Vampire rework

Deathlord92

Can any pc players please tell me how the new vampire performing in pvp especially for stamblade. As a console player I can’t test it and I must know.

Xargas13

I dont know about stamina, but my magicka character, suffers greatly at stage 4, mostly to the increased cost, I haven't tried stage 1 though.

Deathlord92

Xargas13 wrote: »

I dont know about stamina, but my magicka character, suffers greatly at stage 4, mostly to the increased cost, I haven't tried stage 1 though.

Ok thx m8 any information tbh is greatly appreciated

Rovaeden

New Vamp is going to be pretty terrible for pvp. At least that is the writing on the wall.
Non-vamp abilities cost more to use the higher your stage gets. The stage 4 healing reduction of 100% means you cannot passively heal at all anymore. Most of your abilities leverage off of you using or losing your health rather than life draining and gaining back health (which is how it should be). Blood frenzy gimps yourself, effectively making you always in execute range.

I can see a pvp suicide build where you use frenzy to buff up while in stealth, one shot opener kill from stealth then immediately die from a light breeze but other than that, I imagine most are going to end up curing Vamp for pvp.

wheem_ESO

Stage 2 is probably mostly manageable for "normal" builds that are only utilizing Mist Form, the CC, and/or Arterial Burst. There are definitely some drawbacks, but the incoming fire damage will at least be less than it was at Stage 4 in the past.

If you're looking at running the Stamblade as a gank build, you can probably utilize Blood Frenzy and/or Blood for Blood to attempt some 1-shots from stealth. I personally think that this makes for a very poor gameplay experience for everyone involved, but it's there as an option. For general gameplay, I dunno that Vampire is all that useful for most Stamina builds, at least in no-CP. The extra weapon damage for using Mist Form might be nice for burst, but I'm not sure that the opportunity cost is really worth it.

katorga

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Stage 2 is probably mostly manageable for "normal" builds that are only utilizing Mist Form, the CC, and/or Arterial Burst. There are definitely some drawbacks, but the incoming fire damage will at least be less than it was at Stage 4 in the past.

If you're looking at running the Stamblade as a gank build, you can probably utilize Blood Frenzy and/or Blood for Blood to attempt some 1-shots from stealth. I personally think that this makes for a very poor gameplay experience for everyone involved, but it's there as an option. For general gameplay, I dunno that Vampire is all that useful for most Stamina builds, at least in no-CP. The extra weapon damage for using Mist Form might be nice for burst, but I'm not sure that the opportunity cost is really worth it.

I've been playing around with it, and Blood Frenzy/Sated is pretty brutal in terms of health loss. Missing your HOT refresh or not recognizing that it got toggled can be catastrophic. I ended up going 44 points into health to get a buffer whch still leave me at 40K mag, 27K health, ~3.5K spell damage pve. Too much micromanaging the toggle in long fights.

The costs increases seem manageable with slight build changes, or maybe race change to Breton, but I have to rely heavily on Blood for Blood as a spammable to mitigate magicka consumption.

My fear is that lacking a class decent CC, I get forced to be a vampire for pvp, and the negatives will be brutal there. Magcro is difficult enough in pvp. I'm leaning toward cure, and switch to stamina at this point.

I really, really dislike zero health recovery while running around leveling scrying/excavation.

lnigo

You could definitely make some annoying troll builds wiith vamp, but not really on stamblade. You might be able to theory craft a nasty gank build using titanborn and blood frenzy.

RodneyRegis

My magplar's sustain is gone, and mist form is pretty dreadful - it's not like it stops people hitting you so toggling is pretty pointless, apart from the damage reduction. Will play around a bit more but probably respec and cure

MartiniDaniels

You just need either torc of tonal constancy, or eternal vigor (new overland heavy set) or buffed abmer plasm. All those three sets buffs all regen to the sky, more then enough to compensate for increased cost of stage 3 where you have Undeath, which now is comparable to wearing buffer of the swift + potentates.
So as stage 3 vampire with mist slotted and one of those 3 sets, you technically wear Swift, Potentates and Ancient Dragonguard at once, but have large penalty to health regen as pay-off. Ah, and you can move in stealth at full speed, which is useful feature for solo play no matter of your class.

shrekt4303

I only see it viable on certain magblade builds and magplar. Tonal constancy will be a good buffer to offset being a vamp without mitigating too much of your damage.

Frenzy can be procced with ult and probably the only reasonable time to do it.

Mist form is useful for escaping in short bursts.

Other skills seem pretty optional.

Sange13

I think new vamp opens up the return of the magBlade bomber... put up the bat aura that does aoe dps and heals you, prep the bomb, mist form, Lotus Fan--all with aoe dps (and maybe self-heals like Baraha) proc sets... Seems like there's a lot of anti-zerg potential--especially if you can get a 2nd player to do it with you.

Zabulus

Rovaeden wrote: »

New Vamp is going to be pretty terrible for pvp. At least that is the writing on the wall.
Non-vamp abilities cost more to use the higher your stage gets. The stage 4 healing reduction of 100% means you cannot passively heal at all anymore. Most of your abilities leverage off of you using or losing your health rather than life draining and gaining back health (which is how it should be). Blood frenzy gimps yourself, effectively making you always in execute range.

I can see a pvp suicide build where you use frenzy to buff up while in stealth, one shot opener kill from stealth then immediately die from a light breeze but other than that, I imagine most are going to end up curing Vamp for pvp.

Yep, for the first time i consider curing my main ... Tried again this morning, vamp sucks in pvp badly ...
The cost of non vampire skills made me OOM faster than expected.
The 0 health regen ... ouch ...
After some duels ...i went offline disgusted.

JinxxND

I'm liking now that the new vampire is exposing the people that had it strictly for RP purposes with the old slight negatives now that you really have to commit to being a vampire for the skill line/passives for its huge negatives which is showing how truly niche vampirism is.

That being said it is niche gankers will get use of it and just become further glass cannons and having the perfected scion ult as a get out of jail card because it loses all the negatives in that form and increases your dmg via max stat, any normal build will suffer as the negatives of losing hp recovery/sustain/taking increased fire dmg and super charged dawnbreaker that can kill a person thru devouring scion ult

Deathlord92

Thx for the replies eternal vigor looks very appealing tbh for vampire I will try it makes a lot of sense especially if I’m using blood frenzy which I definitely will 🙂

Deathlord92

May even try a vampire heavy build use dark cloak or mist because vampire gives me access to invisible anyways 🙂

wheem_ESO

I've done a handful of BGs now as a Magicka Necromancer with Stage 4 Vampirism and the same gear I was using before the Greymoor patch. The combination of cost increases from NMA and Stage 4 Vampirism are pretty hefty, even for a Breton. I wanna say Degeneration was around 2.5k Magicka, and Resistant Flesh (class burst heal) was a little over 4.3k, while healing roughly that same amount of HP non-crit on targets that weren't defiled. Basically, trying to keep teammates alive wasn't feasible against any "real" damage.

So what do you actually gain for the substantial drawbacks at Stage 4? Honestly, not much at all. The ultimate looks neat I guess, but it's far too expensive for what it actually does, even at Stage 4. It also doesn't seem to actually fill up my Stamina bar with the extra resources when I transform, so if you're low Stam already you can still get locked in CC and/or be unable to catch up with anybody who's trying to kite you (my class doesn't have access to a gap closer, and Vampirism's toolkit is very much incomplete for a "melee build").

The CC ability is extremely unreliable, and oftentimes just wastes my resources. It's either dodgeable, or being in a dodge roll animation means that the person isn't counted as facing you, no matter what direction they were facing before and after the dodge roll. Either that or it just frequently gets ruined by lag. It also can't be used against anyone who's actively trying to escape from you, and leaves Magicka Necromancer in the same cruddy position it was in before the patch.

Eviscerate is OK as a spammable, but it's nothing special. The cost is a little over 1500 as a Breton in Stage 4 with NMA, and it does slightly more damage than other Magicka options (significantly less than Dizzying Swing for Stam builds, though). Magicka Necromancer also doesn't have access to "real" melee tools, so it's generally inferior to Crushing Shock/Force Pulse/Elemental Weapon/etc...

The new version of Mist Form is pretty good, and I like it better than the old one, but that's really all the positives I can say about the current iteration of Vampirism.

While it may be possible to have some sort of dedicated Vampire setup that actually functions well without being a gank build, I don't really see it working out on a Magicka Necromancer. Maybe some kind of cheesey super-high HP build with the Blood for Blood morph of the spammable and trying to utilize Blood Frenzy + a quick Mist Form cancel for the Spell Power on a burst attempt could work, but I doubt it'd be all that competitive.

As for the OP's question regarding Stamblade, I don't think my opinion has really changed. You could utilize the Stage 2 passive for some extra weapon power out of stealth/invisibility, and perhaps even Blood Frenzy for attempting some 1-shot ganks, but otherwise it likely won't be very useful for you.

Neloth

Stage 4 vamp + Magsorc is super fun for open world

First, they don’t chase me from Sej to bleakers now, with new invis I have a better mobility then a NB, and it’s already a game changer
Second, dark deal makes cost increase unnoticeable
Third, vamp CC is very good on a class without good CC (Magsorc)
Finally, fenzy can be used to burst potatoes more quickly then they can say “nerf sorc”

wheem_ESO

Neloth wrote: »

Third, vamp CC is very good on a class without good CC (Magsorc)

…….what?

Streak is so unbelievably incredible compared to the "CC options" that Magicka Necromancer has. After playing a little Magicka Sorcerer over the past week or so, for the first time in probably 2 or 3 years, the difference is stark. Plus the Vampire CC was basically trash in BGs. Half the time it looked like I should have had a CC land on a Stam build, nothing happened (other than my resources being spent, that is). The dodge spam, general mobility, and lag just seemed too much for it to handle.

Freakin_Hytte

It won't be bis, but it's fun to theorycraft with. I have made a melee magsorc and it works way better than expected. Just don't go stage 4, stage 2 or 3 is manageable if you are a breton and not using NMA (I'm a max mag build and have 67k mag with the ulti). Combine that swarm with boundless storm and grothdar and the aoe pressure is intense for other players and most pretty much melt away

I would decrease the cost increase but letting the cost decrease as it is and remove that ridiculous health regen punishment of 100%. Then stage 4 might be worth it. But I will never be stage 4, it's just not worth it.

But you will have to build for being a vampire, most people that you see are salty is because they don't really want to be a vampire and I understand that, I have also removed vampirism from several characters.

Neloth

Well, I lied, vamp CC seems to be only ok in duels

But the rest is true

MartiniDaniels

Neloth wrote: »

Well, I lied, vamp CC seems to be only ok in duels

But the rest is true

Best CC in the game (unblockable, aoe, paired with gap closer/creator) -> class without good CC

katorga

I cured. The ultimate was good. Mistform was good. Everything else meh. The benefits were not worth the negatives, or building around. The CC only works reliably in pve. The lack of health regen was a total pain. Not being able to talk to merchants was a hoot.

Swapped my necro back to stamina as well, I figure the extra speed and sprint capacity will speed up leveling scrying/excavation and grinding mythic items. I plan to level WW in the process to see what the changes for it are like.

Neloth

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Well, I lied, vamp CC seems to be only ok in duels

But the rest is true

Best CC in the game (unblockable, aoe, paired with gap closer/creator) -> class without good CC

in BGs/duels streak can be good

For open world it requires sacrificing BoL, which is imho not worth on it’s own if you aim to play solo

In addition, streak is impossible to use in Cyro with the current state of its performance

So yes, for me sorc is a class without good CC

MartiniDaniels

Neloth wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Well, I lied, vamp CC seems to be only ok in duels

But the rest is true

Best CC in the game (unblockable, aoe, paired with gap closer/creator) -> class without good CC

in BGs/duels streak can be good

For open world it requires sacrificing BoL, which is imho not worth on it’s own if you aim to play solo

In addition, streak is impossible to use in Cyro with the current state of its performance

So yes, for me sorc is a class without good CC

You know, we had multiple discussions with sorcs about streak. And even hardcore magsorc mains have position like "Streak is fine, it is comparable to Toppling charge". And if you think that Fear/Turn Evil works better in all that lag... no, it is same lottery where you are not sure where your opponent really are. In that conditions you may say that fossilize is superior... as stun - yes. But fossilize does nothing else, it is single target and it is close melee range. I think all classes were looking at mesmerize with hope for unblockable aoe stun, which will be more reliable then turn evil...

wheem_ESO

katorga wrote: »

Not being able to talk to merchants was a hoot.

As a PSA for anyone who isn't already aware: using the Vampire CC on a merchant will allow you to interact with them as you normally would (and I have attacking innocents disabled - no problems there). This is the one instance where the CC has actually been reliable for me.

'Course, if you aren't normally using the CC it'll get tedious switching it in and out every time you want to talk to a merchant. No one in the various Outlaws Refuges seem to care about Vampirism, so that's also an option.

Right after logging onto the Greymoor PTS for the first time I had several NPC merchants in Daggerfall refuse to do business, telling me what an awful monster I was at Stage 4 (despite wearing a costume that completely covered my appearance). So I waltzed into the bank and was met with a very cheery, "Welcome to the Bank of Daggerfall!" I suppose there's a joke about blood-sucking bankers in there somewhere, but I was too overwhelmed by the amazingly realistic roleplay to make it.

Deathlord92

Neloth wrote: »

Stage 4 vamp + Magsorc is super fun for open world

First, they don’t chase me from Sej to bleakers now, with new invis I have a better mobility then a NB, and it’s already a game changer
Second, dark deal makes cost increase unnoticeable
Third, vamp CC is very good on a class without good CC (Magsorc)
Finally, fenzy can be used to burst potatoes more quickly then they can say “nerf sorc”

I have always thought streak to be really strong tbh nice aoe stun good for solo play anyways.

chris25602

so first i dont pay attention to meta so this idea might have already been squashed...I plan on slotting perfect scion backbar and ignoring everything else. The tooltip (ik tooltips usualy lie) says i can go from stage 1 to stage 5 gain 10K resources and heal % dmg done. this totally sounds like a great oh *** button. the biggest thing idk is if the tooltip is actually true do i attain stage 5 while being at stage 1 seems like a huge gap not to be covered even worse that it isnt communicated. can anyone confirm behavior of this skill?

Cronopoly

Vamp requires timing for many of it's skills and with the massive LAG we are experiencing it's damn impossible to get things to fire when you need it IMHO.

That said, I dropped Crown$tore paid Vamp on my PVE Tank and PVP Healer. I only left Vamp on my 2 Nightblades and may cure the Stamblade outright, though he may get some use as a Sprint invisible node Gatherer...seems his only use nowadays.i

chris25602

so i tested and yes what i thought was true im more than willing to take stage 1 penalties if i can use perfect scion

katorga

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Thx for the replies eternal vigor looks very appealing tbh for vampire I will try it makes a lot of sense especially if I’m using blood frenzy which I definitely will 🙂

Eternal Vigor is ~300 mag/stam regen over 50% health, and ~1000 health regen below. On stage 4, you lose the entire 5piece once you get under 50. Ironic, they introduced vampire with extreme health regen negatives and some really nice magicka options for health regen in the same patch.