Crown Crates / Lockboxes may be classified as straight-up gambling this week in England

Coolits

Massively has an article highlighting big changes may be coming to the lockbox classification in England this week if this goes through how do think Zenimax will deal with the new legal requirements?

MasterSpatula

It would be nice to see this blight go away, but I sincerely doubt any such thing will happen.

MagicalLija

probably just up average gems per crate from 3-6 to be like "But they're gaining a currency, so technically they can't be losing"

Zorgon_The_Revenged

This deals with children and PEGI ratings. Just means the rating might have to change and a gambling picture would need to be displayed in addition to the drugs and violence ones etc.

What do the labels mean?

Firstmep

Can't imagine any laws will be passed thay could massively hinder multi-billion dollar/euro/pound companies or industries.
We just don't live in those times anymore.

kinguardian

This game has already a adult rating or do they then have to up it to 21?

DreamsUnderStars

I think in some countries they (games) have to remove gambling or alter it in such a way that it's not gambling. [snip]

[Edited to remove Conspiracy Theory]

bluebird

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I think in some countries they (games) have to remove gambling or alter it in such a way that it's not gambling. [snip]

Or they just disable the purchase of Crates in the regions that outlawed them. If they were outlawed everywhere around the world, then sure maybe companies would think twice about how they try monetizing their games.

But until then, laws like that will only hinder local gamers with very little effect on loot crate systems.

Snipes007

They should remove gambling and just add it all to the store. They are preying on weak minded gamblers with addictions.

idk

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

This deals with children and PEGI ratings. Just means the rating might have to change and a gambling picture would need to be displayed in addition to the drugs and violence ones etc.

What do the labels mean?

It deals with lockboxes. The only reason PEGI as mentioned is because they started listing a warning for all games that sold lockboxes.

Regardless, it is an if to begin with and even if they do something it is still and if they will outright ban the practice.

Amiinidar

Snipes007 wrote: »

They should remove gambling and just add it all to the store. They are preying on weak minded gamblers with addictions.

Seriously? I've heard some interesting descriptions of players - but that's a new one ... LOL

Aptonoth

Coolits wrote: »

Massively has an article highlighting big changes may be coming to the lockbox classification in England this week if this goes through how do think Zenimax will deal with the new legal requirements?

I hope this comes to the us in Canada as well as Amecans to the south. All we can do is keep up the pressure. As more and more countries enact loot box was or bans the companies will have a harder and harder time tying to just putting them in.

ApostateHobo

One can only hope they get banned eventually. Gets really irritating having so much good stuff locked behind them.

DaveMoeDee

ApostateHobo wrote: »

One can only hope they get banned eventually. Gets really irritating having so much good stuff locked behind them.

And that is what it ultimately boils down to. People want it banned for whatever justification so that they can get the stuff they want.

drakthir

bluebird wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I think in some countries they (games) have to remove gambling or alter it in such a way that it's not gambling. [snip]

Or they just disable the purchase of Crates in the regions that outlawed them. If they were outlawed everywhere around the world, then sure maybe companies would think twice about how they try monetizing their games.

But until then, laws like that will only hinder local gamers with very little effect on loot crate systems.

I think they did this in a game i used to paly, might of been neverwinter online, i think it may have been Belgium that banned lootboxes, so Belgians were banned from buying lootboxes lol

Starlock

Coolits wrote: »

Massively has an article highlighting big changes may be coming to the lockbox classification in England this week if this goes through how do think Zenimax will deal with the new legal requirements?

Developers and publishers that practice shady monetization are already backing off gambling in their games somewhat due to public pressure and scrutiny. Unfortunately, all this means is it will be replaced with other techniques that take advantage of how human psychology works to manipulate customers into poor purchasing decisions. Zenimax already tested this with the Murkmire event, where players couldn’t actually finish event rewards without paying real world money. The industry is moving to things like that instead of just honestly and transparently marketing/selling good products.

Danikat

I recommend reading the Guardian article the Massively one was copying from: https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/jun/07/uk-could-class-loot-boxes-as-gambling-to-protect-children

There's a number of mistakes in the Massively article, starting with the fact that there is no such thing as the government of England - it's the UK government (and yes that is an important distinction, especially if you ask Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). Secondly they're starting a review of loot boxes - it's a step in the process but nothing is going to change this week, or even this month.

More importantly, something neither article explains (probably because the Guardian one is written for a UK audience who will already know this) is that online gambling is legal in the UK. There are literal casino sites where you can bet real money on games like blackjack and win, or lose actual money rather than virtual items. Just like a real casino there's also the chance to lose everything, unlike loot boxes where you're guaranteed to get something.

So it's highly unlikely this would make it illegal for games to include loot boxes. At the most extreme they'd have to comply with existing gambling legislation which would mean only selling the game to people 18 and over (that's the legal age for gambling in the UK) and paying for a gambling licence. The only reason games wouldn't be able to do it is if they're unwilling or unable to buy the licence or comply with the requirements.

Since ESO is already rated 18 in the UK and age ratings on games are already legally enforced over here it's highly unlikely it would have any impact on this game. Unlike some games it's literally impossible to sell items you get from crown crates. It's not just against ESO's rules and only happens through (already illegal) 3rd party sites, it's impossible - once an item is in your collections you can't remove it. So there's no concerns that players are actually making money from crates. It might add another reason for the existing 18+ rating (one of the warnings PEGI can include is that the game teaches the mechanics of gambling even if you can't win or lose money playing it) but that wouldn't change anything.

I don't like loot boxes and I think it's good that more governments are starting to look seriously at their impact, but I don't think this is going to have any impact on ESO.

VaranisArano

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

ApostateHobo wrote: »

One can only hope they get banned eventually. Gets really irritating having so much good stuff locked behind them.

And that is what it ultimately boils down to. People want it banned for whatever justification so that they can get the stuff they want.

I want lootboxes removed so that I can buy the stuff I want, as opposed to buying a chance at what I want.

That's not why they'll be banned/altered, of course. The law doesn't really care about my purchasing preferences. The law cares about whether those crates are gambling or mimic gambling sufficiently to come under similar regulations to gambling, which we enforce because of its effects on people and the need for honesty on the part of the company/casino running the gambling operations.

Realistically, I'm not going to get to buy the stuff I want. ZOS will comply with the new regulations and continue trying to sell me a chance at the item I want instead. (And I will keep not buying their stupid Crown Crates.)

dhboy123

The amount of legislation this has to go through before being approved will mean it won't be active for at least a year or two.

what_the

It's a good thing buying the crates in ESO isn't gambling.....
The crates are like the prizes in gumball machines, you put in some money and you get a prize...
I don't think anyone is gonna outlaw gumball machines any time soon, or arrest little kids for under-age gambling...

Aptonoth

what_the wrote: »

It's a good thing buying the crates in ESO isn't gambling.....
The crates are like the prizes in gumball machines, you put in some money and you get a prize...
I don't think anyone is gonna outlaw gumball machines any time soon, or arrest little kids for under-age gambling...

*insert 2 cents shill money* Next your going to tell us they aren’t random mechanics but surprise mechanics lol.

dhboy123

what_the wrote: »

It's a good thing buying the crates in ESO isn't gambling.....
The crates are like the prizes in gumball machines, you put in some money and you get a prize...
I don't think anyone is gonna outlaw gumball machines any time soon, or arrest little kids for under-age gambling...

What?

That is the worst analogy I have ever heard of and is totally incorrect. I'm not sure about you but I don't see kids spending hundreds of pounds to get that 1 rare gumball out of the 500 in there.