Magblade in graymore

fred4

Deathlord92 wrote: »

So how’s magblade performing In graymore for pvp can we still survive on heals only or do we have to go back to using shields?

As a cloaking NB, I feel healing is bad, but I also don't rely on it. Not the previous patch, not this patch. Your priority is to avoid damage and heal when you're safely back in cloak. There are situations where that doesn't work, for example when you are detected. In those cases I spam (Dampen + Healing Ward) x (repeat as necessary) quite a bit. I have tried playing without Dampen in the past. I invested quite heavily into stamina sustain. I've even worn Eternal Hunt. In the final analysis Dampen is better and that has not changed. The only caveat is, if you are adept with Shadow Image, then I think you may use that in place of the shield. It is not something I have extensively tried, though.

I've been a melee magblade going back to when 2H / resto was a thing, because you used Forward Momentum to clear roots and snares. My type of build has only become better and that includes this patch. Past improvements included the introduction of Caluurion, Zaan and Race Against Time, as well as the Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan. I am now wearing Snow Treaders. That said, I am talking inch by inch. I do not regard the class - or at least my build - as strong 1v1 or good at 1vX. At the end of the day I run a CP open world ganking spec and what I like is the utility of the class for solo play. Snow Treaders have made it stronger, though. This is most easily felt against mag DKs, but we're also talking about templar snares, Bombard spammers and so on.

kaithuzar

@fred4 you & I have pretty similar thoughts my friend! Snow treaders is the first item I went for! But after comparing with race against time, the damn skill is so overloaded it’s hard to pass up.
I may still use them but it may be for a specific build.

Moonsorrow

Well, you can think what you want - not matter to me, all i know and feel personally (my opinion, you can have yours haha) is that Magcro with Vampire and a proper build + player skills for such a build makes it:

Feel like what Magblade should feel like, as in:

- got more damage than Magblade, better burst.
- can play illusive due to Vampire, close enough. (and Cloak is made useless by most good enemies anyways)
- can actually do full 100% to zero ASSASSINATE type of murdering, even to groups. My bomblade does not hit so hard, even in meta setup.
- can play in a small-scale group or 2-4 AND be valuable to the group, giving it Major Vulnerability as a burst tool for ultidumps. Ever since the cast-time on even the Magblade Soul Siphon, cannot even give that reliably.. so when in groups as a Magblade i feel almost as "valuable" as a stamblade archer. I think even Archer brings more damage, utility and pressure on enemies lol.


What i mean is.. what Magcro on the setup can play with Stamcros and Stamdens in small-scale group and not be shamed about bringing it in, it can be played as efficiently as the staminas in it and on same melee range, and it can take same kind of beating.

And.. the staminas will also play by the same Balorgh, Clever Alchemist burst uptime, then LoS and try to get enemies to a chokepoint for the next burst window and ultidump. My Magcro can do the same, with them - without being anything behind on damage but in fact one that brings great synergy and at most fights having biggest damage and most kills.

So yeah, keep thinking Magcro is bad if you so like.

I am starting to think you guys are new or not so great you seem to think you are. Talking about "high mmr" bgs lol.. if think playing by Balorgh/CA window is just "ganking" and useless for everything else.

Because that is how the Stamina plays also

High mmr bgs are now when no actual teams just solo yolo roll of a dice, you get even in high mmr those 5 stars players who got their stars from morning pvdooring and their skill level is dying in 2 seconds on their streamer build Pet Sorc. But they want the Outfit style pages from Battlegrounds, so they play thousands of them - and thus are "high mmr", your mighty good players club proof of being the real deals - big shots of ESO pvp! YEAH!! *Mike Finnigan style shout* YEAH! High mmr bgs is where there are only good players and where builds are measured! YEAH! /s <---that means sarcasm btw.

So.. whatever.

Also, anyone who cannot do a burst from melee range (5m and under) and not even connect with Master`s Destro.. well, i guess you better go play something else, maybe stamina and try connect Dizzy (that also can be Dodged and is slower than Clench).. I can connect both Clench and Vampire spammable with ease. I also can connect Dizzy. Connecting skills is the first step on killing enemies. Or are you guys still on a level where you cannot kill someone who Dodges? Hint: if others can do it, so can you. Or can give excuses about it.

Best ones are those who cry about Msorc being weak and that cannot hit with anything. Well, surprisingly.. good Msorcs keep hitting a lot and getting a lot of kills on all forms of PVP. Same for Magcro, same for all magicka, but.. i feel Magblades damage, sustain & survivability is not as balanced (good) as others, if you want 1 high you sacrifice from others more than you do on other specs, due to Cloak.. that is made useless by most good enemies/groups. All good players i know, even if they love Magblade for its playstyle.. say it is like torture and gimping yourself when playing it against good opponents. Anyone jumping from Magblade to Msorc for example knows the feeling of how crippled spec you played in comparison.

I am just telling you, Magcro can do anything a Stamcro can do.

In this game one can adapt, come up with good builds on both mag & stam and have fun killing enemies. Or.. can spend time on forum crying how Stamina is soOOoooo much better than magicka.

My only sadness is that Magcro feels like a better Magblade than a Magblade..

And thus why my opinion on this threads subject. Magblade feels like just for permacloaking around in competitive scene, as in being outside of it. Magcro can heal better, damage better and even make better troll tank. So what can a Magblade do better than others anymore? Other than Cloak around and burn tents?

Nick_Balza

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=232067

I made this build for magblade with idea that in PvP, for instance, spell damage and penetration matters most of all. So, if I am usually cloaked/sneaking, attacking from cloak provides guaranteed crit and increased damage from vampirism. I don't have a need to run spell critical sets. On the other hand, sustain is terrible, but build is not designed for long fights. Combo with cloak + tether/grasp, cloak + elemental weapon, cloak + merciless resolve (cloak + gtfo).

Vietfox

Nick_Balza wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=232067

I made this build for magblade with idea that in PvP, for instance, spell damage and penetration matters most of all. So, if I am usually cloaked/sneaking, attacking from cloak provides guaranteed crit and increased damage from vampirism. I don't have a need to run spell critical sets. On the other hand, sustain is terrible, but build is not designed for long fights. Combo with cloak + tether/grasp, cloak + elemental weapon, cloak + merciless resolve (cloak + gtfo).

@Nick_Balza
If you are going to run Valkyn i advise you to drop Rattlecage and get Major Sorcery from Degeneration, it's better this way plus you'll have 2 DOTs available, increasing the chances to proc Valkyn.

Your health is too low even for a ganker, maybe you forgot to unlock some passives or Battle Spirit?

The effective spell damage is still low, should be +10K.

For a gank build you don't need to be Vamp stage 4, 2 is enough. You are increasing the cost of your non-vamp skills unnecessarily, plus you are not using any vamp skill to take advantage from stage 4.

Overall, even if your plan is to hit and run this build won't work.

fred4

kaithuzar wrote: »

@fred4 you & I have pretty similar thoughts my friend! Snow treaders is the first item I went for! But after comparing with race against time, the damn skill is so overloaded it’s hard to pass up.
I may still use them but it may be for a specific build.

When you can cast RAT at the perfect moment, it's great. I'm so squishy, though, that often the safest choice is to shield. Not RAT, not Cloak, not Fear. Cloak and Fear may fail, RAT fails to protect you until you're out of range. You live from GCD to GCD. Every second counts. Shadow Image works, if you have it up, sure. Not having to cast RAT is another option. I currently use an Immovability potion, Skooma Smuggler and Snow Treaders, when I gank someone. Full speed and complete hard and soft CC immunity. Skooma Smuggler is an old favorite and the 4-piece is not bad at all. Makes for a good back bar set to fit in with Snow Treaders. This makes RAT almost completely redundant, though I still like running it to save on potions, for the crit damage and when Skooma is down.

wheem_ESO

Moonsorrow wrote: »

I am starting to think you guys are new or not so great you seem to think you are. Talking about "high mmr" bgs lol.. if think playing by Balorgh/CA window is just "ganking" and useless for everything else.

Because that is how the Stamina plays also

High mmr bgs are now when no actual teams just solo yolo roll of a dice, you get even in high mmr those 5 stars players who got their stars from morning pvdooring and their skill level is dying in 2 seconds on their streamer build Pet Sorc. But they want the Outfit style pages from Battlegrounds, so they play thousands of them - and thus are "high mmr", your mighty good players club proof of being the real deals - big shots of ESO pvp! YEAH!! *Mike Finnigan style shout* YEAH! High mmr bgs is where there are only good players and where builds are measured! YEAH! /s <---that means sarcasm btw.

So.. whatever.

Actually, due to far lower AP gains in BGs compared to Cyrodiil, virtually all of the veteran Battlegrounds players on PC-NA are well below "5 star" PvP rank. Not every high MMR BG player is amazing at the game, but most also aren't bad either. Your Cyrodiil tactics aren't 100% applicable to high MMR BGs when people actually play as a team...the so-called "sweaty" matches. And the sweatier a game gets, the worse some classes - like offensive-oriented Magicka Necromancer - perform.

There is a small handful of decent-or-better Magicka Necromancers that play BGs on PC-NA, and most of them have other characters that they also play in the same environment. As far as I can tell, all of them typically perform better on the other classes, especially in the aforementioned "sweaty" games. It's hard to properly bomb people against Bombard spam, Charged Ice Staff spam, and just generally good players on Stamina builds + Mag Sorcs (and the occasional Mag DK, or Warden on an Ice-heavy build). Both Magicka Necromancer and Magicka Nightblade are pretty cruddy on damage builds in that environment.

That's not to say that it's literally impossible to ever do well on a Magicka Necromancer in BGs - I never claimed that. But you'll have to work harder, with a much lower margin for error, and ultimately still have inferior performance compared to virtually every Stamina build, or even most Magicka ones in most situations. There are also times where teammates are "spamming" other synergies and/or knockbacks, and essentially counter-play your burst window.

kaithuzar

IMO (not worth but I’ll still post), IF you’re going to play vamp, 2 things you MUST have are:

1) a fire resist glyph or dunmer as both prevent the burning status effect.

2) snow treaders, because a half of a second of being snared means you eat “more” dawnbreakers than if you weren’t snared or having to cast race against time at all.

Jeremy

Deathlord92 wrote: »

So how’s magblade performing In graymore for pvp can we still survive on heals only or do we have to go back to using shields?

Everyone keeps talking about how terrible Magicka Night Blades are now. But honestly I think they're in a better position than a lot of other classes are in terms of survivability. At least they can go invisible and have some nice speed boosts - which at least makes escape a possibility if your initial attack fails. Otherwise all you have is a second or two of kill or be killed.

Does their self healing suck as a DPS? Yeah... it does. But you can tote a restoration staff with you and use it after you have escaped behind a rock or something. And if you want to create a defensive Magicka Night Blade Dark Cloak coupled with Drain is about as good of self healing as you can expect these days. It certainly heals itself better than my Templar Tank can.

I'm not saying the class is strong. It's not. It dies like wet noodle, especially when outnumbered. But so does everything else. It may not be as strong in 1v1 and going head to head as some of the other classes are either (and it isn't). But their ability to withdraw from combat and use hit and run tactics make up for that somewhat.

Xarc

raistin87 wrote: »

It is trash tier class, especially in no-CP where magblade received huge indirect nerf due to Malacath's.
I recently rerolled into magsorc and boy he feeling that you can actually kill people again is amazing.

yeh there are so many sorcs in cyrodiil actually...

About magblades, i'm playing one in nocp pvp. It's absolutly not strong but nice damages.

Crash427

Jeremy wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

So how’s magblade performing In graymore for pvp can we still survive on heals only or do we have to go back to using shields?

Everyone keeps talking about how terrible Magicka Night Blades are now. But honestly I think they're in a better position than a lot of other classes are in terms of survivability. At least they can go invisible and have some nice speed boosts - which at least makes escape a possibility if your initial attack fails. Otherwise all you have is a second or two of kill or be killed.

Does their self healing suck as a DPS? Yeah... it does. But you can tote a restoration staff with you and use it after you have escaped behind a rock or something. And if you want to create a defensive Magicka Night Blade Dark Cloak coupled with Drain is about as good of self healing as you can expect these days. It certainly heals itself better than my Templar Tank can.

I'm not saying the class is strong. It's not. It dies like wet noodle, especially when outnumbered. But so does everything else. It may not be as strong in 1v1 and going head to head as some of the other classes are either (and it isn't). But their ability to withdraw from combat and use hit and run tactics make up for that somewhat.

If your magblade is self healing better than your templar that doesn't make me think magblade is strong, it makes me think something's wrong with your templar build.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

Vietfox

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

kaithuzar

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

kaithuzar

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

[snip] people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

xI_The_Owl_Ix

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

[snip] people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

No I dont, the uesp build editor doesnt count penetration bonuses you put on the enemy (breach/fracture) into the calculation.

Also fyi you get 4884 spell penetration from light armor passives, its not hard to get another 4-5k from CP. Im not sure why you think 10k pen without breach is a lot. I can guarantee you its around what most light armor mag classes have. The 22k spell pen above was also without major breach but I didnt mention it bc I have no skill equipped on that build that applies it. (I was using balorgh tho).

[snip]


And again I wont tell you which sets are being used just to not encourage cancer builds in PvP. There will be enough snipe gankers as there is.

Btw I can glady recreate this build tomorrow and post the max resources and recovery, if you want to.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

kaithuzar

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

[snip] people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

No I dont, the uesp build editor doesnt count penetration bonuses you put on the enemy (breach/fracture) into the calculation.

Also fyi you get 4884 spell penetration from light armor passives, its not hard to get another 4-5k from CP. Im not sure why you think 10k pen without breach is a lot. I can guarantee you its around what most light armor mag classes have. The 22k spell pen above was also without major breach but I didnt mention it bc I have no skill equipped on that build that applies it. (I was using balorgh tho).

[snip]


And again I wont tell you which sets are being used just to not encourage cancer builds in PvP. There will be enough snipe gankers as there is.

Btw I can glady recreate this build tomorrow and post the max resources and recovery, if you want to.

I don’t think 10 K penetration is a lot I think 21,984 which is posted in one of your previous screenshots is a lot .

I understand exactly how much penetration the light armor pass of grants and exactly how much max CP into penetration grants as well. Now that you understand I’m well-informed, my previous comments above still stand.

Rakdos

Deathlord92 wrote: »

So how’s magblade performing In graymore for pvp can we still survive on heals only or do we have to go back to using shields?

I only do bg, and I think magblade doing well in this patch. Nightblade in general is a very aggressive class and do not rely on in-combat healing too much. if something goes wrong, you cloak away, hide and heal up. the moving speed and damage shield is more important than healing in terms of magblade survivability.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bS3N5xhoRJ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u4jUbPUapU

UrbanMonk

Magblade ganking if anything has become even stronger this patch. Balorgh is giving up insane penetration and even though it lost half the spell damage which would be 500spd at 500 ulti cost, was retrieved back with 300 SPD from vampire passives and a minor change in glyph on weapon. Instead of shock now I'm using Weapon Damage enchant and offbalance comes from concealed weapon which previously I had only for movement speed but now it's part of my gank rotation for stunn and offbalance. So all in all, magblade gankers lost nothing but became even more strong.

On the other hand , for the players who dont play gank builds, nothing much changed. As a class Nightblade is still severely lacking the passives which are easily available to others such as warden or necro.

For the gank in NoCP my build is at 7k+ SPD with 20k+ pen, ofc with perfect conditions met, but it's an overkill. And with 14 k health I see no issues as a ganker, but yes if detect pot comes on, start looking for respawn point.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

When honest people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

No I dont, the uesp build editor doesnt count penetration bonuses you put on the enemy (breach/fracture) into the calculation.

Also fyi you get 4884 spell penetration from light armor passives, its not hard to get another 4-5k from CP. Im not sure why you think 10k pen without breach is a lot. I can guarantee you its around what most light armor mag classes have. The 22k spell pen above was also without major breach but I didnt mention it bc I have no skill equipped on that build that applies it. (I was using balorgh tho).

[snip]


And again I wont tell you which sets are being used just to not encourage cancer builds in PvP. There will be enough snipe gankers as there is.

Btw I can glady recreate this build tomorrow and post the max resources and recovery, if you want to.

I don’t think 10 K penetration is a lot I think 21,984 which is posted in one of your previous screenshots is a lot .

I understand exactly how much penetration the light armor pass of grants and exactly how much max CP into penetration grants as well. Now that you understand I’m well-informed, my previous comments above still stand.

[snip]

4884 from light armor
5000 from cp
500*23 = 11500 from balorgh

Getting 20k+ penetration isnt that hard anymore in graymoor.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

kaithuzar

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

When honest people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

No I dont, the uesp build editor doesnt count penetration bonuses you put on the enemy (breach/fracture) into the calculation.

Also fyi you get 4884 spell penetration from light armor passives, its not hard to get another 4-5k from CP. Im not sure why you think 10k pen without breach is a lot. I can guarantee you its around what most light armor mag classes have. The 22k spell pen above was also without major breach but I didnt mention it bc I have no skill equipped on that build that applies it. (I was using balorgh tho).

[snip]


And again I wont tell you which sets are being used just to not encourage cancer builds in PvP. There will be enough snipe gankers as there is.

Btw I can glady recreate this build tomorrow and post the max resources and recovery, if you want to.

I don’t think 10 K penetration is a lot I think 21,984 which is posted in one of your previous screenshots is a lot .

I understand exactly how much penetration the light armor pass of grants and exactly how much max CP into penetration grants as well. Now that you understand I’m well-informed, my previous comments above still stand.

[snip]

4884 from light armor
5000 from cp
500*23 = 11500 from balorgh

Getting 20k+ penetration isnt that hard anymore in graymoor.

That’s because you’re honing in on specifically the 20 K spell penetration rather than the full context of what I originally stated which was 20 K spell penetration plus over 6K spell damage plus over 2K magic recovery ... [snip]

Don’t worry about it dude you don’t wanna reveal it, all good

[Edited to remove Baiting]

exeeter702

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

When honest people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

No I dont, the uesp build editor doesnt count penetration bonuses you put on the enemy (breach/fracture) into the calculation.

Also fyi you get 4884 spell penetration from light armor passives, its not hard to get another 4-5k from CP. Im not sure why you think 10k pen without breach is a lot. I can guarantee you its around what most light armor mag classes have. The 22k spell pen above was also without major breach but I didnt mention it bc I have no skill equipped on that build that applies it. (I was using balorgh tho).

[snip]


And again I wont tell you which sets are being used just to not encourage cancer builds in PvP. There will be enough snipe gankers as there is.

Btw I can glady recreate this build tomorrow and post the max resources and recovery, if you want to.

I don’t think 10 K penetration is a lot I think 21,984 which is posted in one of your previous screenshots is a lot .

I understand exactly how much penetration the light armor pass of grants and exactly how much max CP into penetration grants as well. Now that you understand I’m well-informed, my previous comments above still stand.

[snip]

4884 from light armor
5000 from cp
500*23 = 11500 from balorgh

Getting 20k+ penetration isnt that hard anymore in graymoor.

The entire point is not the 20k by itself. It's the 20k pen along side 6k sd and 2.5k recovery.

There is no secret sauce to theory crafting where you can cleverly sidestep the stat budget that zos puts into place. Your build is not worth keeping secret because it's not special to begin with most assuredly. You have specifc proc conditions enabled among other stars aligning to make those stats possible, for what undoubtedly has a weakness that most dont consider a worthwhile trade in pvp.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

exeeter702 wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

If you’re using clever alchemist a few patches ago that was changed to require you being in combat first.
Secondly, balorg doesn’t proc until after your first hit.
Can you even cloak more than twice? There is no mention of max stats or regen.
I bet you melt a second someone pops a detection potion there’s no way you can have any sort of survivability in that set up.

Im not using clever alchemist, I have 36k magicka, and 20k HP with 2,4k mag recovery.

However Im not going to share the build, I dont want to encourage "cancer" one shot builds.

Balorgh also procs on the ulti itself fyi. I dont melt when someone pops a detect pot because I have a self heal, shield and shade on my backbar.

The issue with magblade is mostly due to the class mechanics, meaning every single attack can be 100% mitigated by dodging, everything having a very long travel time/slow projectile speed, ultis having a cast time, cloak being broken by single target abilities.
There are also skills that defintly need a looking at namely being swallow soul, concealed weapon, mass hysteria, etc.

---

Vietfox wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people arent able to create gank builds for magblade. With the changes to vamp and balorgh its insanely easy to play an overpowered ganker.



That being said, not everybody wants to play a ganker and ZoS needs to stop pushing NB as the "gank" class. Some people like myself enjoy playing a brawler and the NB class falls short in that area.

The problem has nothing to do with not being able to create gank builds, quite the opposite actually. As you mentioned, most magblades would like to do something else than ganking.
Btw, getting my ulti to 500 to reach those numbers just to gank one person seems boring to me.

You can have a pretty much equal devistating build without balorgh/monster set. That was just the max dmg/pen build I could come up with quickly.



No monster set, 5k pen also missing from major breach.

[snip]
There is mathematically no way to have over 6K spell damage with over 20 K pen and over 2K magic recovery; without there being some type of special proc, particular ability cast, etc...

When honest people talk about builds they talk about adding specific stats from specific sets they’re not counting penetration from mark target or the elemental skill you put on the opponent but I can almost guarantee you’re counting one of those for your penetration statistic. [snip]

No I dont, the uesp build editor doesnt count penetration bonuses you put on the enemy (breach/fracture) into the calculation.

Also fyi you get 4884 spell penetration from light armor passives, its not hard to get another 4-5k from CP. Im not sure why you think 10k pen without breach is a lot. I can guarantee you its around what most light armor mag classes have. The 22k spell pen above was also without major breach but I didnt mention it bc I have no skill equipped on that build that applies it. (I was using balorgh tho).

[snip]

And again I wont tell you which sets are being used just to not encourage cancer builds in PvP. There will be enough snipe gankers as there is.

Btw I can glady recreate this build tomorrow and post the max resources and recovery, if you want to.

I don’t think 10 K penetration is a lot I think 21,984 which is posted in one of your previous screenshots is a lot .

I understand exactly how much penetration the light armor pass of grants and exactly how much max CP into penetration grants as well. Now that you understand I’m well-informed, my previous comments above still stand.

[snip]

4884 from light armor
5000 from cp
500*23 = 11500 from balorgh

Getting 20k+ penetration isnt that hard anymore in graymoor.

The entire point is not the 20k by itself. It's the 20k pen along side 6k sd and 2.5k recovery.

There is no secret sauce to theory crafting where you can cleverly sidestep the stat budget that zos puts into place. Your build is not worth keeping secret because it's not special to begin with most assuredly. You have specifc proc conditions enabled among other stars aligning to make those stats possible, for what undoubtedly has a weakness that most dont consider a worthwhile trade in pvp.

Alright then. I can one-shot people pre-greymoor, I think I will do fine in greymoor with the new balorgh and vamp skills. And no, it has only one trade off and most people dont mind that trade off anyway and its probably one of the most used sets in PvP.

mav1234

Tharassian Stranglers could get you to those numbers.

Kaysha

mav1234 wrote: »

Tharassian Stranglers could get you to those numbers.

Not needed. You can get over 8k without them and without clever alchemist

mav1234

Kaysha wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Tharassian Stranglers could get you to those numbers.

Not needed. You can get over 8k without them and without clever alchemist

With 2.5k recovery and 21k spell pen? Please share, lol

Kaysha

There is nothing fancy to share. Just balorgh and Vampire.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we had to edit several posts for violating the Community Rules, mostly for Baiting. We understand that while discussing things you may become annoyed or frustrated with other users however, please ensure that your discussion remains civil, constructive and within the rules.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

Deathlord92

By now everyone knows magblade needs a buff but we are forced to use a shield again in graymoor that takes away a skill slot 😭 zos please put major sorcery on siphon strikes please 🙏