Argonians and classes

onweer

How are classes related to argonians? I'm not sure which class would fit them. I want a Templar, but not sure if this is lore-friendly.

idk

Technically races are not related to classes. They are a choice that can benefit builds but for the most part races benefit either stam or mag dps, tanking and/or healing.

The argonian Resourceful passive is good for sustain and a little max magicka. The Argonian Resistance passives provide a little more max health. Life Mender boosts healing done. Those two passives are good for tanking or healing.

onweer

And what about a Dragonknight?

onweer

idk wrote: »

Technically races are not related to classes. They are a choice that can benefit builds but for the most part races benefit either stam or mag dps, tanking and/or healing.

But what about the lore?

idk

It would be good for a DK tank. The sustain is nice.

If you are looking to DPS with an Argonian race that would be fine as well. You would gain some good sustain but the race does not provide much in the way of boosting DPS. In other words, not top DPS material but sustain is still good.

idk

onweer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Technically races are not related to classes. They are a choice that can benefit builds but for the most part races benefit either stam or mag dps, tanking and/or healing.

But what about the lore?

Lore is a tricky area as some suggest some of the races do not have passives that line up the long term lore of TES games and I am far from an expert on lore. Well, I am not an expert on anything for that matter. I can only speak to how the passives are beneficial to the gameplay.

RaddlemanNumber7

There's barely any lore relating to ESO classes, and what there is is particularly vague, opinionated and contradictory. IIRC there's nothing in it at all that links any of the playable races to any particular classes.

I think it is clear that the devs' aim here is to leave players completely free to choose any race/class combination they want to unrestricted by lore.

Raisin

Classes, as far as lore goes, are basically just specialisations for different types of skill/ability themes. They're like your character making a choice of what kind of combat/other ability they like, and choosing to put their efforts into learning that particular branch of.... Stuff. (I don't want to say magic for confusion's sake.)
As such, anybody can do anything, and you will see that NPCs also come in all sorts of combinations.
Wardens may play into the more obvious nature-based shaman type vibes we see in some Argonians that are very in touch with the Hist, the marsh, or any other land they feel tied too. I think that's the most cliche combination for me.
Nightblades can play into the darkness favoring Sithis-aligned vibes; but then the general tendency seems to be respect for Sithis rather than worship, so a Templar focusing on light-headed abilities makes just as much sense. Spears as a theme IMO also fit very well. But Argonians, just like any race, can be interested in pursuing necromancy, or focus on summoning daedra. They can worship Meridia, for a Templar theme. Dragonknights with the fire (or acid looking if you want to morph that way) breath, also work IMO. They're just people, that have preferences, or a certain knack for something, and make choices.

Remember that any individual of the races can differ from the stereotypical/generalized aspects of the overall population, without being some kind of super provocative outlier. It's much more realistic to assume that tastes and abilities vary.

Eporem

There is this lore that tells of Ancient Argonians directed by the Hist to worship the Sun

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vakka_Stone

and this lore description of the Templar - They wield the powers of light and the burning sun to smite the wicked, or to heal and support the wounded.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Templar

PrayingSeraph

I would say Warden would be the closest to traditional argonian culture. Both Black Marsh and Morrowind neighbour eachother somthe summons make some sense(Netches are related to swamp jellies). Argonians commune with the hist tree and live in harmony with their enviroment.

The thing with Templar is that its aedric based, with very much a Stendarr theme. Argonians are in average the least likely to worship aedra compared to the other races.

Now, keep in mind any person in tamriel can be the exception instead of the rule. Its entirely possible for an argonian to worship the Aedra.

onweer

Eporem wrote: »

There is this lore that tells of Ancient Argonians directed by the Hist to worship the Sun

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vakka_Stone

and this lore description of the Templar - They wield the powers of light and the burning sun to smite the wicked, or to heal and support the wounded.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Templar

Thank you so much. Now I see :>

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vakka-Bok_Xanmeer
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:In_Accord_With_Those_Sun-Blessed
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Last_Wish_of_the_Sun-Blessed

LadyNalcarya

onweer wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

There is this lore that tells of Ancient Argonians directed by the Hist to worship the Sun

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vakka_Stone

and this lore description of the Templar - They wield the powers of light and the burning sun to smite the wicked, or to heal and support the wounded.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Templar

Thank you so much. Now I see :>

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vakka-Bok_Xanmeer
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:In_Accord_With_Those_Sun-Blessed
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Last_Wish_of_the_Sun-Blessed

Templars seem to worship Stendarr, not the sun. All templar-related skill books mention him.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rituals_of_the_Harmonious_Masters
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stendarr's_Divine_Spear
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Four_Abominations
However it is said that Stendarr is willing to lend his strength to everyone, "even the heretic Dark Elves of Morrowind may use his magic of defense and healing, even so the scaled folk of Argonia, for Stendarr in his benevolence draws no distinction between those who rightfully worship him and those who, in their ignorance and error, do not". So argonian templars would still be lore friendly.

Other that that, I would say that warden would also be a good choice, as well as nightblade (so you would be a shadowscale).

Iccotak

This is what I did for my Argonian Templar
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511200/argonian-templar-background-that-anyone-can-use

From what I understand the Sun is Aedric in origin

So it makes sense the the Hist could have taught the Argonians "sun magic"

Foefaller

IIRC only Necromancers get any sort of acknowledgement as a "class" in the traditional sense. The other classes are really more or less a classification of what sort of combat-related skills and magic that your character focuses on other than weapons, and armor.

The fact they don't neatly fit in the traditional schools of magic is even explained in a lorebook; the Mage's Guild has yet to adopt the schools of magic as is known in the main series (which they apparently adapted from the Dunmer mage school of Shad Astula) so a character's understanding of the magic they use rarely comes with the knowledge of how that can be applied to other spells.

Aptonoth

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I would say Warden would be the closest to traditional argonian culture. Both Black Marsh and Morrowind neighbour eachother somthe summons make some sense(Netches are related to swamp jellies). Argonians commune with the hist tree and live in harmony with their enviroment.

The thing with Templar is that its aedric based, with very much a Stendarr theme. Argonians are in average the least likely to worship aedra compared to the other races.

Now, keep in mind any person in tamriel can be the exception instead of the rule. Its entirely possible for an argonian to worship the Aedra.

Not even close. Traditional Argonian lore from all prior TES games has them being both sneaky with magick and great in combat with spears and blades. They even have an entire faction of Nightblades called shadowscales named after them. The most iconic role they have in their entire culture.

I'm sick and tired of Zenimax turning them into more and more generic aztec forest hippies. I wish Zenimax would fix them to be proper and have the actual abilities they are supposed to have because it looks more and more like people don't know what Argonians are supposed to even be like.

Djennku

There was a group of Argonian warriors who used sun magick, and were the opposite of the Shadowscales known as Sunscales. The Vakka-Bok Xanmeer has books that talk about the order. So it makes complete sense that Templar argonians would exist. Instead of the Aedra, they utilize the might of the sun itself.

PrayingSeraph

Aptonoth wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I would say Warden would be the closest to traditional argonian culture. Both Black Marsh and Morrowind neighbour eachother somthe summons make some sense(Netches are related to swamp jellies). Argonians commune with the hist tree and live in harmony with their enviroment.

The thing with Templar is that its aedric based, with very much a Stendarr theme. Argonians are in average the least likely to worship aedra compared to the other races.

Now, keep in mind any person in tamriel can be the exception instead of the rule. Its entirely possible for an argonian to worship the Aedra.

Not even close. Traditional Argonian lore from all prior TES games has them being both sneaky with magick and great in combat with spears and blades. They even have an entire faction of Nightblades called shadowscales named after them. The most iconic role they have in their entire culture.

I'm sick and tired of Zenimax turning them into more and more generic aztec forest hippies. I wish Zenimax would fix them to be proper and have the actual abilities they are supposed to have because it looks more and more like people don't know what Argonians are supposed to even be like.

"Traditional" argonian depictions were relatively few. We never seen Black Marsh until ESO(well technically arena but..ehh). So what we see now is a good indication of what argonian society is like, and wardens are a good general fit.

tsaescishoeshiner

The #1 for suresies thing that will make your race and class feel in alignment and lore-based is to craft a backstory for your character — even a small one. The most lore-friendly character is one that is treated like a real individual living in Tamriel.

Take redguards — they're depicted in ESO as culturally despising necromancers, yet we even see plenty of redguard necromancers in ESO. Not everyone follows the rules or lives where their race's homeland is considered to be, and if anything, that makes a redguard necromancer more interesting

Here's an argonian from Elder Scrolls Legends using templar-looking magic (Edit: the card is "Shadowfen Priest"):

ESO has promoted an identity for argonians as healers via the passives, which has impacted player race+class choices and other depictions of argonians. I see a lot of argonian wardens, too. Mine's a sorcerer healer / battlegrounds nuisance

Ithilis

Not really addition to argonian-discussion, but Templar-class is clearly designed to fit Redguard lore about Sword Singing where the user conjures a perfect weapon in their hand.

Edit: found this old thread with discussion what race-what class https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/445275/question-for-the-lore-masters

Anyron

I think argonians doesnt fit into any class.. they have something from everyone.
But I like oblivion's argonians being shadowscales..
I think zos doesnt now where to put argonians, that would explain such small amount of content.. ( murkmire is really tiny and shadowfen is influenced a lot by dark elf..) Maybe in future we will see
But now i see argonians going towards the "lizardmen" from another game which im not going to name :P

VioletDracolich

Literally any character can be any race and class combo and it would make sense lore wise. An Argonian Templar could act as a tribal healer or tree tender depending on the tribe your character is suppose to hail from. If your character was born outside of Black Marsh and/or in Slavery, they could have adopted traditions of the cultures they were raised in. This has happened at several points in TES lore BTW, so keep that in mind.

Aptonoth

Anyron wrote: »

I think argonians doesnt fit into any class.. they have something from everyone.
But I like oblivion's argonians being shadowscales..
I think zos doesnt now where to put argonians, that would explain such small amount of content.. ( murkmire is really tiny and shadowfen is influenced a lot by dark elf..) Maybe in future we will see
But now i see argonians going towards the "lizardmen" from another game which im not going to name :P

I hope they try make their culture a bit more original than that. Every lizard race is like the Warhammer one. No Warhammer fantasy lizardmen or unga bangs aztecs they need to be a unique culture with unique goals and outlook. I think the hist are the key to making the argonians unique culture the further and further into black marsh the more and more pervasive their powers should get. The entire hist collective should be a giant hive mind and sort of computer avatar style but their goals should be more ambiguous than good. The more and more they can spread themselves the more powerful their magics will grow even to the detriment of other life forms. The hist and argonians need to be very divided on if spreading the gist is a good thing. Maybe some hurst even want to enslave non-argonians to their will.

emilyhyoyeon

Wanna add that just because ESO templar has a skill line called aedric spear doesn't mean your argonian templar (or any race templar) has to worship or be involved with the aedra. There's plenty to the templar class that can be taken as simple restoration and alteration based magic.

PrayingSeraph

Ithilis wrote: »

Not really addition to argonian-discussion, but Templar-class is clearly designed to fit Redguard lore about Sword Singing where the user conjures a perfect weapon in their hand.

Edit: found this old thread with discussion what race-what class https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/445275/question-for-the-lore-masters

Templar class isn't about conjuring up the "perfect weapon". There's little connection between Redguard lore and Templar class. Templar class is aedric themed, and the books that level it up are Stendarr related books. Templar has little to do with any specific race, but more to do with religion.

Iccotak

The classes are thematically vague enough that any race fits.

This is not World of Warcraft where specific races can only have specific class choices,

All the classes of ESO use combinations of illusion, Alteration, Conjuration, and Destruction magic.

Templars fit with any race because all races have some form of connection with Aedra, healing magic, and the Sun.
Nightblades fit any races because every one of them have rogue/assassin organizations.
Every race has a cultural practice with nature so Wardens fit everybody (though it would be nice if we could change the bear)
Same goes for Necromancers, Sorcerer, and Dragon Knights.

You as a player can use your imagination (and lore research) to ask why your character has this specific set of skills.

For example; I made a background that any Templar Argonian character could use. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511200/argonian-templar-background-that-anyone-can-use

Wandering_Immigrant

A case can be made for any race class combination.

I have an Argonian Necromancer. While there's no connection there specifically cited in any lore that I'm aware of, Argonians do have a clear belief of the body being just a husk to carry the soul. That combined with thier casual views of death makes me feel they'd be more willing to see the empty former husks of the fallen as tools to be utilized. And in fact there is the Argonian warrior in murkmire who carved a sword out of her fallen brother's bones, which while not wholey necromantic, would probably be considered a no-no along the same lines as necromancy among other races.

Aristocles22

Races and classes don't really connect in TES per se, least of all in ESO. While it is true that some races are inclined for some classes, the connection isn't always firm. While the usual connection drawn is that three races are inclined to be mages (Altmer, Dunmer, Breton), three to be warriors (Orc, Nord, Redguard), three to be rogues (Khajiit, Argonian, Bosmer), and Imperials can be pretty much anything, it doesn't always hold up. For example, Bretons have fine knightly orders (obviously fighters), and are the most magically talented humans in the world at the same time.

The races simply have too many cultural and/or biological variants to draw strict connections for which race fits a certain class. Some Khajiit furstocks (I'm not very good with the names of them, forgive me) are much larger than other races and clearly fit the "fighter" mold, while some are clearly fit for being cat burglars in a very literal sense. I will say that if Khajiit have a cat's senses, those alone would make them formidable at thieving and scouting, but if they have the stamina of a cat, they'd make terrible fighters outside of an ambush, like real cats. Same thing with Argonians, as reptiles have terrible stamina next to humans or most mammals.

Of course, biology isn't the only or even main thing dictating what classes "naturally" go with what races. The Dunmer are divided into their Houses, which have clear cultural leanings for different classes. Specifically, House Redoran is clearly the "fighter" archetype, Telvanni is obviously the "mage", and Hlaalu could be seen as the "rogue" in that they are willing to do whatever it takes to make a septim. Of course, there's also Indoril with its devotion to the Temple, so that would cover "cleric" classes as well, I suppose.

As for Argonians, there's nothing about their biology which predisposes them to be sneaky. The "rogue" stereotype comes from the Shadowscales in their culture, a group of assassins very much like the Dark Brotherhood or Morag Tong. I guess the Naga tribe has a strong "fighter" preference, but each tribe of Argonians is quite different, both in culture, government, sometimes even in appearance. It's hard to draw generalizations about how culture or even biology would impact what classes go well with them.