PC setup needed to achieve my target level of performance?

Recapitated

I'm currently playing on a 2014 15" Macbook, and I want to replace it, but I don't know what hardware will meet my criteria.

Maybe the best thing to do is tell me about thresholds I have to pass given my constraints: to achieve my desired performance, my CPU needs to be at least as good as [some CPU model], my GPU needs to be at least as good as [some GPU model], etc. That way, I can better narrow my search since it's not hard to find comparisons for these parts. I was hoping to list some sample builds close to my budget from newegg but I don't even know where to start with that, so this approach seems like the next best thing.

I have time to fish around for parts or deals, not a ton of money though (I'm aiming for $600 CAD). I'm open to buying refurbished or even putting something together myself if it buys me performance.

Apologies if this is the wrong section and thank you in advance for your help.

---

What I'm looking for in my next machine:

• OS: It doesn't need to be a Mac. Ideally I would install Ubuntu but I imagine that means fewer and less reliable games so I imagine it's Windows or nothing.
• Laptop?: Not unless it helps.
• Target graphics quality: I'm not really concerned about how good the game looks. But I do want performance to the extent that it can be separated from graphics quality.
  To illustrate, eliminating stutters looks better, but more importantly it helps my visual feedback significantly. But OTOH if something doesn't help me grasp what's happening on my screen and strictly looks pretty then I don't care about it: I imagine anti-aliasing falls under that category. Past a certain point, view distance adds more to immersion than it does to situational awareness, and at that point I don't care about it anymore. I could live with having no less than 30FPS.
  It would be super nice to be able to stream or record my screen while playing. Right now that's not possible without torpedoing my performance. But I'll live without it if I have to.
• Storage: I want enough space to install ESO and the PTS and have room for a few more games. I reckon 750GB is enough room to maneuver. I don't know if SSD matters to gameplay.
• Display:
  - I don't know how much refresh rates really matter. Do they just set the cap for your FPS?
  - Screen size is a dicey question. I'm near-sighted even in my good eye, so I find myself leaning forward quite a bit as is. I can read this text perfectly from 20 inches away but it's already quite blurry when i move back 4 inches. For that reason I think the details on a large screen that has to be placed further away than 20" to fit in my field of vision all at once would just be wasted on my eyesight. I sometimes struggle to take in everything that is happening on the screen at once, e.g. keeping an eye on mechs while monitoring buff timers or minimap. In my mind that argues in favour of a smaller screen too.
  - I would like a second screen so I don't have to tab out for Discord or maps, probably a cheap used one.
• Other uses: I will have Discord and Chrome running in the background and that's it. My mac is fine for anything else.
• Other peripherals: Don't worry about that.

---

Current specs:

RAM: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770HQ CPU @ 2.20GHz
[s]HDD[/s] SSD: 250GB

How that's treating me right now: It's fine for lots of content but it's pretty painful in resource-intensive cases. I barely break 30FPS in low-load areas with stutters when I turn around. In battlegrounds and trials I get significant stutters, enemies and players loading slowly when I exit the portal in Cloudrest. I have every graphics setting turned as low as possible. I don't know what it is with Sanctum Ophidia but I've had it happen that I had 3fps in there (as recently as directly after Greymoor dropped: AOEs invisible, most enemies invisible).

Path

I have a 5 year old desktop I configured from Digital Storm.

Total cost, no peripherals, around 2k.
Upgraded the GPU 2 years ago.
Still runs amazing. I max everything. (I do not PvP) No problem with FPS.

Great company. It seems you have the knowledge to configure to your needs.

I also have an Alienware curved monitor with G-Sync. Stunning.
Can recommend the Corsair sound dampening case.
Did go for liquid cooling.

Major_Lag

Recapitated wrote: »

I don't know if SSD matters to gameplay.

It does, but for ESO it doesn't make a difference which type of SSD is used.

I have ESO installed on a very fast NVMe SSD and I still have performance issues, even though the SSD is utilized at well below capacity. Something else is getting bottlenecked.

risiblewilbury

There's a big jump in getting a 120hz monitor, but in your price range you're probably going for a 60hz monitor.

I can't say much for specific components right now, but some general advice is to get an ssd (~250gb), as you can always add in a hdd later on when you have a little more money, and need a little more space.

Also, there are lots of good system builds and guides on pcpartpicker (you can filter them by total price), they also check the prices of components, so I'd recommend looking at some builds on there. Good luck with your search!

Recapitated

Path wrote: »

I have a 5 year old desktop I configured from Digital Storm.

They have options around 1k CAD, which is expensive for me but doable with a financing plan:

AMD Ryzen 5 3400G
Radeon RX Vega 11
8GB DDR4 Memory
2TB 7200RPM Storage
Windows 10

Anyone know if that overshoots my needs by a lot?

TheValkyn

A more robust pc does not mean better performance with this game.

Ryzen 9 3950x
64gb RAM 3600mhz
Rtx2070 super 8gb
1tb Samsung SSD

This game runs like hot garbage.
Every other game in ultra with ease at high FPS.

Recapitated

TheValkyn wrote: »

A more robust pc does not mean better performance with this game.

Ryzen 9 3950x
64gb RAM 3600mhz
Rtx2070 super 8gb
1tb Samsung SSD

This game runs like hot garbage.
Every other game in ultra with ease at high FPS.

That's disappointing but not entirely surprising. Maybe I can better predict my performance by going with the recommended specs?

Operating System: Windows 7 64-bit
Processor: Intel® Core i5 2300 or AMD FX4350
System RAM: 8GB
Hard Disk Space: 85GB free HDD space
GPU: Direct X 11.0 compliant video card with 2GB RAM (NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 750 or AMD Radeon™ HD 7850) or higher
Sound: DirectX compatible sound card
Internet: Internet Broadband Connection

I'm trying to figure out how much it would cost to get as close as possible to that given that this processor isn't really available anymore. Still, I don't even know where my desired performance ranks compared to what that exact setup would yield.

Hurbster

I have literally just built a new pc this week. The game runs fine, I need to upgrade my monitor next (probably a Black Friday job). There are certain bottlenecks there that should not be there but all in all, it does run smoother in comparison with my old potato.

But not in PvP. And it can't kill the unkillable Draugr for me either, which makes me sad.

If anyone wants the spec it is as follows. I'd say it's mid-range. I bought because I have my doubts that my old PC could play Cyberpunk or Bloodlines 2 at all.

AMD Ryzen 3600 CPU
MSI B450 Tomahawk Max motherboard (was going to wait for the 550s but AMD now says the 400 series board will be compatible with the new chipset).
EVGA Nvidia RTX 2060
16GB Ram
The boot drive is 500gb nvme drive, there is also a 1TB SSD for games and a 2TB HDD for graphics files and whatnot for work.

I'd say the biggest difference for an older computer would be installing ESO on an SDD drive.

I will say ESO does not run as well as it should, not nearly as well. Even with the appalling draw distance.

Recapitated

Alright, just to see what I could put together under $600 USD I'm looking at this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-9100F 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($74.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock B365M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 CL16 Memory ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: PNY CS900 240 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($30.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GT 710 2 GB Video Card ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Best Buy)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 500 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($52.99 @ B&H)
Total: $453.92 or just above $600 CAD not counting Windows, a keyboard and a monitor.

CPU: My understanding is ESO is CPU-hungry and tends to overwhelm individual cores. This CPU looks like it has good single-thread headroom and it's as cheap as you can get, very far below the best-fit line. Of course the game is being optimized, so this may be obsolete information.
CPU Cooler: I don't really remember why I chose this, probably well and thoroughly rated + cheap.
Mobo: Has the essentials, cheap.
Memory: I could get away with 12GB if it were cheaper, but it doesn't seem to be.
SSD: Cheap, bare minimum size. Supposedly it doesn't matter which one I use?
Video card: very cheap and has the 2GB recommended. Probably skimping here, maybe I'm better off paying another $40 for a 1030.
Case: Well rated, not too expensive. Maybe I'm wasting money here. I've never built a PC so if spending a little more means I can put everything together without tearing my hair out that's worth paying for.
Power supply: I know you're not supposed to skimp on this but it's well rated.

Ri_Khan

My 2 cents... don't go with an SSD any smaller than 500GB or a GPU with less than 4GB vram.

Banana

I'd wait until later in the year when the next gen stuff starts showing up

Hurbster

And due to the world situation, some parts are either hard to get hold of now or at a premium.

twev

Just as a data-point to consider:

I watch streaming content creators (like Fengrush) who have seriously decent machines to play on and blazing fast network connections, and you can see them struggling with the same issues of the bars not swapping in combat, and/or skills not firing even after multiple button presses.

My point is that a really good/fast/expensive machine is no guarantee that the game will play more smoothly than a 'normal' hardware configuration when the servers are slammed.

You can only do so much on your end, and then just hope for the best.

TheValkyn

Recapitated wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

A more robust pc does not mean better performance with this game.

Ryzen 9 3950x
64gb RAM 3600mhz
Rtx2070 super 8gb
1tb Samsung SSD

This game runs like hot garbage.
Every other game in ultra with ease at high FPS.

That's disappointing but not entirely surprising. Maybe I can better predict my performance by going with the recommended specs?

Operating System: Windows 7 64-bit
Processor: Intel® Core i5 2300 or AMD FX4350
System RAM: 8GB
Hard Disk Space: 85GB free HDD space
GPU: Direct X 11.0 compliant video card with 2GB RAM (NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 750 or AMD Radeon™ HD 7850) or higher
Sound: DirectX compatible sound card
Internet: Internet Broadband Connection

I'm trying to figure out how much it would cost to get as close as possible to that given that this processor isn't really available anymore. Still, I don't even know where my desired performance ranks compared to what that exact setup would yield.

@Recapitated You realize windows 7 isn’t even a supported OS anymore? Those recommended specs were probably from launch.

Recapitated

TheValkyn wrote: »

@Recapitated You realize windows 7 isn’t even a supported OS anymore? Those recommended specs were probably from launch.

They're obviously old, the processor is from 2011. I just figured if ZOS recommends a particular setup, maybe the game would run well if you use something as close as possible.

twev wrote: »

Just as a data-point to consider:

I watch streaming content creators (like Fengrush) who have seriously decent machines to play on and blazing fast network connections, and you can see them struggling with the same issues of the bars not swapping in combat, and/or skills not firing even after multiple button presses.

My point is that a really good/fast/expensive machine is no guarantee that the game will play more smoothly than a 'normal' hardware configuration when the servers are slammed.

You can only do so much on your end, and then just hope for the best.

Yeah I don't ever expect the game to run perfectly. I actually posted this after watching a streaming video and finding it so much smoother than my experience. My guildmates also don't seem to struggle as much as me. Seems like lag is ZOS and fps is largely your machine, especially when other people are fine?

mavfin

My 2 year old machine with a GTX 1070 GPU, a 6-core i7 at 3.2 GHz, 32 GB RAM, and an SSD for OS, and a 2 TB HD for the apps/games runs this game very well.

Not sure why people think it takes all the stuff written down here.

I don't even run the game from the SSD, just the OS/drivers.

silvereyes

Recapitated wrote: »

Seems like lag is ZOS and fps is largely your machine, especially when other people are fine?

Mostly that seems true in my experience. When lag and dysyncs aren't mucking things up, I have noticed a marked improvement in FPS lately.

Unfortunately, the FPS isn't really consistent. It dips and stutters pretty frequently, even on a high end enthusiast rig from a couple years ago.

And of course, there's the aforementioned skills not firing and bar swaps not working, which seriously jeopardize the safety of any nearby hardware.

Lysette

2GB vram is a bit low nowadays - you will have to downgrade a lot of games to medium or low graphics with it - better go for 3 or 4GB vram - it will make your gaming experience so much better.

ItsJustHashtag

Nothing matters, don’t waste time or money on it.

I have google fiber, 8700k, 2080ti, 32gigs of ram, the game saved in m2 and it doesn’t help.

PzTnT

Recapitated wrote: »

Alright, just to see what I could put together under $600 USD I'm looking at this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-9100F 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($74.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock B365M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 CL16 Memory ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: PNY CS900 240 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($30.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GT 710 2 GB Video Card ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Best Buy)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 500 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($52.99 @ B&H)
Total: $453.92 or just above $600 CAD not counting Windows, a keyboard and a monitor.

CPU: My understanding is ESO is CPU-hungry and tends to overwhelm individual cores. This CPU looks like it has good single-thread headroom and it's as cheap as you can get, very far below the best-fit line. Of course the game is being optimized, so this may be obsolete information.
CPU Cooler: I don't really remember why I chose this, probably well and thoroughly rated + cheap.
Mobo: Has the essentials, cheap.
Memory: I could get away with 12GB if it were cheaper, but it doesn't seem to be.
SSD: Cheap, bare minimum size. Supposedly it doesn't matter which one I use?
Video card: very cheap and has the 2GB recommended. Probably skimping here, maybe I'm better off paying another $40 for a 1030.
Case: Well rated, not too expensive. Maybe I'm wasting money here. I've never built a PC so if spending a little more means I can put everything together without tearing my hair out that's worth paying for.
Power supply: I know you're not supposed to skimp on this but it's well rated.

Off hand you may want to go with something like an AMD Ryzen 3 or 5 of the 3xxx series. The 3xxxG ones have onboard graphics, but since you are getting a proper GPU you can save a bit by skipping that. The nvidia gt710 is basically the cheapest of the cheap and has way crappier performance than even an integrated one (The ryzen 5 3400G has an integrated GPU with about 3x-4x the performance of the gt710). For proper gaming i would recommend nothing weaker than a gtx 1050. But if you want to skimp on that ill recommend you get something with a ryzen 5 3400G and skip the dedicated GPU entirely for now as you can easily add one later.

PzTnT

I put together a list here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wVpfZf
More expensive but you can cheap out a bit on the power supply and SSD tho i wouldnt recommend it.

gatekeeper13

For this specific game, what you need is a cpu that has strong single-threading performance. It's what matters most the most. Game code is very badly written and you may have a 1080 Ti and still notice framedrops and stuttering. They said they added multi-threading to the client but it's badly optimized and still runs like crap.

But do not ever build a pc around a specific game.

Recapitated

Alright, before I dug into this further I tried a Windows partition with Boot Camp. Not super relevant but results for posterity:

Contrary to what some users report, I didn't see any improvement in gameplay, and the more things I fiddled with the worse it got -- eventually I didn't top 20fps. However, it seems while my iGPU was mostly OK running ESO on the Mac OS side while the CPUs were all pretty close to 80%, on Windows the Task Manager (or Resource monitor I don't remember) showed the CPU cores were all comfortable but the "3D" component of the iGPU was at 99% as soon as I got to the login screen (not character selection: before that). To test this again I'd have to reinstall ESO, not sure that I want to do that on this device again.

tl;dr I don't think I have much choice.

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

But do not ever build a pc around a specific game.

I get the intuition here I think -- you're overfitting to one particular set of resource requirements, which means your build will not be very good at running anything else compared to other options at the same price point. But I really don't run anything else. I didn't play any resource-intensive games before ESO and it's all I've done for the past two years. I can live with low graphics settings for solo games if it turns out I want to play Skyrim and the performance isn't great. Am I underthinking this?

PzTnT wrote: »

I put together a list here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wVpfZf
More expensive but you can cheap out a bit on the power supply and SSD tho i wouldnt recommend it.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I've got two questions. First, I'm concerned about the compatibility warning that shows up:

Warning!Some AMD B450 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Picasso CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions.

Second, as I understand it the onboard graphics for the 3400G are about as powerful as a GT1030. The i3-9100F is cheap enough that I'd be able to get that card at no additional expense, compared to getting the 3400G. The i3-9100F seems better gpu aside, so what's the reason to go amd instead?

TineaCruris

You do not need to build a special computer for ESO. ESO's performance is server side, you don't need much at all on your side....at least not by today's standards. A decent video card is the biggest consideration for ESO, and if you have a screaming good one like my geforce RTX 2080Ti, you have to turn your graphics settings down to play or you get even more lag from the server.

RefLiberty

TheValkyn wrote: »

A more robust pc does not mean better performance with this game.

Ryzen 9 3950x
64gb RAM 3600mhz
Rtx2070 super 8gb
1tb Samsung SSD

This game runs like hot garbage.
Every other game in ultra with ease at high FPS.

I completely agree with post.

This is the right answer for OP

Bustincapps

You mentioned games twice in your OP under storage and OS. What other games will you be playing and what future games will you be interested in playing?

I understand budget is a constraint but I would recommend digging around and looking at the hardware requirements/recommendations for current and future game titles you plan on enjoying.

You can also try using Google Stadia game streaming if you have a solid internet service. Right now you can get stadia pro FREE for 2 months where you can claim and keep ESO and a few other titles. You can link your ZOS account to stadia and play with all of your DLC etc. After the 2 month trial is over you keep all of the games you have claimed for free and can continue playing at 1080p instead of 4k. Stadia ESO is capped at 30FPS however.

Using stadia may buy you extra time to get your finances in order and buy a respectable gaming machine for other games aside from just ESO. IMO it would be foolish to build solely for playing ESO and not consider the other games it sounds like you plan on enjoying.

Recapitated

Bustincapps wrote: »

Using stadia may buy you extra time to get your finances in order and buy a respectable gaming machine for other games aside from just ESO. IMO it would be foolish to build solely for playing ESO and not consider the other games it sounds like you plan on enjoying.

That's a good call. I thought about it some more and realized I've played ESO exclusively over the past two years only because there's not much of a Mac competitor. Once I have Windows there will definitely be times where I become tired of bugs, combat balance and lag, so I should keep my options open.

NocturnalSonata

Recapitated wrote: »

Second, as I understand it the onboard graphics for the 3400G are about as powerful as a GT1030. The i3-9100F is cheap enough that I'd be able to get that card at no additional expense, compared to getting the 3400G. The i3-9100F seems better gpu aside, so what's the reason to go amd instead?

As far as I am aware the 3400G has overclocking potential both for the agpu and cpu, so that is something to take in, also the 3400g benchmark beats the 9100f to my knowledge, unless i am mixing something up.

That said - my honest advice is wait and save more money... I can in no way recommend a 1030 graphics cardd for anything tbh, as it is an utter waste of money per performance. And the 3400g while being a real buget gaming build, is lacking considerably compared to even something like a 1050ti or amd equivalent when paired with a cpu, which might put you over budget, but in the long run it is 100% worth it. Building for bare minimum specs is literally accepting obsolescence, and while eso has very low requirements, its optimization is pure garbage, so is eriously doubt bare min specs are actually going to give you a rewarding gaming experience.

Recapitated

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

As far as I am aware the 3400G has overclocking potential both for the agpu and cpu, so that is something to take in, also the 3400g benchmark beats the 9100f to my knowledge, unless i am mixing something up.

That said - my honest advice is wait and save more money... I can in no way recommend a 1030 graphics cardd for anything tbh, as it is an utter waste of money per performance. And the 3400g while being a real buget gaming build, is lacking considerably compared to even something like a 1050ti or amd equivalent when paired with a cpu, which might put you over budget, but in the long run it is 100% worth it. Building for bare minimum specs is literally accepting obsolescence, and while eso has very low requirements, its optimization is pure garbage, so is eriously doubt bare min specs are actually going to give you a rewarding gaming experience.

I've continued doing research. (Stadia would blow the roof off my ISP's contract so figuring out what I want to play ahead of time is kind of out of the question. It plays surprisingly well though.)

The i3-9100F has better single-thread performance but given that I might not just be playing ESO I won't focus on that so much.

At this stage I'm debating the following options, not all at the same price point:

- AMD 3200G ----------------------- $140 CAD
- AMD 3400G ----------------------- $220 CAD
- AMD 2600 + GTX 1650 Super --- $440 CAD

Comparison of the three options

Starting from the bottom: This is about the most I'd spend. The GPU is the best in its price tier and should get me solid performance for most games at the quality I want to run the game at. Open to opinions on the CPU -- 3600 is not much more pricy.

The other two options are significantly less expensive, but for the price they're decent. The question at this stage is: what else will I be playing? If I only wind up playing ESO -- maybe I won't have much time for gaming come the fall and winter -- I can probably get away the 3400G, maybe even just the 3200G; if I shell out for the more expensive build that will wind up being a waste of $220-300.

OTOH if I wind up playing more resource-hungry games the 3X00G options will be strained. To some extent I can live with that if it's not a competitive game. But even if I can't, I'm not locked into keeping those CPUs. I could always just sell the CPU and take a small loss: even if I have to discount the cpu 50% if I resell it I'm losing $70-110, and while I wait to save up for a better build I won't be pulling my hair out when playing ESO. So this seems like the less risky option, am I making sense?

burglar

PS5

Bustincapps

I would recommend building a machine that will last you 3-5 years if not more. The 3600 would make a solid foundation for a gaming rig. The GTX 1650 would allow you to run med-high gfx settings @ 1080p in most modern games (it performs similar to 970 and a 1060 for reference).

Upgrading the cpu in a few years is never really worth doing IMO. In 2-3 years there will be new socket types for mother boards and probably DDR5 RAM requiring the purchase of 3 main components unless you are comfortable with a used CPU. The ryzen 5 3600 is much faster than previous gen models and is 6c/12t vs 4c/8t of the APUs.

Get a good CPU that has wiggle room and you can upgrade the GPU in a few years to keep the computer gaming ready without having to almost completely rebuild.

I guess the questions you need to ask yourself is if you will be playing other games next year if not this fall/winter?

Is it worth buying an entry level CPU now and reselling in hopes of buying a used 3600/3700 later or possibly an upcoming 4xxx if your motherboard is at least a b450/470 - 550/570 chipset?