Simmering Frenzy & Morphs

regime211

why the change to adding the 20% health reduction?

Chilly-McFreeze

You mean the increased cost per second?

So that you cannot have it run all the time, even with good selfheals. The devs want it as kinda short term buff for bursty parts rather than constant +600 wpn dmg.

ValueDrift

As it was it was probably a bit too directly anti-healer, you could have made good builds that keep it up all the time and can still survive. So that would have been one more step in favor of tank + 3 dps in dungeons. So I can understand why they took it out, but rather than just nerfing it so we won't use it, I wish they'd completely redesign it to do something we can use.

Vevvev

As others have stated its so you cannot leave it active forever. Shame though because on the PTS before the 6.0.3 patch my healer could use it quite effectively to make up for the increased cost of skills. Didn't have to cast as many heals to get the same effect but now its a suicide attempt unless you pop it for a split second to release an ultimate before turning it off. I honestly don't see how anyone could use the Shimmering Frenzy morph since after its done draining your health it leaves you with nothing. At least Sated fury is kind enough to give some health back.

regime211

Vevvev wrote: »

As others have stated its so you cannot leave it active forever. Shame though because on the PTS before the 6.0.3 patch my healer could use it quite effectively to make up for the increased cost of skills. Didn't have to cast as many heals to get the same effect but now its a suicide attempt unless you pop it for a split second to release an ultimate before turning it off. I honestly don't see how anyone could use the Shimmering Frenzy morph since after its done draining your health it leaves you with nothing. At least Sated fury is kind enough to give some health back.

Yeah i definitely understand i managed to actually figure out a way to use it without it draining my health crazy

Gabrielzavadski

Most vampire skills are redundant... actually, they are a inferior version of some class skills, like Drain Vigor for stamina classes, a 2h heavy atack with Siphonning Attacks gives more Health, Stamina and Damage, also it has 0 cost, compared to Vigor Drain, Eviscerate is only useful for magicka builds, Blood Frenzy is barely usable in any builds. Then we have Mist Form, Mesmerize and Blood Scion, the most "useful" skills, although with limited situations utility.

The passives though, are useful, even with the loss of regeneration, and the 3% nerf from Undeath. The class cost increase are negligible, even with Vampire Lord SET... but fire is dangerous.

P.S. Prismatic Skill Cost Reduction for jewelry, plus Vampire Lord set, at stage 4, can decrease Blood Frenzy up to 664 hp/s cost...

Austinseph1

They made it good for ganking in Cyrodiil but a waste of bar space anywhere else.youre better off running a strong dot for more consistent damage.

Pauls

Greymoor update moved vamps down from useful level to garbage/RP level

MashmalloMan

Gabrielzavadski wrote: »

The passives though, are useful, even with the loss of regeneration, and the 3% nerf from Undeath. The class cost increase are negligible, even with Vampire Lord SET... but fire is dangerous.

Undeath was buffed, not nerfed. Yes the 33% is now 30%, but it scales from 0-100% hp instead of 0-50% hp effectively doubling it's power. You're going to get 15% dmg reduction at 50% hp where previously it only began to kick in. In every scenario, even at 20% hp, you get more from the new passive. Previously you'd get 19.8% dmg reduction, now at 20% hp you will have 24% dmg reduction.

Also, fire is less damage now, stage 3 is 13% instead of 20%, Undeath is a huge selling factor of the skill line.

Imo, if I didn't use my stamina toon for both PVP and PVE, I would go Stage 3 for that passive and Blood Scion alone. I look at it as defensive set bonus similar to New Moon, would I trade +8% cost, -60% hp regen and +13% fire damage for a set of Pariah on steroids? Yes I would. Pariah scales from 0-100% hp and gives about 16% dmg reduction (11K armor), for all those negatives, double the effectiveness of Pariah (maybe even close to tripple since it can't be penetrated), I''d say the trade is worth it.

Now for people who actually use mist form for the +300 damage, maybe the spammable to save on sustain, maybe some sneaking from stage 1.. the trade makes even more sense.

But yes, the skills are kinda meh. I don't like the toggle at all, I think it's a poor design and hurts healers, kinda happy it's only useful for burst now instead of forcing all pve builds to use it.

Gabrielzavadski

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Gabrielzavadski wrote: »

The passives though, are useful, even with the loss of regeneration, and the 3% nerf from Undeath. The class cost increase are negligible, even with Vampire Lord SET... but fire is dangerous.

Undeath was buffed, not nerfed. Yes the 33% is now 30%, but it scales from 0-100% hp instead of 0-50% hp effectively doubling it's power. You're going to get 15% dmg reduction at 50% hp where previously it only began to kick in. In every scenario, even at 20% hp, you get more from the new passive. Previously you'd get 19.8% dmg reduction, now at 20% hp you will have 24% dmg reduction.

Yeah sorry, forgot about Undeath being 100% now, but fire damage at stage 4 still high (should be anyway), and skill cost increase.

And yes, its viable only on non-dungeon/trial PvE (unless you have good healers and tanks), and glass cannon PvP.

If you are not going for the Undeath passive and/or sneak+cloak, it's not really worth it... Or for Roleplay of course!

likecats

Pauls wrote: »

Greymoor update moved vamps down from useful level to garbage/RP level

They are basically mandatory in PVP with the buffed undeath passive. People just haven't caught up yet.

MartiniDaniels

likecats wrote: »

Pauls wrote: »

Greymoor update moved vamps down from useful level to garbage/RP level

They are basically mandatory in PVP with the buffed undeath passive. People just haven't caught up yet.

I don't think mandatory, but certainly much more viable then forums claim. Vampire is way to trade sustain and health recovery, for more damage and mitigation... and with sets like tonal constancy, amber plasm and eternal vigor, sustain is not an issue...

likecats

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Pauls wrote: »

Greymoor update moved vamps down from useful level to garbage/RP level

They are basically mandatory in PVP with the buffed undeath passive. People just haven't caught up yet.

I don't think mandatory, but certainly much more viable then forums claim. Vampire is way to trade sustain and health recovery, for more damage and mitigation... and with sets like tonal constancy, amber plasm and eternal vigor, sustain is not an issue...

It's not mandatory in the literal sense, but it's mandatory if you want to run meta for overwhelming majority of builds.

Record the number of times you die. And record the number of times you die because you were drained out of your resources completely. If the absolute difference is high, vamp is mandatory* for you. Based on my personal PVP experience of many years, 99% of PVP deaths are because of being bursted not because of running out of resources.

The new undeath passive is really strong, it gives you 10% mitigation at 70% health, 15% mitigation at 50% health, and 24% mitigation when executes like mages wrath kick in. Like I said, people just haven't caught on yet.

*: if you want use meta in pvp for your build.

regime211

I ended up curing my Vampirism, honestly I find the whole change garbage, just my opinion. It was a good chance for Zos to give us something unique with vampire but failed.

Paradisius

The Blood Frenzy change was way too extreme (And I can only assume its to address the cheese dummy parses people have done, where they have 100% Simmering Frenzy uptime). It really is a shame that this went from being a reasonable risk/reward skill to being so risky to use that you have to leave it off most of the time, thus devaluing the reward all together.

If they were going to address Frenzy, they should have EITHER increased the cap and the drain per second, or leave the drain per second at 10 and not have a cap. Having a fast ramp up cost without an upper limit makes this skill way too dangerous to use.