Are additional vampire abilities cost reduction items percentage based on each other & not stacking?

daemondamian

In particular the reduction based on say stage 4 which is 24% & the Vampire Lord's set which is 20% - does that give 44% reduction of vampire abilities cost (stacking) or is it take one first off the base cost say the vampire stage & then VL 20% off of the resulting number you have from the cost reduction of being at stage 4?

Additionally do False God & Alteration Mastery stack with each other or are they apply one & then the other applies to that resulting number?

If not stacking for either of these armor/stage cost reduction combinations which of them applies first?

Also if stage 4 increases regular ability costs by 12% & you were wearing Alteration Mastery (& *not* VL just some other set say MS) which gives a 6% cost reduction on regular abilities would you then get just a 6% increase of regular ability cost or is it worked out another way?

MashmalloMan

Update 23 Scalebreaker:

• Sources of Stamina, Health, and Magicka cost reduction that are obtained from passives, abilities, or item sets are now all multiplicative, rather than being a mixture of additive and multiplicative.
  • This was done for a more streamlined behavior across the board, and limit the opportunity to reduce an ability's cost to 0 by stacking multiple sources of cost reduction.
  • Below is a list of the affected sources that also had adjustments made to them, since this will ultimately increase the cost of abilities when using multiple sources of cost reduction.
    • Restoring Spirit: Increased the cost at Rank II to 5% from 4%.
    • Unholy Knowledge: Increased the cost at Rank II to 6% from 5%.
    • Vampire Lord set: Increased to 6% from 5%.
    • Armor of the Seducer set: Increased to 10% from 8%.
    • Eyes of Mara set: Increased to 15% from 12%.

To your first question, Stage 4 + Vampire Lord set = 0.76 * 0.8 = 0.6. So this is an example of a 40% decrease, not 44% if it was additive.

To your second question, False God + Alteration Mastery + 5 Light Armor + Sorc + Breton = 0.92 * 0.94 * 0.9 * 0.94 * 0.93 = 0.68. If this was all additive, it would of been 0.63 instead.

Glyphs of cost reduction apply before % based cost reduction. This is why you typically don't want to bother with Cost Reduction glyphs if you have stacked a lot of % based cost reduction, you simply get less bang for your buck out of the glyphs.

For example: 2700 cost skill -600 cost from glyphs = 2100.
2100 * 0.7 = 1470
2100 - 1470 = 630
This shows that due to the -600 cost reduction from glyphs, your -30% cost reduction equates to -630 cost.

Take out the cost reduction glyphs now.
2700 * 0.7 = 1890
2700 - 1890 = 810
This shows that the same skill and same % based cost reduction reduces the cost by an extra 180 simply by using no cost reduction glyphs.

This is why a high cost reduction built, should usually aim for getting better regeneration instead of going for cost reduction glyphs.

To your third question, as stated in the light/heavy attack proposed changes for the pts in March 2020, Molag Kena's proposed change from +8% cost to -20% cost was so vastly different because... "Cost increase is additive with your overall cost, while cost decrease is multiplicative. This means decreasing your costs is far less effective than increasing them, resulting in a larger weight required when giving one or the other."

This is how I think it would look with -10% cost reduction, -8% cost reduction and +10% cost:
2700 * ((0.9 * 0.92) + 0.1) = cost
2700 * (0.828 + 0.1) = cost
2700 * 0.928 = cost
2505.6 = cost

Edit: Fixed answer 3.

daemondamian

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Update 23 Scalebreaker:

• Sources of Stamina, Health, and Magicka cost reduction that are obtained from passives, abilities, or item sets are now all multiplicative, rather than being a mixture of additive and multiplicative.
  • This was done for a more streamlined behavior across the board, and limit the opportunity to reduce an ability's cost to 0 by stacking multiple sources of cost reduction.
  • Below is a list of the affected sources that also had adjustments made to them, since this will ultimately increase the cost of abilities when using multiple sources of cost reduction.
    • Restoring Spirit: Increased the cost at Rank II to 5% from 4%.
    • Unholy Knowledge: Increased the cost at Rank II to 6% from 5%.
    • Vampire Lord set: Increased to 6% from 5%.
    • Armor of the Seducer set: Increased to 10% from 8%.
    • Eyes of Mara set: Increased to 15% from 12%.

To your first question, Stage 4 + Vampire Lord set = 0.76 * 0.8 = 0.6. So this is an example of a 40% decrease, not 44% if it was additive.

To your second question, False God + Alteration Mastery + 5 Light Armor + Sorc + Breton = 0.92 * 0.94 * 0.9 * 0.94 * 0.93 = 0.68. If this was all additive, it would of been 0.63 instead.

Glyphs of cost reduction apply before % based cost reduction. This is why you typically don't want to bother with Cost Reduction glyphs if you have stacked a lot of % based cost reduction, you simply get less bang for your buck out of the glyphs.

For example: 2700 cost skill -600 cost from glyphs = 2100.
2100 * 0.7 = 1470
2100 - 1470 = 630
This shows that due to the -600 cost reduction from glyphs, your -30% cost reduction equates to -630 cost.

Take out the cost reduction glyphs now.
2700 * 0.7 = 1890
2700 - 1890 = 810
This shows that the same skill and same % based cost reduction reduces the cost by an extra 180 simply by using no cost reduction glyphs.

This is why a high cost reduction built, should usually aim for getting better regeneration instead of going for cost reduction glyphs.

To your third question, as stated in the light/heavy attack proposed changes for the pts in March 2020, Molag Kena's proposed change from +8% cost to -20% cost was so vastly different because... "Cost increase is additive with your overall cost, while cost decrease is multiplicative. This means decreasing your costs is far less effective than increasing them, resulting in a larger weight required when giving one or the other."

This is how I think it would look with -10% cost reduction, -8% cost reduction and +10% cost:
2700 * ((0.9 * 0.92) + 0.1) = cost
2700 * (0.828 + 0.1) = cost
2700 * 0.928 = cost
2505.6 = cost

Edit: Fixed answer 3.

Thank you so much for your comprehensive reply!

I sometimes look at the patch notes but have never read them in their entirety & missed that specific detail.

I get why they wouldn't want costs being reduced to zero through additive or 'stacking' but it seems a little unfair or punishing & makes things like the Vampire Lord's set seem almost pointless in using given it 'adds' more to the cost of regular abilities.

I suppose one could back or front bar it with say the Crushing Wall on the other bar & put most of the vampire abilities along with the cheapest or no cost abilities on the bar with the VL staff - that way you'd get the (multiplicative) vampire ability cost reduction on the vampire abilities but then VL wouldn't apply to the abilities on the other bar.

Not sure it would be worth it though unless the other set were say Mother's Sorrow?