The real problem behind all of this lag, latency, desyncs etc...

Berek_Bloodfang

Elder Scrolls Online is still trying to operate on a single "mega" server located in (1) place per region, other successful MMORPGS have multiple servers/hubs all over the regions that their players play from. Anyone who is not centrally located near the mega server will be greatly hindered, especially when the server is at it's maximum capacity... For the love of the community please add MORE MEGA SERVERS ACROSS THE REGIONS... We need a West Coast and an East Coast MEGA server in North America....




As you can see below I have a fairly decent internet connection, however when I venture in Cyrodiil i'm met with 2-3 second delays from when I press my keyboard/mouse to when the ability registers and displays on my screen, in most cases the ability doesn't even connect showing damage... The desync, lag, latency, coding whatever you want to call it is an absolute nightmare and needs to be dealt with.

Ashtaris

And so if I had a friend or relative who I wanted to explore with located on the East Coast, too bad? Adding capacity might lessen the load and improve issues temporarily, but the problem with the servers goes far beyond a capacity issue.

gatekeeper13

Their strategy of single mega-servers is a failed one but they insist on following it, cause changing it would cost millions. And that's not sth shareholders would appreciate.

relentless_turnip

It isn't a single server. The mega server is actually loads of servers linked seamlessly together. This technology is known as a 'mega server'. They have increased the capacity for EU and NA multiple times(added more servers).

This is actually the same as what other MMOs do, but they aren't linked together. Even WOW uses multiple servers for one server this is how layering works. All the European servers are always located together the French servers for example are for French speaking players.

The lag issue is a lot of things, but it isn't the server or the technology they use.

I am no expert by the way I read about the 'mega server' technology when zenimax first announced it before ESO's release.

Raudgrani

Ashtaris wrote: »

And so if I had a friend or relative who I wanted to explore with located on the East Coast, too bad? Adding capacity might lessen the load and improve issues temporarily, but the problem with the servers goes far beyond a capacity issue.

I'm not exactly an expert on servers, but I don't think this is how it works. There's a Facebook server here in my city, if I went there and blew it up (I won't, I promise!), it's not like Facebook worldwide would suddenly collapse and be no more. Because there are other Facebook servers. Maybe it would cause an interruption and a lot of trouble for a while, but I doubt a single piece of content would be lost. Because it's part of Facebook, which is not "regional" - but a global network with several servers.

It's a bit hard to toss these terms and descriptions around, because I'm not a native English speaker. But I suppose you understand what I mean.

ItsJustHashtag

Berek_Bloodfang wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online is still trying to operate on a single "mega" server located in (1) place per region, other successful MMORPGS have multiple servers/hubs all over the regions that their players play from. Anyone who is not centrally located near the mega server will be greatly hindered, especially when the server is at it's maximum capacity... For the love of the community please add MORE MEGA SERVERS ACROSS THE REGIONS... We need a West Coast and an East Coast MEGA server in North America....

You can live right next to the server, I know at least 3 people within 30 min of the NA server, but they still have all the same issues as someone who lives on the west and east coast.

Lysette

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

Raudgrani

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

No, it would not. See my example about Facebook above. It's not like people here in northern Sweden only has access to other's living in the area, it's the same Facebook, but still the server load is split up on multiple servers. Frankly, we could merge the EU and the NA server - and why not merge Xbox and Playstation while we are at it - at the same server network, and still split it up on like a Scandinavian, a European, two North American, an Australian and an Asian server - and we would not need to say goodbye to any friends.

Lysette

Raudgrani wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

No, it would not. See my example about Facebook above. It's not like people here in northern Sweden only has access to other's living in the area, it's the same Facebook, but still the server load is split up on multiple servers. Frankly, we could merge the EU and the NA server - and why not merge Xbox and Playstation while we are at it - at the same server network, and still split it up on like a Scandinavian, a European, two North American, an Australian and an Asian server - and we would not need to say goodbye to any friends.

facebook is not a time critical application where latency would matter.

ItsJustHashtag

Lysette wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

No, it would not. See my example about Facebook above. It's not like people here in northern Sweden only has access to other's living in the area, it's the same Facebook, but still the server load is split up on multiple servers. Frankly, we could merge the EU and the NA server - and why not merge Xbox and Playstation while we are at it - at the same server network, and still split it up on like a Scandinavian, a European, two North American, an Australian and an Asian server - and we would not need to say goodbye to any friends.

facebook is not a time critical application where latency would matter.

Tell that to my aunts....

blendertoes

Someone would scream "Pay to Win!" and demand compensation for a move closer to a server for reduced latency.

Berek_Bloodfang

Raudgrani wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

And so if I had a friend or relative who I wanted to explore with located on the East Coast, too bad? Adding capacity might lessen the load and improve issues temporarily, but the problem with the servers goes far beyond a capacity issue.

I'm not exactly an expert on servers, but I don't think this is how it works. There's a Facebook server here in my city, if I went there and blew it up (I won't, I promise!), it's not like Facebook worldwide would suddenly collapse and be no more. Because there are other Facebook servers. Maybe it would cause an interruption and a lot of trouble for a while, but I doubt a single piece of content would be lost. Because it's part of Facebook, which is not "regional" - but a global network with several servers.

It's a bit hard to toss these terms and descriptions around, because I'm not a native English speaker. But I suppose you understand what I mean.

He absolutely has no idea what he is talking about, MMORPGs have been running multiple server locations for a decade now, ie, World of Warcraft the most heavily played MMORPG still to this day doesn't have a single bit of lag, desync, delay, etc.

gatekeeper13

Berek_Bloodfang wrote: »

MMORPGs have been running multiple server locations for a decade now, ie, World of Warcraft the most heavily played MMORPG still to this day doesn't have a single bit of lag, desync, delay, etc.

I dont like WoW at all, I think it sucks but I have to admit that their servers are awesome.

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

And what are people doing in games with multiple servers (most MMORPG out there)? Don't play together?

James-Wayne

Buddy back off... we need a Australian/Oceanic server before anymore US servers!!

Ri_Khan

I don't play any other online multiplayer games with PvP that don't have regional servers. These folks are out to lunch.

Cronopoly

While it looks like one big server it definitely is not. In a crash report recently you see the Zones IP addresses, which is different for separate zones. While this can be done using virtual Instances, it can also be on separate physical hardware.

I made a post in Lag and performance long ago. Most have no idea what they are talking about in an Enterprise Datacenter and how many moving parts there are... I'll dig it up.

volkeswagon

some of the lag issues is beyond their control. It depends on the quality of connection between you and their server. Wifi can be spotty so hardwire your internet and sometimes the connection can slow or stutter along the way which causes lag. That's why sometimes you can be in a group and someone is complaining of lag yet you have none.

MincVinyl

latency in game is reaching 120ms at best for most people to 250ms-500ms+ in greyhost. If you test your connection to either server independently you will see that your connection is around 7-15ms.

The rest of the latency experienced is due to:

1. anticheat issues
2. server hardware
3. Server/clientside calculations (almost everything is serverside, which is why it is harder to cheat in eso but the game plays like ass)
4. In game mechanics (Examples: How calculations are done. Mechanics like do over time effects stack? Do aoes hit any number of players? Do procs check to see if they can proc while still on cooldown?)
5. Player socialization (do players solo/smallman/largegroup/raid more?)
6. Item/ability/seige/cp Meta (Aoes/Procs/dots all lead to more calculations per GCD that are passed through the server/anticheat)
7. Complexity of mechanics unnecessarily complex abilities have been pushed over the years. Example I always provide is dizzy swing. Before it was a simple damage and knockup in one hit tied to one easy to see ability that was easy to counter. Now it does damage, applies a debuff that ties into not only the caster's cp but any ally who attacks that target. the stun is seemingly random from any enemy and not tied to any guaranteed animation which impedes counterplay. The unnecessary snare again is not tied to any animation to be counterable and just adds more calculations for the server.

Generally these issues all tie in together and make each other worse.

volkeswagon

so simpliying abilities so they are more straight forward and perhaps more selfish may improve performance by reducing calclations, or perhaps a faster more powerful engine or hardware? all that stacking can't be good for performance

MincVinyl

volkeswagon wrote: »

so simpliying abilities so they are more straight forward and perhaps more selfish may improve performance by reducing calclations, or perhaps a faster more powerful engine or hardware? all that stacking can't be good for performance

Yes essentially, and one way to quantify it is how many calculations are caused by one gcd(global cool down) of an ability== one button press.

As an example for just how the different damage types are:

direct hit: 1 damage calculation
dot with 1 hit per sec dot with 10 sec duration: 10 or 11 calculations(yes zos still hasnt standardized alot of things)
AoE hits 20 players: 20 calculations
AoE dot hits 20 players ticks 1per sec duration 10 sec: 200 or 220 calculations

Obviously you can see how these go insane, and it only gets worse the more condensed players are. What is funny is that during lag it seems the only things that work are things like aoe/dots/proc since alot of direct abilities seem to not work or disappear because of targeting issues with the servers during lag and in general these mechanics take off layers of skill that make them easier for anyone to use for guaranteed damage output. Thus the meta is pushed towards these forms of damage being viable and actually working better than the more traditional single target damage being everyone's main source of damage.

baggio27

MincVinyl wrote: »

What is funny is that during lag it seems the only things that work are things like aoe/dots/proc since alot of direct abilities seem to not work or disappear because of targeting issues with the servers during lag and in general these mechanics take off layers of skill that make them easier for anyone to use for guaranteed damage output. Thus the meta is pushed towards these forms of damage being viable and actually working better than the more traditional single target damage being everyone's main source of damage.

Actually, if you really see that, it might be server-side optimization technique for Cyrodiil. Under heavy load that is dense in one place (zerg) it is easy to realise that "numbers" and situation outcome are mostly dominated by AOE dmg and heals. They have years of statistics that can prove that. Devs, knowing that small scale single-target fights around are negligible to the encounter outcome, can prioritize AOEs for those heavy loads and drop randomly single target skills to keep most important part going, thus not affecting the big picture (but ruining non-zerg experience). That would be wise to do, if your server cannot satisfy requirements for 100% accuracy.

Artorias24

I live in Germany, 4 hours away from Frankfurt (by car) and i still get the same delay and lags as my friends from italy, Turkey or netherlands.

Its just the load in the Server that increases your ping and lag. Server cant handle all the load so your request takes longer to proceed and send back to you, increasing your ping and lag.

ZOS has to increase server capacity by Like 200% and work on better code to reduce the calculations on server Side. Not a simple or cheap task but thats whats really needed.

Lysette

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Berek_Bloodfang wrote: »

MMORPGs have been running multiple server locations for a decade now, ie, World of Warcraft the most heavily played MMORPG still to this day doesn't have a single bit of lag, desync, delay, etc.

I dont like WoW at all, I think it sucks but I have to admit that their servers are awesome.

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

And what are people doing in games with multiple servers (most MMORPG out there)? Don't play together?

can you play eso on pc with an xbox player - no you can't - can you play from an eu server with smeone from an na server, no you can't - you cannot even transfer your characters - the way in which ZOS would do it would split the community.

gatekeeper13

Lysette wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Berek_Bloodfang wrote: »

MMORPGs have been running multiple server locations for a decade now, ie, World of Warcraft the most heavily played MMORPG still to this day doesn't have a single bit of lag, desync, delay, etc.

I dont like WoW at all, I think it sucks but I have to admit that their servers are awesome.

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

And what are people doing in games with multiple servers (most MMORPG out there)? Don't play together?

can you play eso on pc with an xbox player - no you can't - can you play from an eu server with smeone from an na server, no you can't - you cannot even transfer your characters - the way in which ZOS would do it would split the community.

I am talking about ESO on pc.

Most MMORPGs out there have split servers e.g. WOW. Can people play there with their friends or not?

BRogueNZ

DC's fault.

Raudgrani

Lysette wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

splitting servers would as well split the community into shards - and it gets harder to play with friends from other continents and places in the world. the international and even intercontinental concept of the game is something i really appreciate.

No, it would not. See my example about Facebook above. It's not like people here in northern Sweden only has access to other's living in the area, it's the same Facebook, but still the server load is split up on multiple servers. Frankly, we could merge the EU and the NA server - and why not merge Xbox and Playstation while we are at it - at the same server network, and still split it up on like a Scandinavian, a European, two North American, an Australian and an Asian server - and we would not need to say goodbye to any friends.

facebook is not a time critical application where latency would matter.

True in a way, but I am pretty sure Facebook has a lower latency than ESO nonetheless.

thedavidventer

Depending on how/where your ISP routes your internet traffic, playing through a VPN could sometimes decrease the latency issues. Alternatively, using Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS could also make a difference.

I play from South Africa on the US mega server with 300ms ping and I'm not experiencing any of the issues that most seem to be complaining about. My abilities fire when activated. desynchronising is rare. Granted, I can't really PVP with such high latency but I'm doing just fine in PVE content. I even run as healer in group content and it's all good. I'm using the Cloudflare DNS and when my ISP is having issues, I use a VPN to play.

If you're having serious issues, try this: https://1.1.1.1/dns/
(Using the app is not necessary. Scroll down a bit on that page for manual DNS setup instructions)

technohic

When I monitor the connection ESO actually is using in my computer, it rarely gets above 90, while in game it will say 300+ all the way up to 999. I think the in game display is relying on some process that gets affected by the servers struggling.

Lysette

thedavidventer wrote: »

Depending on how/where your ISP routes your internet traffic, playing through a VPN could sometimes decrease the latency issues. Alternatively, using Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS could also make a difference.

I play from South Africa on the US mega server with 300ms ping and I'm not experiencing any of the issues that most seem to be complaining about. My abilities fire when activated. desynchronising is rare. Granted, I can't really PVP with such high latency but I'm doing just fine in PVE content. I even run as healer in group content and it's all good. I'm using the Cloudflare DNS and when my ISP is having issues, I use a VPN to play.

hn, this is about right - when we lived in somerset west near cape town, we had about 280ms to the na server and around 150ms to eu server - playing from australia is a different thing though.

CleymenZero

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Their strategy of single mega-servers is a failed one but they insist on following it, cause changing it would cost millions. And that's not sth shareholders would appreciate.

I love how people know how much it would cost. Other than fractionning their server capacity and splitting databases, there would be other costs but I wouldn't even venture an assumption and you doing so looks funny.

rfennell_ESO

For the problem to still exist to this day it's likely not the servers.

It's the game engine itself.

There was lag in dead times, there is lag in peak times of population.

The one thing they really can't change in the engine.