Rude behavior in Dungeons (through dungeon finder)

Grandchamp1989

Anyone else noticed this passive aggressive behavior and (in a few instances) even aggresive behavior?

I have..

It is no way near as bad as other games, jeebus in games like Cod, Overwatch, LoL etc people treat each other like absolute garbage. Threats, insults, curses and bullying is an everyday thing (unfortunately).

Eso... Eso is different. Very broad community some very mature while others well.. they're learning.

Mostly what I see is some people want to speed run while others want to stay and loot - maybe they haven't gotten the quest. This is a conflict of interest and its fine as long as people aren't a D*** about it.

Usually when people insist on having it "their" way there's the usual suspects:

1) I see the tank completely ditching the group to make a straight line to the end boss, causing everyone else to wipe on the massive hordes he pulls. Doesn't care if the DD's are level 15 and learning.

2) Or the overconfident DD's who start to run infront of the tank, pulling left and right but doesn't have the juice to follow up on it so everyone ends up in a crappy situation.

3-4) Then there's the whole "fake tanks with low DPS problem" or the healer who rather DPS the entire Dungeon.

But today... Today I witnessed something next level.

My GF qued up for a normal pug dungeon and got an absolute toxic lvl 500cp+ tank on the team. She was healer and their DDs was around lvl 15-18. Low level people learning the game.

He does the usual crappy tank behavior of sprinting into the nearest boss with 40 adds behind him and then he proceeded to trash talk.

Said how crap they were, laughing at them in chat.. Then he said "wanna do it again" and he reset the boss before they could kill him so they had to do it again before he insulted them one final time and left.

Luckily I have a tank I main, and joined the dungeon and it was an easy clearence. There was absolutely no reason for that behavior.

Don't get me wrong I'm no saint here, I have joined PUG dungeons and seen them struggling to kill adds, and left rather than doing a 1½ hour dungeon run.

But why insult and bully people? We're all learning and normal dungeons should be a place where we get to experience the game and its mechanic, without fear of being trash talked and humiliated.

Maybe on the next run when our patience run low from all the bad things in this scary world we can all take a deep breath and get the best out of a bad situation. For all our sake. It's an MMO afterall - its strongest asset in not always the gameplay, it's the community behind it.

Grey17

ESO used to be the "friendly" MMO but unfortunately like you, I am seeing more and more of this of late.

redspecter23

Never have any expectation of pugs and only use them when absolutely necessary, typically for amusement value. You will have a far better time finding 3 likeminded friends, grouping up and going at your own pace. You are VERY unlikely to find 3 other people who all share the same play style in a pug. Sure, sometimes you can have fun and enjoy yourself, but we all know the definition of insanity right? Doing this to yourself over and over expecting something different is not a reasonable expectation. Yes, it would be fantastic if more people adjusted one way or the other to play more in line with the randoms, but it will never happen.

I do like how you outline a potential issue on both sides. It's not necessarily that one side is right or wrong. Play styles are different, leading to conflict. When someone takes that to the next level and uses it to grief or troll intentionally, that is just something I can't agree with most times.

Please, do yourself a favor and try to find friends or a guild with people sharing your play style. You will have less stress and enjoy yourself more. I've had great success meeting people that I really enjoy playing with. Yes, sometimes I want to do a dungeon but my friends aren't available. I usually find something else to do and try again later rather than subject myself to random.

hiyde

I don't at all doubt what you are saying, OP.
As a noob to groupfinder pugs, I've had a better experience so far.

I dedicate most of in-game time to running a guild and solo PvE stuff/farming.
With the arrival of antiquities, I found myself in need of a couple dozen more skill points and the only pools left to fish in were storyline quests and Dungeons. And Valaste. (Don't worry, I'm coming, V!)

Rather than pester guildies during the first week of a DLC launch, I put on my Big Boy Pants, took a deep breath and clicked "Join Queue".

I've run about 10 so far. Each has had a varying level of "speed run" to it but never anything more than the group can handle. Folks were either quiet or pleasant. No negativity. If I lagged behind now and then (to advance a quest), most of the time they wouldn't engage the next boss and often would head back my way to see what was up. To be clear, I moved as quick as I could, not bothering with quest dialogue or hunting down chests (unless the group was doing it). While it was new to me, I get that for most folks, they've done it a million times and just wanna get their daily prize as quick as possible. For those that want a "stop and smell the roses" run, I wouldn't suggest Group Finder.

Each run has been successful and I (amazingly) have yet to die.

If I had one complaint, I wish whoever gets Group Leader wouldn't disband the group when it's over so that I have time to circle back to loot things or explore a bit. (I imagine in some cases it could be 3 friends that I happened to join in with but at least say something first?).

Also, I wish the notification would pop up when i'm excavating. I've worked around it by bringing the chat window up on a "system info only" tab but I felt bad missing the "join" window and delaying 3 other people from starting. Oops that's two complaints.

Overall, I've been pleasantly surprised at Group Finder and the behavior of players so far. I know. It's only a handful of runs but so far so good!

-H

VaranisArano

Toxic people going to be toxic. Things have improved a lot from the days when we got level 10s forced into normal White Gold Tower.

Fortunately, most low level groups I get queued with are absolutely lovely. And its a real privilege when I get someone doing a dungeon for the very first time. Every group I've been with when they say that has gone out of their way to make it a good experience.

gatekeeper13

We had a DD in Arx Corinium yesterday who was sprinting in front of me (tank), leaving us to deal with the trash mobs he pulled. He got insta kicked.

Bigger problem than people with the mentioned behavior, are those "teammates" who reject your kick vote and let them stay in group. Has happened many times and forced me to leave group.

UGotBenched91

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Anyone else noticed this passive aggressive behavior and (in a few instances) even aggresive behavior?

I have..

It is no way near as bad as other games, jeebus in games like Cod, Overwatch, LoL etc people treat each other like absolute garbage. Threats, insults, curses and bullying is an everyday thing (unfortunately).

Eso... Eso is different. Very broad community some very mature while others well.. they're learning.

Mostly what I see is some people want to speed run while others want to stay and loot - maybe they haven't gotten the quest. This is a conflict of interest and its fine as long as people aren't a D*** about it.

Usually when people insist on having it "their" way there's the usual suspects:

1) I see the tank completely ditching the group to make a straight line to the end boss, causing everyone else to wipe on the massive hordes he pulls. Doesn't care if the DD's are level 15 and learning.

2) Or the overconfident DD's who start to run infront of the tank, pulling left and right but doesn't have the juice to follow up on it so everyone ends up in a crappy situation.

3-4) Then there's the whole "fake tanks with low DPS problem" or the healer who rather DPS the entire Dungeon.

But today... Today I witnessed something next level.

My GF qued up for a normal pug dungeon and got an absolute toxic lvl 500cp+ tank on the team. She was healer and their DDs was around lvl 15-18. Low level people learning the game.

He does the usual crappy tank behavior of sprinting into the nearest boss with 40 adds behind him and then he proceeded to trash talk.

Said how crap they were, laughing at them in chat.. Then he said "wanna do it again" and he reset the boss before they could kill him so they had to do it again before he insulted them one final time and left.

Luckily I have a tank I main, and joined the dungeon and it was an easy clearence. There was absolutely no reason for that behavior.

Don't get me wrong I'm no saint here, I have joined PUG dungeons and seen them struggling to kill adds, and left rather than doing a 1½ hour dungeon run.

But why insult and bully people? We're all learning and normal dungeons should be a place where we get to experience the game and its mechanic, without fear of being trash talked and humiliated.

Maybe on the next run when our patience run low from all the bad things in this scary world we can all take a deep breath and get the best out of a bad situation. For all our sake. It's an MMO afterall - its strongest asset in not always the gameplay, it's the community behind it.

Sad to hear about that experience. I’ve gotten all good experiences on PC so far and I’m hoping it continues.

On Xbox I had one negative experience that stuck out. I was doing a vet dungeon for MH. The other players aren’t in voice chat so I type it’s my first run. No response. We do find one of the later bosses Has a nasty 1 hit kill mechanic. I did to it twice and type my apology that I’m not sure how to tell when he does it to prevent it. No response. Gradually I understand it and we kill boss.

Then I get kicked from group. I then get a message telling me it’s not their responsibility to carry me through the dungeon. I never asked for a carry. If they would’ve simply responded to my question it could have been avoided.

idk

Overwhelmingly forming a group via your guilds and even zone is much better than having a computer find players to fill a group for you.

If you are a player that is learning the game guildmates are often much more reasonable and forgiving to run with than total strangers. If you are looking for a speed run or a run to enjoy the quests you will more likely find the group by forming it your self from guilds. If you find a jerk you can tell your guild leader that this is how they behaved and leadership can determine if that is the type of person they want in the guild (think about why so many jerks use GF).

It has been a long time that I have queued with less than 3 people from my guilds. With most dungeons, we can carry someone who is learning how to play. If we get a jerk we can kick them just as easily.


Funny story, we had a jerk that would sprint ahead and pull trash and even a boss. After nicely asking him a few times to stop starting the pulls and eventually just letting him die the jerk tried to kick me, lol. We were already talking about kicking them so we figured it was good timing. They rage whispered for awhile. I guess they finally figured out I did not care what they had to say and stopped whispering me. It was funny.

Taleof2Cities

VaranisArano wrote: »

Toxic people going to be toxic.

^This.^

Ran into some elitists the other day in vet Depths of Malatar.

Long story short ... don't use the dungeon finder if you need a specific outcome from the dungeon. Find a pre-made group instead.

daemonor

Well sometimes it gets on your nerves, we're all human after all. I was making a group for fanglair heroic mode in general chat and after first boss i noticed our sorc dps is hard casting crystal frags and doing about 10-15k dps on average on boss fight and I asked him, how can you get to 810cp and have the audacity to que for something like fanglair hm when you can't even break light attack spam rotation level dps? He replied nothing, the tank was positive and I was like allright, if you're all so positive let's endure this. We made it to last boss of course but we failed miserably at phase 2 because things were just dying too slow. After about 2 hours of wiping he left and I said something along the lines "don't join for content where you obviously can't pull your own weight". Was I an ***? Probably. But was he an *** for expecting a carry and wasting 3 other peoples' time? Id argue yes. After he left i asked a friend whos better than me to help and we got it down on second try.

kichwas

I think the title of 'most friendly MMO' belongs to FFXIV - at least BEFORE you enter 'savage raiding' (the equivalent of Veteran Trials I believe). Savage raiding flips the norm and is an extremely rude/hostile place. Am told the same can be said of Guild Wars 2 and it's normal vs. raiding community.

But ESO is still on the side of 'friendlier' from what I have observed...

Or at least... neutral.

Even at 'lower tiers of content' I notice some common jerk behavior here - like racing past someone to beat them to a gathering node or chest. That's extremely common here but is also a solid jerk move.

As far as people being rude in dungeons... I haven't seen it to much here. A few instances. I think it's likely to go up around times when the game is having major issues (like the rough expansion launch), and times when there is a large influx of new players from more hostile MMOs like WoW (where the general community is toxic but the heroic and higher raiding community is friendly) or others.

ESO is a successful game - and most other MMOs are in fail-mode right now... so people are going to come here, and they're going to bring the 'culture' of their old MMO with them. Some of that will be good, some of it will be bad.

xXMeowMeowXx

Meh, report, kick, move on....

Don’t feed the trolls, starve them

“May bright moons and warms sands guide your path” =^^=

kongkim

Its very standard today, both in pve and pvp.

NocturnalSonata

Some people have as about as much charisma as wilted lettuce, so to make up for it they add some toxic spice. Just ignore and move on. The world is filled with toxic lettuce, and most of what OP is describing falls into that

It would be nice (although it would probably not work) to pair low lvl with low lvl on normal. I know lvl itself is not an indicator of skill, but there is no way a new player can get to enjoy anything when a high dps dd just steamrolls everything. I remember doing MHK while lvling a tank , every player in there was on the low side, it took absolutely forever, but was fun and the other players were clearly having a blast. If I was a dd, the same experience would not have occurred, most mechanics would be skipped and everything pretty much nuked.

Vet is an entirely different environment, in non HM dlc ( and even a lot of HM) a bad dd can be carried, to some extent a bad healer can also be carried. but if there is too much sub-par then its impossible. So lack of patience or understanding is a fast track to toxic behavior. But, in all fairness, a lot of these players have absolutely 0 business being there in the first place. Not that it is their fault given the random queue - i am not condoning toxic behavior, just suggesting that sometimes what appears as toxic behavior is just someones unwillingness to grind out 2 hrs and carry dead weight on something that they normally do in around 30 mins.

Katheriah

Theory: the tank you're talking about is too impatient for PUG, but also too m*ch of a butthole to have friends to do dungs with.

I'll be honest: I have no patience for teaching dungeons when I just want to do pledges. Zero patience. Solution: I don't PUG. Like EVER. I only group up with friends or with people from my PvE guild.

Elvenheart

I know this is a slightly different topic, but I’ve always wished that after it says “Activity Complete!” and team members start saying their farewells and leaving that it wouldn’t automatically kick you out of the dungeon when you are no longer in a group. There are so many things I would like to look at and take my time to go through and see afterwards, like finding the chest or gathering the resources that we miss along the way.

Dusk_Coven

This sort of thing is why SOLO Dungeons are more and more relevant.
In this particular case: A lot of people just want to do their own thing and don't really care about others. So they can go do their thing on their own in a solo dungeon.

kichwas wrote: »

I think the title of 'most friendly MMO' belongs to FFXIV - at least BEFORE you enter 'savage raiding' (the equivalent of Veteran Trials I believe). Savage raiding flips the norm and is an extremely rude/hostile place.

Because FFXIV actually has live GMs who respond within 24 hours usually and will hand out warnings even for foul language.
AND many trials (that are not part of the main story questline) are stupid hard even at the normal level when they first come out. Most people just wait for a level increase and do it level unsynced through party finder. Then people usually breeze through it and have a great time, until some idiot dps thinks they can just out-dps the one-shot mechanics.

In ESO, they just cut-and-paste a "put them on ignore" message when you report anything.

Thechuckage

A lot of this boils down to communication. No guarantees of course, but a simple "First time here" or "on quest" is enough for most players to stop before bosses and give a quick rundown of the fight. Granted when this happens on a Vet dungeon and the player is 300+ CP, does tend to raise an eyebrow. Seems like at least doing a normal run first so you can see the fights, but some just like to do it live. *shug*

My problem is with those (mostly DDs) who DONT know the fight, sometimes even saying that at the start and STILL deciding to pull the boss. More than once while an explanation was being typed out. Best options are generally to just kick or drop group. Reasoning with many of those player is a lesson in insanity.

Icy_Waffles

People with experience get extremely frustrated with people who que for group content without having the ability to complete it. It’s extremely frustrating.

Dusk_Coven

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

He does the usual crappy tank behavior of sprinting into the nearest boss with 40 adds behind him and then he proceeded to trash talk.

Said how crap they were, laughing at them in chat.. Then he said "wanna do it again" and he reset the boss before they could kill him so they had to do it again before he insulted them one final time and left.

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

People with experience get extremely frustrated with people who que for group content without having the ability to complete it. It’s extremely frustrating.

Sure there are but it's not the case that the OP mentioned. The toxic player probably could solo the dungeon, so why bother queueing -- and then aborting the run (so even they didn't get any random dungeon bonus and wasted their time on a partial run) -- if not to just show up and grief other players with his elitist attitude?

Katheriah wrote: »

Theory: the tank you're talking about is too impatient for PUG

He's not impatient for a pug since he raced ahead and was doing fine AND aborted his own run by leaving on his own.
He could have kept going and cleared the dungeon and then left. Instead he just saw an opportunity to grief newbies and felt that was a good enough return for accepting a deserter timeout penalty.

Honestly it's like there are players out there deliberately looking for ways to grief other players. Like https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520202/craglorn-instance-has-vso-poison-all-around

If ZOS can't get rid of them from the game entirely, Solo modes are the next best option. If you can't get a full team of friends or guildmates, just go solo and completely avoid toxic people. Then people can more aggressively kick toxic people and fake roles from a team because everyone would have a recourse for their dungeons -- going solo in solo mode.

FrancisCrawford

I suspect much of the toxicity is specific to RANDOM dungeons. The only reason to do a random dungeon is that you want to get rewards (XP or otherwise) in an efficient manner. So disagreements about how efficient to be bubble up.

That said -- I guess even if you queue for a specific dungeon, your groupmates may have signed up for random. This would be especially true if your dungeon isn't the day's pledge or something like that.

Kurat

Rude/toxic behavior in pug dungeons usually happens when 2 or more bad players end up in the same instance.
I pug vet dlc dungeons alot and often see people there who really are not ready or skilled for them. If only 1 of 4 is new/inexperienced/bad then there's no problem to finish the dungeon. When I queue as dps I often end up doing 70-80% of group dps. So what. Why should I get mad at the other dps or kick him if stuff dies and we can finish the dungeon. Sure it takes longer but who pugs and expects to get any achievements. If you are going for achievements then form your own group.
Same goes for other roles. Even if tank or healer is bad the rest of the group should be able to compensate.
Most people who rage on others are not that great themselves.

Malthorne

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This sort of thing is why SOLO Dungeons are more and more relevant.
In this particular case: A lot of people just want to do their own thing and don't really care about others. So they can go do their thing on their own in a solo dungeon.

kichwas wrote: »

I think the title of 'most friendly MMO' belongs to FFXIV - at least BEFORE you enter 'savage raiding' (the equivalent of Veteran Trials I believe). Savage raiding flips the norm and is an extremely rude/hostile place.

Because FFXIV actually has live GMs who respond within 24 hours usually and will hand out warnings even for foul language.
AND many trials (that are not part of the main story questline) are stupid hard even at the normal level when they first come out. Most people just wait for a level increase and do it level unsynced through party finder. Then people usually breeze through it and have a great time, until some idiot dps thinks they can just out-dps the one-shot mechanics.

In ESO, they just cut-and-paste a "put them on ignore" message when you report anything.

Big true. I’ve seen someone in my FC get reported and banned in an instance for being rude. Ive also seen screenshots on discord of Free Company members who were placed in a dungeon cell alone with a GM. They were scolded and had to plead their case or promise to behave, lol. FFXIV does not play around.

D0PAMINE

That's pretty gross behavior. Although I'm not as active on ESO anymore, I never minded helping players learn and clear content. A tank running Alkosh/Torugs/Powerful Assault and using Warhorn is more than enough to help lowbies clear base dungeons.

Fawn4287

I am in no way close to a good DPS but I am more than capable of holding my own in any vet dungeon content, however there is nothing more frustrating than group queuing for 20 minutes or having to change roles, then to get in to a vet DLC dungeon with someone who has ticked DPS, has 30K health, no food on and is heavy attacking with a lightning staff. These people then complain about “elitists” who are in reality just players capable of completing content and want other capable players to do the same. Even worse these players are often accompanied by their “tank” friend who insists their friend is a capable DPS, then proceeds to not taunt ads, not talons ads, not interrupt or really perform any role of the tank other than taunt and hold block on the boss.

These people will share the monster helm in chat as some sort of proof they are capable, when really its just their proof they turned a dungeon into an absolute punish for another prior group. Dungeon finder needs to add a player rating system which allows you to rate players and when you hit a certain level of negative ratings you are limited by the content you can activity finder for, the 250 cp who continually searches for vet content they have no hope of holding their own in shouldn’t be allowed to keep coming back to the same group or keep forcing a new group to have to keep replacing a player, purely because they refuse ro accept they aren’t capable. People will cry “stop being mean!!” But being kind doesn’t make vet hard mode bosses any easier.

Elwendryll

Are toxic people that common?
I don't often run pugs, when I do it's mostly because I explicitly want to get grouped with random peoples for the extra challenge. I often find struggling new players, some overly confident DDs, people barely speaking English (an issue when they don't know the mechanics ).

But I also encountered very nice people, I run a guild, full of lovely and talented people, and a decent number of them were met through the group finder, because they were doing very well and were very positive/willing to learn.

People become toxic mostly when the group is struggling. I guess the more experienced you get, the less you have runs going badly, except if you're solo queuing as a tank.