I`ve Had Enough

madman65

Tried Alcast build, Dottz build, variations of those builds, tried my own builds. Just not making the DPS that they are suppose to make and YES I can weave. From day one I`ve had trouble and now that I have 1GB internet and SSD for the game I should make more. Just not happening, So I give up.

LeHarrt91

Class and Gear? and goal DPS.

Narvuntien

Can I have your stuff?

Are you doing the rotations on the iron atronach?

Maybe you are missing something minor like minor force or you aren't using Spell/weapon power pots or food buff or aren't 810 cp yet.

HalvarIronfist

You've tried builds and you say you know how to weave, but you don't state a target, don't state any rotation, class, gear, ETC. What is the purpose of your post?

Are you asking how to improve, or are you just writing an I quit post? (Those get taken down by ZOS pretty quickly.)

idk

I do not know much about Dottz builds but I can say Alcast builds are good references but not a bible. Some of those builds Alcast may use in raids but I am pretty sure he does not use all of those builds regularly.

Further, personal technique plays a big role. Find someone in your guild that has a clue to look at your parses (if you are on PC and maybe even watch you parse on a dummy. little things like reliably getting LAs and uptime of buffs and DoTs add up.

madman65

I would love to post images of my Combat Metrics results but I have a difficult time getting them on here. It`s a Warden build just like Alcast with the exact same passives, skills, potions, food and rotation. I`ve seen CP 300`s make more DPS than me and i`m cp1100 so that`s why I have made this post. 27K on a target skeleton, robust humanoid and yes I have made variations in the skills. The best food/drink for me is Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl and the potion used is Essence of Spell Power Critical/Damage/Magicka. I mean, i`ve been at this for over a year trying different sets and upgrading them to gold. Loosing interest in this game.

madman65

Race is Breton.

SidraWillowsky

madman65 wrote: »

I would love to post images of my Combat Metrics results but I have a difficult time getting them on here. It`s a Warden build just like Alcast with the exact same passives, skills, potions, food and rotation. I`ve seen CP 300`s make more DPS than me and i`m cp1100 so that`s why I have made this post. 27K on a target skeleton, robust humanoid and yes I have made variations in the skills. The best food/drink for me is Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl and the potion used is Essence of Spell Power Critical/Damage/Magicka. I mean, i`ve been at this for over a year trying different sets and upgrading them to gold. Loosing interest in this game.

Oh, MagWarden? I don't trust people who don't main the class with builds- I'd recommend looking at what Stileanima does instead; she's the magden goddess and loves and understands the class. I copy her blue CP only; she used to bash weave and I do not, so I kept my green points the same as the way I prefer.

Can you list exactly the gear you use and your rotation?

madman65

Zaan head and shoulder, False gods shoes, belt, gloves and staves, Mothers sorrow chest, breeches, necklace and rings. Rotation: Channeled Acceleration and Blue Betty to start, Winter’s Revenge > LA > Unstable Wall of Elements > Weapon Swap
Deep Fissure > LA > Fetchers Infection > LA > Blood for Blood > LA > Deep Fissure > LA > Mystic Orb > LA > Blood for Blood > LA > Deep Fissure > Blood for Blood > Weapon Swap. Like I said, just like Alcast.

Taleof2Cities

I don't think getting that CMX screenshot posted is too tall a task, @madman65. Are you using an outside image host such as Imgur?

After that, it's just linking your image like this using img and /img (click "Quote" on my post to get the full syntax).

Elsonso

madman65 wrote: »

Tried Alcast build, Dottz build, variations of those builds, tried my own builds. Just not making the DPS that they are suppose to make and YES I can weave. From day one I`ve had trouble and now that I have 1GB internet and SSD for the game I should make more. Just not happening, So I give up.

First... practice the rotation. That seems to be where most people, myself included, have stumbled. DPS with those builds are often dependent upon a specific ability cast at exactly the right time so that the drop in DPS is as small as possible.

Second... any deviation from the build, like rotation, gear, food, potions, etc, no matter how trivial, can change the DPS. You might make changes, and maybe those aren't going to give you the DPS boost you think they will.

Third... do you need the DPS or are you just trying to get what the build is rated at? Most content in the game does not require maximizing DPS. If you can survive the longer combat, you might be just fine where you are for what you want to do.

Fourth... your play style or capabilities (no disrespect intended) might not match those builds. You might actually be better off with a different build. This might also be a good time to set out and make your own build tailored to you and your needs.

madman65

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I don't think getting that CMX screenshot posted is too tall a task, @madman65. Are you using an outside image host such as Imgur?

After that, it's just linking your image like this using img and /img (click "Quote" on my post to get the full syntax).

https://imgur.com/gallery/vquqw6m

madman65

Elsonso wrote: »

madman65 wrote: »

Tried Alcast build, Dottz build, variations of those builds, tried my own builds. Just not making the DPS that they are suppose to make and YES I can weave. From day one I`ve had trouble and now that I have 1GB internet and SSD for the game I should make more. Just not happening, So I give up.

First... practice the rotation. That seems to be where most people, myself included, have stumbled. DPS with those builds are often dependent upon a specific ability cast at exactly the right time so that the drop in DPS is as small as possible.

Second... any deviation from the build, like rotation, gear, food, potions, etc, no matter how trivial, can change the DPS. You might make changes, and maybe those aren't going to give you the DPS boost you think they will.

Third... do you need the DPS or are you just trying to get what the build is rated at? Most content in the game does not require maximizing DPS. If you can survive the longer combat, you might be just fine where you are for what you want to do.

Fourth... your play style or capabilities (no disrespect intended) might not match those builds. You might actually be better off with a different build. This might also be a good time to set out and make your own build tailored to you and your needs.

I have 4 different builds and the Magden suits me the best. I like the Stamblade but ESO has nerfed it so much that I don`t even like to go into trials. My Necrohealer is very good but young(low CP`s) right now and I need the gold level stuff. MagDK just eats the magicka but thinking of putting the Torc of Tonal Constancy on it. There are times with the Magden that it reaches 40-50K in the trials but not on the target dummies.

madman65

Sry not low on cp`s, low on skill points.

SidraWillowsky

madman65 wrote: »

Zaan head and shoulder, False gods shoes, belt, gloves and staves, Mothers sorrow chest, breeches, necklace and rings. Rotation: Channeled Acceleration and Blue Betty to start, Winter’s Revenge > LA > Unstable Wall of Elements > Weapon Swap
Deep Fissure > LA > Fetchers Infection > LA > Blood for Blood > LA > Deep Fissure > LA > Mystic Orb > LA > Blood for Blood > LA > Deep Fissure > Blood for Blood > Weapon Swap. Like I said, just like Alcast.

I don't run a vampire so I don't know how the BfB spammable works. But here's what I run on my non-vamp build:

Body: False Gods or Siroria (ideally you'd want MS body/Siroria weaps + jewels, but I don't have those), weaps + jewels: Mother's Sorrow; Zaan helm (actually, I mostly use Skoria at this point), vMA staff back bar

Front bar: Fissure, Screaming Cliff Racer, Fetcher Infection, Degeneration, Bird of Prey, bear
Back bar: Unstable Wall, Winter's Revenge, Blue Betty, Barbed Trap (parsing) or Channeled Acceleration (all other times), Bird of Prey, Bear

Buff Betty + whatever you're using for minor force, then

Unstable Wall -> swap
LA -> Fissure -> LA -> Fetcher -> LA -> swap
LA -> Winter's Revenge -> swap
LA -> Fissure -> LA -> Degen -> LA -> SCR
LA -> Fissure -> LA -> SCR -> LA -> SCR

Then just keep fissure -> skill -> skill -> fissure; prioritizing your DoTs then using SCR when they're all running.

I've found that if my last skill before a bar swap is Fissure or Winter's Revenge, it's quicker to swap right after casting than it is to try to get a light attack in between the skill and bar swap.

Based on your CMX, it looks like you're not casting Fissure as often as you should- as I'm sure you're well-aware, it's a huge source of damage. Lastly, you're using a build optimized for trials/the trial dummy, not a self-buffed parse. You're losing minor berserk on the back bar when you run this, which will decrease your DPS. False Gods will also not parse as high as Siroria, and the crazy high parses that you see people post are almost always using Siroria.

I'f you're regularly able to hit 40-50k in trials, I honestly wouldn't worry what the 6 mil dummy is telling you. The situations aren't comparable, especially when you use your setup to parse on the 6 mil.

madman65

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

madman65 wrote: »

Zaan head and shoulder, False gods shoes, belt, gloves and staves, Mothers sorrow chest, breeches, necklace and rings. Rotation: Channeled Acceleration and Blue Betty to start, Winter’s Revenge > LA > Unstable Wall of Elements > Weapon Swap
Deep Fissure > LA > Fetchers Infection > LA > Blood for Blood > LA > Deep Fissure > LA > Mystic Orb > LA > Blood for Blood > LA > Deep Fissure > Blood for Blood > Weapon Swap. Like I said, just like Alcast.

I don't run a vampire so I don't know how the BfB spammable works. But here's what I run on my non-vamp build:

Body: False Gods or Siroria (ideally you'd want MS body/Siroria weaps + jewels, but I don't have those), weaps + jewels: Mother's Sorrow; Zaan helm (actually, I mostly use Skoria at this point), vMA staff back bar

Front bar: Fissure, Screaming Cliff Racer, Fetcher Infection, Degeneration, Bird of Prey, bear
Back bar: Unstable Wall, Winter's Revenge, Blue Betty, Barbed Trap (parsing) or Channeled Acceleration (all other times), Bird of Prey, Bear

Buff Betty + whatever you're using for minor force, then

Unstable Wall -> swap
LA -> Fissure -> LA -> Fetcher -> LA -> swap
LA -> Winter's Revenge -> swap
LA -> Fissure -> LA -> Degen -> LA -> SCR
LA -> Fissure -> LA -> SCR -> LA -> SCR

Then just keep fissure -> skill -> skill -> fissure; prioritizing your DoTs then using SCR when they're all running.

I've found that if my last skill before a bar swap is Fissure or Winter's Revenge, it's quicker to swap right after casting than it is to try to get a light attack in between the skill and bar swap.

Based on your CMX, it looks like you're not casting Fissure as often as you should- as I'm sure you're well-aware, it's a huge source of damage. Lastly, you're using a build optimized for trials/the trial dummy, not a self-buffed parse. You're losing minor berserk on the back bar when you run this, which will decrease your DPS. False Gods will also not parse as high as Siroria, and the crazy high parses that you see people post are almost always using Siroria.

I'f you're regularly able to hit 40-50k in trials, I honestly wouldn't worry what the 6 mil dummy is telling you. The situations aren't comparable, especially when you use your setup to parse on the 6 mil.

I`ve played with the skills and found that if I start with Channeled then Betty and swap LA - Fissure swap Unstable Wall - -LA - Winter's Revenge then swap and start my rotation. I get a huge damage burst because of the wait time on Fissure and then Unstable Wall hits with it but soon the damage goes down. I guessing the frontbar is were i`m loosing the DPS but i`ve got the light weaving down very good. I run timers on the skills to make sure I keep them going. You have given me some ideas though, I`ll play around some more but i`m seriously burnt out and want to get into vet trials and vet pledges to give me more. I do want to know why you are running 2 Major Sorcery skills, I thought the Betty was the only one to put an the skills.

xWarbrain

madman65 wrote: »

I do want to know why you are running 2 Major Sorcery skills, I thought the Betty was the only one to put an the skills.

Degen is a good DoT to increase your overall DPS. Anything that does damage while you cast other things increases your DPS.

You might be overlooking the most important part of @SidraWillowsky's post:

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Lastly, you're using a build optimized for trials/the trial dummy, not a self-buffed parse. You're losing minor berserk on the back bar when you run this, which will decrease your DPS. False Gods will also not parse as high as Siroria, and the crazy high parses that you see people post are almost always using Siroria.

I'f you're regularly able to hit 40-50k in trials, I honestly wouldn't worry what the 6 mil dummy is telling you. The situations aren't comparable, especially when you use your setup to parse on the 6 mil.

End-game trial set ups might not do very high damage on the 6mil because you're not set up for that type of test.

Also... your image shows you are using the stamina morph of Elemental Weapon from the Psijic line.

Rake

Can I have your SSD

zvavi

The screenshot resolution is kinda bad can you upload it through different means?

madman65

Ok got some thing else going. I will try it out and see if it pans out, Thanks everyone.

Corrected the Ele weapon, good eye.

MashmalloMan

One last thing to note, not sure if I saw anyone say it, but your light attack weaving seems to be a weak point which is super important especially if you're using Ele Weapon which requires it.

Parse was 238 seconds, 183 light attacks. Thats a ratio of 0.77 every second. Aim for 0.85 or above to perfect that aspect of your rotations.

Now this either shows you've slowed down your rotation to about 1.2 - 1.3s every cast or.. more likely.. you're missing some light attacks in your rotation.

Forgive me if you're using a shock/ice staff on the back bar, the damage would be calculated seperately instead of on the fire light attack line, meaning we can't see it on your parse data.

madman65

MashmalloMan wrote: »

One last thing to note, not sure if I saw anyone say it, but your light attack weaving seems to be a weak point which is super important especially if you're using Ele Weapon which requires it.

Parse was 238 seconds, 183 light attacks. Thats a ratio of 0.77 every second. Aim for 0.85 or above to perfect that aspect of your rotations.

Now this either shows you've slowed down your rotation to about 1.2 - 1.3s every cast or.. more likely.. you're missing some light attacks in your rotation.

Forgive me if you're using a shock/ice staff on the back bar, the damage would be calculated seperately instead of on the fire light attack line, meaning we can't see it on your parse data.

I have trouble with sustaining Magicka at times. I have the Torc of Tonal Constancy that I have thought about using but unsure of how to use it in the setup. Heavy weaving helps but there is the fact of loosing DPS. I watch those timers and keep them going, I wished ESO would not have messed with the Vampire skills. I had no problem with sustaining when the Vampire skills were original. Just needed help with DPS at the time.

LeHarrt91

Do you have access to a Iron Atronach Trial Dummy? that will give you additional buffs and assist with sustain. Also a lot of people use the Ghastly Eye Drink when DPS testing.

MashmalloMan

madman65 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

One last thing to note, not sure if I saw anyone say it, but your light attack weaving seems to be a weak point which is super important especially if you're using Ele Weapon which requires it.

Parse was 238 seconds, 183 light attacks. Thats a ratio of 0.77 every second. Aim for 0.85 or above to perfect that aspect of your rotations.

Now this either shows you've slowed down your rotation to about 1.2 - 1.3s every cast or.. more likely.. you're missing some light attacks in your rotation.

Forgive me if you're using a shock/ice staff on the back bar, the damage would be calculated seperately instead of on the fire light attack line, meaning we can't see it on your parse data.

I have trouble with sustaining Magicka at times. I have the Torc of Tonal Constancy that I have thought about using but unsure of how to use it in the setup. Heavy weaving helps but there is the fact of loosing DPS. I watch those timers and keep them going, I wished ESO would not have messed with the Vampire skills. I had no problem with sustaining when the Vampire skills were original. Just needed help with DPS at the time.

Use blood for blood (edit: looks like you're using it, don't bother using ele weapon then, wasted slot). Your spammable is more than 30% of your rotation which becomes health instead of magicka, wardens get some offhealing from desummoning of animal companion abilities so you don't even need to cast a heal skill to stay topped up. In group content, you won't ever need to worry about this health cost. Remember, the higher dps you have the less sustain you need to kill something.

Your parse was also completed on a 6m dummy, barely anyone can sustain a full REAL light attack rotation on those things because of numerous reasons.

1. In actual content where dps matters you are in a group of 4-12 people where you earn essential buffs/debuffs you don't have available solo on a 6m dummy. Remember, the quicker something dies, the less sustain you need to kill it. This is why parses are done on trial dummies with parse food to similulate the massive sustain you get from multiple synergies (undaunted passive) and multiple group sustain sets.
   • Mag steal from Ele Drain isn't present, thats +300 magicka per second.
   • No synergies for undaunted passive.
   • No orb/shard synergy.
   • No sets like Symphony of Blades from a healer that gives +3420 magicka every 18s.
   • No sets like The Worm's Raiment from a healer for -4% cost.
2. 6m health, solo, no group damage buffs/debuffs is a LOT of HP to get through. It's simply unrealistic, which probably means your building for extra sustain you don't actually need, further lowering your dps or your forced into using heavy attacks that you don't need either.

If you want to get more accurate parses in terms of your solo sustain, you should stick to a 3m dummy.

If you want a more accurate parse for your highest potential dps, the raid dummy is the way to go, thats where all end game parses come from, it's where you'll see 85-100k parses. Just make sure to use parse food (magicka + magicka regen, no health). This is used to similuate the extra sustain from a real, possibly even shorter fight.

madman65

Up to 29K, Blood for Blood skill is at 1st level so still have to get level 4. Switched food to Witchmother`s potent brew, I know it`s not the optimal food but the Magicka last longer( I still run out).

https://imgur.com/a/yTQXT0Y

madman65

Cracked 30K, Yes! Thanks for the help everyone.

https://imgur.com/a/r3ySQjQ

I believe with a couple of skill slot that can be use to alternate as needed, I can get a little more variations from trial to trial. Thanks again.

fred4

madman65 wrote: »

Tried Alcast build, Dottz build, variations of those builds, tried my own builds. Just not making the DPS that they are suppose to make and YES I can weave. From day one I`ve had trouble and now that I have 1GB internet and SSD for the game I should make more. Just not happening, So I give up.

I'm in the same boat. I'm quite sure I once followed a basic Alcast rotation against a target skeleton correctly - this was some time ago - but I never came close to the DPS he showed in his video. It was back when there were only conventional target skeletons and I think he parsed 35K to 40K with a static rotation. I maybe did two thirds of that. The best I ever got on a different build was 30K on my magplar. This was at a time when 40K+ was the norm.

I also have to confess I dislike this approach to the game. Perfecting your rotation and learning or bypassing mechanics perfectly is the logical conclusion that high-end PvEers arrive at. That doesn't mean I have to like it. One of the starkest embodiments of what happens in the arms race between ZOS dungeon designers and top PvEers is, perhaps, the final arena of vDSA. This is commonly done at the door, with the tank pulling the adds away and 3 DDs burning the boss. I prefer more chaotic fights, the way the arena was perhaps intended, but it seemed suicide to even try.

As a mostly solo / small-scale PvPer, my builds tend to be well-rounded. I modify them for PvE, but always include more defensive and utility skills than a typical PvE DD would. While I know to use synergies and there may be Elemental Drain up, I also prefer to have good sustain. I don't run with perfectly coordinated teams and don't do trials.

What's been a godsend for me is Thrassian Stranglers. Currently wearing 2x Slimecraw, Thrassian, 4x New Moon (yes 4x only) and 5x Pariah on my magplar. This is still experimental. It gets you to 7K spell damage (fully buffed), with plenty of sustain. I decided from the get go to try Pariah for the increased health and resistances. It may not be necessary, but it certainly feels about right in vMA, not really squishier than before, but with a lot more damage. The problem with this build is that, if you die, you have to build up the stacks again. Not a big deal in vMA, but in group content you don't always seem to be credited with kills you've contributed to, so it takes longer. This is especially painful if the group wipes on a single-target boss or, worse, they decide to do so deliberately for some reason like having forgotten to invoke hardmode or having failed with the burning strategy in vDSA.

For what it's worth: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=247042

I have no trial experience and no trial sets. This build may not be one to use there. It is, however, tested in vMA and vDSA. A few notes:

Pariah jewelry was available reasonably cheap in gold, so I went with that. You don't have to, nor do you have to make it Swift. I find gold jewelry marginally worth it for Swift and Infused.

Restoring Focus. This is a sacrifice I'm used to from PvP. Less necessary in PvE, but dodge roll, break free and block sustain will help you survive. You will want to survive to keep the Thrassian buff up. Getting your stam sustain from the rune means it keeps going during block and sprint.

I'm using an ice staff on the backbar for much the same reason. In emergency I tend to block cast Honor the Dead. It's a PvP habit. The ice staff helps.

Elemental Blockade is there to keep the infused backbar enchant procced. Solar Barrage gives you Minor Sorcery. Major Sorcery and Prophecy comes from a potion.

Toppling Charge can be swapped out for Blazing Spear, but it is useful to stun certain targets in vMA, such as "Taking Aim" archers, zombies, ice platform trolls, and so on.

RAT is just something I refuse to live without. Use Channeled Acceleration for better uptime on Minor Force.

What's so brilliant about Stranglers is that they suit a player (PvPer) who is not a pure DD and is used to incorporating defensive play into their rotation. The increased damage you do allows you to do more DPS with fewer attack skills and a less than perfect rotation, while defensive buff cycles you learnt in PvP carry over to offset the increased damage you take.

TheDarkoil

About a year ago as a mag sorc torugs pact infused weapon + elegance, master of arms, heavy/light attack and elemental damage cp dump would reach 25 - 30k by just light attacking, no buffs or anything, throw in a couple of pets ele drain, pots and a ulti every so often and you was laughing. Go basic first and build on it instead of trying to copy complicated rotations and builds. More fun to design your own build i feel as well.

MEBengalsFan2001

To many players focus on sparring target damage. I have seen some great players who do 100K on the sparring perform wonderfully in content; I have also seen players who have done 100k on a sparring target be worst than a DPS that does 20K on the sparring target.

The issue I have is to many end game guilds want sparring target DPS videos. Well that is all fine and good but the truth is if you can't stay alive in PVE as a damage dealer your DPS isn't going to be 100K if I'm picking you up every 5 seconds on my healer. It would be much lower. I rather just run with a player who does less damage and doesn't die.

One of the best DPS I have seen told me straight away, I do great damage but I'm dead most of the time and he was right. He died religiously but when he was up he did way more damage than the rest of the DPS in the trial group combined. He probably produced 25% of the trial damage but was dead 50% of the time. .

madman65

I checked a parse here the other day that I did in vSS, I was hitting over 110K on the boss. I can get my DPS to hit from a burst and then I try to keep it there but the DPS starts dropping. I`m pouring damage into the target and watching my timers then I look at my Magicka and it`s almost empty. Should I put more points into Tenacity to get more Magicka back from heavy attacks?

LeHarrt91

madman65 wrote: »

I checked a parse here the other day that I did in vSS, I was hitting over 110K on the boss. I can get my DPS to hit from a burst and then I try to keep it there but the DPS starts dropping. I`m pouring damage into the target and watching my timers then I look at my Magicka and it`s almost empty. Should I put more points into Tenacity to get more Magicka back from heavy attacks?

If your using the 6 mil dummy and using Arteum pickled fish (purple Max health and max magicka food) your magicka will drain very quickly because you are not getting added sustain from Elemental Drain and synergies like Orbs/ Shards. If you are testing on the trial dummies its best to use the Ghastly Eye food and it simulates trial sustain the best. Even if using Witch Mothers try Ghastly Eye instead its more recovery and more max magicka.

When i parse on the 21M Trial Dummy, i feel i never drop below 50%

Also just checking your keeping your Blue Betty up all the time?