Roleplaying as a vampire

jm42

I'm so much disappointed with quests in this game. I started new char to try vampire and went to Rivenspire to do zone story, and speaking with Verandis I get that line about " you are vampire I kill you, monster11"(not exact quote but the meaning). I get it being stage 4 vamp myself and he doesnt recognize I'm a vampire too speaking that I may be disgusted with them drinking blood. Is it SO hard to add just 1 line in the dialog with NPC? I was so disappointed, though it seems not a big deal, but that's what I feel.

Dusk_Coven

Is that like a racial generic line?
Sort of like how, if you are in disguise for a quest, the NPCs might have an ambient line that refers to one of your heroics. Even though they aren't supposed to know who you are because, you know, you're in DISGUISE.

adriant1978

When the game launched there was a strict progression between zones and you were not "supposed" to be a vampire in Rivenspire because you could only get infected in Bangkorai, two zones later. One Tamriel swept all that away but they never went back and adjusted these older quests.

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

Glurin

jm42 wrote: »

Is it SO hard to add just 1 line in the dialog with NPC?

No, it isn't.

But it does get rather expensive and time consuming. Reason being, in order to get the right amount of immersion, you're not looking at just one line of dialogue with one NPC. It's quite a lot of work to include a condition check like that for something that very likely most people won't have. And keep in mind, the quests in that zone were written for a time when becoming a vampire meant going to the level 50 zone, which chronologically takes place after you're done here. So if you followed the proper sequence of events, you simply wouldn't be a vampire at this time.

jm42

adriant1978 wrote: »

When the game launched there was a strict progression between zones and you were not "supposed" to be a vampire in Rivenspire because you could only get infected in Bangkorai, two zones later. One Tamriel swept all that away but they never went back and adjusted these older quests.

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

yes, I get why that could be missed at the beginning, but how they could miss it again with all that pretty massive latest re-vamp?

Glurin

adriant1978 wrote: »

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

Now that I did find very odd. The whole chapter was built around the vampire theme. One of the big selling points was the vampire rework, even though it's not actually a feature of the chapter. It's very strange that there's only one, maybe two lines of dialogue that recognize you as a vampire, and that only happens if you explicitly tell the character that you are one.

jm42

Wow, I did Greymoor with non vampire char, and if there is little to no difference for vampire.... well, it is a disaster

Thevampirenight

adriant1978 wrote: »

When the game launched there was a strict progression between zones and you were not "supposed" to be a vampire in Rivenspire because you could only get infected in Bangkorai, two zones later. One Tamriel swept all that away but they never went back and adjusted these older quests.

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

Well it comes up in Dialog with Lyris. So she knows your a vampire and all.
Dlcs and chapters do have npcs that acknowledge it.

Ghanima_Atreides

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well it comes up in Dialog with Lyris. So she knows your a vampire and all.
Dlcs and chapters do have npcs that acknowledge it.

ONE line? Not nearly enough. Early on in the chapter she warns you off Fenn because "he was about to make a meal of you" and grumbles that "well if you can trust a vampire, I guess I can too" (after working together all along), Fenn does not acknowledge it, you can't tell him that you know the Ravenwatches, you can enter Meridia's temple freely after he makes that excuse about not being able to due to his nature, and that's only the beginning.

Giving Lyris an incongruous line that acknowledges your vampirism ONCE while blatantly ignoring it the rest of the time, in situations when it absolutely should have been brought up, does not mean that it's properly acknowledged. Particularly in a chapter that revolves around vampires.

TheRealDrRat

Its amazing and hilarious how ZOS truly deceived and fooled the lower level community with this patch. What with a BS "rework" on the vampire skill line and new gear sets that show no promise.

There's no shame - I bought the cure from the crown store also. Certainly not as expensive as the skill line itself, but hey it's CASH FLOW. Easy money for ZOS; I guarantee at least 60% of the active player base either bought the cure or the skill-line with crowns. Those who have recently revisited the game (after a short or long hiatus) would have most likely made a few extra purchases as well. That's all it is with the MMO RPGs.

Bradyfjord

adriant1978 wrote: »

When the game launched there was a strict progression between zones and you were not "supposed" to be a vampire in Rivenspire because you could only get infected in Bangkorai, two zones later. One Tamriel swept all that away but they never went back and adjusted these older quests.

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

You are correct for players starting in the Daggerfall Covenant faction.

Since I started in the Ebonheart Pact I encountered Rivenspire during Cadwell's Silver. Meaning chronologically (for me), the events of Rivenspire are encountered after I've been to level 50 zones.

I was disappointed in the writing for these npc's considering the vamp heavy story of that particular zone. Overall I liked the story and action, but I was disappointed that no npc's at all could tell that I was a vampire. However, I will say the good parts of the zone outweighed the bad.

Dusk_Coven

jm42 wrote: »

Is it SO hard to add just 1 line in the dialog with NPC?

The process may be straightforward but the cost is not. Writing the line plus voiceovers for the languages plus translations into other languages plus making the change to the coding.
It sounds straightforward to us but there's a lot of work involved for even one line.
Other games cut cost by not having voiceovers and just text to read for all dialog. But once you commit to voiceovers, the absence of voiceovers becomes too noticeable.

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Giving Lyris an incongruous line that acknowledges your vampirism ONCE while blatantly ignoring it the rest of the time, in situations when it absolutely should have been brought up, does not mean that it's properly acknowledged. Particularly in a chapter that revolves around vampires.

How often do you want it acknowledged? What if you weren't always a vampire when you interacted with her? What if you cure it later?
Sure it's disappointing, but there are time and cost limitations to how many contingencies they can address.

Major cases like Rivenspire, yeah I think they should have put more attention there and maybe go back and tweak some stuff especially interactions with other vampires. But they have to choose their battles for everything else. Can't spend the war chest on just the one thing.

Even Rivenspire -- compared to how vampire players are treated, they are a special case that don't have the locals pointing at them and calling the guards on them or refusing to deal with them. It's incongruous with the vampire rework so it's probably safer to just turn a blind eye to it.

And going back to tweak too many things opens up a huge can of worms. Theoretically they should rework all the just-before-Stirk quests now that you can go to any alliance before Cadwell's Silver and Gold. As it is, the rulers of the other alliances don't know you at all during those ruler-recruitment quests, even if you have 100% completion all their zones and all the npcs in those zones acknowledge you throughout Stirk and Coldharbour.
But that starts to add up a to a lot work when they have to instead spend their money -- and especially TIME -- bringing in new money with new content.

AlienSlof

adriant1978 wrote: »

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

This. ^

Also, merchants won't talk to me, tell me to get lost, yet bankers, quest givers, random npc's talk to me just fine. Inconsistent and not properly thought out!

jm42

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

The process may be straightforward but the cost is not. Writing the line plus voiceovers for the languages plus translations into other languages plus making the change to the coding.
It sounds straightforward to us but there's a lot of work involved for even one line.

maybe I'm not right here, but for me Graymoor costed like Witcher 3 at the start. Is it not enough for voiceovers for several dialogs?

adriant1978

Bradyfjord wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

When the game launched there was a strict progression between zones and you were not "supposed" to be a vampire in Rivenspire because you could only get infected in Bangkorai, two zones later. One Tamriel swept all that away but they never went back and adjusted these older quests.

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

You are correct for players starting in the Daggerfall Covenant faction.

Since I started in the Ebonheart Pact I encountered Rivenspire during Cadwell's Silver. Meaning chronologically (for me), the events of Rivenspire are encountered after I've been to level 50 zones.

Isn't the lore/fluff for Cadwell's Silver & Gold supposed to be that it's a kind of alternate timeline and people there will see you as if you were a completely different person just starting out in those alliances?

I forget exactly what the dialogue says because I haven't done those quests in so long, but I'm sure Cadwell says something along those lines to explain away why they won't see you as a member of an enemy alliance, so I suppose you could also stretch that to explaining why they don't see you as a vampire or whatever... but yeah.

Bradyfjord

adriant1978 wrote: »

Bradyfjord wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

When the game launched there was a strict progression between zones and you were not "supposed" to be a vampire in Rivenspire because you could only get infected in Bangkorai, two zones later. One Tamriel swept all that away but they never went back and adjusted these older quests.

Far worse, IMO, is that even in their latest and supposedly vampire themed chapter Greymoor there is depressingly little notice taken if you are a vamp.

You are correct for players starting in the Daggerfall Covenant faction.

Since I started in the Ebonheart Pact I encountered Rivenspire during Cadwell's Silver. Meaning chronologically (for me), the events of Rivenspire are encountered after I've been to level 50 zones.

Isn't the lore/fluff for Cadwell's Silver & Gold supposed to be that it's a kind of alternate timeline and people there will see you as if you were a completely different person just starting out in those alliances?

I forget exactly what the dialogue says because I haven't done those quests in so long, but I'm sure Cadwell says something along those lines to explain away why they won't see you as a member of an enemy alliance, so I suppose you could also stretch that to explaining why they don't see you as a vampire or whatever... but yeah.

I see what you mean. I still expected Verandis and company to recognize my vampire nature. It's all good though. I cured myself during the morrowind expansion when everyone and their brother was using the dawnbreaker ult.

Ghanima_Atreides

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

How often do you want it acknowledged? What if you weren't always a vampire when you interacted with her? What if you cure it later?
Sure it's disappointing, but there are time and cost limitations to how many contingencies they can address.

I was specifically talking about being a vampire when talking to Lyris. I don't expect the game to track when exactly I was turned and for how long, but I know it is possible for it to check whether the player is a vampire (or a certain race, or a werewolf) and react to it. As for how often - I want it acknowledged at key plot points, such as when meeting other vampires, when vampirism has an impact on the story (like Meridia's temple) or when non-vampire NPCs comment on vampirism but ignore the player being a vampire. I especially don't want NPCs, other vampires in particular, treating me as if I were a human or to be forced to make silly "oh no! A vampire!" type comments.

I know this isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but it does take away from the vampire experience if you never, or hardly ever, encounter anyone who notices that you are one. Especially, as I said, in a story that's all about vampires.

Dusk_Coven

jm42 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

The process may be straightforward but the cost is not. Writing the line plus voiceovers for the languages plus translations into other languages plus making the change to the coding.
It sounds straightforward to us but there's a lot of work involved for even one line.

maybe I'm not right here, but for me Graymoor costed like Witcher 3 at the start. Is it not enough for voiceovers for several dialogs?

Even assuming they had a few bucks left over, look at all the bugs in Greymoor. Clearly they ran out of time or resources to do a proper job. Compared to that your concern about years-old content isn't even on the radar.

kinguardian

Funny enough I thought something similar yesterday. I did a werewolf quest in the new chapter and no they did not recognise me as a werewolf also they almost never recognise you when you are the same race. I've only heard it twice in this game.

I do wish they made it like that it just gives a better experience.

I do love the quests and dialogue on this game it often makes me laugh. I really enjoy it.

idk

It is not about changing one line in the dialogue. It is about creating a sequence of logic in that part of the quest that checks to see if you are a vampire. If so then the alternate line of dialogue would be used. Considering the heightened sense of awareness vampires and WWs should have they should be able to detect those with their own curse/disease and even each other.

There are many opportunities in the base game that are lost and it is unfortunate but I doubt Zos will change it anytime soon.

Starlock

ESO is an action game with RPG elements. It isn't trying to be a meticulously crafted RPG experience and very few games attempt that because of how difficult it is to do properly. The only way you can really get that kind of experience is to go back to the very roots of RPGs - get together a group of friends and take out some pencils and sheets of paper. No computer program can replicate the creativity and narrative flexibility of tabletop roleplaying.

Nareya726

I haven't played Greymoor as a vampire yet, but I'm almost done with it on my werewolf and not even any of the werewolf NPCs have commented on it. Considering there's a sidequest in Summerset where I was recognized as a werewolf, I'm not sure why they couldn't add a few lines in Greymoor. Sure it's a small detail, but it feels silly to be walking around as a vampire or werewolf and not have anyone comment on it when that's the theme of the chapter.

AlienSlof

There is a part in the main quest in Greymoor where Lyris rants about Fenn: 'but he's a vampire, we can't trust that creature' then the player has the option to say 'so am I.' She's then all 'Oh well, you're all right, got no problem with your vampirism.' :P

Suddenly it is fine if the player is a vampire!

Vevvev

Honestly it feels like they did the least amount of effort possible to make a few NPCs acknowledge you're a vampire but not change the course of the story because of it. It would have been really cool if there were special dialog options that changed how a series of events went down had you been a vampire or a werewolf. Reason I say this is because a Scion of Lamae would obviously treat this vampire threat differently than lets say a Princess, a member of House Ravenwatch, or a half Giant Nord woman would. Especially with the events that happen in that side quest at Greymoor keep.

adriant1978

Starlock wrote: »

ESO is an action game with RPG elements. It isn't trying to be a meticulously crafted RPG experience and very few games attempt that because of how difficult it is to do properly. The only way you can really get that kind of experience is to go back to the very roots of RPGs - get together a group of friends and take out some pencils and sheets of paper. No computer program can replicate the creativity and narrative flexibility of tabletop roleplaying.

I don't think anyone is asking for a tabletop level of immersion, and surely it's too much to ask that the PC's vampirism be commented upon where relevant to the story of a chapter in which vampires feature heavily, nor wilfully ignored by NPCs in situations where they comment upon vampirism in themselves or other NPCs.

Not letting ZOS off the hook here.

jm42

basically, if they don't want to add something they could at least remove that stupid lines about "omg you are a vampire I will kill you" from vampire chars as it looks ridiculous

Starlock

adriant1978 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

ESO is an action game with RPG elements. It isn't trying to be a meticulously crafted RPG experience and very few games attempt that because of how difficult it is to do properly. The only way you can really get that kind of experience is to go back to the very roots of RPGs - get together a group of friends and take out some pencils and sheets of paper. No computer program can replicate the creativity and narrative flexibility of tabletop roleplaying.

I don't think anyone is asking for a tabletop level of immersion, and surely it's too much to ask that the PC's vampirism be commented upon where relevant to the story of a chapter in which vampires feature heavily, nor wilfully ignored by NPCs in situations where they comment upon vampirism in themselves or other NPCs.

Not letting ZOS off the hook here.

It's easier said than done. Setting aside that ESO has hundreds of quests and programming all these special interactions in would not exactly be a trivial task, I would agree if ESO was a text-based game or has very limited voice acting. There's also the issue that if they do this for vampires, vampires aren't special. Or rather, they'd need to do the same thing for werewolves as well at a minimum, and probably also add in special dialogue based on the player's race because that's something that's been commented on quite a bit as well. It gets complicated... fast.

Cerbolt

I was looking forward to going through a vampire themed expansion with my vamp but it ended up not being much different than with a moral character

adriant1978

Cerbolt wrote: »

I was looking forward to going through a vampire themed expansion with my vamp but it ended up not being much different than with a moral character

Yes, exactly. Even if it's too much trouble (read: too expensive) to make references to your character as a vampire a running theme throughout the entire game, if there was any piece of content where extra effort should have been made then it was surely this heavily vampire-themed chapter.