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Redguard is NOT good.
LuxLunae
✭✭✭✭✭
What I found to be true
Stamina Recov>>>> any type of reduction (TRUST ME)
If zos swiched anything to have reduction over stamina recov it was a passive nerf...
So that means that weapon reduction on stamina side is worthless. (I am not sure on magica side)
15% snare....when orc gets sprint -10% and 10% movement speed.....(I was running around in snare as an orc and said "wait how the hell am I better than are redguard in snare?")
15% snare...WORTHLESS
2000 stamina (ORC, IMPERIALS HAVE THIS!!! AND HEALTH!!!)
Finally, 945 stamina every 5 seconds (WWWWWWWWWOOOOOORRRRTHHHHLESSSSS!!) putting into stamina recov and holding it about 2.5k makes this useless.
2.5K stamina recov beats out all of the redguards passives.
When we have orcs, nords, imperials, bretons etc.
You know, that weapon thing was good when...weapons actually did damage...but it was nerfed so bad who even uses weaopn skills now?
In pve there is no rush to keep stamina up...There is NO REWARD TO KEEP STAMINA UP....
Solution "while stamina is above 50% or magica is above 50% on redguard they get 500 weapon damage and/or 500 spell damage"
I think that's fair...
Edit: ok what about 400 weapon damage/ spell damage at 75% stamina/magica?
if they both over they get the 400, if one is above and the other is below only one gets it... if they both below they get none...
LETS PUT IT IN A SET?
Ok
Yokudans Revenge
2 set: Spell Crit and Weapon Crit
3 set: Spell Crit and Weapon Crit
4 set: Spell Crit and Weapon Crit
5 set: When your stamina and/or magica is 75% and above get 600 spell damage and weapon damage
When your stamina is above 50% but below 75% get 450 spell damage and weapon damage
When your stamina is above 25% but below 50% get 300 weapon damage.
ZERO below 25%. if they both over they get the points, if one is above and the other is below only one gets it... if they both below they get less/ none...
I only put 2, 3 ,4 set as spell crit and weapon crit because my bro still cries about how he can't be a true hybrid without crit...
Edited by LuxLunae on May 21, 2020 7:46PM Stamina Recov>>>> any type of reduction (TRUST ME)
If zos swiched anything to have reduction over stamina recov it was a passive nerf...
So that means that weapon reduction on stamina side is worthless. (I am not sure on magica side)
15% snare....when orc gets sprint -10% and 10% movement speed.....(I was running around in snare as an orc and said "wait how the hell am I better than are redguard in snare?")
15% snare...WORTHLESS
2000 stamina (ORC, IMPERIALS HAVE THIS!!! AND HEALTH!!!)
Finally, 945 stamina every 5 seconds (WWWWWWWWWOOOOOORRRRTHHHHLESSSSS!!) putting into stamina recov and holding it about 2.5k makes this useless.
2.5K stamina recov beats out all of the redguards passives.
When we have orcs, nords, imperials, bretons etc.
You know, that weapon thing was good when...weapons actually did damage...but it was nerfed so bad who even uses weaopn skills now?
In pve there is no rush to keep stamina up...There is NO REWARD TO KEEP STAMINA UP....
Solution "while stamina is above 50% or magica is above 50% on redguard they get 500 weapon damage and/or 500 spell damage"
I think that's fair...
Edit: ok what about 400 weapon damage/ spell damage at 75% stamina/magica?
if they both over they get the 400, if one is above and the other is below only one gets it... if they both below they get none...
LETS PUT IT IN A SET?
Ok
Yokudans Revenge
2 set: Spell Crit and Weapon Crit
3 set: Spell Crit and Weapon Crit
4 set: Spell Crit and Weapon Crit
5 set: When your stamina and/or magica is 75% and above get 600 spell damage and weapon damage
When your stamina is above 50% but below 75% get 450 spell damage and weapon damage
When your stamina is above 25% but below 50% get 300 weapon damage.
ZERO below 25%. if they both over they get the points, if one is above and the other is below only one gets it... if they both below they get less/ none...
I only put 2, 3 ,4 set as spell crit and weapon crit because my bro still cries about how he can't be a true hybrid without crit...
1
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Sange13✭✭✭OP, it's the combination of reduction AND sustain that makes them good. They have an easier time maintaining rotations than other races, so all else being equal, they can continue to dps past the point where certain builds would bottom out (or have to sacrifice their damage to match that sustain). I'm not saying they are the best or anything. They just aren't as bad as you believe them to be.IGN: Sange-1315 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here is how i see it with the Racials the Orc Speed Bonus and sprint cost reduction should be given to the Khajiits. Their health and stamina bonuses are okay because it reflects the lore on them being a more hardy race so they shouldn't be nerfed there . I think Bosmer should get their stealth back. But have the pickpocking and fall damage flipped around. After all Khajiit are Based on Agile felines they would naturally be more aerobatic then a Bosmer.
The rest of the races are fine. So all they need to do is flip around some racials to make them look more lore friendly. Then they will all be good.
So Bosmer should be the Theft Race, Khajiit the acrobatics and athletics race and Orcs the Hardy warriors and smiths race. When it comes to their passives.PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.5 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Races aren't balanced in the game, esp. not in PvP. Balance in this game is a meme at this point. Don't worry, we have next patch to look forward to...2 -
Sun7dance✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭He's right, except for the last sentence of course.
Orcs are too strong because they have at least one useful bonus more than any other stamina race.
Nevertheless you can play redguard really comfortably in pve, unless you are hardcore raiding.
Redguard + VO (+ Whirling Blade + Ballista + Endless Hail + maybe Acid Spray) works really well for veteran dlc hm dungeons.
You have absolutely no problems with your stamina and you still do more than enough damage.
But in the end, I still have to say that ZOS has not reached any promised diversity with the race changes. Best in slot just jumped from redguard to orc, nothing else! (except heavy attack Dragonknight)
Same for magickas: Before the patch all magickas played Darkelf or Highelf and now they only play Bretone or Highelf.Edited by Sun7dance on May 21, 2020 8:35AMPS5|EU0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you do the math across an entire fight in pvp, you will find that overall that for whatever viable build you are trying to accomplish in, redguard is out classed by other races, even when using weapon abilities. Pm me for details.0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well there is likely a two to three thousand dps difference. Personally don't have to have an extra 2000 to 3000 damage to be viable. So it really shouldn't matter what race you are.PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Drakoleon✭✭✭✭Races will never be balanced! In couple of months another race will be buffed...and so on.
Race change tokens are in store for a reason......you dont want zeni to go hungry...do you?1 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sadly you have to be ugly if you want a damage bonus.
I actually find some of the male orcs to be quite... enticing. But then I am a metaller/biker and typically prefer bald guys with beards and tattoos (if facepaint were a thing in this day and age I would love that to death, too), so that might be a factor
This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!7 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RG and Khajiit clearly lack at the moment.
RG's problem is that sustain is ultimately too easy or a mechanical afterthought. Whilst their sustain passive is actually very strong on paper, it underperforms in a vast majority of applications because of available recompense.
If there was TRUE stat dense gold bi-stat food, Redguard would be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger.
Khajiit needs a 129 weapon damage modifier.Edited by usmcjdking on May 21, 2020 6:45PM0331
06025 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What i found to be true is the first few words people say when they don;t know wtf they are talking about.
Like do you even realize just how effin strong 500 weapon and spell damage above 50 % stamina or magicka is? Especially on redguard?
Also passives like adrenaline rush worthless? Please.
The whole post is just a conglomerate of ***.Edited by JinMori on May 21, 2020 6:51PM2 -
daemonor✭✭✭✭Well redguards had a few years of being bis already, so did khajits, let orcs have their time and stop h8ing o them.2
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Letting us pick racial skill lines would solve so much hassle.Edited by Deathlord92 on May 21, 2020 7:23PM1 -
LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭What i found to be true is the first few words people say when they don;t know wtf they are talking about.
Like do you even realize just how effin strong 500 weapon and spell damage above 50 % stamina or magicka is? Especially on redguard?
Also passives like adrenaline rush worthless? Please.
The whole post is just a conglomerate of ***.
ok at 75% stam that good?0 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What i found to be true is the first few words people say when they don;t know wtf they are talking about.
Like do you even realize just how effin strong 500 weapon and spell damage above 50 % stamina or magicka is? Especially on redguard?
Also passives like adrenaline rush worthless? Please.
The whole post is just a conglomerate of ***.
ok at 75% stam that good?
at 100% stam + 100 WD
at 99% stam +99 WD
etc
I could live with that0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamina Recov>>>> any type of reduction (TRUST ME)
No I don't trust you. Please provide some maths as supporting evidence. Don't worry, I already did the maths for you earlier.
Long post explaining the difference between Bosmer and Redguard here along with maths:Let's do the maths.
Redguards get an effective 380 stamina recovery out of Adrenaline Rush. Bosmer gain 258 proper recovery. Of course we need to add 20% from Major Endurance to that and another 28% from wearing 7 pieces of medium armor and we get...
258*1.48 = 381.84 for noCP PvP (and Battlegrounds) and 258*1.63= 420,54 for everything with CP.
Now we need to adjust for Martial Training. For that we take the two skills almost every stam dps uses in their rotation, those being Endless Hail and Poison Injection.
Maths:Note: I am taking the values straight from my Bosmer Warden and I am not running NMA. Endless Hail morph, because it favors Bosmer.
Poison Injection: 1998/10 - (1998*0.92)/10= 199.8 - 183.8 = 16
Endless Hail: 2597/12 - (2597*0.92)/12 = 216.4 - 199.1 = 17.3
Now we have the stamina saved per second, but not the effective recovery, since recovery happens every two seconds.
So we need to multiply those by two.
Redguards get 66.6 additional effective recovery when using Endless Hail and Poison Injection. Adding those to the 380 from before, they get 446.6 effective recovery. Versus the 420.54 effective recovery Bosmer get, they actually leave with more stamina than Bosmer. Of course whenever a Redguard lets their adrenaline rush lapse, this value is lowered, making it more even between them. Under ideal conditions, not necessarily dummy conditions, Redguard is better in PvE than Bosmer. So the better the player, the better the Redguard.
Paradoxically this makes Redguards superior to Bosmer on Bow setups where it's easier for Redguards to proc their Adrenaline Rush immediately in addition to using Snipe as a spammable, which has not even been factored into the calculation yet.
As for PvP the difference is much less clear. First of all not everyone in PvP is running 7 pieces of Medium armor. Most people are using heavy armor, where Redguards clearly have better sustain. Then there is stamina recovery being completely negated when blocking and sprinting, which you do in PvP more than in PvE. In no-CP a single weapon skill will already make Redguards have more effective stamina recovery.
But there are also a lot of skills and passives buffing recovery, like Continous Attack, Battle Rush and Momentum. Setups using a lot of weapon abilities will prefer Redguard, especially Snipe because of the ease of use it allows for proccing Adrenaline Rush while Bosmer look the best on Two-Handed setups due to Momentum and Battle Rush.
Although it cannot be said with certainty, it looks to me like Redguard is better in noCP PvP and Battlegrounds and worse in CP PvP.
If the build has 5 pieces heavy armor or relies heavily on weapon abilities, like stamSorcs or Snipe spammers, Redguard is better.
If the build has 5 pieces medium armor and uses a two-handed weapon for momentum and execute only, Bosmer is better.
What you are right about is that Redguard is not good compared to Orc, Dunmer and Khajiit, because sustain is abundant. This is true for Bosmer as well, because they too have only obsolete sustain and cannot make use of their Penetration in PvE.
It annoys me when people want to prove how bad Redguard is by claiming that Bosmer is so much better when the two are actually very even and sitting in the same boat, which has not only been supported by math but also through dps testing.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What they could do is make it so the Redguard has the mirror of the Breton Magicka cost decrease passive in the form of Decreased Stamina costs by 7% at Max rank. What this would do is make it the counter part to the Breton. So it would be a good Stam Race for reduced Stamina Costs.
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »What they could do is make it so the Redguard has the mirror of the Breton Magicka cost decrease passive in the form of Decreased Stamina costs by 7% at Max rank. What this would do is make it the counter part to the Breton. So it would be a good Stam Race for reduced Stamina Costs.
@Thevampirenight That wouldn't work I think. Stamina costs in general are lower than magicka costs, which is why Bretons are pulling decent DPS in the first place and Bosmer and Redguards are not (compared to the BiS race).This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1
