literally everyone I knew on Xbox did this. Same for books. Same for quests.

Kiralyn2000

Tandor wrote: »

Well if your time was that valuable, you wouldn't spend it playing computer games, would you?

Players who don't look to cut corners all the time aren't necessarily rich and without cares in the world, they just want to play a game without having their hand held through it. They explore a zone to get the skyshards and lorebooks, they don't feel the need to have their locations pointed out to them the minute they enter the zone for the first time.

Of course, that's not just an addon thing - Brady game guides and Gamefaqs have existed for decades. A skyshard or lorebook addon is just a more convenient option than having a guide open (either a book/printout, or another window) next to you.

So it's "people who would use a guide" vs "not", rather than simply "addons bad!" /shrug


edit: hmm, that'd be an interesting (but niche) addon variant - combine Harvestmap (which notes down where you've found resource nodes) with Skyshards, to get an addon that'll mark down Skyshard locations for your other characters, but only once you've found them yourself.

Tandor

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I refuse to believe console players don't have a map open on there phone to see where Skyshards are. Literally everyone I knew on Xbox did this. Same for books. Same for quests.

Some may well do so, but not necessarily all. After all, not all PC players use add-ons, especially the ones that provide the locations of things they'd rather find for themselves.

heaven13

Tandor wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

zacvanm wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Agree 100%. I’ve played on console since it was available. I’m not a casual player. I don’t have add-ons clearly. My brother plays this game on PC. I messed around on it with add-ons one day and holy *** is this game gravy with them. Add-ons are OP carry IMO

I think that's a tad ignorant of the sheer scope of addons available. A significant percentage of them, possibly even the majority, have NOTHING to do with raid performance or combat advantages or PVP or anything like that. A huge amount deal with SAVING PEOPLE TIME.

Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter is an obvious example. Sure you could sit there scrolling through menus at each crafting station to manually find and craft the writ requirements for each craft station (taking something like 10 minutes or more per character to do them all, if you're fast), and try doing that on multiple characters each day.

The question people should ask themselves is not "are addons good or bad" or "are addons just a crutch." What a reasonable person should ask themselves, as with considering use of any technology or tool, is HOW VALUABLE IS MY TIME.

If you are rich and have no cares in the world, and so can afford to sit for hours doing crafting quests or other such activities then hey more power to ya. I just think it is a little irresponsible to act like you have an objective opinion on the subject.

More convenience and time saving is always a good thing.

Well if your time was that valuable, you wouldn't spend it playing computer games, would you?

Players who don't look to cut corners all the time aren't necessarily rich and without cares in the world, they just want to play a game without having their hand held through it. They explore a zone to get the skyshards and lorebooks, they don't feel the need to have their locations pointed out to them the minute they enter the zone for the first time. And you know what? They don't complain the whole time about how quick and easy the content is !

Yikes.

richo262

Honestly, if ZOS had an addon store, where addon authors get a share I wouldn't object if the following was in place.

A proper system for crown/gold exchange rather than using gifting system.

Addons cost crowns, not $$.

For subs with excess crowns this is just a method of making gold, for players that don't sub, or have spent their crowns, this is a method of spending gold (other peoples crowns).

The problem would be, what if an addon author makes a whole load of sales, then abandons their project and the next chapter breaks it? Quality control and consumer rights per jurisdiction may become a nightmare. So addons will need to be cheap and I also wouldn't expect the author to get the lions share of the sale.

Presently ZOS has crown crates as a crown sink. ZOS keeps 100% of the revenue from the sunk crowns and most crowns are generated from a monthly sub, of which ZOS keeps 100%. If an addon store was introduced as a new crown sink, that is now ZOS competing with ZOS.

Furthermore, many addons have been made obsolete over the years, just recently, multicraft. What happens to people that purchase an addon such as multicraft only for it to become redundant?

---

The better solution would be to simply have a free addon store in game, with the option of donating crowns or gold to the author. Perhaps a even a Paypal link with a clear disconnect between ZOS and the author. That way the user is clear in the understanding they are not purchasing anything, they are not owed anything, and it could still break at any time with an update.

A built in addon store that favorites addons and cloud syncs user data and automatically pulls/purges dependencies would be great. For stadia users it would essentially be a copy of ESO with all addons present but not activated, meaning Stadia users won't need Minion or access to the back end, the client Stadia users use already has them all installed, the addon store is simply a matter of activating particular addons.

DreamsUnderStars

Another nightmare: Running multiple trading guilds without addons.

You can scoff and call them crutches if you like, but they are tools.

It'd be like laughing at race cars drivers saying: "Real racers use the Panhard-Levassor engine" (first engine to be used in a car race in 1895).

Sibenice

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

good players dont need a crutch

Part of what makes top players, top players is their willingness to do anything they need to stay up there. Could they do content without helpers and such? Absolutely. But if using them can give them an edge, they will absolutely use them. There's no embarrassment. No calling them crutches.

The only people who felt that way about using addons were the mid tier players. Or, at least that was how it was when I raided hardcore in WoW. Which, was a while back, but I doubt the attitudes have really changed all that much.

Danikat

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Eh, it all depends on the addons. Some of them just tweak the UI to your preference, or take notes for you (instead of writing them on paper). Not everything is a "this tells you when to dodge" combat mod.

(Like - I use Sous Chef, which marks which recipes I've already learned, even across characters. Doesn't help or change my gameplay at all.)

Agreed. It always bothers me when people simplify the discussion down to talking about the number of addons used, as if it's armour pieces or something and each one simplifies combat by an equal amount, until at some point it's practically automated.

I once had someone insist that with 15 addons it must be impossible for me to see the game through all the UI spam, and I must be incapable of fighting anything without the game telling me when and how to do it. They utterly refused to believe any of the addons I use could be for anything except telling me how to fight. In reality only 2 of them are combat related; Srendarr which adds buff and debuff trackers and Azurah which adds things like colour-coded names to identify enemies, but I mainly use it to move and resize the default UI so there's actually less stuff covering the screen.

My full addon list if anyone is curious:

• Advanced Filters - Adds sub categories to the inventory and bank UI.
• Azurah - See link for a full list, I mainly use it to move and shink the UI and colour-code NPC names.
• Banker Shutup - As it says, this mutes bankers but also adds mute buttons to other NPCs.
• Binder - Copies key bindings between characters.
• Collectable Most Recently Used - Puts the collectables you use most recently at the top of the list, which is great for seperating the ones I actually use out from the ones I never use.
• Craftstore - Tracks various crafting related info, but I mainly use it to check which motifs, recipes etc. my crafter needs.
• Crafting Quick Access - Adds drop-down menus for item type, motif etc. to the crafting menus.
• Hide House Previews - Gets rid of all those annoying unowned house icons.
• Inventory Insight - Lets me see what my other characters have without logging into each of them.
• Minimap - Enables the existing in-game mini map.
• pChat - Copies chat settings between characters automatically.
• Quest Map - Shows where quest starters are. I only turn it on when I think I've finished a map to check for ones I've missed.
• Random Mount - Swaps your mount and pet automatically when you change areas.
• Srendarr - Adds buff and debuff trackers for you and your target. I know this is in the base game UI now, but I prefer this one.
• Tamriel Trade Centre - Adds price estimates to item UI, and lets me scan guild stores for the website.

I've never felt like I wanted or needed more info in-combat, I don't even use the base game combat text because I'd never look at it, but the menus frequently irritate me. Even then the only addons I really don't like playing without are Inventory Insight and the mini map (I have no sense of direction), closely followed by Azurah because without it the default UI looks messy to me. Those are the ones I'd miss most if I had to play without addons.

Unfortunately that leaves Stadia in a difficult position. The combination of lag and the fact that if I was using it I'd most likely be on my phone makes combat impractical, and the lack of addons makes non-combat tasks like sorting out my inventory and crafting impractical, which leaves me no reason to use it except maybe to log in when I'm away from home in a month when I don't want to miss the login rewards.