Atrocious state of unbalance

Trailed

Just had a match that was 2 stamplars and 2 dks vs 8, the game was over in under 4 min with a score of 500-less than 50 on each other team. They would literally roll around untouchable and destroy every caster and just about everything else in their path. No I wasn't playing on a vampire, though I'm not sure how many others were. However its pretty ridiculous that you can't cast coming out of a portal from the spawn in a BG when combat could potentially be going on nearby. Come out with a delay to be blown up before you can cast a shield or a heal. Is anything going to be done to address the fact that casters are completely worthless in PvP at the moment, or the fact that due to not being able to queue in any form of group, you can have matches like this.

There was a player on my team that totaled 30k dmg. Now i'm not sure if that is due to lack of experience or just being blown up before being able to cast an instant spell, but the current state of battlegrounds for casters is absolutely atrocious.

Noctus

it is pretty obvious by now that some classes are stronger than others gotta wait for devs to fix it and elevate some lower classes.

Alomar

That's ESO for you. Unlike most mmo's who do gradual small balancing patches every couple of weeks to push a meta in a certain direction ESO does wide-spread huge meta changes patches twice a year that flip flops from one direction to another. Meanwhile, most mmo's prefer to buff counters instead of large nerfs that ruin builds for years....ESO destroys builds/sets/playstyles for years with ridiculously large nerfs. If it's not the cash shop or loot crates it's not a priority.

Mortiis13

Enjoy it as long as it last, in 6 months u will wish update 26 balance back

precambria

The best advice I can give is, if you want real PvP play a video game that has it as a feature and not this one.

Commandment

It must be the premades!

Trailed

precambria wrote: »

The best advice I can give is, if you want real PvP play a video game that has it as a feature and not this one.

Yea its pretty [snip] pathetic. Literally every single character I have is useless regardless of what gear I run or the build it seems so long as its magic and not a templar. Sorc basically has the option to spam shield and streak, if you're not doing that you're dead. Magcro takes far too long to setup in PvP to be of any use. At least Magblade has a stealth they can jump into at will, which has easily become the best option for staying alive from what I have seen. Magden has always been a better support than anything.

Its pretty sad that I am considering quitting a sorc I have played since beta and all of my other characters to play a Templar of sorts just to enjoy this games PvP.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Vara

All of the main pvp streamers are saying that magsorc is the strongest class right now... I play magsorc and destroy. Before Greymoor templar was God tier but with the changes to vamp templar lost the ability to deal with ranged attackers. Range is literally the biggest weakness a templar has.

Vara

Alomar wrote: »

That's ESO for you. Unlike most mmo's who do gradual small balancing patches every couple of weeks to push a meta in a certain direction ESO does wide-spread huge meta changes patches twice a year that flip flops from one direction to another. Meanwhile, most mmo's prefer to buff counters instead of large nerfs that ruin builds for years....ESO destroys builds/sets/playstyles for years with ridiculously large nerfs. If it's not the cash shop or loot crates it's not a priority.

Have you seen the changes that other games do like Overwatch or League of legends?? They purposely add massive changes to break up the meta. This is very common and keeps the games interesting for players because you have to adapt to the new play style. It also makes it easier for new players to get in. If we only ever had one meta all the players who have been playing that meta for years would destroy anyone coming in fresh. I for one have been looking forward to the meta switch and have been enjoying it very much. Now that templar and dk have both been removed from god/unkillable tier the game is much better.

Vara

Commandment wrote: »

It must be the premades!

xD

Vara

Mortiis13 wrote: »

Enjoy it as long as it last, in 6 months u will wish update 26 balance back

Yup once the pros figure out the new meta have fun getting stomped into the ground lol

Atherakhia

I've been playing MMOs for a very long time. I'm used to the ebb and flow that is class balance. While I've not seen things quite this bad for quite this long in other MMOs in general for awhile, one thing I am concerned with is the lack of candor on the subject. Nearly every MMO I've played over the past 20 years or more have had a stronger community presence and they put actual effort into steering class discussions. Even during the PTS where you would expect dialog with the developers about the game they were silent.

I'm convinced ESO is a sinking ship and they're treating it as a cash grab with all the microtransactions. Look at the last patch. There was an alarming lack of content that was released with it and almost all of the content that was added is rehashed stuff that was already in the game.

ZOS is going out of their way it seems to advertise competing games with how poorly they've been handling things the last few months.

Alomar

Vara wrote: »

Alomar wrote: »

That's ESO for you. Unlike most mmo's who do gradual small balancing patches every couple of weeks to push a meta in a certain direction ESO does wide-spread huge meta changes patches twice a year that flip flops from one direction to another. Meanwhile, most mmo's prefer to buff counters instead of large nerfs that ruin builds for years....ESO destroys builds/sets/playstyles for years with ridiculously large nerfs. If it's not the cash shop or loot crates it's not a priority.

Have you seen the changes that other games do like Overwatch or League of legends?? They purposely add massive changes to break up the meta. This is very common and keeps the games interesting for players because you have to adapt to the new play style. It also makes it easier for new players to get in. If we only ever had one meta all the players who have been playing that meta for years would destroy anyone coming in fresh. I for one have been looking forward to the meta switch and have been enjoying it very much. Now that templar and dk have both been removed from god/unkillable tier the game is much better.

I said mmo's you just listed two MOBA's. So.....glad we agree.

Trailed

Vara wrote: »

All of the main pvp streamers are saying that magsorc is the strongest class right now... I play magsorc and destroy. Before Greymoor templar was God tier but with the changes to vamp templar lost the ability to deal with ranged attackers. Range is literally the biggest weakness a templar has.

As they all play Stamina variants. I do not enjoy watching streamers, and I have been watching them recently. Not one I have seen streaming in PvP, Cyrodiil or BGs was playing a magicka character of any sorts. Even the sorcs I saw were stam.

Amksed1991

Trailed wrote: »

Vara wrote: »

All of the main pvp streamers are saying that magsorc is the strongest class right now... I play magsorc and destroy. Before Greymoor templar was God tier but with the changes to vamp templar lost the ability to deal with ranged attackers. Range is literally the biggest weakness a templar has.

As they all play Stamina variants. I do not enjoy watching streamers, and I have been watching them recently. Not one I have seen streaming in PvP, Cyrodiil or BGs was playing a magicka character of any sorts. Even the sorcs I saw were stam.

I'm in their channels a bit.

Most don't play Magsorc cause it's a tad cheesy.
PainInTheAxe pays a really good MagDK.

HalvarIronfist

Trailed wrote: »

Just had a match that was 2 stamplars and 2 dks vs 8, the game was over in under 4 min with a score of 500-less than 50 on each other team. They would literally roll around untouchable and destroy every caster and just about everything else in their path. No I wasn't playing on a vampire, though I'm not sure how many others were. However its pretty ridiculous that you can't cast coming out of a portal from the spawn in a BG when combat could potentially be going on nearby. Come out with a delay to be blown up before you can cast a shield or a heal. Is anything going to be done to address the fact that casters are completely worthless in PvP at the moment, or the fact that due to not being able to queue in any form of group, you can have matches like this.

There was a player on my team that totaled 30k dmg. Now i'm not sure if that is due to lack of experience or just being blown up before being able to cast an instant spell, but the current state of battlegrounds for casters is absolutely atrocious.

Stamdk main here. The only thing thats even remotely annoying about stamplars is the atrocious damage of jabs compared to other stamina spammables IMO.

As for rolling around and untouchable? If they're dodging well, LOS-breaking and properly healing themselves, then it has nothing to do with the class/build being OP. That's just proper movement and positioning.

For example, as a Stamdk I DONT EXPECT a magsorc to attempt to face-tank my damage/pressure/burst combos. If you do it and die, then what did you expect? In return, if I want to survive a high burst combo I need to rotate my buffs, break LOS to not be hit by further ST abilities, and keep my heals up.

Are casters worthless? No. Not at all. Except maybe magblade. I loved playing magblade, but it just feels so outclassed by almost everything, even magcro.. which is saying something.

Edit: I hope they do bring back group BGs. I'm tired of how the solo queue games tend to pan out as a trend for me. It ends up being 1v1v1 between 3 carrying players with cannon fodder teammates. I had a few of those games against the same player the other day and after each match there was a whispered gg and agreement that the system is stupid for allowing nothing but solo queue.

Weesacs

Vara wrote: »

All of the main pvp streamers are saying that magsorc is the strongest class right now... I play magsorc and destroy. Before Greymoor templar was God tier but with the changes to vamp templar lost the ability to deal with ranged attackers. Range is literally the biggest weakness a templar has.

As I stated in another thread, I've noticed that with this patch, the healing reduction has hit classes very hard in BGs which is very noticeable but magsorcs are still top tier.

As you have quoted above, you state that not only are the main streamers saying magsorc is the strongest class right now, you're also highlighting the fact your destroying with the class yourself. To balance things up, and as a magsorc yourself, do you think there should have been a nerf to shields as well to be inline with the healing nerf?

Alternatively as a magsorc, what do you think should happen to magsorcs so its more of a level playing field?

I'm interested in hearing from a magsorc on these issues ☺

wheem_ESO

Weesacs wrote: »

Vara wrote: »

All of the main pvp streamers are saying that magsorc is the strongest class right now... I play magsorc and destroy. Before Greymoor templar was God tier but with the changes to vamp templar lost the ability to deal with ranged attackers. Range is literally the biggest weakness a templar has.

As I stated in another thread, I've noticed that with this patch, the healing reduction has hit classes very hard in BGs which is very noticeable but magsorcs are still top tier.

As you have quoted above, you state that not only are the main streamers saying magsorc is the strongest class right now, you're also highlighting the fact your destroying with the class yourself. To balance things up, and as a magsorc yourself, do you think there should have been a nerf to shields as well to be inline with the healing nerf?

Alternatively as a magsorc, what do you think should happen to magsorcs so its more of a level playing field?

I'm interested in hearing from a magsorc on these issues ☺

Magicka Sorcerers are the only Magicka class which are consistently in the same ballpark as Stamina builds when it comes to effectiveness. Much of the complaining about Magicka Sorcerers from Stam builds - which the overwhelming majority of "big" streamers play (gee, I wonder why?) - comes down to their mobility. After previous whining got shields nerfed so hard, every non-Sorc build dropped them entirely. Even those Sorcerers who do still use shields aren't just standing around while they tank damage all day.

Nerfing shields even further isn't going to ensure that Sorcerers join the other Magicka classes in being clearly inferior to all Stamina builds, since many Mag Sorcs don't even use them at all. I really don't understand this undying hatred some people have for shields, considering how rare (and relatively weak) they actually are.

Weesacs

@wheem_ESO I can't disagree with anything you have stated.

Previous to this patch the only issue I had with them was the fact they hide behind pets (whether their own pets or engine guardian) ... it's difficult to target them on console, especially when it's a dynamic fight with a few enemies around. They take you out while having the 'extra' pet mitigation. I only play magplar so using eclipse or toppling charging on a pet when not intended is very infuriating.

I wish ESO would add a pet target toggle. They made the maw monster set untargetable last patch so they definitely have the means to do so.

Magsorcs know this which is why most of them that I play against use engine guardian.

On PS4 EU in high MMR matches, they are top dog ... this is both as DD and healer. Due to their instant crit heals ... they rack up loads of points. With their execute, they again can rack up loads of points.

The mobility issue I've never had a problem with as i can chase them down with toppling charge.

Regarding shields, the healing nerf is very noticeable ... both with my own healing and my enemies as I am taking them out easier but there is no change to magsorcs therefore as everyone else has got weaker, the bar between magsorcs and the rest has widened. Reducing the effectiveness of shields is a solution being touted around ... whether it would have the desired effects who knows.

I don't know the solution to this issue hence my question however the facts remain and it would be nice if BGs became more of a playing field rather than having one class dominate so much due to thier expansive tool kit.

Hotdog_23

Magsorcs have the total tool kit for BG's. Damage, healing, pet mitigation, mobility and execute from range.

Be safe and have fun

Atherakhia

Mobility isn't the problem.

It's the fact that it's a mobility skill, and a CC (stun), and a damage source. All of this on a kit that actually has insanely high burst, shields, and heals. The problem with Mag Sorc is that it simply has everything a class needs. Any downside the class had is more than compensated for by the fact that it's a ranged class and has a mobility skill that doubles as a primary form of CC.

If the goal is to nerf mag sorcs, the mobility isn't the problem. It's the amount of burst they can do, the relative ease in delivering that burst, and the fact that their skills are overloaded. Spread out the utility some and make them actually make choices when setting up their bars and they'd probably be toned down considerably.

OBJnoob

I don’t think you should dismiss the mobility so fast. You want to spread the utility of their skills out? Read your own post again and tell me you don’t wanna nerf streak just a little bit. I’m not saying I agree. But it makes more sense if you want to nerf streak than if you don’t.

I don’t play magsorc super often and when I do, sure, I use streak to get away sometimes. But I also use it to stun 3 people right before my comet hits. Isn’t that exactly the problem you’re talking about?

Atherakhia

I never said I didn't want to nerf streak. I absolutely do. But I don't think the distance traveled is the problem. As I said, it simply does too much. Mobility AND stun AND damage is simply too much. Remove the stun, make Bolt set targets off-balance instead, and change one of the morphs to a stamina skill instead.

Imryll

Noctus wrote: »

it is pretty obvious by now that some classes are stronger than others gotta wait for devs to fix it and elevate some lower classes.

This reads less like a class issue and more like a stam vs. magicka issue.

technohic

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened in the OP...

dhboy123

Noctus wrote: »

it is pretty obvious by now that some classes are stronger than others gotta wait for devs to fix it and elevate some lower classes.

The dev's don't give a hoot about BG lol, wont see changes for years.

dhboy123

Alomar wrote: »

That's ESO for you. Unlike most mmo's who do gradual small balancing patches every couple of weeks to push a meta in a certain direction ESO does wide-spread huge meta changes patches twice a year that flip flops from one direction to another. Meanwhile, most mmo's prefer to buff counters instead of large nerfs that ruin builds for years....ESO destroys builds/sets/playstyles for years with ridiculously large nerfs. If it's not the cash shop or loot crates it's not a priority.

Another reason why PvP on this game is laughed at so much compared to other MMO's.

The state of PvP in ESO is a laughing stock to everyone.

Xebov

Noctus wrote: »

it is pretty obvious by now that some classes are stronger than others gotta wait for devs to fix it and elevate some lower classes.

Im not agreeing. What is obvious is that some skill choices and combinations are stronger, in some cases way stronger, than others. This naturally falls down on classes, but only counts for players that use said combinations. Everyone else that uses alternative builds is just as weak as others. Whats needed is not buffing classes, its adding more synergies to make alternative builds work and prevent specific builds to shoot out on top.

DracoSaggitaExSole

Trailed wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

The best advice I can give is, if you want real PvP play a video game that has it as a feature and not this one.

Yea its pretty [snip] pathetic. Literally every single character I have is useless regardless of what gear I run or the build it seems so long as its magic and not a templar. Sorc basically has the option to spam shield and streak, if you're not doing that you're dead. Magcro takes far too long to setup in PvP to be of any use. At least Magblade has a stealth they can jump into at will, which has easily become the best option for staying alive from what I have seen. Magden has always been a better support than anything.

Its pretty sad that I am considering quitting a sorc I have played since beta and all of my other characters to play a Templar of sorts just to enjoy this games PvP.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

This is literally why I went to stamsorc, from magsorc. I survive significantly better, with roll dodge and streak. And I can actually stay alive to dish out some damage. But still, there are classes with the right setup become untouchable... And just utterly out of balanced, so I worked hard to build a set, and chose skills to be lethal and stay alive. But look at the YouTube-er Malcom, he can pull it of. He plays godlike tho. It is possible on a magsorc but takes a whole lot more effort i think than a stam leap dk.

Khatou

Why did you add PVP if you're not going to give a *** about it afterwards?

I think that health should be increased or review the resistance to have a game playable like the others or if you're not able to manage this game anymore it might be time to pass the torch made at least for the players who want to enjoy this game with potential to be ruined by you!!

And for once stop mute, it's getting boring, you wanted customers ? listen to them, all they asked for is a playable game especially a game to which you're financially committed !!!

(I wouldn't be frankly surprised if a class action suit would ever be taken against you one day !)

what I said in my right of freedom of speech !

kingsforged

Once we get a system that doesn't think 1 good player and 3 trash players is equal to 4 average players, or 4 v 4 v 3 is fair in TERRITORY CAPTURE game modes, we might be able to start getting somewhere...

They can't even begin to balance class specifics because the very core of the system is broken to begin with.