Performance improvement update?

Shardaxx

Does anyone know when the next performance improvement update is planned? I'm not really playing at the moment because the performance in cyrodiil is so bad, but I know ZOS had a roadmap of planned updates, but I can't find it. Does anyone have a link or know when the next one is? (I realise the past improvement patches didn't really do very much, but I live in hope!)

Thanks!

Sephyr

Here's the most recent news article. They've made the 'decision' to shift away from the road map for some of the more present issues. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681

Shardaxx

Thanks. So no more updates, at least not monthly. So its anyone's guess when any improvements will be then. hmmmmm!

Alomar

Even the planned "Road Map" ones didn't work so I wouldn't be expecting much to get better. If you're interested in re-skinned cash shop items though this game is right up your alley!

gatekeeper13

If you are waiting for improvements in Cyro, then you are waiting for nothing. It will never be fixed.

Lysette

the worst is though, that even in normal zones the performance is getting worse and worse, because ZOS isn't going to adapt server capacity to the newly flooded in crowds - this is so unprofessional, I really can't understand what ZOS is thinking.

Elsonso

Shardaxx wrote: »

Thanks. So no more updates, at least not monthly. So its anyone's guess when any improvements will be then. hmmmmm!

No. What was obvious to me was that a number of people do not relate to plans at the detail they provided. They were too low level, and too detailed, so any misperception about what they were doing, or what impact it would have, would be met with general criticism, even if ZOS met the goal that they were trying for. When you add to that slips in schedules, it basically turned into something that a lot of people could not really use, and even if it did, it often did not fix what they wanted fixed.

TineaCruris

Lysette wrote: »

the worst is though, that even in normal zones the performance is getting worse and worse, because ZOS isn't going to adapt server capacity to the newly flooded in crowds - this is so unprofessional, I really can't understand what ZOS is thinking.

Profits above all else is what they are thinking. Their bottom line is still golden for them if they don't invest in the hardware to support their software. For now, people are still spending money, so this is the model that works for ZOS.

TineaCruris

Elsonso wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Thanks. So no more updates, at least not monthly. So its anyone's guess when any improvements will be then. hmmmmm!

No. What was obvious to me was that a number of people do not relate to plans at the detail they provided. They were too low level, and too detailed, so any misperception about what they were doing, or what impact it would have, would be met with general criticism, even if ZOS met the goal that they were trying for. When you add to that slips in schedules, it basically turned into something that a lot of people could not really use, and even if it did, it often did not fix what they wanted fixed.

ZOS has now told us that they will no longer be updating us with their plans for performance updates. The one and only reason that makes any sense is that they have done the math, and decided investing in the hardware to support their software simply doesn't work out for their economic goals from this game. So, any performance update plans are a waste, the hardware will never support their software adequately to get decent performance going forward without the needed physical upgrades and capacity increases.

EVERYTHING that has happened in the last couple years in terms of radically reducing communication, massive degradation in game performance in all areas of the game, and frankly, the way people are so oppressed in what they can discuss on this forum really can lead people to only one reasonable conclusion. ...and it's not one that puts the parent company in a good light at all.

Elsonso

TineaCruris wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

the worst is though, that even in normal zones the performance is getting worse and worse, because ZOS isn't going to adapt server capacity to the newly flooded in crowds - this is so unprofessional, I really can't understand what ZOS is thinking.

Profits above all else is what they are thinking. Their bottom line is still golden for them if they don't invest in the hardware to support their software. For now, people are still spending money, so this is the model that works for ZOS.

Well, yes, they are thinking about profits. Sitting out here, where none of these decisions are ours, it is easy to say "add more hardware", but it isn't exactly as easy as saying it.

I doubt that ZOS owns any of the hardware that ESO runs on. It is likely leased equipment, and they have maintenance and other lease terms written into it. So, getting more hardware could be as simple as updating the lease. Maybe. Maybe they have short term hardware increases built into the lease agreement. Who knows? These lease agreements can be anything they can negotiate. Leasing hardware can be a complication.

Next, how much hardware do they need? ESO runs on HP Blades (last we knew) and so it could be as simple as ordering up some more blade servers, but it could also mean that new blade enclosures are needed. Based on what demand they are told to provide for, someone decides all that.

How long do they need this hardware? Is ESO in a player bubble, or is this demand expected to be longer term? If it is short term, someone has to decide whether they can ride it out. Also, it might be that the hardware arrives after the bubble is gone. Hardware can arrive quickly, or it can take time, depending on a number of things that we don't know. The person who decides how much demand to provide for needs to take that into account so that they don't order too much, or too little, hardware.

All this has to be balanced against the budget. Yes. Profits.

Last, is additional hardware going to be the answer? ESO is well past the "just throw hardware at it" stage of fixing problems. We know this from what they have said. Cyrodiil, for example, has apparently been at this point since launch, so it seems that throwing hardware at Cyrodiil is not an option. That may extend to other parts of the server, like the database system. If the bottleneck is software, not hardware, adding all the hardware in the world won't fix it.

Lysette

TineaCruris wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

the worst is though, that even in normal zones the performance is getting worse and worse, because ZOS isn't going to adapt server capacity to the newly flooded in crowds - this is so unprofessional, I really can't understand what ZOS is thinking.

Profits above all else is what they are thinking. Their bottom line is still golden for them if they don't invest in the hardware to support their software. For now, people are still spending money, so this is the model that works for ZOS.

who knows, their software is as well not up to the task really - slow databases -slow zoning in - unstable connection with ridiculous reasons for why the connection failed (like cannot connect to game server when I'm already on it) - slow log out, what is causing the "account already logged in"error, when you try to reconnect - stuff I don't experience with other games even their servers are as well on the other side oft the globe - ZOS's hard/software is just mediocre and so is the game by this.

Lysette

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

the worst is though, that even in normal zones the performance is getting worse and worse, because ZOS isn't going to adapt server capacity to the newly flooded in crowds - this is so unprofessional, I really can't understand what ZOS is thinking.

Profits above all else is what they are thinking. Their bottom line is still golden for them if they don't invest in the hardware to support their software. For now, people are still spending money, so this is the model that works for ZOS.

Well, yes, they are thinking about profits. Sitting out here, where none of these decisions are ours, it is easy to say "add more hardware", but it isn't exactly as easy as saying it.

I doubt that ZOS owns any of the hardware that ESO runs on. It is likely leased equipment, and they have maintenance and other lease terms written into it. So, getting more hardware could be as simple as updating the lease. Maybe. Maybe they have short term hardware increases built into the lease agreement. Who knows? These lease agreements can be anything they can negotiate. Leasing hardware can be a complication.

Next, how much hardware do they need? ESO runs on HP Blades (last we knew) and so it could be as simple as ordering up some more blade servers, but it could also mean that new blade enclosures are needed. Based on what demand they are told to provide for, someone decides all that.

How long do they need this hardware? Is ESO in a player bubble, or is this demand expected to be longer term? If it is short term, someone has to decide whether they can ride it out. Also, it might be that the hardware arrives after the bubble is gone. Hardware can arrive quickly, or it can take time, depending on a number of things that we don't know. The person who decides how much demand to provide for needs to take that into account so that they don't order too much, or too little, hardware.

All this has to be balanced against the budget. Yes. Profits.

Last, is additional hardware going to be the answer? ESO is well past the "just throw hardware at it" stage of fixing problems. We know this from what they have said. Cyrodiil, for example, has apparently been at this point since launch, so it seems that throwing hardware at Cyrodiil is not an option. That may extend to other parts of the server, like the database system. If the bottleneck is software, not hardware, adding all the hardware in the world won't fix it.

This came to my mind as well, that eventually it is the software which isn't up to the task. Cyrodiil will never improve to the point where it would perform well, that is pretty obvious - but if performance gets as well worse and worse in the normal zone areas, this is really making the cash cow angry and a silly move by ZOS.

TineaCruris

Elsonso wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

the worst is though, that even in normal zones the performance is getting worse and worse, because ZOS isn't going to adapt server capacity to the newly flooded in crowds - this is so unprofessional, I really can't understand what ZOS is thinking.

Profits above all else is what they are thinking. Their bottom line is still golden for them if they don't invest in the hardware to support their software. For now, people are still spending money, so this is the model that works for ZOS.

Well, yes, they are thinking about profits. Sitting out here, where none of these decisions are ours, it is easy to say "add more hardware", but it isn't exactly as easy as saying it.

I doubt that ZOS owns any of the hardware that ESO runs on. It is likely leased equipment, and they have maintenance and other lease terms written into it. So, getting more hardware could be as simple as updating the lease. Maybe. Maybe they have short term hardware increases built into the lease agreement. Who knows? These lease agreements can be anything they can negotiate. Leasing hardware can be a complication.

Next, how much hardware do they need? ESO runs on HP Blades (last we knew) and so it could be as simple as ordering up some more blade servers, but it could also mean that new blade enclosures are needed. Based on what demand they are told to provide for, someone decides all that.

How long do they need this hardware? Is ESO in a player bubble, or is this demand expected to be longer term? If it is short term, someone has to decide whether they can ride it out. Also, it might be that the hardware arrives after the bubble is gone. Hardware can arrive quickly, or it can take time, depending on a number of things that we don't know. The person who decides how much demand to provide for needs to take that into account so that they don't order too much, or too little, hardware.

All this has to be balanced against the budget. Yes. Profits.

Last, is additional hardware going to be the answer? ESO is well past the "just throw hardware at it" stage of fixing problems. We know this from what they have said. Cyrodiil, for example, has apparently been at this point since launch, so it seems that throwing hardware at Cyrodiil is not an option. That may extend to other parts of the server, like the database system. If the bottleneck is software, not hardware, adding all the hardware in the world won't fix it.

Exactly. Leasing enough hardware of high enough quality to run their software is what ZOS is, apparently, not doing. Instead, they are making excuses and throwing as many misdirections our way as they can possibly think of. At least, this is what the evidence we have to work with points to. The reason they are not updating us on their performance plan is because the accounting department has made the decision that the expense for server leases will not be made, thus, no reason to put any time or effort into fixing any bugs or performance issues either. It very much seems as though this is where ESO is at today in it's life cycle. It's really too bad too, because with a little effort and investment, ESO could continue to be the greatest game ever created.

the reason Cyrodiil will not get more server capacity is because PvP players have spent about as much money on the game as they needed to to get to end level PvP. (which is a pretty fair amount of money, $500-$1000 US on the low end) PvP'rs typically don't buy eso plus or crown crates, so cyrodiil doesn't get more server capacity due to not generating revenue.

The PvE content that is generating revenue IS getting the hardware it needs to support that portion of the game....until recently.

Shardaxx

Lysette wrote: »

who knows, their software is as well not up to the task really - slow databases -slow zoning in - unstable connection with ridiculous reasons for why the connection failed (like cannot connect to game server when I'm already on it) - slow log out, what is causing the "account already logged in"error, when you try to reconnect - stuff I don't experience with other games even their servers are as well on the other side oft the globe - ZOS's hard/software is just mediocre and so is the game by this.

My fave is when eso tells me I have no internet connection, which is magically back again when I kill it and land back on my home screen.

Lysette

Shardaxx wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

who knows, their software is as well not up to the task really - slow databases -slow zoning in - unstable connection with ridiculous reasons for why the connection failed (like cannot connect to game server when I'm already on it) - slow log out, what is causing the "account already logged in"error, when you try to reconnect - stuff I don't experience with other games even their servers are as well on the other side oft the globe - ZOS's hard/software is just mediocre and so is the game by this.

My fave is when eso tells me I have no internet connection, which is magically back again when I kill it and land back on my home screen.

a VALID internet connection - guess your's isn't valid then - lol - yes I get that too among the generic "an error has occurred" - while just standing in my house or dealing with my banker - ridiculous.

Elsonso

Lysette wrote: »

This came to my mind as well, that eventually it is the software which isn't up to the task. Cyrodiil will never improve to the point where it would perform well, that is pretty obvious - but if performance gets as well worse and worse in the normal zone areas, this is really making the cash cow angry and a silly move by ZOS.

That is actually where the whole multi-year performance plan is coming into play. It is that stuff that addresses the core problems, and no one thing they do is going to suddenly make Cyrodiil work better.

TineaCruris wrote: »

the reason Cyrodiil will not get more server capacity is because PvP players have spent about as much money on the game as they needed to to get to end level PvP. (which is a pretty fair amount of money, $500-$1000 US on the low end) PvP'rs typically don't buy eso plus or crown crates, so cyrodiil doesn't get more server capacity due to not generating revenue.

I am remembering you now. My apologies, I do not always pay close attention to who says what.

ZOS is never going to come out and confirm it, but all the information that I have seen in interviews, articles, and streams suggests that each Cyrodiil Campaign is on a dedicated bit of hardware that is not shared with anything else.

Adding hardware to the megaserver has been described as a way to allow more players into the game. Cyrodiil Campaigns, which have a population cap, do not benefit from this.

It looks like the only hardware thing that can make Cyrodiil run faster is a faster computer, and no one has been asking that question of them. If they are still using HP blade servers, then we know what hardware is available to them, and can say whether they are running the fastest hardware they have available to them. For that reason, they will never tell us what they are running.

It looks like the performance limitations are software, not hardware, and are not specific to just Cyrodiil. This means that the performance plan that has been in play for the last year, or longer, is the work that will make Cyrodiil performance improve. When that work is complete.

AMeanOne

The idea that pvpers don't spend money is a misconception. I see tons of radiant apex mounts running around cyro, with their riders sporting all the new crown crate cosmetics every cycle. Pvpers need eso+ to get whatever new gear comes out, and they have to buy chapters like everyone else.

Shardaxx

Lysette wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

who knows, their software is as well not up to the task really - slow databases -slow zoning in - unstable connection with ridiculous reasons for why the connection failed (like cannot connect to game server when I'm already on it) - slow log out, what is causing the "account already logged in"error, when you try to reconnect - stuff I don't experience with other games even their servers are as well on the other side oft the globe - ZOS's hard/software is just mediocre and so is the game by this.

My fave is when eso tells me I have no internet connection, which is magically back again when I kill it and land back on my home screen.

a VALID internet connection - guess your's isn't valid then - lol - yes I get that too among the generic "an error has occurred" - while just standing in my house or dealing with my banker - ridiculous.

I stand corrected lol

shaielzafine

The road map for performance improvements for last year is like over now. I came back after the "performance patch" with the redownload and then kept waiting until after Greymoor launched. It's just all a feature at this point since it doesn't look like they can actually fix it. They haven't responded to any of the multiple threads about it and the threads just get closed. I've even seen them banning people on Twitch livestreams for asking about performance, servers and pvp, so looks like this is it. Best they can do. If they want to ban paying ESO+ subscribers for asking questions then that reinforces how much they value us.

DUTCH_REAPER

You know the argument "PVP players are not ZOS concern because they don't make money off them" doesn't really hold water. I know plenty of people who pvp only and spend loads of cash on crates and getting dlc content to be "up to date" on items. Shame the servers don't get whats needed. One dude i know spent 400 bucks to get that radiant apex mount lol. So they are def making money off pvpers