Constellations

Eporem

What are the origins of these - I read somewhere that they are the remnants of the twelve worlds before the creation of Nirn -- would anyone know more lore of these?

Foefaller

In a way, they just... are.

I don't recall any bit of lore, at least until the Craglorn quests, that ever suggested where the constellations themsleves came from, and even with Craglorn there are enough gaps IMO that it doesn't fully explain what they are and came from either. At best the only thing it can confirm is how some people co-opted them for *reasons.* (considering only the people of Craglorn seemed to notice the constellations going missing, strongly suspect it was a case of co-opting.)

The common theory for their power, however, is that the stars are holes in Oblivion to the realm of Aetherius, created by the Magna-Ge when they fled Nirn. Though the Yokudans say the stars were placed there by Ruptga, or Tall Papa, to guide the spirits to the Far Shores. (I do have a theory on how they could be both technically true though.) Whatever the case, their origins give them power, and the ones that make up the constellations are connected in some way that amplifies that.

In terms of Tamriel Astrology, you have Three Guardian signs, Nine Charges, and the Serpent. The Warrior is the guardian of the Steed, Lady and Lord. The Thief is the guardian of the Lover, Tower and Shadow. The Mage is the guardian of the Apprentice, Atronach (sometimes also called the Golem) and Ritual. Each of the guardians and charges are assigned a month, and being born that month usually meant you were born under that sign. The Serpent, however, moves through the skies in a way the other stars don't, and sometimes "threatens" the charges. One is born under the sign of the Serpent if they were born when the Serpent was threatening the sign of that month.

...and the importance of what sign you were born under wasn't just for your horoscope. Until Skyrim and ESO, what sign your character was born under translated into attributes, and sometimes supernatural abilities, like being able to open almost any lock once per day (Tower) or being able to absorb Magicka from spells and having a larger natural pool, but unable to recover your magicka naturally (Atronach). One of the reasons Shadowscales are so sneaky, after all, is that many born under the Shadow sign often possess the limited power to turn themselves invisible (or at least the PC of Morrowind and Oblivion, if that was your sign)

The UESP lore page for Astronomy is a good starting point if you want to know more.

Aigym_Hlervu

Foefaller wrote: »

The common theory for their power, however, is that the stars are holes in Oblivion to the realm of Aetherius, created by the Magna-Ge when they fled Nirn. Though the Yokudans say the stars were placed there by Ruptga, or Tall Papa, to guide the spirits to the Far Shores. (I do have a theory on how they could be both technically true though.) Whatever the case, their origins give them power, and the ones that make up the constellations are connected in some way that amplifies that. In terms of Tamriel Astrology ...

This is how it should have been said in a parallel discussion, Foefaller! It turns out you understood me pretty well there, you old gagger . Made me write so much there, so much time wasted for nothing.. My hat is off to you regarding this post.

Eporem

Thank you @Foefaller I have researched a bit using UESP in this search as well but as yet have not come across how the Constellation's came to be other than that they were the remnants of the twelve worlds before the creation of Nirn so was hoping ones here would know more of this.

What I have found so far is that the Nedes were obsessed with the constellations; a book on how the Yokudans chased the stars; and writings of an ancient Yokudan legend of a warrior hero of the Dawn Era who travelled through the zodiac. So it seems somehow that the Yokudans would know more of these Constellations and how they came to be:)

I have also come across ones saying the Constellations are not connected to the Magna-Ge or part of the Magna-Ge so was wondering if you would mind sharing what your theory was.

edit: maybe scrying in Craglorn will reveal more:)

Foefaller

Eporem wrote: »

Thank you Foefaller I have researched a bit using UESP in this search as well but as yet have not come across how the Constellation's came to be other than that they were the remnants of the twelve worlds before the creation of Nirn so was hoping ones here would know more of this.

What I have found so far is that the Nedes were obsessed with the constellations; a book on how the Yokudans chased the stars; and writings of an ancient Yokudan legend of a warrior hero of the Dawn Era who travelled through the zodiac. So it seems somehow that the Yokudans would know more of these Constellations and how they came to be:)

I have also come across ones saying the Constellations are not connected to the Magna-Ge or part of the Magna-Ge so was wondering if you would mind sharing what your theory was.

edit: maybe scrying in Craglorn will reveal more:)

The Yokudan tale says that the stars are to guide spirits on the Walkabout to the Far Shores, but it doesn't say *how.*

The common idea is the way mortals use stars as guides, as signs and points they can use to help align themselves towards where they wish the wish to go.

...but what if they aren't beacons to travel by, but actually beacons to travel to? The direction one must move if they wish to avoid the hunger of Satakal? The same tale also says it is "too far to jump into" the Far Shores from the mortal world, and those stars are indeed very high up there...

Anyway, I thought it was a nice interpretation of things that would make both the Yokudan explanation of the stars and the Tamrielic one both be true without nessisary conflicting with each. The only slip up is if the stars became visible before or after the spirits/Magna-Ge travelled through them, and considering we're talking about the Dawn Era, i.e. before time as we know it, "Yes" could possibly be a valid answer, rather than just a cheeky one.

EDIT: About the Yokudan Warrior and the zodiac... the Warrior, whom you fight in one of the Craglorn trials, is apparently a Sword Saint based on his abilities...

But yeah, my #1 Places I hope the next story chapter takes us is back to Hammerfell for more Redguard/Yokudan lore.

Eporem

Something else of this...

The constellations are talked about by Lawrence Schick in this video at about 37:10 into it. The question asked referred to them as Foreign Gods, and Lawrence Schick described them or the concept of them as a type of Memory Device.

Eporem

Somethings else read of this:

Planet

The planet known as Arkay (sometimes called RKHET[10] or the Eye of the Thief)[UOL 1] is one of the Dominion Planets in the skies of Mundus,[UOL 1] and according to the Warrior-Poet, Vivec, it is one of the eight known worlds.[10] Arkay marks the eye of the Thief constellation. The planet is simultaneously Arkay and the plane of Arkay, just like the other planets and their eponymous patrons.[UOL 1]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Arkay

Planet

The planet known as Akatosh (sometimes called AKHAT[17] or the Eye of the Warrior)[UOL 1] is one of the Dominion Planets found in the skies of Mundus,[UOL 1] and according to the Warrior-Poet, Vivec, is one of the eight known worlds.[17] There is no known satellites orbiting around it,[18] but it marks the eye of the warrior constellation. The planet is simultaneously Akatosh and the plane of Akatosh, just like the other planets and their eponymous deities.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Akatosh#Planet

Eporem

How Arana of the Reach perceives constellations - sky tales etched in metal that are Guardians of the Reach

Mage Constellation - As a Witch
"The Witch shines her light on covens that protect the Reach from outsiders and others who mean to do Reachfolk harm. Her good eye sees through everything - rock, water, and flesh - to find the hard truths. And when she speaks, she never lies."

Warrior Constellation: As a Headsman
"He carries an axe, doesn't he? The Headsman stands for swift ends and payment in kind. He delivers justice and punishment in equal measure."

Thief Constellation: As a Hunter
"The Hunter is the wiliest of the sky tales. Clever as an old fox and swift as a young one. She watches the Snake in the Stars, finding it no matter where it slithers. She teaches us to keep our feet quiet and our kills as silent as the night."

Serpent Constellation: As a Corrupter
"The Snake in the Stars is the Corrupter, the Enemy. If permitted, it would consume the Lesser Stars without hesitation. Luckily, the Guardians - the Headsman, the Witch, and the Hunter - stand strong and defend the Lesser Stars."


So from these quotes - Arana's words, a wonder why she sees the Mage, the Witch, as having only one good eye.

Edit: Could Arana be referring to a Third Eye when she mentions this one good eye - Azurah's third eye?