Is Zenimax getting desperate? (Just venting)

Starlock

Elsonso wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I am just discussing the shift in marketing

That's just it. I don't see any shift in marketing. They may be improving on it, but this goes back YEARS with this game.

If by "improving" you mean that they're continuing the trend of more aggressive and annoying ways of pushing monetization, sure. I suppose a real shift would be reversing that throttle instead of applying more gas to it. But when some of us talk about a shift in marketing, we're talking about new ways they're pushing monetization. And it is objectively true that what's been done with the antiquities system has some important distinctions from previously used methods. Most notably:

• Customers who purchase Greymoor must make additional purchases to obtain all the content from a key chapter feature for the very first time. While in some ways this makes sense for the system, the idea of additional purchases being required to utilize a key chapter feature to its fullest sets a troubling precedent.
• A key feature of a chapter has an expiry timer attached to it that isn't clearly explained to the customer anywhere and serves no clear gameplay purpose. As such, it's probably reasonable to conclude that it only exists to pressure the customer into either compulsive play or making a purchase.

To be fair, ZOS could have done worse with this system in terms of trying to stuff monetization motive into it. A lot worse. Just removing the dumb expiration on leads by itself would make this system a lot more customer friendly, though. As I've been playing antiquities, I keep wondering why leads don't expire as a consequence of failure. That would have actually made sense, and put a sort of "timer" on the system that tied into the gameplay a lot more.

Elsonso

Starlock wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I am just discussing the shift in marketing

That's just it. I don't see any shift in marketing. They may be improving on it, but this goes back YEARS with this game.

If by "improving" you mean that they're continuing the trend of more aggressive and annoying ways of pushing monetization, sure. I suppose a real shift would be reversing that throttle instead of applying more gas to it. But when some of us talk about a shift in marketing, we're talking about new ways they're pushing monetization. And it is objectively true that what's been done with the antiquities system has some important distinctions from previously used methods. Most notably:

• Customers who purchase Greymoor must make additional purchases to obtain all the content from a key chapter feature for the very first time. While in some ways this makes sense for the system, the idea of additional purchases being required to utilize a key chapter feature to its fullest sets a troubling precedent.
• A key feature of a chapter has an expiry timer attached to it that isn't clearly explained to the customer anywhere and serves no clear gameplay purpose. As such, it's probably reasonable to conclude that it only exists to pressure the customer into either compulsive play or making a purchase.

To be fair, ZOS could have done worse with this system in terms of trying to stuff monetization motive into it. A lot worse. Just removing the dumb expiration on leads by itself would make this system a lot more customer friendly, though. As I've been playing antiquities, I keep wondering why leads don't expire as a consequence of failure. That would have actually made sense, and put a sort of "timer" on the system that tied into the gameplay a lot more.

Yeah, I guess I just see these as new ways to do the same thing they have been doing. By that, I mean that it is no longer unexpected that ZOS will put paid content out in front of people who have not paid for it, and yes, even making it so that content cascades where you buy Greymoor but it also requires DLC content that you may not own to collect all of the leads. To me, this is all the same thing, just different approaches, and I expect it.

Davor

Destai wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Usually I don't say this, but after having the huge, bug on Xbox where we can't sell our goods to the Fences and then encountering this, just made me want to vent.

I haven't bought Greymoor, so when I encountered a page about scrying (or what ever it is called) I look into the details in how to do it, and Zenimax basically says you need to buy Greymoor to do it. Like WTF? I don't recall ever having to buy a "story" to be able to do something that gives you in game to do. At least Summerset never did it. I know when I didn't buy Summerset right away on Xbox (did on PC) I never got something on Xbox to say "here you go, do this but need to buy Summerset to do.

So is Zenimax getting desperate now, by giving something, a simple where to scrye without buying Greymoor, so people would buy it now? I am not looking forward to finding all these scrying pages if I can't do them.

Maybe this is a free feature in the base game now and I just don't know about it, [snip] (Yes I know the actual workers, the coders, the programmers are doing an awesome job, [snip]

Just venting since we can't sell our stolen items to Fences, something we paid for and should be able to do. This just shows how Zenimax doesn't even do any quality checks on the consoles and do just straight ports from PC. This should have been found within 5 minutes of playing. Maybe Zenimax does do quality checks [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

God it'd be GREAT if I actually knew what you originally said. I guess seeing that [snip] makes me think higher of ZOS. /s

They're relying increasingly on aggressive marketing tactics, which I'd interpret as a sign of desperation. It's always been there, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of folks. This game goes F2P, I'm out.

To tell the truth, I don't even remember what I said. As I said, I was just venting. I didn't think what I said was bashing. So to Zenimax Online, I will apologize for bashing since it wasn't my intent. I guess I did go off a tangent. I try to stick to the rules, guess being upset at the time, from not being able to play my play style got the better of me.

Destai

Davor wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Usually I don't say this, but after having the huge, bug on Xbox where we can't sell our goods to the Fences and then encountering this, just made me want to vent.

I haven't bought Greymoor, so when I encountered a page about scrying (or what ever it is called) I look into the details in how to do it, and Zenimax basically says you need to buy Greymoor to do it. Like WTF? I don't recall ever having to buy a "story" to be able to do something that gives you in game to do. At least Summerset never did it. I know when I didn't buy Summerset right away on Xbox (did on PC) I never got something on Xbox to say "here you go, do this but need to buy Summerset to do.

So is Zenimax getting desperate now, by giving something, a simple where to scrye without buying Greymoor, so people would buy it now? I am not looking forward to finding all these scrying pages if I can't do them.

Maybe this is a free feature in the base game now and I just don't know about it, [snip] (Yes I know the actual workers, the coders, the programmers are doing an awesome job, [snip]

Just venting since we can't sell our stolen items to Fences, something we paid for and should be able to do. This just shows how Zenimax doesn't even do any quality checks on the consoles and do just straight ports from PC. This should have been found within 5 minutes of playing. Maybe Zenimax does do quality checks [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

God it'd be GREAT if I actually knew what you originally said. I guess seeing that [snip] makes me think higher of ZOS. /s

They're relying increasingly on aggressive marketing tactics, which I'd interpret as a sign of desperation. It's always been there, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of folks. This game goes F2P, I'm out.

To tell the truth, I don't even remember what I said. As I said, I was just venting. I didn't think what I said was bashing. So to Zenimax Online, I will apologize for bashing since it wasn't my intent. I guess I did go off a tangent. I try to stick to the rules, guess being upset at the time, from not being able to play my play style got the better of me.

Thing is, it'd look WAY better for ZOS if someone's words weren't changed. If they took the criticism gracefully, I think a lot more people would respect them around here. People have every right to be mad when they've invested money into a product and it continually disappoints. The least they can do is just let people vent, especially since community engagement is at a premium here.

Whenever I see a thread on Reddit asking about getting into this game, I just show them how our comments are curtailed and it's changed the mind of some potential customers. It's not right and people are going to hear about it one way or another.

Davor

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I've been seeing "limited time offer!" TV/radio/print advertisements for over 4 decades now. People trying to sell things, appealing to the customer's "fear of missing out" is not some new thing.

(and yeah, it's not even remotely a new thing here - there've been 'limited time' and 'ooh, here's a countdown until this item is removed' things in the crown store since before there were Chapters.)

Only difference is that posting forum rants about "FOMO" is a popular FOTM topic.



Advertising has been trying to convince you to BUY BUY BUY for centuries (using time pressure, sex, appeals to your vanity, the threat that your neighbor/rival might have better stuff than you, and more). Part of being an adult is learning to have some control over yourself, so as not to be the picture next to "A fool and his money are soon parted".

This reminds me of watching TV shows and now during the show before and after watching commercials, now you have comercials during the TV shows now.

I wonder what is next, going to a movie in a cinema, and watching 1/2 hour of commercials the two hour movie starts, but at every 15 minutes, we get a commercial and maybe even advertising as the movie is playing.

You find that acceptable? If do, I respect your decision.

Davor

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I wouldn't play if there was a sub. if you want to run the lastest xpac, you do have to pay $40/yr, otherwise you can buy all the old stuff as DLC with gold/crowns.

I fully agree. If you want to play something, need to pay for it. Thing is, when I didn't buy Summerset on Xbox, I never got the "in your face" that I am missing out. It's almost like a dangling carrot. Oh, I can scry. Cool I thought. What do I need to do. Oh I need this thing a ma gig. OK, no problem. I need to go to a part in Skyrim to get it. Oh, I need to buy expansion to do it.

I guess why bother have it in a game if someone can't use it? If I don't want it, fine, don't show me it. It's like Bethesda's Creation Club. I don't want anything that the Creation Club is offering, but Bethesda forces us to download it onto our hard drives anyway. So why bother giving files for people who don't want them?

The way I see it, you put a file on my hard drive, I should have access to it. If I don't want it, then it shouldn't be on my computer. When I do want it, I should pay for it, then the files go onto my computer.

So in this case, I haven't bought Greymoor yet. So when I pick something up, don't show me the pages.

Kiralyn2000

Davor wrote: »

This reminds me of watching TV shows and now during the show before and after watching commercials, now you have comercials during the TV shows now.

Don't really follow what you're trying to say here (TV shows have been broken up by commercials every ~12 minutes for decades), but if it's something new I wouldn't know - haven't watched a TV series since 2010.

Red_Feather

I kind of thought the same thing as this topic when I saw thieves troves for the first few times.

Davor

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

This reminds me of watching TV shows and now during the show before and after watching commercials, now you have comercials during the TV shows now.

Don't really follow what you're trying to say here (TV shows have been broken up by commercials every ~12 minutes for decades), but if it's something new I wouldn't know - haven't watched a TV series since 2010.

Yeah, some channels or networks run ads during the show. Sometimes the lower quarter of the screen (or a bit less) will have a ticker like a scrolling billboard or something like that for about 15 or so seconds. Like come on, we just watched commercials we need to watch more now, during our show?

Another one I hate is "virtual advertising". Like in hockey, there will be advertising on the windows behind the net, or in baseball, advertising on the third base line. Same for soccer and other sports. I just hate it.

TheValkyn

Destai wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Usually I don't say this, but after having the huge, bug on Xbox where we can't sell our goods to the Fences and then encountering this, just made me want to vent.

I haven't bought Greymoor, so when I encountered a page about scrying (or what ever it is called) I look into the details in how to do it, and Zenimax basically says you need to buy Greymoor to do it. Like WTF? I don't recall ever having to buy a "story" to be able to do something that gives you in game to do. At least Summerset never did it. I know when I didn't buy Summerset right away on Xbox (did on PC) I never got something on Xbox to say "here you go, do this but need to buy Summerset to do.

So is Zenimax getting desperate now, by giving something, a simple where to scrye without buying Greymoor, so people would buy it now? I am not looking forward to finding all these scrying pages if I can't do them.

Maybe this is a free feature in the base game now and I just don't know about it, [snip] (Yes I know the actual workers, the coders, the programmers are doing an awesome job, [snip]

Just venting since we can't sell our stolen items to Fences, something we paid for and should be able to do. This just shows how Zenimax doesn't even do any quality checks on the consoles and do just straight ports from PC. This should have been found within 5 minutes of playing. Maybe Zenimax does do quality checks [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

God it'd be GREAT if I actually knew what you originally said. I guess seeing that [snip] makes me think higher of ZOS. /s

They're relying increasingly on aggressive marketing tactics, which I'd interpret as a sign of desperation. It's always been there, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of folks. This game goes F2P, I'm out.

@Destai

It’s already free to play on Xbox.

That's game pass and I'm on PS4 mostly. It's a buy-to-play game.

If it’s on games pass then it’s free to play. Tbh, my pass is bundled with my Xbox live cost.

The game is f2p.

Destai

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Usually I don't say this, but after having the huge, bug on Xbox where we can't sell our goods to the Fences and then encountering this, just made me want to vent.

I haven't bought Greymoor, so when I encountered a page about scrying (or what ever it is called) I look into the details in how to do it, and Zenimax basically says you need to buy Greymoor to do it. Like WTF? I don't recall ever having to buy a "story" to be able to do something that gives you in game to do. At least Summerset never did it. I know when I didn't buy Summerset right away on Xbox (did on PC) I never got something on Xbox to say "here you go, do this but need to buy Summerset to do.

So is Zenimax getting desperate now, by giving something, a simple where to scrye without buying Greymoor, so people would buy it now? I am not looking forward to finding all these scrying pages if I can't do them.

Maybe this is a free feature in the base game now and I just don't know about it, [snip] (Yes I know the actual workers, the coders, the programmers are doing an awesome job, [snip]

Just venting since we can't sell our stolen items to Fences, something we paid for and should be able to do. This just shows how Zenimax doesn't even do any quality checks on the consoles and do just straight ports from PC. This should have been found within 5 minutes of playing. Maybe Zenimax does do quality checks [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

God it'd be GREAT if I actually knew what you originally said. I guess seeing that [snip] makes me think higher of ZOS. /s

They're relying increasingly on aggressive marketing tactics, which I'd interpret as a sign of desperation. It's always been there, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of folks. This game goes F2P, I'm out.

@Destai

It’s already free to play on Xbox.

That's game pass and I'm on PS4 mostly. It's a buy-to-play game.

If it’s on games pass then it’s free to play. Tbh, my pass is bundled with my Xbox live cost.

The game is f2p.

Oh my god, no it's not. For every other system, you have to buy the game. That cost has just been included in the game pass. The entire game design shows that you have to buy the game. Neverwinter is free to play. Warzone is free to play. If you didn't have game pass, you'd have to buy the bloody game.

TheValkyn

Destai wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Usually I don't say this, but after having the huge, bug on Xbox where we can't sell our goods to the Fences and then encountering this, just made me want to vent.

I haven't bought Greymoor, so when I encountered a page about scrying (or what ever it is called) I look into the details in how to do it, and Zenimax basically says you need to buy Greymoor to do it. Like WTF? I don't recall ever having to buy a "story" to be able to do something that gives you in game to do. At least Summerset never did it. I know when I didn't buy Summerset right away on Xbox (did on PC) I never got something on Xbox to say "here you go, do this but need to buy Summerset to do.

So is Zenimax getting desperate now, by giving something, a simple where to scrye without buying Greymoor, so people would buy it now? I am not looking forward to finding all these scrying pages if I can't do them.

Maybe this is a free feature in the base game now and I just don't know about it, [snip] (Yes I know the actual workers, the coders, the programmers are doing an awesome job, [snip]

Just venting since we can't sell our stolen items to Fences, something we paid for and should be able to do. This just shows how Zenimax doesn't even do any quality checks on the consoles and do just straight ports from PC. This should have been found within 5 minutes of playing. Maybe Zenimax does do quality checks [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

God it'd be GREAT if I actually knew what you originally said. I guess seeing that [snip] makes me think higher of ZOS. /s

They're relying increasingly on aggressive marketing tactics, which I'd interpret as a sign of desperation. It's always been there, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of folks. This game goes F2P, I'm out.

@Destai

It’s already free to play on Xbox.

That's game pass and I'm on PS4 mostly. It's a buy-to-play game.

If it’s on games pass then it’s free to play. Tbh, my pass is bundled with my Xbox live cost.

The game is f2p.

Oh my god, no it's not. For every other system, you have to buy the game. That cost has just been included in the game pass. The entire game design shows that you have to buy the game. Neverwinter is free to play. Warzone is free to play. If you didn't have game pass, you'd have to buy the bloody game.

The game is f2p on both Stadia and Xbox. That’s 2/4 platforms. The game is f2p.

DC Universe Online requires a Xbox live membership and PSN too I think which both require a third party service. It’s considered f2p. Not b2p.

This game now does everything f2p except openly call itself f2p.

No upfront cost on 2/4 platforms.
Ads every time you log in or a “daily reward” is ready.
Receiving in-game items that you can’t actually use until you demolish the paywall.
Cash shop similar to f2p titles. Crates, power shortcuts etc.

With that said it’s OK to like a f2p game. I love SWTOR and Dcuo. Like - those are two of my favorite games!

Come to think of it. Both handle eCommerce in a more responsible way. SWTOR all but went back to direct sale items. I haven’t seen a new cartel crate in AGES. That’s EA! LOLOLOLOL

Destai

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Usually I don't say this, but after having the huge, bug on Xbox where we can't sell our goods to the Fences and then encountering this, just made me want to vent.

I haven't bought Greymoor, so when I encountered a page about scrying (or what ever it is called) I look into the details in how to do it, and Zenimax basically says you need to buy Greymoor to do it. Like WTF? I don't recall ever having to buy a "story" to be able to do something that gives you in game to do. At least Summerset never did it. I know when I didn't buy Summerset right away on Xbox (did on PC) I never got something on Xbox to say "here you go, do this but need to buy Summerset to do.

So is Zenimax getting desperate now, by giving something, a simple where to scrye without buying Greymoor, so people would buy it now? I am not looking forward to finding all these scrying pages if I can't do them.

Maybe this is a free feature in the base game now and I just don't know about it, [snip] (Yes I know the actual workers, the coders, the programmers are doing an awesome job, [snip]

Just venting since we can't sell our stolen items to Fences, something we paid for and should be able to do. This just shows how Zenimax doesn't even do any quality checks on the consoles and do just straight ports from PC. This should have been found within 5 minutes of playing. Maybe Zenimax does do quality checks [snip]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

God it'd be GREAT if I actually knew what you originally said. I guess seeing that [snip] makes me think higher of ZOS. /s

They're relying increasingly on aggressive marketing tactics, which I'd interpret as a sign of desperation. It's always been there, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of folks. This game goes F2P, I'm out.

@Destai

It’s already free to play on Xbox.

That's game pass and I'm on PS4 mostly. It's a buy-to-play game.

If it’s on games pass then it’s free to play. Tbh, my pass is bundled with my Xbox live cost.

The game is f2p.

Oh my god, no it's not. For every other system, you have to buy the game. That cost has just been included in the game pass. The entire game design shows that you have to buy the game. Neverwinter is free to play. Warzone is free to play. If you didn't have game pass, you'd have to buy the bloody game.

The game is f2p on both Stadia and Xbox. That’s 2/4 platforms. The game is f2p.

If you don't have game pass, you have to buy it right? If you don't have Stadia Pro, you have to buy it right? It's not free to play on its own.

Here go click link and see what it says:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/the-elder-scrolls-online/brkx5crmrtc2?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

Until that's free to play the base game in and of itself, it's not free to play. I don't care what membership it's included in.

That being said, you're right, not all f2p games are garbage. I just can't think of a single one worth playing for my tastes.

shadyjane62

It should have been worth buying. It isn't.