PvE has an end, but PvP doesn't

LoveForElderScrolls

xF1REFL1x wrote: »

Why not play both?

I'm saying pay attention to both not just PvE.

Thogard

Endgame PvP is beating someone in PvP and then hitting themwith a whisper so well crafted that they quit the game. It’s like 1v1ing them in hardcore mode.

Qbiken

Zos could have done something great with BG's by adding a competitive scene with a good mmr system with rankings, exclusive rewards, seasons etc...

But instead they removed the option to play together because some primates believed they lost matches because of premades and their egos couldn't handle that......

Thoragaal

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

... what are you talking about. I guess it's possible to complete ALL achievements and do ALL quests, but that is a monumental effort that almost no one completes or desires to complete. Even then, there's stuff to do- get involved in a trade guild, do housing stuff, RP, run stuff with your guilds for the hell of it, whatever. I've never had anyone quit because PvE "ends"; it's the same as when someone quits PvP- you're done when you decide you're done, not because of content limitations.

"Player versus Environment" is about beating the enviornment and has nothing to do with housing, trading or roleplaying.
Having players chasing "Achievements" is the laziest form of "content" any developer can do. It's not even content, it's just an arbitrary goal that doesn't add any value to a players experience, because the player can already experience the content without said achievements.

Anhedonie

The problem is pvp is pretty bad in this game. They don't have proper scoring, they don't have enough modes and the most important, ZO$ is terrible at balancing. In pve bad balance doesn't matter much, but in competitive PvP it's number 1 priority. And the sad reality is, developers can't balance things properly, so nobody will ever be able to take pvp seriously in this game. It's gonna remain a joke as long as classes remain imbalanced as they are.

But again, pvp is still missing insane amount of features ranging from qol and basic functionality and up to core features.

VaranisArano

Both of them end when the player gets bored of "I'm just doing the same thing over and over."

But since in PVP, the players ARE the content, ZOS has to do less work to just provide the arena in which to fight each other. The problems with PVP are more due to the brokenness of the current arenas (Cyrodiil performance, Battlegrounds MMR, etc) than the lack of a new, fresh arena.

I'm generally happy to fight at the same keeps and resources. The fights are different each time.
I'm not happy to keep fighting in the same lag and experiencing the same crashes.

robertthebard

Qbiken wrote: »

Zos could have done something great with BG's by adding a competitive scene with a good mmr system with rankings, exclusive rewards, seasons etc...

But instead they removed the option to play together because some primates believed they lost matches because of premades and their egos couldn't handle that......

Is this a "red pill" moment, something akin to "What if I told you that premade groups suck every bit as much as PuGs" thing? Because I'm under the considered opinion that part of the reason one makes a premade group is to assure that you get the best possible players you can. In what world does that not equate to "more organized and better able to win than a PuG"?

...and the Darwin Award goes to...

olsborg

PvP has ended. By the way of lagg

jadarock

Oh pvp will have its end as they are most definitely killing it..

West93

Not sure if end game pve is better here than in other MMO games, but pvp is definitely best if you take out lag and performance issues.

Came back from classic wow here couple months ago and pvp combat system here just feels so much better, it rewards good timing and reaction instead of pressing bunch of macros and watching cooldowns.

Att1Tude

PvP is true endgame.

Ye_Olde_Crowe

Att1Tude wrote: »

PvP is true endgame.

For me, housing is the true endgame.

Ysbriel

If PvP is not the endgame, why sets and skills constantly get nerfed because PvP performance? Why people are here all the time arguing about sets being unbalanced? Most META changes have been focusing on PvP. Dizzy Swing certainly did not get the nerf hammer because the Celestial Warrior complained he got hit too hard with it, bloodspawn is not getting the nerf hammer because Yolnakriin complained you were “too tanky” Earthgore did not get the nerf hammer because Z’maja complained about the whole group being healed and so on so forth with many skills, sets and the food that has been nerfed. All new changes have to do with penetration and resistances. And im not going to point out names but i’ve seen some of you here vigorously talking PvP things to get nerfed in previous posts i’ve read in this forum, so either flip flopping or simply nay saying for the sake of it.

huntgod_ESO

This game has a pretty entertaining PVP system, not perfect, could definitely do better if they set it up as a completely different system and changed the PVE elements in Cyrodil...

The problem is they broke Cyrodil two months ago with the optimization patch and it has grown progressively worse with each patch.

I'd like to play BG's, though I enjoy Cyrodil more, but when they removed group queuing the fun in BG's evaporated, I want to play with my friends, not a pickup group. I am really hoping the revisit this, I know it sucks to be in a PUG and playing against premades, but not being able to play with your friends really sucks and though it may make it more approachable for the solo player, it really killed it for folks that were running BG groups a lot.

Snowgoons

We have had the same Cyrodiil map with a declining experience lag wise for over 6 YEARS.

PvE players get new content like every 3 months....new skills, new quest, new bosses, new sets, like bro @ZOS do you even care about anyone that plays PvP in this game?

AoE test don't change the fact that you've ignored us in almost every way for soon going on a decade.

It's absolutely absurd, how much PvP is still lacking in this game, and every PvE player got a wealth of content so I dunno why PvE players come in and tell PvP players they aren't deserving of content.

Then you have the "Stream Team" members who mostly ONLY PvP and STILL no pvp content, pvp lags, like what is going on and why aren't you addressing this head on @ZOS?

AoE test when people lag in PvE, how is that related to PvP?

People are out here lagging without even an AoE going off, can we get a professional Cyrodiil team considering after years of this one would think you would classify it as an emergency?

Danksta

preevious wrote: »

The problem is that a vast majority of players play PVE.
So, PVE is privilegied. It brings far more money.
You might find it unfair, but from a business perspective, it's perfectly understandable and natural.

PvE players will always outnumber PvP players in this game but there would definitely be more PvP players if they gave a *** about it. Too bad all the potential in Cyrodiil just squandered.

Daemons_Bane

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

They should invest more into the PvP side of this game if we care about Elder Scrolls Online because PvE ends, but PvP is there forever. That way, we can be sure ESO stays active for a long time.

Yes because it's PvP that drives ESO.... /Sarcasm
Your endgame is being crowned Emperor

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

... what are you talking about. I guess it's possible to complete ALL achievements and do ALL quests, but that is a monumental effort that almost no one completes or desires to complete. Even then, there's stuff to do- get involved in a trade guild, do housing stuff, RP, run stuff with your guilds for the hell of it, whatever. I've never had anyone quit because PvE "ends"; it's the same as when someone quits PvP- you're done when you decide you're done, not because of content limitations.

Well, there are these masochists :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386482/achievement-points-leaderboard-greymoor-41k-club

Casul

Pvp really could use some love. But I wouldn't compare it's longevity to pve because they are not really comparable.

Casul

JKorr wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

They should invest more into the PvP side of this game if we care about Elder Scrolls Online because PvE ends, but PvP is there forever. That way, we can be sure ESO stays active for a long time.

I wish there would be a way to measure how many players are actively involved in pvp, and how many are pve focused. The only reasons I've ever bothered with visiting Cyrodiil was to go to IC to use the crafting stations. Now with attuned stations, I can totally ignore pvp. I've been here since beta, and if it shifted to pvp focused, or pvp only, I'd quit immediately. Subbed since early release, two accounts, lots of stuff, most of the senche mounts, houses bought, everything....I'd drop it all and walk away. Your idea would kill the game for me.

There's no excuse for either side to be upset. This game pulls in enough money that we should all be satisfied. I mean hell depending on what lists you go by ESO ranks in the top 3 MMOs out currently.

Snowgoons

BuildMan wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

They should invest more into the PvP side of this game if we care about Elder Scrolls Online because PvE ends, but PvP is there forever. That way, we can be sure ESO stays active for a long time.

I wish there would be a way to measure how many players are actively involved in pvp, and how many are pve focused. The only reasons I've ever bothered with visiting Cyrodiil was to go to IC to use the crafting stations. Now with attuned stations, I can totally ignore pvp. I've been here since beta, and if it shifted to pvp focused, or pvp only, I'd quit immediately. Subbed since early release, two accounts, lots of stuff, most of the senche mounts, houses bought, everything....I'd drop it all and walk away. Your idea would kill the game for me.

There's no excuse for either side to be upset. This game pulls in enough money that we should all be satisfied. I mean hell depending on what lists you go by ESO ranks in the top 3 MMOs out currently.

The entire game is like 80% PvE, I can't stand people acting like it's not.

PvP needs attention, not more PvE stuff sorry.

PvE players already have tons of content.

TwinLamps

PvP ends when you get banned

Strider__Roshin

Starlock wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

PvE has... an .... end?

?
??
???

This. I'm not sure what he's talking about.

PvEers die, PVPers are immortal

if you die in PvE you die in real life

Wait... is this the same forum where people whine endlessly about how easy overland PvE is? About how it is impossible to die to anything?

Fall damage.

kargen27

Snowgoons wrote: »

We have had the same Cyrodiil map with a declining experience lag wise for over 6 YEARS.

PvE players get new content like every 3 months....new skills, new quest, new bosses, new sets, like bro @ZOS do you even care about anyone that plays PvP in this game?

AoE test don't change the fact that you've ignored us in almost every way for soon going on a decade.

It's absolutely absurd, how much PvP is still lacking in this game, and every PvE player got a wealth of content so I dunno why PvE players come in and tell PvP players they aren't deserving of content.

Then you have the "Stream Team" members who mostly ONLY PvP and STILL no pvp content, pvp lags, like what is going on and why aren't you addressing this head on @ZOS?

AoE test when people lag in PvE, how is that related to PvP?

People are out here lagging without even an AoE going off, can we get a professional Cyrodiil team considering after years of this one would think you would classify it as an emergency?

New PvP content would cause harm to PvP not help it. PvP depends on players fighting players. The game already has a thin player base for PvP. Spreading that out over even more content only causes all PvP content to be less populated. I wouldn't mind changes made in the existing PvP content but all new content would not be good for PvP.

Snowgoons

kargen27 wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

We have had the same Cyrodiil map with a declining experience lag wise for over 6 YEARS.

PvE players get new content like every 3 months....new skills, new quest, new bosses, new sets, like bro @ZOS do you even care about anyone that plays PvP in this game?

AoE test don't change the fact that you've ignored us in almost every way for soon going on a decade.

It's absolutely absurd, how much PvP is still lacking in this game, and every PvE player got a wealth of content so I dunno why PvE players come in and tell PvP players they aren't deserving of content.

Then you have the "Stream Team" members who mostly ONLY PvP and STILL no pvp content, pvp lags, like what is going on and why aren't you addressing this head on @ZOS?

AoE test when people lag in PvE, how is that related to PvP?

People are out here lagging without even an AoE going off, can we get a professional Cyrodiil team considering after years of this one would think you would classify it as an emergency?

New PvP content would cause harm to PvP not help it. PvP depends on players fighting players. The game already has a thin player base for PvP. Spreading that out over even more content only causes all PvP content to be less populated. I wouldn't mind changes made in the existing PvP content but all new content would not be good for PvP.

You and other people keep not understand something that seems very easy to understand.

No ones saying split the population.

Adding content doesn't have to mean adding new areas, that's what they have people programmed to think via PVE.

There's plenty of things ZOS could do with the regular map, and plenty of ways to still reward people in PVE while doing PVP.

NO that might not cater to you whoever is reading this, but it's what needs to be done.

You don't just ignore pvp completely and keep dropping pve content every 3 months.

NO, Imperial City event is not content.

SirAxen

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

PvP ended with IC. That was the last time PvP saw any new content unless you count BGs but that feels more like a game mode. PvE is about to get an update with Greymoor. PvP is somewhere in the past. Think you got it backwards OP.

There is only so many different ways you can kill each other. The game has dueling, open world pvp with siege (cyrodiil), BG's, pve/pvp blend with IC. Like, what more could you want?

MrBrownstone

PvP in this game has an end. It has ended years ago

karekiz

If PvE has an end wouldn't it be better to invest to make new content to push what that "end" is.

Wouldn't it be better to not invest into something player driven and will most like through dev updates only drive players away as they mettle with what those players love with the game?

kargen27

Snowgoons wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

We have had the same Cyrodiil map with a declining experience lag wise for over 6 YEARS.

PvE players get new content like every 3 months....new skills, new quest, new bosses, new sets, like bro @ZOS do you even care about anyone that plays PvP in this game?

AoE test don't change the fact that you've ignored us in almost every way for soon going on a decade.

It's absolutely absurd, how much PvP is still lacking in this game, and every PvE player got a wealth of content so I dunno why PvE players come in and tell PvP players they aren't deserving of content.

Then you have the "Stream Team" members who mostly ONLY PvP and STILL no pvp content, pvp lags, like what is going on and why aren't you addressing this head on @ZOS?

AoE test when people lag in PvE, how is that related to PvP?

People are out here lagging without even an AoE going off, can we get a professional Cyrodiil team considering after years of this one would think you would classify it as an emergency?

New PvP content would cause harm to PvP not help it. PvP depends on players fighting players. The game already has a thin player base for PvP. Spreading that out over even more content only causes all PvP content to be less populated. I wouldn't mind changes made in the existing PvP content but all new content would not be good for PvP.

You and other people keep not understand something that seems very easy to understand.

No ones saying split the population.

Adding content doesn't have to mean adding new areas, that's what they have people programmed to think via PVE.

There's plenty of things ZOS could do with the regular map, and plenty of ways to still reward people in PVE while doing PVP.

NO that might not cater to you whoever is reading this, but it's what needs to be done.

You don't just ignore pvp completely and keep dropping pve content every 3 months.

NO, Imperial City event is not content.

Yeah I covered your bold text with "I wouldn't mind changes made in the existing PvP content but all new content would not be good for PvP".
My first response was to your comment "It's absolutely absurd, how much PvP is still lacking in this game, and every PvE player got a wealth of content so I dunno why PvE players come in and tell PvP players they aren't deserving of content."

The only way to take that when you compare the lack of PvP content to the amount PvE has is that you want new content. Not more features in already existing content but actual new content.

If all you are asking for is enhancement to existing PvP content then we are in agreement. Your posts do not read as that is what you were asking for. They read as you wanting new maps for PvP.

And it isn't as if PvP hasn't received any attention. We got that hammer that everyone hates and a few other things along the way. The problem is PvP needs to have choke points and objectives that cause players to congregate in one spot. Hard to really offer to much in new features when in the end it comes down to players being in the same place at the same time fighting each other.

"There's plenty of things ZOS could do with the regular map, and plenty of ways to still reward people in PVE while doing PVP."

What are your ideas with this?

Dusk_Coven

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

They should invest more into the PvP side of this game if we care about Elder Scrolls Online because PvE ends, but PvP is there forever. That way, we can be sure ESO stays active for a long time.

???

PvP is grind doing basically the same thing over and over.
Some PvE people repetitively grind content too. That's what MMOs try to get their entire player base to do.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]