Meridia's Future Plans

AVaelham

(Warning: Summerset, Southern Elsweyr and Greymoor Spoilers)

As you may know from the Summerset Chapter,

Darien

sacrificed himself and was transported back to the Colored Rooms where he wrote a final letter, warning that Meridia is a deceiver and is not to be trusted. Later, we discover in Southern Elsweyr that she is searching for a new knight who can serve her.

In Greymoor, she

abandons her followers after a strange storm that has devastated the area around Kilkreath Temple, leaving them to die and be corrupted by the vampires

.

What's up with Meridia and her plans? Do you think we'll find out soon? I have a feeling she'll play the role of the main villain in a future DLC. She's probably one the most interesting Daedric Princes to me, because she pictures herself as this benevolence force who fights against the undead, when she's much more malevolent in reality.

Eporem

If it is true she once was a Magne-Ge, cast out of Aetherius then I think all she does or her ultimate goal is retaliation on those that cast her out.

PrayingSeraph

I'm not sure I would call her more malevolent than benevolent, but shes definitely very questionable.I'm fairly certain you are correct on Meridia being built up as a future antagonist. The keep adding inclusions of her to the plot which I *highly* doubt is a coincidence. With the new Meridian posession momento in the goomspire crowncrates, i imagine it will be used later on. Its similiar to Azura's possession momento(but still different enough)

The Elsewyr note mentions shes looking for a knight who wont betray her and help her fix a previous mistake. Perhaps this previous mistake was helping the vestige?

Raisin

I would love for Meridia to play a more antagonistic role in the future, but I'm not sure how to imagine it. Depths of Malatar gives us exactly the kind of Meridia lore I do love to see, but she isn't exactly big on plotting things that need to be stopped. I'm not sure how much of a main villain she could make.


I also personally find that categorizing daedra as malevolent vs benevolent kind of misses the mark. It does sometimes apply to their actions, and it's better than 'good' or 'bad' labels, but it cuts close. Daedra, especially the princes, are very definied by their spheres and nature. I find that their choices and actions are not based on any kind of mortal morality, but rather on fulfillment of themselves and ensuring the presence of their aspects/spheres in existence. The things we associate with Meridia and her actions are very aligned with what most mortals consider to be benefecial for them and in their favor, as well as Nirn's. They are, for the most part, correct in assuming that Meridia's aims and visions generally have a positive influence on them and can be considered morally good from mortal perspective. I'd even go as far as to say that helping mortals and causing them prosperity in some aspects is part of what Meridia is and does, so it is natural for her. All of these are rational assessments of Meridia's influence on Nirn, mortals, etc. , but it doesn't constitute intent. Meridia may value a concept of goodness she herself holds, but it's a very black and white type of thing and it does not make her good or inherently benevolent. She acts for herself, not for us -- there's just a regular overlap of the two categories. All she does is still because of what she wants, achieving her vision, and many of her actions can easily be viewn as immoral from our perspective. For her however, there is no difference in reasoning, intent, morality or benevolence/malevolence with any of the things she does. That distinction only exists in our interpretation of her.
It is very clear that she understands the perception mortals have of her and perpetuates that image, of course. A lot of her power comes from her ability to portray herself as innocent and good-natured. It's easy to say at first glance that this is deceptive -- however, deception also implies that there is a different 'version' of her that would act differently if it wasn't disadvantageous. I think the behavior she puts forth is authentic, rather than a fake persona, which again means that she's just acting within the rules of her nature. I also think the same applies to all of the other princes, including those we would generally consider to be malevolent.

In the end, the reason lore like in Depth of Malatar works so well is because it lets Meridia serve as an antagonist while still maintaining her true nature. While I'm not saying she doesn't plot big bouts of influence on our world, they are usually in response to actions of the other princes. The kind of usual world domination stuff we get clearly isn't her cup of tea. Personally, I'd be happy if we get more DoM and less Helper of Mortals (TM) kind of Meridia content in the future, but I think small bits of this are more realistic.

TL;DR: the adhesive on mortal labels is too weak to stick them on daedric princes. sometimes I read all of King Narilmor's dialogue bits relating to Meridia's terrifying radiance and get all dreamy

Foefaller

Raisin wrote: »

I would love for Meridia to play a more antagonistic role in the future, but I'm not sure how to imagine it. Depths of Malatar gives us exactly the kind of Meridia lore I do love to see, but she isn't exactly big on plotting things that need to be stopped. I'm not sure how much of a main villain she could make.


I also personally find that categorizing daedra as malevolent vs benevolent kind of misses the mark. It does sometimes apply to their actions, and it's better than 'good' or 'bad' labels, but it cuts close. Daedra, especially the princes, are very definied by their spheres and nature. I find that their choices and actions are not based on any kind of mortal morality, but rather on fulfillment of themselves and ensuring the presence of their aspects/spheres in existence. The things we associate with Meridia and her actions are very aligned with what most mortals consider to be benefecial for them and in their favor, as well as Nirn's. They are, for the most part, correct in assuming that Meridia's aims and visions generally have a positive influence on them and can be considered morally good from mortal perspective. I'd even go as far as to say that helping mortals and causing them prosperity in some aspects is part of what Meridia is and does, so it is natural for her. All of these are rational assessments of Meridia's influence on Nirn, mortals, etc. , but it doesn't constitute intent. Meridia may value a concept of goodness she herself holds, but it's a very black and white type of thing and it does not make her good or inherently benevolent. She acts for herself, not for us -- there's just a regular overlap of the two categories. All she does is still because of what she wants, achieving her vision, and many of her actions can easily be viewn as immoral from our perspective. For her however, there is no difference in reasoning, intent, morality or benevolence/malevolence with any of the things she does. That distinction only exists in our interpretation of her.
It is very clear that she understands the perception mortals have of her and perpetuates that image, of course. A lot of her power comes from her ability to portray herself as innocent and good-natured. It's easy to say at first glance that this is deceptive -- however, deception also implies that there is a different 'version' of her that would act differently if it wasn't disadvantageous. I think the behavior she puts forth is authentic, rather than a fake persona, which again means that she's just acting within the rules of her nature. I also think the same applies to all of the other princes, including those we would generally consider to be malevolent.

In the end, the reason lore like in Depth of Malatar works so well is because it lets Meridia serve as an antagonist while still maintaining her true nature. While I'm not saying she doesn't plot big bouts of influence on our world, they are usually in response to actions of the other princes. The kind of usual world domination stuff we get clearly isn't her cup of tea. Personally, I'd be happy if we get more DoM and less Helper of Mortals (TM) kind of Meridia content in the future, but I think small bits of this are more realistic.

TL;DR: the adhesive on mortal labels is too weak to stick them on daedric princes. sometimes I read all of King Narilmor's dialogue bits relating to Meridia's terrifying radiance and get all dreamy

If her being a Magna-Ge who was unable to escape to the Aetherius is true. Then it probably means she holds the same belief that the others supposedly had, that the creation of Nirn and the Mundus was a Mistake.

Depending on why she thinks it was a mistake, she probably has ideas on "fixing" Tamriel that would be horrific to most mortals (the Purified are something that comes to mind.)

PrayingSeraph

Foefaller wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

I would love for Meridia to play a more antagonistic role in the future, but I'm not sure how to imagine it. Depths of Malatar gives us exactly the kind of Meridia lore I do love to see, but she isn't exactly big on plotting things that need to be stopped. I'm not sure how much of a main villain she could make.


I also personally find that categorizing daedra as malevolent vs benevolent kind of misses the mark. It does sometimes apply to their actions, and it's better than 'good' or 'bad' labels, but it cuts close. Daedra, especially the princes, are very definied by their spheres and nature. I find that their choices and actions are not based on any kind of mortal morality, but rather on fulfillment of themselves and ensuring the presence of their aspects/spheres in existence. The things we associate with Meridia and her actions are very aligned with what most mortals consider to be benefecial for them and in their favor, as well as Nirn's. They are, for the most part, correct in assuming that Meridia's aims and visions generally have a positive influence on them and can be considered morally good from mortal perspective. I'd even go as far as to say that helping mortals and causing them prosperity in some aspects is part of what Meridia is and does, so it is natural for her. All of these are rational assessments of Meridia's influence on Nirn, mortals, etc. , but it doesn't constitute intent. Meridia may value a concept of goodness she herself holds, but it's a very black and white type of thing and it does not make her good or inherently benevolent. She acts for herself, not for us -- there's just a regular overlap of the two categories. All she does is still because of what she wants, achieving her vision, and many of her actions can easily be viewn as immoral from our perspective. For her however, there is no difference in reasoning, intent, morality or benevolence/malevolence with any of the things she does. That distinction only exists in our interpretation of her.
It is very clear that she understands the perception mortals have of her and perpetuates that image, of course. A lot of her power comes from her ability to portray herself as innocent and good-natured. It's easy to say at first glance that this is deceptive -- however, deception also implies that there is a different 'version' of her that would act differently if it wasn't disadvantageous. I think the behavior she puts forth is authentic, rather than a fake persona, which again means that she's just acting within the rules of her nature. I also think the same applies to all of the other princes, including those we would generally consider to be malevolent.

In the end, the reason lore like in Depth of Malatar works so well is because it lets Meridia serve as an antagonist while still maintaining her true nature. While I'm not saying she doesn't plot big bouts of influence on our world, they are usually in response to actions of the other princes. The kind of usual world domination stuff we get clearly isn't her cup of tea. Personally, I'd be happy if we get more DoM and less Helper of Mortals (TM) kind of Meridia content in the future, but I think small bits of this are more realistic.

TL;DR: the adhesive on mortal labels is too weak to stick them on daedric princes. sometimes I read all of King Narilmor's dialogue bits relating to Meridia's terrifying radiance and get all dreamy

If her being a Magna-Ge who was unable to escape to the Aetherius is true. Then it probably means she holds the same belief that the others supposedly had, that the creation of Nirn and the Mundus was a Mistake.

Depending on why she thinks it was a mistake, she probably has ideas on "fixing" Tamriel that would be horrific to most mortals (the Purified are something that comes to mind.)

Yeah she was a magna ge, so it would make sense if in a future plot she wants to unmake Nirn as she sees it as a mistake. That would be an interesting plot

Aigym_Hlervu

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

PrayingSeraph

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Yes but Aetherius is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it in certain quests, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false.

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that. Much like in real life, just because one believes or doesn't believe in something, doesn't mean they are correct.

Aigym_Hlervu

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

PrayingSeraph

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

Oh boy. There is literally no point of having lore if you will question every bit of it with obscure "what ifs". We could question oblivion itself. "What if every npc and prince that talked about it was lying?" You are ignoring many pieces of lore from all over the place, give no evidence why we should doubt them and give no evidence to back your own idea that the existence of aetherius is debatable. At this point, the burden of proof is on you.

And I could not tell if you agreed or not, but reality and truth is not based on opinion but rather independent. Be it in game religions or real life ones. The philosophical laws of logic dictate this.

EDIT: Re-reading your comment, I do not know if you are completely serious or role playing, given the statements of believing in the tribunal theology and me believing in the "eight apostasies". If so and you are roleplaying, my apologies. If not, read above

Aigym_Hlervu

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

Oh boy. There is literally no point of having lore if you will question every bit of it with obscure "what ifs". We could question oblivion itself. "What if every npc and prince that talked about it was lying?" You are ignoring many pieces of lore from all over the place, give no evidence why we should doubt them and give no evidence to back your own idea that the existence of aetherius is debatable. At this point, the burden of proof is on you.

And I could not tell if you agreed or not, but reality and truth is not based on opinion but rather independent. Be it in game religions or real life ones. The philosophical laws of logic dictate this.

Ah, that was not the matter of beliefs.. I see you don't understand what I'm trying to tell you completely. Sad.. This is not a "what if" thing and surely is not questioning every bit of the lore - it's basics, something that everyone who played the games, read the books and the dialogues should know! I wonder how did you play Skyrim if even a simple question "Is that really Aetherius?" did not visit your mind as soon as you entered Sovngarde. That should be the first thing you should have asked yourself there, but I guess you were too obsessed (I'm really sorry if that word is rude - I don't mean to offend you in neither of my words, just can't remember a more decent synonim..) with your dragon safari. The philosophical laws of logic should have told you that you might be wrong somewhere in your way of using those concepts you claim to be solid. Just like I was sure the Mantellan Crux in TES II was an Aetherial realm because the respective quest name and the in-game quest journal entry told it to be so. But everyone who was there would confirm that it has nothing equal with the concept of Aetherius those Imperial heresies teach us. I gave you something to stop and check your knowledge, to make you ask questions yourself and answer them yourself, but you want me to write a book of lore since the beginning of TES here ? If you don't want to see something from another perspective, I won't be able to help you understand anything. If I write "arse" on the fence, it is still the fence - not the arse. So, nope, no lore books this time. But you may believe the fence is the arse - this is your right . Believe in what you want, though - it's just a game. But don't make it a propaganda in the lore section, please. New players might read it and think your opinion to be Truth. Ok, calm down, mate, we have no need to quarrel. Let's just stop this pointless discussion here. I wish you to have a good day there!

PrayingSeraph

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

Oh boy. There is literally no point of having lore if you will question every bit of it with obscure "what ifs". We could question oblivion itself. "What if every npc and prince that talked about it was lying?" You are ignoring many pieces of lore from all over the place, give no evidence why we should doubt them and give no evidence to back your own idea that the existence of aetherius is debatable. At this point, the burden of proof is on you.

And I could not tell if you agreed or not, but reality and truth is not based on opinion but rather independent. Be it in game religions or real life ones. The philosophical laws of logic dictate this.

Ah, that was not the matter of beliefs.. I see you don't understand what I'm trying to tell you completely. Sad.. This is not a "what if" thing and surely is not questioning every bit of the lore - it's basics, something that everyone who played the games, read the books and the dialogues should know! I wonder how did you play Skyrim if even a simple question "Is that really Aetherius?" did not visit your mind as soon as you entered Sovngarde. That should be the first thing you should have asked yourself there, but I guess you were too obsessed (I'm really sorry if that word is rude - I don't mean to offend you in neither of my words, just can't remember a more decent synonim..) with your dragon safari. The philosophical laws of logic should have told you that you might be wrong somewhere in your way of using those concepts you claim to be solid. Just like I was sure the Mantellan Crux in TES II was an Aetherial realm because the respective quest name and the in-game quest journal entry told it to be so. But everyone who was there would confirm that it has nothing equal with the concept of Aetherius those Imperial heresies teach us. I gave you something to stop and check your knowledge, to make you ask questions yourself and answer them yourself, but you want me to write a book of lore since the beginning of TES here ? If you don't want to see something from another perspective, I won't be able to help you understand anything. If I write "arse" on the fence, it is still the fence - not the arse. So, nope, no lore books this time. But you may believe the fence is the arse - this is your right . Believe in what you want, though - it's just a game. But don't make it a propaganda in the lore section, please. New players might read it and think your opinion to be Truth. Ok, calm down, mate, we have no need to quarrel. Let's just stop this pointless discussion here. I wish you to have a good day there!

I'm neither obsessed or upset. Ive replied to you a couple times. You are presuming emotion where it doesn't exist, rather baselessly I may add. I was starting to think you were some creative role player on here. I have no qualms with you, but I think you're very much wrong on this. Its not personal at all though. But whatever lol

To answer your question, when everything in the game is saying "this is x", I don't feel the need to question it. Aetherius's existence is generally not a debated topic.

Pointing out that sources from all over the place in the TES games support the existence of Aetherius isn't propaganda. What I am saying here is what you will find on lore sites like UESP. As I said before, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that all the sources of Aetherius are lies and providing evidence it doesn't exist. Here you go

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aetherius

Aigym_Hlervu

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

Oh boy. There is literally no point of having lore if you will question every bit of it with obscure "what ifs". We could question oblivion itself. "What if every npc and prince that talked about it was lying?" You are ignoring many pieces of lore from all over the place, give no evidence why we should doubt them and give no evidence to back your own idea that the existence of aetherius is debatable. At this point, the burden of proof is on you.

And I could not tell if you agreed or not, but reality and truth is not based on opinion but rather independent. Be it in game religions or real life ones. The philosophical laws of logic dictate this.

Ah, that was not the matter of beliefs.. I see you don't understand what I'm trying to tell you completely. Sad.. This is not a "what if" thing and surely is not questioning every bit of the lore - it's basics, something that everyone who played the games, read the books and the dialogues should know! I wonder how did you play Skyrim if even a simple question "Is that really Aetherius?" did not visit your mind as soon as you entered Sovngarde. That should be the first thing you should have asked yourself there, but I guess you were too obsessed (I'm really sorry if that word is rude - I don't mean to offend you in neither of my words, just can't remember a more decent synonim..) with your dragon safari. The philosophical laws of logic should have told you that you might be wrong somewhere in your way of using those concepts you claim to be solid. Just like I was sure the Mantellan Crux in TES II was an Aetherial realm because the respective quest name and the in-game quest journal entry told it to be so. But everyone who was there would confirm that it has nothing equal with the concept of Aetherius those Imperial heresies teach us. I gave you something to stop and check your knowledge, to make you ask questions yourself and answer them yourself, but you want me to write a book of lore since the beginning of TES here ? If you don't want to see something from another perspective, I won't be able to help you understand anything. If I write "arse" on the fence, it is still the fence - not the arse. So, nope, no lore books this time. But you may believe the fence is the arse - this is your right . Believe in what you want, though - it's just a game. But don't make it a propaganda in the lore section, please. New players might read it and think your opinion to be Truth. Ok, calm down, mate, we have no need to quarrel. Let's just stop this pointless discussion here. I wish you to have a good day there!

I'm neither obsessed or upset. Ive replied to you a couple times. You are presuming emotion where it doesn't exist, rather baselessly I may add. I was starting to think you were some creative role player on here. But whatever lol

To answer your question, when everything in the game is saying "this is x", I don't feel the need to question it. Aetherius's existence is generally not a debated topic.

Pointing out that sources from all over the place in the TES games support the existence of Aetherius isn't propaganda. As I said before, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that all the sources of Aetherius are lies and providing evidence it doesn't exist. Here you go

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aetherius

Ok, I'll write another guide. But not here and not now. By the way.
First: I didn't say that Aetherius does not exist at all - I said it does exist, but only in certain in-game teachings. Why should it's existence be debated? When I see someone speaking of the Waiting Door and the otherworld, I simply understand that the speaker is a Dunmer. But when I see someone explaining something using that concept as the ultimate truth reasoning everything, I understand that the speaker is simply ignorant and should learn the lore before propagating his views that stubbornly and teaching others.
Second: the UESP articles are written by people like me, who have been playing TES for decades, who see it's changes and have the whole picture of it's world in mind, who might be wrong at something because of losing some details, not the whole concept. But some of them are written by people like you who read a single book and begin to teach others as if that book (ok, several books), written by some certain authors, is the only truth. Don't believe everything written there - sort the things out and think yourself.
Third: I didn't say that all the sources on Aetherius are lies and "when everything in the game is saying "this is x" you should question it. I meant it vice versa: don't believe only the books written by certain scholars and some single quest journal entries while everything else in the game says the opposite. The concept of Aetherius is complex and it's Imperial edition is not the only existent. Some concepts negate it ultimately and still they do not contradict anything we see in the screen. You've turned it all upside down.. This is indecent, my friend. Bye.

Foefaller

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

Oh boy. There is literally no point of having lore if you will question every bit of it with obscure "what ifs". We could question oblivion itself. "What if every npc and prince that talked about it was lying?" You are ignoring many pieces of lore from all over the place, give no evidence why we should doubt them and give no evidence to back your own idea that the existence of aetherius is debatable. At this point, the burden of proof is on you.

And I could not tell if you agreed or not, but reality and truth is not based on opinion but rather independent. Be it in game religions or real life ones. The philosophical laws of logic dictate this.

Ah, that was not the matter of beliefs.. I see you don't understand what I'm trying to tell you completely. Sad.. This is not a "what if" thing and surely is not questioning every bit of the lore - it's basics, something that everyone who played the games, read the books and the dialogues should know! I wonder how did you play Skyrim if even a simple question "Is that really Aetherius?" did not visit your mind as soon as you entered Sovngarde. That should be the first thing you should have asked yourself there, but I guess you were too obsessed (I'm really sorry if that word is rude - I don't mean to offend you in neither of my words, just can't remember a more decent synonim..) with your dragon safari. The philosophical laws of logic should have told you that you might be wrong somewhere in your way of using those concepts you claim to be solid. Just like I was sure the Mantellan Crux in TES II was an Aetherial realm because the respective quest name and the in-game quest journal entry told it to be so. But everyone who was there would confirm that it has nothing equal with the concept of Aetherius those Imperial heresies teach us. I gave you something to stop and check your knowledge, to make you ask questions yourself and answer them yourself, but you want me to write a book of lore since the beginning of TES here ? If you don't want to see something from another perspective, I won't be able to help you understand anything. If I write "arse" on the fence, it is still the fence - not the arse. So, nope, no lore books this time. But you may believe the fence is the arse - this is your right . Believe in what you want, though - it's just a game. But don't make it a propaganda in the lore section, please. New players might read it and think your opinion to be Truth. Ok, calm down, mate, we have no need to quarrel. Let's just stop this pointless discussion here. I wish you to have a good day there!

You, my friend, need to reread the 36 Sermons if you the Warrior-Poet does not also comfirm the existance of cosmology that the rest of Tamriel adheres to.

PrayingSeraph

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hmm.. I don't say you are wrong in your thoughts, mates, but you speak as if those stories about Magnus, the Magna Ge and the Daedra are true. I just want to remind once more, that all those concepts some of us got used to exist only in some beliefs of the peoples of Tamriel, specifically in the Imperial cults. Aetherius simply does not exist in some beliefs and the devs know it, but some of us still believe that it is something accepted by everyone in Tamriel. Stars made by the Star orphans, the sun as a hole to Aetherius.. Ah.. I suppose I have to write another guide to make all the things clear. Back in my days we had no problem with it.. Ok, before that time, if you wish to understand the nature of the Daedra better, read this UESP article along with the books it references, but change the word "Daedra" to the word "Players", "Aedra" - to the "Developers" and "Tamriel", "mortal world", "Mundus" and etc. - into the "Game" wherever you read it there. Read it using this method as if it's been written from the in-game perspective. It will be much more comprehensive. This game is about us, not the elves, vampires or absolutely alien and incomprehensive Daedra. A single supporting NPC, a fourth corpse over the corner or a simple book label can give us more information then all the main characters all together as it was in the past in TES II, III and etc. The devs of this game rarely speak their plans that directly.

Aetheries is confirmed. The existence of Aetherius is shown and referenced numerous times, to spirits returning to it, to realms of Aetherius like Far Shores and Sovngard being visited.

There's no reason to believe the myths of the magna-ge, magnus or aetherius are false, and Magnus is indeed associated with the sun beyond just mere myth(as seen in Dawnguard DLC of Skyrim)

Any belief system in Tamriel that think Aetherius doesn't exist are wrong on that.

Really? "Shown".. Don't be so sure in what you've been shown or told. Switch on your mind and think! Who told you the Far Shores are located in the so called Aetherius? That Imperial woman who tried to trick the system and kill us there? So were she successful? Or maybe Sovngarde is a part of Aetherius to you? You surely were there - haven't you noticed anything contradicting your knowledge of Aetherius there? Or maybe you tell the faithful Dunmer of your Aetherius? Your Aetherius exists only in the beliefs of the Imperials, Bretons, Nords, Altmer and Khajiit, but not all of them. To all other people it is the same as Sansara to a muslim or a christian IRL - yes, they've heared something of it, but to believe it to be true is heresy. If you don't see the picture in the puzzle that doesn't mean a piece of a puzzle is the whole picture while the rest of the pieces are just unnecessary. I don't know what is more appropriate to say you here: to wish you to learn the lore better or just to let you stick to your in-game beliefs system further on. I suppose it is your faith in the Eight Apostasies, just like I stick to the Tribunal there . Then let us end this pointless talk. Heretic .

Oh boy. There is literally no point of having lore if you will question every bit of it with obscure "what ifs". We could question oblivion itself. "What if every npc and prince that talked about it was lying?" You are ignoring many pieces of lore from all over the place, give no evidence why we should doubt them and give no evidence to back your own idea that the existence of aetherius is debatable. At this point, the burden of proof is on you.

And I could not tell if you agreed or not, but reality and truth is not based on opinion but rather independent. Be it in game religions or real life ones. The philosophical laws of logic dictate this.

Ah, that was not the matter of beliefs.. I see you don't understand what I'm trying to tell you completely. Sad.. This is not a "what if" thing and surely is not questioning every bit of the lore - it's basics, something that everyone who played the games, read the books and the dialogues should know! I wonder how did you play Skyrim if even a simple question "Is that really Aetherius?" did not visit your mind as soon as you entered Sovngarde. That should be the first thing you should have asked yourself there, but I guess you were too obsessed (I'm really sorry if that word is rude - I don't mean to offend you in neither of my words, just can't remember a more decent synonim..) with your dragon safari. The philosophical laws of logic should have told you that you might be wrong somewhere in your way of using those concepts you claim to be solid. Just like I was sure the Mantellan Crux in TES II was an Aetherial realm because the respective quest name and the in-game quest journal entry told it to be so. But everyone who was there would confirm that it has nothing equal with the concept of Aetherius those Imperial heresies teach us. I gave you something to stop and check your knowledge, to make you ask questions yourself and answer them yourself, but you want me to write a book of lore since the beginning of TES here ? If you don't want to see something from another perspective, I won't be able to help you understand anything. If I write "arse" on the fence, it is still the fence - not the arse. So, nope, no lore books this time. But you may believe the fence is the arse - this is your right . Believe in what you want, though - it's just a game. But don't make it a propaganda in the lore section, please. New players might read it and think your opinion to be Truth. Ok, calm down, mate, we have no need to quarrel. Let's just stop this pointless discussion here. I wish you to have a good day there!

I'm neither obsessed or upset. Ive replied to you a couple times. You are presuming emotion where it doesn't exist, rather baselessly I may add. I was starting to think you were some creative role player on here. But whatever lol

To answer your question, when everything in the game is saying "this is x", I don't feel the need to question it. Aetherius's existence is generally not a debated topic.

Pointing out that sources from all over the place in the TES games support the existence of Aetherius isn't propaganda. As I said before, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that all the sources of Aetherius are lies and providing evidence it doesn't exist. Here you go

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aetherius

Ok, I'll write another guide. But not here and not now. By the way.
First: I didn't say that Aetherius does not exist at all - I said it does exist, but only in certain in-game teachings. Why should it's existence be debated? When I see someone speaking of the Waiting Door and the otherworld, I simply understand that the speaker is a Dunmer. But when I see someone explaining something using that concept as the ultimate truth reasoning everything, I understand that the speaker is simply ignorant and should learn the lore before propagating his views that stubbornly and teaching others.
Second: the UESP articles are written by people like me, who have been playing TES for decades, who see it's changes and have the whole picture of it's world in mind, who might be wrong at something because of losing some details, not the whole concept. But some of them are written by people like you who read a single book and begin to teach others as if that book (ok, several books), written by some certain authors, is the only truth. Don't believe everything written there - sort the things out and think yourself.
Third: I didn't say that all the sources on Aetherius are lies and "when everything in the game is saying "this is x" you should question it. I meant it vice versa: don't believe only the books written by certain scholars and some single quest journal entries while everything else in the game says the opposite. The concept of Aetherius is complex and it's Imperial edition is not the only existent. Some concepts negate it ultimately and still they do not contradict anything we see in the screen. You've turned it all upside down.. This is indecent, my friend. Bye.

sigh

Forget the imperial belief crap. We are talking about canon lore here.

1. Either it exists or doesn't exist. It's existence is *not* bound to subjective teachings of the inhabitants of Tamriel.

2. The UESP article literally talks about its existence, its nature, and plenty of sources. The burden of proof is on you to dispute these sources.

3. The game doesn't say the opposite. The game clearly supports the existence of aetherius. You have given no evidence or logical reason to dismiss Aetherius existing or accounts of it. If you played TES for decades you should know this.

LukosCreyden

Meridia is definitely what I would call the "Main Antagonist" of ESO. We'll definitely be getting a story revolving around her in a more direct way at some point. I look forward to it. Also, a fully explorable Colored Rooms would be awesome.

Aigym_Hlervu

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

[Yeah she was a magna ge, so it would make sense if in a future plot she wants to unmake Nirn as she sees it as a mistake. That would be an interesting plot

I won't reply to your insulting texts, @PrayingSeraph, just let's get back to the post it all started. The one I quoted above made me write my very first reply. You say, Meridia was a Magna Ge. The Magna Ge are said to make holes in the Oblivion veil, the stars we see in the night sky. But there is no concept of the Magna Ge in Yokudan religion - from the Yokudan perspective the stars were placed by Ruptga to guide the spirits to the Far Shores. Now, please, tell me what kind of a Magna Ge Meridia was from that Redguard (Yokudan) perspective and what do they understand under that "Magna Ge" concept? Just give me a canon source and if I see the words "Magna Ge", "Star Orphans", "Aetherius" or any such Imperial things along with the name of Ruptga, Satakal and etc. answering my question. I'll acknowledge I was wrong. If there's no source provided, I wait the same from you. I need just a source, not your explanations that the concepts we speak about has been existing "as is" for eternity irrespectively of any religious views. Thank you in advance.

RaddlemanNumber7

I think the Greymoor content relating to Kilkreath temple is simply a prequel to what happens in TES V. It sets up the start state of Kilkreath temple in TES V - sealed and long-abandoned, with its main relic carried away and then lost to memory.

As for why Meridia has abandoned her worshippers, I think it is because she was severely wounded in the Three Princes' attack and lacks the strength. She also has no mortal champion she can use to circumvent the Coldharbour Pact.

Maybe Meridia has received her deserved correction already, outside of the Vestige's sight.

I'm not expecting to see Meridia as an antagonist in the game. I think that would conflict too much with the events in Coldharbour, the Main Quest and Cadwell's Silver/Gold. Remember the "do as you like" flexible timeline.

Foefaller

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

[Yeah she was a magna ge, so it would make sense if in a future plot she wants to unmake Nirn as she sees it as a mistake. That would be an interesting plot

I won't reply to your insulting texts, PrayingSeraph, just let's get back to the post it all started. The one I quoted above made me write my very first reply. You say, Meridia was a Magna Ge. The Magna Ge are said to make holes in the Oblivion veil, the stars we see in the night sky. But there is no concept of the Magna Ge in Yokudan religion - from the Yokudan perspective the stars were placed by Ruptga to guide the spirits to the Far Shores. Now, please, tell me what kind of a Magna Ge Meridia was from that Redguard (Yokudan) perspective and what do they understand under that "Magna Ge" concept? Just give me a canon source and if I see the words "Magna Ge", "Star Orphans", "Aetherius" or any such Imperial things along with the name of Ruptga, Satakal and etc. answering my question. I'll acknowledge I was wrong. If there's no source provided, I wait the same from you. I need just a source, not your explanations that the concepts we speak about has been existing "as is" for eternity irrespectively of any religious views. Thank you in advance.

Wait, so your argument is because there is a story that has a different explanation of the stars from everyone else, the whole nature of the stars and Aetherius must be held in doubt?

Few thoughts on that:

First, Hume is a terrible philosopher.

Second, one myth that has a different explanation of things does not, nor should it, throw everything into doubt. The lore for the Elder Scrolls setting, at least in my opinion, is not that "all of these cultures have different explanations for stuff and we don't know which is true," but rather that "all these cultures are recalling a truth, but the details have been forgotten/hidden/reinterpreted over the millennia and the blanks filled in by each culture depending on their understanding and values" Sort of like the Norse Odin vs the Germanic Wotan, both one-eyed king of the gods, hints at single chief diety that was worshipped by the ancestors of both cultures.

The Yokudan explanation of the stars, IMO, does not put in doubt their connection to Aetherius, only gives a different interpretation for their existence. The common Imperial/Tamrielic explanation was they were created by the Magna-Ge when they were escaping Nirn, the Yokudan that they were places by Tall Papa as a guide to the Far Shores for the spirits who wanted to avoid the endless hunger of Satakal. While their origin is different, their purpose is the same; a method for or remnant from spirits to escape from the cycle of death and rebirth.

You could say Meridia was a Magna-Ge who failed to breach Oblivion into Aetherius and create her own star, or a spirit that failed to return to the Walkabout to escape Sep's deception. Neither are exactly wrong because, thanks to the quirks of the English language, you can say in both cases that she failed to "follow the stars" to leave Nirn.

Raisin

AETHERIUS IS A LIE, NIRN IS FLAT, DRAGON BREAKS ARE FICTION INVENTED BY THE ALESSIAN ORDER TO COVER UP THEIR MISTAKES AS THEY PULL YOUR STRINGS FROM THE SHADOWS, OPEN YOUR EYES BEFORE IT'S TOO LA

Thicclady

I hope this game some time gets the lore on same level on quality and amount that World of Warcraft has. Then I would consider subscription. Maybe in few years.

Jacarranda

Thicclady wrote: »

I hope this game some time gets the lore on same level on quality and amount that World of Warcraft has. Then I would consider subscription. Maybe in few years.

what do you mean. the lore of wow is terrible

Eporem

Came across this of Meridia - maybe containing a little more insight into what she is about in ESO

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Exegesis_of_Merid-Nunda

edit: though it still does not say for certain whether she was a Magna-Ge

Aigym_Hlervu

Foefaller wrote: »

Wait, so your argument is because there is a story that has a different explanation of the stars from everyone else, the whole nature of the stars and Aetherius must be held in doubt?

[snip]

Edited by me: No, I only meant that Meridia as a former Magna Ge is only one of the truths, that Aetherius is an in-game religious concept and it exists not in every in-game religion.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Foefaller

"We shouldn't speculate on what the future is for future Meridia content solely on the basis that Meridia is absolutely is a Magna-Ge unless it gets confirmed, because there are other explanations."

There @Cygemai_Hlervu , that's the point you were trying to make right? Except that you initial way of saying it was something many saw as a long, rambling in-character soliloquy that sounding more like an attempt to derail the thread rather than to encourage a discussion. So please, don't get angry at us because we legitimately didn't understand what you were trying to say.

And for the record, my first post cosidered what it would mean for Meridia as a Magna-Ge if it were true. Seraph was the one that tried to correct me by saying it was true

Now please come back! I was waiting all day for you to respond in hopes of debating how the stars in the Yokudan telling are suppose to guide spirits to the Far Shores, and whether the line that they are now "too far to leap to" should be taken literally.

Aigym_Hlervu

Foefaller wrote: »

"We shouldn't speculate on what the future is for future Meridia content solely on the basis that Meridia is absolutely is a Magna-Ge unless it gets confirmed, because there are other explanations."

There @Cygemai_Hlervu , that's the point you were trying to make right?

<Sigh>.. Discuss her plans as long as you wish. "Meridia is a former Magna Ge - this point of view is the only truth accepted by everyone in Tamriel lore-wise" - this idea is the only thing I disagreed there because it totally contradicts the existing lore and I spoke of the Meridia's nature depicted in the lore only. I only said that you guys were wrong and explained why. But some of you insisted and they made me think it is they who were trolls or simply those taletallers in the lore section in their "in-character" mode. And for the record, I've never meant to offend anyone personally here. It's just the ideas some of you insist on that confidently as an act of trolling or mocking, that made me treat them the same way. I'm sorry if any of my words offended you personally. This is you who still mocks at me pretending that you have misunderstood me after all those walls of texts I wrote here .

Hurbster

Any chance of getting back on the subject ? I went to Kilkreath Temple wanting to have words with Meridia about me old mate Darien and I was highly disappointed that she had buggered off.

Foefaller

Hurbster wrote: »

Any chance of getting back on the subject ? I went to Kilkreath Temple wanting to have words with Meridia about me old mate Darien and I was highly disappointed that she had buggered off.

It would be somewhat hilarious, and also speak volumes as to Meridia's personality, if the hinted conclusion to the Greymoor quest at Kilkreath lead directly to the state it was in during Skyrim.