Staminas should get a Thrassian Strangler alternative

TheDarkRuler

With the release of Thrassian Stranglers my raid group took a hit to the worse from my point of view. We only had some "alibi" stamina players for running (e.g. MoL, ...) and stuff that actively requires alot of stamina but right now the gloves are boosting all magicka dd damage values so much most groups are compromised entirely of magic classes.

There are some mythic relics for stamina but they are mostly for PVP or tank, i cannot find a good DD alternative.

My suggestion:
1.) Make the gloves add Weapon Damage too in addition to Spell Damage so stamplayers can use it too!
2.) Make a new item for scrying made for Stamina players, e.g. like something below.

Belt of the Cunning Duelist, medium
(1) Killing an enemy with a weapon or stamina-based ability adds a stack of Duelist's Virtue increasing your weapon damage by X while also reducing the effectiveness of Healing received, Damage shields and reducing movement speed. Crouching or unequipping will dispel the bonus.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

You can run it with Pelinals and go spell damage on your glyphs. You can hit some pretty crazy stats. I was doing VMA with thrassian, pelinals, and warband. You sit around 6500 weapon damage 70% crit and 3200 stam. Squishy but it’s fun.

idk

If Zos considers the idea it will likely take some time before Zos actually acts on it. The better time for this feedback was during the PTS cycle vs after the ship sails. I am not suggesting OP did not provide similar feedback then as I expect they did.

LeHarrt91

Also can you imagine this set paired with the medium armor % passive and sets like Fury, NMA, Clever Alch etc.

fred4

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Also can you imagine this set paired with the medium armor % passive and sets like Fury, NMA, Clever Alch etc.

This is what I would be worried about. Spell damage is harder to stack, so I probably don't see the stamina variant as needing to be quite as powerful for the same effect. At least, since this is a math question, ZOS seem to be quite conscientious with those.

Jacozilla

Give mag a relequen like set that boosts dps by same margin as it does on stam, and sure - I'll happily endorse stam getting an identical thrassian version or just make thrassian boost both spell/wep dmg.

Which would also mean btw, to be consistent with your request, all other mythical items that are geared for stam or come only in heavy weight, should also come in light/med weights as well.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

please stamina if they do it right can stack lots of major and minor buffs with out the aid of a group, magic only can do 1 with out posions

colossalvoids

It's just a matter of time for stam to get some new toy, just hope for actually interesting implementation and not a copycat here.

Septimus_Magna

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can run it with Pelinals and go spell damage on your glyphs. You can hit some pretty crazy stats. I was doing VMA with thrassian, pelinals, and warband. You sit around 6500 weapon damage 70% crit and 3200 stam. Squishy but it’s fun.

One of the main benefits of medium armor is the 12% weapon dmg bonus, if you run Pelinals and Thrassian that effect is negated so it seems like a bit of a waste. The racial weapon dmg bonus is also wasted if you're an Orc for example. I dont have the exact numbers but I think my Orc stamplar has more than 7k weapon dmg self-buffed with Deadly, Relequen and Selene.

Elwendryll

Using stranglers with pelinal is a waste, as it was mentioned, it's far from optimal. I agree stam DDs don't have a single interesting mythic item right now.

It's already complicated to be a stamina DD in a raid nowadays. It makes the competition even harder. And it's disappointing that we don't really have anything fun to play with. The Malacath band of brutality has a rather weak buff for an insanely big drawback. It's absolutely not worth the trade.

I don't want an equivalent of stranglers. But I'd like a kiss curse option on stam that's not stupidly bad. Preventing stam classes from critting? I'm playing a Khajiit Stamsorc, it's just not even something I would consider.

Keledus

watch this thread turn into a magicka vs stamina world war 3000.

deLioncourt

Jacozilla wrote: »

Give mag a relequen like set that boosts dps by same margin as it does on stam, and sure - I'll happily endorse stam getting an identical thrassian version or just make thrassian boost both spell/wep dmg.

Which would also mean btw, to be consistent with your request, all other mythical items that are geared for stam or come only in heavy weight, should also come in light/med weights as well.

The difference between Relequen and Stranglers is that Stranglers only requires one slot. Relequen requires 5 slots.

My magblade vamp uses blood for blood as a spammable. I wear 5 pc perfected false gods, 4 pc mothers sorrow, 2 pc zaans, and stranglers.

I parse with full stacks by killing the robot dummy you get from Clockwork. That thing only has like 200k hp. Takes 3 seconds to kill it. Do it 20 times, then parse on the Iron Atro. My vamp magblade can hit 125k under these conditions. I know it's different when you're in combat and stuff is trying to kill you and you're basically 40% weaker to everything form of damage and healing..but 125k? And it was my first parse ever.

I lose the 5pc from Mothers Sorrow, just about 2k spell crit..but to trade it for 3k weapon dmg? LOL

Danksta

Mag DPS has been dominating PvE for a while now, that's not new to this patch. Even more so on console but still the case on PC as far as I've seen.

iCaliban

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

furiouslog

deLioncourt wrote: »

The difference between Relequen and Stranglers is that Stranglers only requires one slot. Relequen requires 5 slots.

Stranglers takes away the proc bonus from a 5 piece set or a monster set, so that is not really a fair comparison. It basically replaces the 5 piece bonus from another set. So the difference you imply is not that much of a difference.

Alidel

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

It's pretty useless for pve tho.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can run it with Pelinals and go spell damage on your glyphs. You can hit some pretty crazy stats. I was doing VMA with thrassian, pelinals, and warband. You sit around 6500 weapon damage 70% crit and 3200 stam. Squishy but it’s fun.

One of the main benefits of medium armor is the 12% weapon dmg bonus, if you run Pelinals and Thrassian that effect is negated so it seems like a bit of a waste. The racial weapon dmg bonus is also wasted if you're an Orc for example. I dont have the exact numbers but I think my Orc stamplar has more than 7k weapon dmg self-buffed with Deadly, Relequen and Selene.

@Septimus_Magna @Elwendryll

Never said it was ideal, I really did it more just for kicks. I could be wrong, but 7k sounds very high with the setup you listed. I am looking at a Stamplar Raid dummy parse of mine (last patch), that was about 91k. This is with full raid buffs, my stats were 37221 stam, 6357 weapon damage, 61.9% weapon crit. Race is Orc, mundus is shadow. Also using parse food. Of courser in that setup, both of your 5 pieces bonuses really arent doing much for your stats. But considering that has a war horn going, the raw stats at max stacks are better with the pelinals setup.

I also attempted this build solely for the purposes of the arena, where something like Relequen is much less useful. My baseline generally is VO, Warband, Veli for stam in the arena. Going with thrassian, warband, 1 piece slimecraw, and pelinals, definitely was an improvement in my boss DPS and overall stats. You do lose minor slayer with this setup.

I would actually like someone that is way better at stam in the arena than I am to give this a go, you know, for science. I was fast but I was squishy. When at max stacks, your Posion Injections becomes a really good spammable.

You definitely need to play to the build. Ideal races are likely either Khajiit or Dunmer. Orc would be a poor choice for this setup, as your real goal is to stack spell damage. You also need spell damage glyphs and access to major sorcery. This makes something like Stam Sorc, DK or Warden a really good choice because you can get the buff from a class skill that you really dont sacrifice anything to slot (as you probably slot it anyway in the arena). The nice thing is you have some flexibility with potions, especially if you get major savagery from somewhere as well.

You do lose the weapon damage buff from medium armor as it basically becomes useless. The weapon crit is still useful. You could also theoretically do this in heavy armor. I messed with that a bit as well, but I am missing some warband pieces I would need for BIS build. I tried a heavy setup briefly with pelinals, thrassians, and VO, and the damage was definitely there.

iCaliban

Alidel wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

It's pretty useless for pve tho.

Is there a need to cheese pve more? DPS has been absurdly high for years

Oreyn_Bearclaw

iCaliban wrote: »

Alidel wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

It's pretty useless for pve tho.

Is there a need to cheese pve more? DPS has been absurdly high for years

Call it cheese if you want, but lets be honest. Most people want more damage in PVE. The primary gate behind score pushing is time, which comes down to DPS. As damage increases, it allows players to refine strats to go faster. Might not be appealing to everyone, but that is generally how it works at the top.

JinMori

I really like the set but i fear it will get nerfed, if they do decide to nerf it i hope that they will up the damage taken increase instead of reducing the spell damage.

It's a fun set to use to test just what kind of crazy dps you can get, but it's also really dangerous, 40 % is not really a joke, iv'e been dangerously close to one shots with really high resistances.

JinMori

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Alidel wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

It's pretty useless for pve tho.

Is there a need to cheese pve more? DPS has been absurdly high for years

Call it cheese if you want, but lets be honest. Most people want more damage in PVE. The primary gate behind score pushing is time, which comes down to DPS. As damage increases, it allows players to refine strats to go faster. Might not be appealing to everyone, but that is generally how it works at the top.

Exactly, if anything instead of holding back with these cool ideas, they should instead create new things to counterbalance the power progression, which is something i said so many times at this point.

But progression is important, and silly sets like thrassian are really fun. There are a lot of things they could do with tools they already have in game.

Chufu

I would indeed love to have Thrassian Strangler too for Stamina. At the moment I have again the problem, that in Dungeons & Arenas Thrassian is wayyy better on the Magicka characters and in raids... well everything that is not too hard can be done with Thrassian, but all hard raids Magicka is preferred anyway because of shielding.

With my Mag chars I enjoy the stranglers too, but Magicka is not really what I personally like to play.

Czekoludek

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

With the release of Thrassian Stranglers my raid group took a hit to the worse from my point of view. We only had some "alibi" stamina players for running (e.g. MoL, ...) and stuff that actively requires alot of stamina but right now the gloves are boosting all magicka dd damage values so much most groups are compromised entirely of magic classes.

There are some mythic relics for stamina but they are mostly for PVP or tank, i cannot find a good DD alternative.

My suggestion:
1.) Make the gloves add Weapon Damage too in addition to Spell Damage so stamplayers can use it too!
2.) Make a new item for scrying made for Stamina players, e.g. like something below.

Belt of the Cunning Duelist, medium
(1) Killing an enemy with a weapon or stamina-based ability adds a stack of Duelist's Virtue increasing your weapon damage by X while also reducing the effectiveness of Healing received, Damage shields and reducing movement speed. Crouching or unequipping will dispel the bonus.

Change reduced damage shields to increase cost of block and roll dodge as it is more popular defense for stamina then shields. Also, max stack for this Item and stranglers should be 10 as 20 is too much damage and a huge power boost to the best players while average players will not be using that

Alidel

iCaliban wrote: »

Alidel wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

It's pretty useless for pve tho.

Is there a need to cheese pve more? DPS has been absurdly high for years

Just saying that it's not comparable with strangler.

miawmiaw1337

stamina has been dominating pvp for years, so its okay if magicka dominates pve for a while now i think

JinMori

Jacozilla wrote: »

Give mag a relequen like set that boosts dps by same margin as it does on stam, and sure - I'll happily endorse stam getting an identical thrassian version or just make thrassian boost both spell/wep dmg.

Which would also mean btw, to be consistent with your request, all other mythical items that are geared for stam or come only in heavy weight, should also come in light/med weights as well.

This argument i dislike, it's basically since i don;t have this you can;t have that. *** this ***.

I want the game to be overall better, not to play this kind of bs.

Jacozilla

JinMori wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Give mag a relequen like set that boosts dps by same margin as it does on stam, and sure - I'll happily endorse stam getting an identical thrassian version or just make thrassian boost both spell/wep dmg.

Which would also mean btw, to be consistent with your request, all other mythical items that are geared for stam or come only in heavy weight, should also come in light/med weights as well.

This argument i dislike, it's basically since i don;t have this you can;t have that. *** this ***.

I want the game to be overall better, not to play this kind of bs.

So the BS you want is one where it is still BS but so long as it favors you is good BS vs really bad when it doesn’t.

Stam is already and has been for some time the highest dps - case in point orc stamcro - highest by good margin ever since necromancers came out w/ Elswyr, over a year ago (Jun 2019 to be exact).

So what you’re saying is you want these same dps dominating stamcros which have held the top dps spot for over a year, to also have the added same benefit of stam version of Thrassian. Ok got it, when you like the BS it is not hypocrisy.

Danksta

iCaliban wrote: »

Alidel wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam makes much better use of malacaths band. So you do have a powerful alternative

It's pretty useless for pve tho.

Is there a need to cheese pve more? DPS has been absurdly high for years

Would be nice to run stam dps in PvE without gimping yourself.

JinMori

Jacozilla wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Give mag a relequen like set that boosts dps by same margin as it does on stam, and sure - I'll happily endorse stam getting an identical thrassian version or just make thrassian boost both spell/wep dmg.

Which would also mean btw, to be consistent with your request, all other mythical items that are geared for stam or come only in heavy weight, should also come in light/med weights as well.

This argument i dislike, it's basically since i don;t have this you can;t have that. *** this ***.

I want the game to be overall better, not to play this kind of bs.

So the BS you want is one where it is still BS but so long as it favors you is good BS vs really bad when it doesn’t.

Stam is already and has been for some time the highest dps - case in point orc stamcro - highest by good margin ever since necromancers came out w/ Elswyr, over a year ago (Jun 2019 to be exact).

So what you’re saying is you want these same dps dominating stamcros which have held the top dps spot for over a year, to also have the added same benefit of stam version of Thrassian. Ok got it, when you like the BS it is not hypocrisy.

I play stam and magicka. I just think it's a bad argument, and you are just finding excuses for your point of view, that's about it.

I don't care about the "but they have this and we don't argument" i want cool things for both.

I tend to be very brash, but didn't actually mean offense. i just think this argument is bs.

Also, the only reason why stam had higher dps than mag was purely thanks to relequen, remove that set and magicka is immediately superior, and if mag had a relequen set, forget it.

Before the dot nerfs stam and mag were actually doing relatively the same damage with comparable sets, that is no longer the case.

I think it has mostly to do with maelstrom arena weapons, the dot nerfs, especially endless hail badly reflected on stam dps, but mag was unaffected, because light attack damage, but this is just a hunch, you cna try it yourself, use malestrom weapons, and comparable sets for mag and stam, mag will basically always be better.

yRaven

In that case i want a Relequen for my Magicka too, ty

Maybe some deadly strike also

JinMori

yRaven wrote: »

In that case i want a Relequen for my Magicka too, ty

Maybe some deadly strike also

I would love for master architect and war machine to be buffed.

Iv'e already made a suggestion tough