Nightblade Passive Hemorrhage

DT-ARR

Why does this passive only increase weapon critical and not spell critical?

JinMori

Some time ago someone made a post about how class buffs should be handled, and i agree.

It would be way cooler. Although i don;t exactly remember the name.

This one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6804341#Comment_6804341

OG_Kaveman

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

MashmalloMan

JinMori wrote: »

Some time ago someone made a post about how class buffs should be handled, and i agree.

It would be way cooler. Although i don;t exactly remember the name.

This one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6804341#Comment_6804341

Hey yeah, I was just about to copy/paste my comment from that.

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

True, but it's a dated and it's a poorly implemented system, newer players have a point to question it. We're just so use to it by now, that we think it makes sense, but imo, it could be improved. I'll just copy/paste the main part of my original comment on the subject below. This is just an idea for how they could improve the base classes currently. Necro has Major Vulnerability and Warden has Minor Toughness, both of which work well for any build, stam/magicka, etc.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Sorc: Spell/Weapon Crit Chance

• Only class with 2 skills that are directly influenced by having higher crit chance, Crit Surge and Power Surge. Imo the interaction between these skills and the minor buff is more thematically important than Templar/Warden's 10% crit damage passive that has no real specific synergy with their kits.

NB: Spell/Weapon Crit Damage

• Only class with higher base crit chance, serves them well to have higher crit dmg to pair with it. They can also guarantee crits via cloak so crit damage trumps crit chance in terms of the classes design.

Templar: Sustain related, maybe -5% health/stamina/magicka cost or +10% stam/hp/mag regen.

• This is the harder choice.. I originally thought Crit Healing would fit them thematically, but it's not very strong for a trial group which is half the reason for these class specifc minor buffs, to promote the idea of making diverse groups and securing spots for different classes. Sustain however is unanimously beneficial, whether your a tank, healer or dd, that sustain can be turned into dps by allowing you to avoid regular sustain investments for damage investments instead. It largely depends on the meta at hand, a sustain passive in an easy to sustain meta would kinda of hurt their unique buff, this is the same argument that I've made in the past about High Elf VS Breton. A lot of people at the time complained that Breton would 100% be BiS but it mostly depends on if their sustain is even needed in the first place. A breton will never be able to get that extra Spell Damage, but a High Elf can invest more into sustain if needed...
• Maybe ULT gen could be cool instead.

DK: Weapon/Spell Damage.

• DK's still seem like the class most thematically attached to brute force and standing their own ground. Raw damage highlights that.

Celestro

MashmalloMan wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Some time ago someone made a post about how class buffs should be handled, and i agree.

It would be way cooler. Although i don;t exactly remember the name.

This one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6804341#Comment_6804341

Hey yeah, I was just about to copy/paste my comment from that.

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

True, but it's a dated and it's a poorly implemented system, newer players have a point to question it. We're just so use to it by now, that we think it makes sense, but imo, it could be improved. I'll just copy/paste the main part of my original comment on the subject below. This is just an idea for how they could improve the base classes currently. Necro has Major Vulnerability and Warden has Minor Toughness, both of which work well for any build, stam/magicka, etc.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Sorc: Spell/Weapon Crit Chance

• Only class with 2 skills that are directly influenced by having higher crit chance, Crit Surge and Power Surge. Imo the interaction between these skills and the minor buff is more thematically important than Templar/Warden's 10% crit damage passive that has no real specific synergy with their kits.

NB: Spell/Weapon Crit Damage

• Only class with higher base crit chance, serves them well to have higher crit dmg to pair with it. They can also guarantee crits via cloak so crit damage trumps crit chance in terms of the classes design.

Templar: Sustain related, maybe -5% health/stamina/magicka cost or +10% stam/hp/mag regen.

• This is the harder choice.. I originally thought Crit Healing would fit them thematically, but it's not very strong for a trial group which is half the reason for these class specifc minor buffs, to promote the idea of making diverse groups and securing spots for different classes. Sustain however is unanimously beneficial, whether your a tank, healer or dd, that sustain can be turned into dps by allowing you to avoid regular sustain investments for damage investments instead. It largely depends on the meta at hand, a sustain passive in an easy to sustain meta would kinda of hurt their unique buff, this is the same argument that I've made in the past about High Elf VS Breton. A lot of people at the time complained that Breton would 100% be BiS but it mostly depends on if their sustain is even needed in the first place. A breton will never be able to get that extra Spell Damage, but a High Elf can invest more into sustain if needed...
• Maybe ULT gen could be cool instead.

DK: Weapon/Spell Damage.

• DK's still seem like the class most thematically attached to brute force and standing their own ground. Raw damage highlights that.

I absolutely love this idea for broadening those passives up some. As for Templar, what about additional max Magicka and Stamina? I can't come up with a real "justification" similar to the others off the top of my head presently, but seemed almost par for the course given Warden's Minor Toughness targeting Health.

JinMori

I was thinking this honestly.

Nb, crit damage
Sorc, crit chance
Templar resource cost
Dk Spell and WD
Warden, flat regen value, because % does no work well for regen since people have different values, so a flat value like 300 regen should be good.
Necro, ulti gen.

Max resources could be for the next class.

Also, each type of damage should get their own engulfing like ability.

So templar should get magic
Necro disease.
Nb phis
Dk fire and poison
Sorc lightning
Warden frost

DT-ARR

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

JinMori

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

It's not good, could definitely be improved.

tsaescishoeshiner

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

Magicka Nightblade also gets an 8% Max Magicka boost just for slotting a Siphoning skill. No reason to have every passive buff every build IMO

DT-ARR

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

Magicka Nightblade also gets an 8% Max Magicka boost just for slotting a Siphoning skill. No reason to have every passive buff every build IMO

Are you saying that changing this passive to include spell crit is going to make mag NB’s overpowered bc they also have an 8% max magicka passive...?

OG_Kaveman

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

Well technically, that passive also gives 10% crit damage to magic users as well, so it helps both.

tsaescishoeshiner

DT-ARR wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

Magicka Nightblade also gets an 8% Max Magicka boost just for slotting a Siphoning skill. No reason to have every passive buff every build IMO

Are you saying that changing this passive to include spell crit is going to make mag NB’s overpowered bc they also have an 8% max magicka passive...?

Oh, no, just that the 8% Max Mag doesn't improv Stam DPS, so some other passive doesn't have to buff Mag. Stamina and Magicka builds have different bonuses from other sources (weapons, armor, and more) and different playstyles, so I think it's fine if they have class passives that benefit only one or the other to make them more different from one another.

erio

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

that was funny lol, no one brings nb to groups

kaithuzar

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

Magicka Nightblade also gets an 8% Max Magicka boost just for slotting a Siphoning skill. No reason to have every passive buff every build IMO

Are you saying that changing this passive to include spell crit is going to make mag NB’s overpowered bc they also have an 8% max magicka passive...?

Oh, no, just that the 8% Max Mag doesn't improv Stam DPS, so some other passive doesn't have to buff Mag. Stamina and Magicka builds have different bonuses from other sources (weapons, armor, and more) and different playstyles, so I think it's fine if they have class passives that benefit only one or the other to make them more different from one another.

It could read as 8% percent max magic or stam, which ever resource is higher.
OR
4% max magic and max stamina.

Tommy_The_Gun

erio wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

that was funny lol, no one brings nb to groups

Yep. I was confused when I have read it. NB has little to no group utility, when compared to other classes. Almost no one wants them in group PvP and most end - game PvE or scoreboard runs. And that could be ok-ish if the class was great at solo play, but it is not the case anymore. It is decent at best for solo, and also content - dependent.

Stx

kaithuzar wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Thanks for responses all. I was thinking of it more selfishly as a casual / solo player who mains a magicka nb. Annoying that the highest level passive in the skill line just benefits stam players.

But i guess bc of group play this is okay...

Magicka Nightblade also gets an 8% Max Magicka boost just for slotting a Siphoning skill. No reason to have every passive buff every build IMO

Are you saying that changing this passive to include spell crit is going to make mag NB’s overpowered bc they also have an 8% max magicka passive...?

Oh, no, just that the 8% Max Mag doesn't improv Stam DPS, so some other passive doesn't have to buff Mag. Stamina and Magicka builds have different bonuses from other sources (weapons, armor, and more) and different playstyles, so I think it's fine if they have class passives that benefit only one or the other to make them more different from one another.

It could read as 8% percent max magic or stam, which ever resource is higher.
OR
4% max magic and max stamina.

Not EVERY passive needs to benefit every build. It's okay for classes to have benefits for specific roles or builds. That's part of the fun of building a character. Homogenize everything and the game becomes bland.

OG_Kaveman

erio wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

that was funny lol, no one brings nb to groups

funny, i have brought my magnb to plenty of groups and done just fine.

tsaescishoeshiner

Hemorrhage also gives you +10% Critical Damage, which Magicka builds greatly benefit from. That's the solo player buff. The Minor Savagery is just there if you ever want to buff a group.

Also, in ESO, the higher tier passives aren't necessarily the best ones. Grim Focus is the high-level Nightblade reward IMO. Super strong. Siphoning Strikes and Dark Shade are also powerful high tier skills that you get rewarded with. And all 3 skills happen to benefit Mag and Stam both.

Danksta

erio wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Because every class needs a reason to be in a group. Minor savagery is the reason to bring a NB. If you want minor prophecy, team up with a sorc.

that was funny lol, no one brings nb to groups

Well they bring them as healers now, not dps.

DT-ARR

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

DocFrost72

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

Start slotting the burst heal in our kit, thank me later.

DT-ARR

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

Start slotting the burst heal in our kit, thank me later.

What burst heal is this? Assassins Will after 5 LA's at close range...? Reapers Mark after killing the target...? Both of which are self heals...

Or was that sarcasm.

Deathlord92

Magblade in general needs buffs

kringled_1

DT-ARR wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

Start slotting the burst heal in our kit, thank me later.

What burst heal is this? Assassins Will after 5 LA's at close range...? Reapers Mark after killing the target...? Both of which are self heals...

Or was that sarcasm.

Healthy Offering is what I suspect he's thinking of.

Danksta

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

End game groups don't need two dedicated healers. Last few patches had healers running MK/zens that typically didn't run a burst heal other than combat prayer.

exeeter702

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

This is getting exhausting man... NBs are not by design exclusively an assassin class. IF one wanted to fufill the rogue / assassin / gank archetype in this mmo, NB was the only choice but that was not their only design philosophy model. It never has been, it is merely one aspect of the class. Nightblades have just as much been ranged life draining hot based casters, since day one of this game. Funnel health and refreshing path have historically been support based healer tools. And for as long as TG/DB release, they have had a very powerful selfless heal to support group members/ally players. There has never been nor is there now anything ironic about a magblade healing, full stop.

It's especially trying, when this type of inexperienced comment comes along by someone who does not even realize NBs have literally the strongest burst heal in the game in terms of function and throughput.

exeeter702

Danksta wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

End game groups don't need two dedicated healers. Last few patches had healers running MK/zens that typically didn't run a burst heal other than combat prayer.

For what it's worth, NB healers still slot it for minor mending uptime and its interaction with the siphoning passives (in case they are using a spammable other than strife) for the ult gen.

DT-ARR

exeeter702 wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

This is getting exhausting man... NBs are not by design exclusively an assassin class. IF one wanted to fufill the rogue / assassin / gank archetype in this mmo, NB was the only choice but that was not their only design philosophy model. It never has been, it is merely one aspect of the class. Nightblades have just as much been ranged life draining hot based casters, since day one of this game. Funnel health and refreshing path have historically been support based healer tools. And for as long as TG/DB release, they have had a very powerful selfless heal to support group members/ally players. There has never been nor is there now anything ironic about a magblade healing, full stop.

It's especially trying, when this type of inexperienced comment comes along by someone who does not even realize NBs have literally the strongest burst heal in the game in terms of function and throughput.

Especially trying? You're on a video game forum. How trying can it be. Its not my fault the class is literally advertised as being the assassin model in the game. Go read a class description off virtually every website on nightblades. almost universally they are described as the stealth assassin class. They have a skill line called assassination. Are there varying playstyles? Absolutely - its elderscrolls.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

DocFrost72

kringled_1 wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

Start slotting the burst heal in our kit, thank me later.

What burst heal is this? Assassins Will after 5 LA's at close range...? Reapers Mark after killing the target...? Both of which are self heals...

Or was that sarcasm.

Healthy Offering is what I suspect he's thinking of.

Ding!

Great on sustain. If you want more healing power you can take the minor mending morph, or if you're trying to fire off multiple quickly go the route of cost reduction.

My nightblade healer uses this skill, it's fantastic in pve and pvp.

exeeter702

DT-ARR wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

Ironic that the ‘assassin’ / supposed high burst dps class is currently best suited as a healer...and as the only class without a burst heal we are ill suited for even that much.

This is getting exhausting man... NBs are not by design exclusively an assassin class. IF one wanted to fufill the rogue / assassin / gank archetype in this mmo, NB was the only choice but that was not their only design philosophy model. It never has been, it is merely one aspect of the class. Nightblades have just as much been ranged life draining hot based casters, since day one of this game. Funnel health and refreshing path have historically been support based healer tools. And for as long as TG/DB release, they have had a very powerful selfless heal to support group members/ally players. There has never been nor is there now anything ironic about a magblade healing, full stop.

It's especially trying, when this type of inexperienced comment comes along by someone who does not even realize NBs have literally the strongest burst heal in the game in terms of function and throughput.

Especially trying? You're on a video game forum. How trying can it be. Its not my fault the class is literally advertised as being the assassin model in the game. Go read a class description off virtually every website on nightblades. almost universally they are described as the stealth assassin class. They have a skill line called assassination. Are there varying playstyles? Absolutely - its elderscrolls.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Sorcerers have a skill line called dedric summoning, yet you see petless sorcs all over the place. The official class descriptions are admittedly not well thought out and generally at odds with the how the game is designed. There is nothing ironic about a nightblade healing, and healing well, there never has been. There are numerous aspects to every class in terms of play archetypes. Do not conflate the NBs capability of fulfilling the burst damage stealth / gank focused rogue archetype in eso with NBs being exclusively an assasination class.

What is trying and exhausting is seeing for years, people post misinformation that shapes the mindset and expectations of new players coming here and reading and having to deal with in game assumptions of what should be. Many people have been seeing this and dealing with it for 6 years.