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Stop Allowing BGs to Start if 3v4v4

TheGremlyn
Too many times I've been on a team that only has 3 players and the others have 4. Our team is always disadvantaged as we're hammered by the other groups. We're weaker still when we try to break off and one person is always by themselves. Even when we try to stick together if we run into one group there's also the chance one or two others from the other team may happen by. Maybe we could struggle through that with a 4 man team, but not 3. At no point during the match did another play queue up into the group, though I've been popped into BGs in progress before.

Stop doing this.
Just Call Me Stalwart
PC NA
Tank First, Healer Second, DPS for Fun
  • SalamanNZ
    SalamanNZ
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    I agree 100%
  • wylievc
    wylievc
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    This is because queue times have gone up (mine have anyways, since the solo queue change) and so by the time 12 people are found and given a prompt to enter, often some won't respond or cancel. Those who don't answer the queue pop might happen to all be on one team. I've been in games where 1v4v4. The obvious solution is an auto-balance algorithm. 1v4v4 should take a person each from the full teams and move them to 3v3v3, etc. The game still needs to search for 3 new players, but in the meantime, before the game starts, balance that [snip] out..... Even if it's not a good auto-balance (4v3v1 resulting in 3v3v2) it's still better than nothing. Many people these days just afk through these short-handed fights and these days I end up on probably more imbalanced games than balanced ones...

    [Edited for Censor Bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Psiion on June 18, 2020 12:56AM
  • SpiderKnight
    SpiderKnight
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    This is happening to me today, if it happens one more time, I won't even bother anymore. I actually got put back into the match I left 5 minutes ago...345-345-0 lmao.
  • dhboy123
    dhboy123
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Any answer on this, tagged you in 3 topics now about this? Multiple people not playing BG's again due to this easy to fix flaw.
    Edited by dhboy123 on June 29, 2020 3:48AM
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    Things like this are why there's such negativity on the forums, especially around PvP content (or lack there-of).
    Things like this are why people say things [snip]

    Group/team filling in BGs has been bugged basically since inception. Many thought it was due in part to groups creating odd numbered parties and skewing MMR and the system was stuck trying to balance MMR of players AND find group sizes that "fit" together.
    Now there's no groups. There's no more excuses.

    This 3v4v4 crap with NEVER a backfill has been going for at least eight months. No word, no acknowledgement, no fix.

    I just came from a 3v4v4 match. At one point, a person left from each of the other teams and it was 3v3v3... a minute later, they were both back up to 4 players and my team was STILL at 3.
    I've seen similar situation where the team with 3 people has one drop, and they're almost instantly filled back up to 3... but never above 3.

    It CANNOT be that difficult to put 12 people in a single instance together.
    It leaves people no other options, no other ideas than either they can't or they simply don't care to fix it.

    [edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on July 14, 2020 7:23PM
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
    Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
    High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
    Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
    Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
    Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
    M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
    Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
    Bone Daddy - lvl 50 Stamcro, AD
    Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 Magcro, AD
    CP 1100+
  • pauld1_ESO
    pauld1_ESO
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    I see ZOS moderators editing these posts but I don't see anyone from ZOS addressing this obvious problem. Can we at least get an acknowledgement? I will quit every match I am shorted in. I am pretty new to PvP but it is the only thing keeping me playing this game right now. I have a spent a TON of money in this store, I just might be picking up my ball and going home if something like this cannot be fixed.
  • RedTalon
    RedTalon
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    Better then what use to happen honestly, they use to not start till teams filled and got stuck waiting.
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    pauld1_ESO wrote: »
    I see ZOS moderators editing these posts but I don't see anyone from ZOS addressing this obvious problem.

    Yeah, this is the ultimate irony.

    Wanna see something fun? Go flip through the bug report forums, or hell, the BG forums right here. Go through 10 pages, count the number of ZoS replies, then check those "replies" and see how many of them were moderator action.Last time I did it, there were something like 14 "replies" in 10 pages. That's 300 topics. Out of those 14, something like 11 of them were moderator action. That's 1 in 100, or ~1% engagement.

    Now look, I'm well aware that not every thread needs, or even deserves, a reply. And that some have already been answered in other threads.
    I'm also aware that the devs need to spend time actually working on the game and not just on the forums 'appeasing' people. That's fair, I get it.
    But "more, clearer communication" as has been promised, is not addressing less than 1% of player feedback.
    That's not flaming, it's just mathematics and common sense.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Communication is the key to goodwill and reducing toxicity on the forums, NOT moderation and silence. The latter breeds only contempt and paranoia among the playerbase because, absent any actual feedback, disgruntled angry and emotional people tend to turn toward negative sentiment.
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
    Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
    High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
    Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
    Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
    Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
    M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
    Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
    Bone Daddy - lvl 50 Stamcro, AD
    Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 Magcro, AD
    CP 1100+
  • MKintr
    MKintr
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    pauld1_ESO wrote: »
    ... I will quit every match I am shorted in. ...

    Please don't just quit if you land in a group of 3. Often the last space fills up during the match. Also think of the others in your group. Keeping up as 3 vs 4x4 is hard enough, but being left in a group of 2 just hurts your team mates.

    On the positive side: if your team of 3 wins the match, it's really an achievement. I managed this some times. Should give an extra achievement: winning against all odds or victory despite all bugs :D
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    MKintr wrote: »
    pauld1_ESO wrote: »
    ... I will quit every match I am shorted in. ...

    Often the last space fills up during the match.

    No, it actually doesn't.
    When someone on the team of three quits, it almost immediately fills back up to three, but never above three.
    When someone on the teams of four drops, it fills them back up to four while leaving the other team at three.
    It's broken. And it's always Fire Drakes. Watch for that next time it happens. It's a known and reproducible bug.
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
    Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
    High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
    Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
    Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
    Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
    M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
    Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
    Bone Daddy - lvl 50 Stamcro, AD
    Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 Magcro, AD
    CP 1100+
  • MKintr
    MKintr
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    Sometimes it fills up, sometimes not. You shouldn't quit right after the start. Usually the orange group is not filled up.
  • pauld1_ESO
    pauld1_ESO
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    I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of this. The amount of times I end up on a shorted team is insane. I am putting in a ticket every time it happens now, you should all do the same.
  • Jellybean
    Jellybean
    I just started playing this game a few weeks ago. I play a lot of battlegrounds and see this in maybe 40% of my matches. Not a great way to introduce new players to the game...
  • SweepsAllClowns
    SweepsAllClowns
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    Jellybean wrote: »
    I just started playing this game a few weeks ago. I play a lot of battlegrounds and see this in maybe 40% of my matches. Not a great way to introduce new players to the game...

    Correct and when new players have less experience and aren't so well geared yet, the overall experience will be very horribad if they already start the matches with less players in team. It's also quite hard to try to learn to play in such circumstances, what happens is the frustration and then they avoid playing battlegrounds. 4v4v4 game mode must be always balanced what comes to numbers at least.
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    Still happening, about one-in-three or one-in-four games.
    Rampant, wide-spread, reproducible, game-breaking bug.

    Still no fix, no reply.
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
    Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
    High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
    Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
    Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
    Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
    M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
    Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
    Bone Daddy - lvl 50 Stamcro, AD
    Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 Magcro, AD
    CP 1100+
  • Jellybean
    Jellybean
    I have no words...

    yY4ykM1.png
  • L_Nici
    L_Nici
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    Be happy they do let them start 3v4v4, a few patches back they wouldn't start for hours since no 4th person was found...
    A very special girl

    PC|EU
  • pauld1_ESO
    pauld1_ESO
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    L_Nici wrote: »
    Be happy they do let them start 3v4v4, a few patches back they wouldn't start for hours since no 4th person was found...

    So in other words don't be sad if you have one flat tire because the other three are still good? No thanks dude....how about we stay mad at the fact this still sucks and they need to fix it?
  • TwinLamps
    TwinLamps
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    Also stop grouping me with lemmings that jump solo into 5 enemies and die
    Awake, but at what cost
  • pauld1_ESO
    pauld1_ESO
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    6 BGs this morning.....in ONE OF THEM I HAD A FULL *** TEAM. This is straight up ***.
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    L_Nici wrote: »
    Be happy they do let them start 3v4v4, a few patches back they wouldn't start for hours since no 4th person was found...

    Honestly this is the reason I think we're having the problem.
    They never fixed the problem then, only implemented a "workaround" so that the BG didn't just 'hang' forever.
    I imagine they didn't know how to fix it then, and still don't now, so this workaround has just been left in indefinitely.
    pauld1_ESO wrote: »
    L_Nici wrote: »
    Be happy they do let them start 3v4v4, a few patches back they wouldn't start for hours since no 4th person was found...

    So in other words don't be sad if you have one flat tire because the other three are still good? No thanks dude....how about we stay mad at the fact this still sucks and they need to fix it?

    This.
    We're not here ranting about a bug that came up yesterday, or a week ago, or even a month ago. We're talking about a game-breaking bug that's been in the game, in one form or another, for over half a year.
    It's a reproducible bug. They should be able to confirm it through their internal metrics, and numerous people are corroborating it on the forums and in-game.
    Still. No. Word.

    So many white knights with their "entitlement" argument.
    No one here is being unreasonable.
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
    Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
    High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
    Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
    Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
    Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
    M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
    Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
    Bone Daddy - lvl 50 Stamcro, AD
    Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 Magcro, AD
    CP 1100+
  • Integral1900
    Integral1900
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    ✭✭
    Most likely the system has two criteria

    Try to make groups of four, if not then once there is at least two full and no one in the que for that match type or a random match, then start anyway

    Basically it probably does it because there are so few people in the queues that if it didn’t your match simply wouldn’t start

    Your gonna need a lot more battleground players before it stops
  • redgreensunset
    redgreensunset
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    Most likely the system has two criteria

    Try to make groups of four, if not then once there is at least two full and no one in the que for that match type or a random match, then start anyway

    Basically it probably does it because there are so few people in the queues that if it didn’t your match simply wouldn’t start

    Your gonna need a lot more battleground players before it stops

    Except this system has the opposite effect, it'll make fewer and fewer people play BGs because honestly this is boring and unfair no matter which team you're on.
  • pauld1_ESO
    pauld1_ESO
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    Most likely the system has two criteria

    Try to make groups of four, if not then once there is at least two full and no one in the que for that match type or a random match, then start anyway

    Basically it probably does it because there are so few people in the queues that if it didn’t your match simply wouldn’t start

    Your gonna need a lot more battleground players before it stops

    I literally was in a deathmatch solo vs.. two teams of four. I only stayed so I could take screenshots as to how long it would take to get a full team....a few minutes before it ended I got ONE other player.

    I don't think there is a "system" or "criteria".
  • idk
    idk
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The issue is Zos needs to get their GF working right. Last night I queued for a dungeon with a fill group and it took several minutes for the queue to pop.

    Considering how poorly it was designed at launch and the problems we have had with both dungeons and BGs for several years I doubt we see milich movement on this.
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    idk wrote: »
    The issue is Zos needs to get their GF working right. Last night I queued for a dungeon with a fill group and it took several minutes for the queue to pop.

    Considering how poorly it was designed at launch and the problems we have had with both dungeons and BGs for several years I doubt we see milich movement on this.

    This. Dungeon finder was non-functional more often than it was (semi-)functional, and it took them years to get it to it's current state. . and that was with them acknowledging the issues and actively working on it.
    We haven't even gotten an acknowledgement of the issues.
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
    Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
    High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
    Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
    Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
    Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
    M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
    Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
    Bone Daddy - lvl 50 Stamcro, AD
    Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 Magcro, AD
    CP 1100+
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