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Ways they can make the Vampire Viable for every kind of build and give the players what they want.
Thevampirenight
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A lot of the feed back I've seen people given Zenimax about this is that the new Vampire feels bad, its lacking, its basically not useful anymore. There is no options for Healers. Its clear that the vampire needs a lot more to it. Here is the thing, I think Zenimax wants us to treat this more like an Online Rpg then an Mmorpg. They don't understand that players will in fact be very picky at times. If it looks like garbage they won't use it. They need options for their builds and playstyles that is the mmo and mmorpg way. To not offer that and people won't use the skill line they won't want to play as a vampire.
Here is how they make it viable and useful while also getting players to embrace the vampiric life style.
1.They need to return the extra magicka and stamina recovery. One people really liked this and it did help out players with their play styles but it should not return as the supernatural recovery passive. This should actually fit with the new Weakness. So ability cost increases for normal abilties is 3% 5% 8% 12% Magicka and stamina regen should be built into the Feed Passive and grant 3/5/8/12 Magicka/Stamina Recovery. So for example at stage four you would have 12% extra stamina and magicka recovery but your non vampiric abilties cost 12% More.
2. Eviscerate, should be done like this base ability costs magicka and does spell damage, one morph should be converted to a Stamina ability and the other one should remain a health cost ability. The Idea of this is making it useful for stamina, magicka and health builds. When Blood Scion is active. This ability could be converted to Vampiric Grip making it so becomes a ranged ability where you use Telekinisis to lift up your foe and crush/choke them. The idea of doing this is to add more to the vampiric play style. Make it feel somewhat like the Vampire magic used by the Vampire Lords in Skyrim.
3. Blood Frenzy in its current form feels nothing like a Vampiric ability. It however does feel like committing suicide for power. Its like those two guys in Morrowind and Skyrim Dragonborn, That thought they can fly using a magical scroll they fly alright but then they fall to their death so that is what this ability is its the biggest joke of an ability in Tes. This ability fits right into that joke mold. Its not vampiric at all in its current state so its as stupid as those two npcs that though they could fly and go splat its that type of ability. Nothing about that feels vampiric to me. What should be done is this. It should be converted into an ability that is useful for all play styles and it should work and scale based off your vampiric stages but at the cost of you have to feed to use it. If your stage one it won't work at all your barred from using it.
Here is how it should work the higher your stage the most it grants. So at Stage four it would grant 400 spell damage with the Power is Blood base ability, Blood Aegis 400 Impen and 400 increased healing output and and Blood Frenzy 400 weapon damage. At Stage 3 300 Spell Damage for PoB 300 Impen and increased Healing output for BA and 300 Weapon damage for BF. Stage two 200 Spell Damage PoB 200 inpen and healing output BA and 200 Weapon damage BF. Also to make it look more vampiric the ability should give you glowing red eyes. I know the one mages guild ability use to give you glowing eyes. So the idea is to put into this glowing red eyes on top of the animation they put in to make it look and feel more vampiric.
Now how this toggle would work is based on t timer for the vampire stages. So when in stage four each second would take off 30 minutes. Stage three it would take off 20 minutes, stage two it would take off 15 minutes per second. So the idea here is this the higher the stage the shorter it lasts before going into a less powerful form of the buff this is for balancing. Another it would give incentive to feed because the more your fed the more effective this ability would be. So at Stage 4 for each hour it would last two seconds. 4x2 is 8 so something around 7 to 8 seconds this ability can last for. With the full amount of 400, then would stage three each hour would be three seconds. So 3x4 is 12 so it would last for 12 seconds before it switches to stage 2. Stage two having it toggled on would take 15 minutes off your vampiric stage each second. So for each hour that is 4 seconds. So 4x4 is 16. So if you wanted to you can keep this on for 36 seconds and end up at stage one and have to go find necks to feed on so you can once more use the ability.
You noticed I called the base ability Power of Blood, One of the Morphs with Weapons Damage only Blood Frenzy and Blood Aegis there is a reason for why I'm calling them this. The idea is really neat for what each one can do and so the names fit with it. Power of Blood is meant for Magicka Dps, Blood Aegis, protecting allies tanking and healing. Blood Frenzy Stamina Dps.
Power of Blood, casting it costs 5000 magicka to toggle it on. While having it active, you can use Materialize a form of Vampiric Gap Closer. To keep it so you can toggle it on and off while also using it as an ability that you can cast while its active. The toggle off should be considered a synergy to make it easier. So the Idea is to tie in the Old Materialize ability that comes from the Ultimate they are getting rid of into Power of Blood. So the Power of the Blood is meant for a Magicka Dps Build.
Blood Frenzy, casting it would cost 5000 stamina to toggle it on. The reason for calling it this Blood Frenzy is that you go into like a vampiric rage mode that increases your strength. You become a Frenzied Berserker. While toggled on you have the power to call forth stalagmites from the ground to impale foes. I seen Npcs use this ability in Greymoor and It really cool. felt it s neat. So the idea is adding ability as a Stamina ability. Plus bats and caves, and caves have stalagmites. So its really fitting for the nature of the Vampire to have this power.
Blood Aegis, Costs 5000 Health to toggle on. The idea of this ability is its a support ability its meant for helping shield and protect allies while having it toggled on able to heal your allies more effectively as well as it being useful to help you tank while also its active ability would be a support ability to help keep your allies alive. So its more like a morph for support, tanking and healing builds. The idea for the ability this morph grants is Is inspired by the Harkon Shield ability seen in Dawnguard. You can't use this ability on yourself. As the role of Blood Aegis is to shield and heal others fitting the role of support and healing. What this ability would do is cast a Blood Shield on an Ally while the Ally has the shield on them they heal for whatever damage they take along with being healed by the blood. So its a 5000 damage shield that heals 5000 damage plus whatever damage the person took. So the idea is this ability is shielding but also healing your allies however the Draw Back is you can't use this on yourself and that is to make it fit the role of the Blood Aegis.
4. Vampiric Drain this ability is very lacking compared to the old one however there is things that can be done with it. One benefit of the new animations is it works similar to the radiant destruction ability. So you can animation cancel it out from what I understand or just use it and just light attack and well you can still use your abilties while using this.
Base Vampiric Drain should drain health and stamina and do the damage it does now but with bigger resource returns the reason for this is to make the ability more useful. This ability would cost Magicka but your getting health and Stamina back.
Drain Vigor should be converted into a stamina ability and called Debilitating Drain. You do a great amount of Disease damage to the target so it feeble them as well as drains from them. The reason for doing this is because Stamina Vampires could use something. Plus as you have noticed I have put it as the ability and the morphs use different pools this allows for more build diversity.
Then the next morph should be converted so it gives you back magicka instead of health but at the cost of your health.This morph should be renamed and called Drain Power. You drain a targets magicka but this ability would draw from your health pool instead of your magicka one in order for you to cast it requires it. but also have the benefit of draining ultimate too from the target so you can get 8 ultimate from the target plus a great amount of Magicka. I say eight because it should be good enough that players will want to use it.
Also all forms of Vampiric Drain when used in while in Blood Scion form. Grant 4 extra seconds in Blood Scion Form however this can only happen every 5 seconds. So Vampiric Drain should be the go to must have for a Blood Scion in order to keep up the form.
5. Hypnotic Gaze, this ability is very good the way it is but one thing that bothers me about it is we can' even use it to feed on our targets. So the idea for this is when a target is below say like 25% Health when you use Hypnotic Gaze on the enemy. If its a proper humaniod we can finish them off by feeding on them. The reason for this is why can't a vampire weaken a foe then hyptonize them so the vampire can chow them to death? Also this little feature should be restricted to npcs only. So making it so it can't work on another player. So basically the Finisher move would be a pve feature. However that pve feature could and should work on keep guards so in pvp if you want to quickly finish them off get them below 25% and munch down on the target after hypnotizing them. Also when in Blood Scion form you feed on a target using hypnotic Gaze. The Blood Scion form should be extended by this so you can extend it by feeding and vampiric drain. The time granted should at least be 15 seconds per feed.
6. Mist Form same thing with the Magicka, Stamin and Health Dynamic can be used for this ability. Normal Mist form Unmorphed this should be a Magickal ability. The feature of it would be that mist dash attack seen in the Trailer you do that by clicking x. The reason why I feel this should be done is players actually liked it and it would make the ability feel more like the Vampires seen in the Trailer. It would be a Dps/Tanking ability.
Elusive Mist, now this ability wouldn't have the Mist Dash it would work like it does. However it should be converted into a Stamina ability. So it would cast stamina to keep toggled on instead of Magicka. Blood Mist, this ability should cost health however the health you get back still heals you more then the cost however this ability should also be converted into an ability that heals allies too. So Allies standing near you would be healed by this. So you can do a good amount of damage get a lot of health back and heal your allies. The idea of doing this is to make it so Healers have more options. The Blood Mist would scale off health but it would still be beneficial to those that like to heal. It could even be a new form of healing.
So what do you think do you feel this is a much better Vampire then the one we are getting? Should they do something like this to the skill line? What are your thoughts?
Edited by Thevampirenight on May 21, 2020 8:52AM Here is how they make it viable and useful while also getting players to embrace the vampiric life style.
1.They need to return the extra magicka and stamina recovery. One people really liked this and it did help out players with their play styles but it should not return as the supernatural recovery passive. This should actually fit with the new Weakness. So ability cost increases for normal abilties is 3% 5% 8% 12% Magicka and stamina regen should be built into the Feed Passive and grant 3/5/8/12 Magicka/Stamina Recovery. So for example at stage four you would have 12% extra stamina and magicka recovery but your non vampiric abilties cost 12% More.
2. Eviscerate, should be done like this base ability costs magicka and does spell damage, one morph should be converted to a Stamina ability and the other one should remain a health cost ability. The Idea of this is making it useful for stamina, magicka and health builds. When Blood Scion is active. This ability could be converted to Vampiric Grip making it so becomes a ranged ability where you use Telekinisis to lift up your foe and crush/choke them. The idea of doing this is to add more to the vampiric play style. Make it feel somewhat like the Vampire magic used by the Vampire Lords in Skyrim.
3. Blood Frenzy in its current form feels nothing like a Vampiric ability. It however does feel like committing suicide for power. Its like those two guys in Morrowind and Skyrim Dragonborn, That thought they can fly using a magical scroll they fly alright but then they fall to their death so that is what this ability is its the biggest joke of an ability in Tes. This ability fits right into that joke mold. Its not vampiric at all in its current state so its as stupid as those two npcs that though they could fly and go splat its that type of ability. Nothing about that feels vampiric to me. What should be done is this. It should be converted into an ability that is useful for all play styles and it should work and scale based off your vampiric stages but at the cost of you have to feed to use it. If your stage one it won't work at all your barred from using it.
Here is how it should work the higher your stage the most it grants. So at Stage four it would grant 400 spell damage with the Power is Blood base ability, Blood Aegis 400 Impen and 400 increased healing output and and Blood Frenzy 400 weapon damage. At Stage 3 300 Spell Damage for PoB 300 Impen and increased Healing output for BA and 300 Weapon damage for BF. Stage two 200 Spell Damage PoB 200 inpen and healing output BA and 200 Weapon damage BF. Also to make it look more vampiric the ability should give you glowing red eyes. I know the one mages guild ability use to give you glowing eyes. So the idea is to put into this glowing red eyes on top of the animation they put in to make it look and feel more vampiric.
Now how this toggle would work is based on t timer for the vampire stages. So when in stage four each second would take off 30 minutes. Stage three it would take off 20 minutes, stage two it would take off 15 minutes per second. So the idea here is this the higher the stage the shorter it lasts before going into a less powerful form of the buff this is for balancing. Another it would give incentive to feed because the more your fed the more effective this ability would be. So at Stage 4 for each hour it would last two seconds. 4x2 is 8 so something around 7 to 8 seconds this ability can last for. With the full amount of 400, then would stage three each hour would be three seconds. So 3x4 is 12 so it would last for 12 seconds before it switches to stage 2. Stage two having it toggled on would take 15 minutes off your vampiric stage each second. So for each hour that is 4 seconds. So 4x4 is 16. So if you wanted to you can keep this on for 36 seconds and end up at stage one and have to go find necks to feed on so you can once more use the ability.
You noticed I called the base ability Power of Blood, One of the Morphs with Weapons Damage only Blood Frenzy and Blood Aegis there is a reason for why I'm calling them this. The idea is really neat for what each one can do and so the names fit with it. Power of Blood is meant for Magicka Dps, Blood Aegis, protecting allies tanking and healing. Blood Frenzy Stamina Dps.
Power of Blood, casting it costs 5000 magicka to toggle it on. While having it active, you can use Materialize a form of Vampiric Gap Closer. To keep it so you can toggle it on and off while also using it as an ability that you can cast while its active. The toggle off should be considered a synergy to make it easier. So the Idea is to tie in the Old Materialize ability that comes from the Ultimate they are getting rid of into Power of Blood. So the Power of the Blood is meant for a Magicka Dps Build.
Blood Frenzy, casting it would cost 5000 stamina to toggle it on. The reason for calling it this Blood Frenzy is that you go into like a vampiric rage mode that increases your strength. You become a Frenzied Berserker. While toggled on you have the power to call forth stalagmites from the ground to impale foes. I seen Npcs use this ability in Greymoor and It really cool. felt it s neat. So the idea is adding ability as a Stamina ability. Plus bats and caves, and caves have stalagmites. So its really fitting for the nature of the Vampire to have this power.
Blood Aegis, Costs 5000 Health to toggle on. The idea of this ability is its a support ability its meant for helping shield and protect allies while having it toggled on able to heal your allies more effectively as well as it being useful to help you tank while also its active ability would be a support ability to help keep your allies alive. So its more like a morph for support, tanking and healing builds. The idea for the ability this morph grants is Is inspired by the Harkon Shield ability seen in Dawnguard. You can't use this ability on yourself. As the role of Blood Aegis is to shield and heal others fitting the role of support and healing. What this ability would do is cast a Blood Shield on an Ally while the Ally has the shield on them they heal for whatever damage they take along with being healed by the blood. So its a 5000 damage shield that heals 5000 damage plus whatever damage the person took. So the idea is this ability is shielding but also healing your allies however the Draw Back is you can't use this on yourself and that is to make it fit the role of the Blood Aegis.
4. Vampiric Drain this ability is very lacking compared to the old one however there is things that can be done with it. One benefit of the new animations is it works similar to the radiant destruction ability. So you can animation cancel it out from what I understand or just use it and just light attack and well you can still use your abilties while using this.
Base Vampiric Drain should drain health and stamina and do the damage it does now but with bigger resource returns the reason for this is to make the ability more useful. This ability would cost Magicka but your getting health and Stamina back.
Drain Vigor should be converted into a stamina ability and called Debilitating Drain. You do a great amount of Disease damage to the target so it feeble them as well as drains from them. The reason for doing this is because Stamina Vampires could use something. Plus as you have noticed I have put it as the ability and the morphs use different pools this allows for more build diversity.
Then the next morph should be converted so it gives you back magicka instead of health but at the cost of your health.This morph should be renamed and called Drain Power. You drain a targets magicka but this ability would draw from your health pool instead of your magicka one in order for you to cast it requires it. but also have the benefit of draining ultimate too from the target so you can get 8 ultimate from the target plus a great amount of Magicka. I say eight because it should be good enough that players will want to use it.
Also all forms of Vampiric Drain when used in while in Blood Scion form. Grant 4 extra seconds in Blood Scion Form however this can only happen every 5 seconds. So Vampiric Drain should be the go to must have for a Blood Scion in order to keep up the form.
5. Hypnotic Gaze, this ability is very good the way it is but one thing that bothers me about it is we can' even use it to feed on our targets. So the idea for this is when a target is below say like 25% Health when you use Hypnotic Gaze on the enemy. If its a proper humaniod we can finish them off by feeding on them. The reason for this is why can't a vampire weaken a foe then hyptonize them so the vampire can chow them to death? Also this little feature should be restricted to npcs only. So making it so it can't work on another player. So basically the Finisher move would be a pve feature. However that pve feature could and should work on keep guards so in pvp if you want to quickly finish them off get them below 25% and munch down on the target after hypnotizing them. Also when in Blood Scion form you feed on a target using hypnotic Gaze. The Blood Scion form should be extended by this so you can extend it by feeding and vampiric drain. The time granted should at least be 15 seconds per feed.
6. Mist Form same thing with the Magicka, Stamin and Health Dynamic can be used for this ability. Normal Mist form Unmorphed this should be a Magickal ability. The feature of it would be that mist dash attack seen in the Trailer you do that by clicking x. The reason why I feel this should be done is players actually liked it and it would make the ability feel more like the Vampires seen in the Trailer. It would be a Dps/Tanking ability.
Elusive Mist, now this ability wouldn't have the Mist Dash it would work like it does. However it should be converted into a Stamina ability. So it would cast stamina to keep toggled on instead of Magicka. Blood Mist, this ability should cost health however the health you get back still heals you more then the cost however this ability should also be converted into an ability that heals allies too. So Allies standing near you would be healed by this. So you can do a good amount of damage get a lot of health back and heal your allies. The idea of doing this is to make it so Healers have more options. The Blood Mist would scale off health but it would still be beneficial to those that like to heal. It could even be a new form of healing.
So what do you think do you feel this is a much better Vampire then the one we are getting? Should they do something like this to the skill line? What are your thoughts?
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
Ways they can make the Vampire Viable for every kind of build and give the players what they want. 56 votes
Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.
17%
10 votes
Yes it should be done like this but in another way(Post your idea)
5%
3 votes
No Vampires should be kept the way they are releasing them for Greymoor.
51%
29 votes
Other
25%
14 votes
2
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TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So you want everyone to be a Vampire huh?
NO, I welcome the decrease in numbers this change will bring.19 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »So you want everyone to be a Vampire huh?
NO, I welcome the decrease in numbers this change will bring.
Of course not, even with these benefits there will be many that won't use it because of the ability cost weakness and the no health regen at stage four. There would be reduced numbers either way. Because of the fact you have to maintain it. Its not just a passive bonus boost anymore. But I would like them to do it in a way that makes vampires not garbage and actually viable for a chapter that involves them. Plus make them feel like a true vampire.
Edited by Thevampirenight on May 21, 2020 7:55AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.3 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am passionate about Vampires in ESO, but that was a really long read and Ive not finished my morning coffee, so forgive me for not reading it all.
I do not think it is/was a good idea for everyone to be able to choose to be a vampire just for some passive bonuses to their character.
Like it or not, what the changes have done is make it so that if you want to be a vampire, you kinda have go play as a vampire and I think this is positive. If you want to be a WW, you have to be a WW. We now have a similar situation with vampire, all be it done in different way.
Vampirism is no longer to passively buff your character, I hope whatever changes may come, it stays that way.
.Edited by Grianasteri on May 21, 2020 8:25AM16 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.Well the stuff I suggested does have serious draw backs.
Health Recovery is fully stunted at stage four to have the best recovery bonus would require being that stage. To use the very good Blood Frenzy Alternative which better fits what the vampire is by the way. Would require constant feeding to fuel it. As it would drop you down to stage 1 if your not careful with it. It actually requires you to feed to use as you can't use it in stage one. Which would be the safest version and stage two might be used a lot however they still would have to feed. To many that wouldn't be worth it.
There still is that ability cost weakness and fire weakness not to mention fighters guild and that one enchantment that does heavy damage to them.
However the stuff I suggested gives it means to be used for Stamina or Magic builds. It does give it options so you can maintain the Blood Scion form if you wish. It also gives you options for healers and tanks if they wanted to go that way but the draw backs would still be heavy and it also gives it a more viable full vampire skill bar option because the skills are better fit for the vampire playstyle then whatever they came up with. It gives options to allow to feed without sneaking. You can go even use a full Stamina build using just vampire stamina skills. Plus have viable Magic vampire builds as well using just vampire skills.
Of course it can be balanced out so its not the best in slot.
Edited by Thevampirenight on May 21, 2020 8:44AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbh the statistical Vampire Abilities are ok from my view, whilst I understand it makes Vamp impractical from a Stamina perspective there are ways and builds to include this in most Magicka classes as long as you except that you are a Vampire first and your class second.
My chief gripe is the aesthetics of Blood Scion and the lack of a fast travel/mount/sprint cloud of bats transformation.0 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭I don't have opinions about the specific skills in the revamp, but I've hated being given the choice to be a vamp or come up short. Whether or not details need adjusting, I'm very pleased to see them move in this direction.6 -
Mumbles_the_Tank✭✭✭I really don’t understand why all this stamina Vampire pushback - it makes no sense within the context of ESO by design at all.
Regardless - the rework is bad and Blood for Blood has already become mandatory anyone wishing to do competitive dps on certain magicka classes. Suggesting that this happen for stamina specs as well is just moronic.4 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »I really don’t understand why all this stamina Vampire pushback - it makes no sense within the context of ESO by design at all.
Regardless - the rework is bad and Blood for Blood has already become mandatory anyone wishing to do competitive dps on certain magicka classes. Suggesting that this happen for stamina specs as well is just moronic.
I don't see how Blood For Blood is mandatory. Many abilties in this game players can use. People just restrict themselves to much.PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭OtherWhy does it have to be viable for every build/every kind of build? Maybe it's better that it's focused on specific kinds of builds instead, which is, I believe, the reason for the changes? Instead of "I'm a vampire, because I can bite you and have these passives" it's "I'm a vampire, and people will be able to tell", amongst other things.
Other, because I don't care, but I can say that "giving players what they want" is impossible, because, as players we don't all want the same things. At the current state of the poll, it's giving a very clear indication of that.5 -
santhoranb16_ESO✭✭✭No Vampires should be kept the way they are releasing them for Greymoor.Vampire should be an interesting playstyle, that you shall choose for. If you play vampire, that should feel rewarding. But then you _have_ to choose. Not all for everything. It still feels like it was the common "i'm vamp for the buffs, but not interested in playing vamp" method that gives now the new vampire changes the negative touch.
It shouldnt be an offer for all, as its an optional choice, and if it would offer something for everybodies playstyle, well then everyone again wants to be one to gain that offers...Edited by santhoranb16_ESO on May 21, 2020 3:11PM0 -
madman65✭✭✭✭Myself, i`ll be getting the cure. The only reason I became a Vampire is for the Magicka Recovery. In my opinion, I think the Vampire skill line will turn out to be for PVP. Good luck all.4 -
XomRhoK✭✭✭✭✭Yes it should be done like this but in another way(Post your idea)I agree with overall directions of your thoughts: usefullness for magicka and stamina, healer, dds and tanks; prolongation of transformation with Vampiric Drain; feeding in combat; vampire skills decrease vampirism stages; more vampiric feel of skills and gameplay. But i have another point of view on details.
Now i am writing this point of view on vampirism and vampire skills and will post it today or tomorrow. But it will be more of an overhaul, for my personal pleasure, with a little hope for second blood line.
All my feedback and suggestion about ZOS's changes to vampirism i already leaved at PTS forum, with no reaction from ZOS.
If ZOS can't handle balance doesn't mean that suggesting stamina spec is moronic.Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »I really don’t understand why all this stamina Vampire pushback - it makes no sense within the context of ESO by design at all.
Regardless - the rework is bad and Blood for Blood has already become mandatory anyone wishing to do competitive dps on certain magicka classes. Suggesting that this happen for stamina specs as well is just moronic.
Edited by XomRhoK on May 21, 2020 4:27PM1 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherThey are done listening to feedback, gathered that much after that show
I would of liked to see vampires amped up a bit and made for magic classes. It would be a fun scenario, since the fluffy WWs are best on Stamina classes in PvP. And it makes sense.
All this every class should be able to do everything, has not worked out.
All I see is less class identity and more and more homogenization of things, making for bland gameplay.
1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherI'd just like it if they got rid of that non-vampire cost increase at stage 1 at the very least. It should be the most "normal" stage for a vampire and you shouldn't have such a disadvantage that pushes you to claw people's face out with Eviscerate.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Stamina Builds can still make use of Unnatural Movement, Dark Stalker and the Ultimate plus that morph which restores a small bit of stamina for Vampiric Drain, also the fact mist form is toggle means a stamina build can use it much easier then the one currently on live.2 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭No Vampires should be kept the way they are releasing them for Greymoor.The new Vampire will feel like a curse with power. It is a power at a COST. And this IS right.
You can deal tons of damage at the cost of possibility of being one-shot.
Henceforth playing as a vampire will be a sacrifice - a different playstyle. No longer will it be just "Undeath" + "Mist Form"
ZOS made the right choice.
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Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »So you want everyone to be a Vampire huh?
NO, I welcome the decrease in numbers this change will bring.
This way outside RP why would anyone be a vampire.2 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭If your point is be a vampire then play like a vampire then don't be out playing during the daytime on ESO....don't be kind of a vampire be all in.0 -
Lintashi✭✭✭✭✭Drammanoth wrote: »The new Vampire will feel like a curse with power. It is a power at a COST. And this IS right.
You can deal tons of damage at the cost of possibility of being one-shot.
Henceforth playing as a vampire will be a sacrifice - a different playstyle. No longer will it be just "Undeath" + "Mist Form"
ZOS made the right choice.
If it launches like it is now, it will be curse allright. Vampires will be kicked out of vet content, as soon as party sees them. Why would someone take tank or healer with higher skill cost, more fire damage and less health regen, when you can take non vamp? Why would you take dps, who cannot be healed by healer when using certain ability? Welcome to rp only. Also, those changes contradict lore, and are illogical. Psijic, Undaunted skillines also have active abilities, but they do not make player to choose them at a cost to other abilities. I am fine with removing passive, but otherwise, vamps going to be one massive disaster, once everyone will try them on live.Edited by Lintashi on May 21, 2020 7:39PM3 -
XomRhoK✭✭✭✭✭Yes it should be done like this but in another way(Post your idea)Drammanoth wrote: »The new Vampire will feel like a curse with power. It is a power at a COST. And this IS right.
You can deal tons of damage at the cost of possibility of being one-shot.
Henceforth playing as a vampire will be a sacrifice - a different playstyle. No longer will it be just "Undeath" + "Mist Form"
ZOS made the right choice.
Is this really feels vampiric to you? To burst and be one shotted after? For me vampire is a sticky blood sucker parasite, which drain power and blood from enemy and is hard to get.
And in current ZOS changes i don't see a different playstyle maybe some fresh theorycrafting and build crafting, but not a new playstyle. Gankers, bombers and snipers already in game, new vampires changes will just make them more powerful.
And for PvE it may become just Blood Frenzy + MIst or Blood for Blood + Mist instead of Undeath + Mist.
Edited by XomRhoK on May 21, 2020 8:11PM2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherIs this really feels vampiric to you? To burst and be one shotted after? For me vampire is a sticky blood sucker parasite, which drain power and blood from enemy and is hard to get.
And in current ZOS changes i don't see a different playstyle maybe some fresh theorycrafting and build crafting, but not a new playstyle. Gankers, bombers and snipers already in game, new vampires changes will just make them more powerful.
And for PvE it may become just Blood Frenzy + MIst or Blood for Blood + Mist instead of Undeath + Mist.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you. The whole "reverse execute" mechanics the devs are pushing vampires into doesn't feel very vampiric at all. Its like they heard "blood magic" and then looked to Hollywood and maybe the Secret World for inspiration as they copied that form of blood magic. The whole "hurt yourself to hurt your foe" mentality without realizing that TES vampire blood magic comes from the vampiric blood flowing in their veins. Like vampiric drain, summoning gargoyles, turning into a mist, controlling bats, etc, etc. Its all about siphoning your enemies life force to bolster your abilities, not your own.
To be honest if Eviscerate got more powerful based on how many times you hurt someone, or applied for example the bleeding status effect, then that'd feel more vampiric than what we are being given.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Twilanthe✭✭✭Sorry, 100% TL;DR
But my 2 cents is that Vampire should be a viable option that can be built around, but it shouldn't be something that everyone feels required to have as the meta, or even that certain builds feel they have to have.
Personally I would prefer if Vampire/Werewolf were flavorful and fun things that anyone could use if they wanted to regardless of their build or role. Something fun that changes the play style, but doesn't make or break a build.
Not that I have any suggestions on HOW to do that.Lüc - Argonian Necromancer Healer
PC-NA5 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherSorry, 100% TL;DR
But my 2 cents is that Vampire should be a viable option that can be built around, but it shouldn't be something that everyone feels required to have as the meta, or even that certain builds feel they have to have.
Personally I would prefer if Vampire/Werewolf were flavorful and fun things that anyone could use if they wanted to regardless of their build or role. Something fun that changes the play style, but doesn't make or break a build.
Not that I have any suggestions on HOW to do that.
Well when you begin thinking for a bit there are some ways to accomplish this.
On Live Stage 1 vampire is almost the equivalent of being a werewolf but not slotting the ultimate. Reason I say almost is because you can still equip vampire abilities and fighter's guild stuff still deals 20% more damage to you, but all the buffs and debuffs are non-existent. This is the stage you go to when you want to "turn off" vampirism but not cure it.
Here are 3 ideas I and a few other people have come up with.- Stage 1 works exactly as it does on Live with no debuffs and benefits for being one. If you want to pursue the vampire play style start eating people and progress your stage to receive the buffs and debuffs.
- Remove the non-vampiric ability cost debuff and ramp up the fire debuff even farther than it is on Live ((maybe 30-40% at stage 4)). This'll allow you some more freedom with your builds and give that risk vs reward factor the devs want.
- Make it so the non-vampiric cost increases only apply when you slot a vampire ability. The more you slot the more your non-vampire abilities cost. Of course this option is easily cheesed where you throw them all on one bar. Kind of like how people front bar certain sets like New Moon Acolyte.
PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »So you want everyone to be a Vampire huh?
NO, I welcome the decrease in numbers this change will bring.
Welcome in the increase in Werewolves.0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.Is this really feels vampiric to you? To burst and be one shotted after? For me vampire is a sticky blood sucker parasite, which drain power and blood from enemy and is hard to get.
And in current ZOS changes i don't see a different playstyle maybe some fresh theorycrafting and build crafting, but not a new playstyle. Gankers, bombers and snipers already in game, new vampires changes will just make them more powerful.
And for PvE it may become just Blood Frenzy + MIst or Blood for Blood + Mist instead of Undeath + Mist.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you. The whole "reverse execute" mechanics the devs are pushing vampires into doesn't feel very vampiric at all. Its like they heard "blood magic" and then looked to Hollywood and maybe the Secret World for inspiration as they copied that form of blood magic. The whole "hurt yourself to hurt your foe" mentality without realizing that TES vampire blood magic comes from the vampiric blood flowing in their veins. Like vampiric drain, summoning gargoyles, turning into a mist, controlling bats, etc, etc. Its all about siphoning your enemies life force to bolster your abilities, not your own.
To be honest if Eviscerate got more powerful based on how many times you hurt someone, or applied for example the bleeding status effect, then that'd feel more vampiric than what we are being given.
Yeah that is why I renamed the base ability of Blood Frenzy to Power of Blood in my post when posting about the ideas I had to make it viable for everyone that needs something for their build. I feel it should be changed is to make it exactly work from the Vampiric Blood flowing in their veins but also work on the blood you drink instead of your own blood. The idea is to make a vampire feel powerful but at a higher cost to use said ability. The requirement to actually feed to maintain its use and power. That the power gained from it doesn't last very long. Making it situational in some cases.
I just don't like the Blood Frenzy in its current form, its not vampiric and even if its op its still garbage. Even if its the best ability in the game its still garbage because its so unvampiric. My version is vampiric and makes you feel like a proper vampire. A Vampire drinks the blood of others that blood should empower them but at the cost of that power burning it out requiring more blood in order to use the ability again. It should not take from the Vampires own Life Force.
Edited by Thevampirenight on May 21, 2020 10:38PMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherThevampirenight wrote: »
Yeah that is why I renamed the base ability of Blood Frenzy to Power of Blood in my post when posting about the ideas I had to make it viable for everyone that needs something for their build. I feel it should be changed is to make it exactly work from the Vampiric Blood flowing in their veins but also work on the blood you drink instead of your own blood. The idea is to make a vampire feel powerful but at a higher cost to use said ability. The requirement to actually feed to maintain its use and power. That the power gained from it doesn't last very long. Making it situational in some cases.
I just don't like the Blood Frenzy in its current form, its not vampiric and even if its op its still garbage. Even if its the best ability in the game its still garbage because its so unvampiric. My version is vampiric and makes you feel like a proper vampire. A Vampire drinks the blood of others that blood should empower them but at the cost of that power burning it out requiring more blood in order to use the ability again. It should not take from the Vampires own Life Force.
If Blood Frenzy drained your vampire stage timer it'd make it more vampiric than it currently is. It'd also give us a way to more finely control which stage we're in since as it is on the PTS once you've bitten someone you have 0 ways in the vampire skill line to go back. You have to use Bloody Maras or that fountain furnishing to reduce your stage which feels really bad to be honest. Not everyone carries around those drinks and it'll make it quite awkward if you're in a dungeon and have to lower your stage because the fire damage is too high or you need to use non-vampiric abilities but keep running out of resources.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
ManM✭✭✭The ESO vampire, at stage 4, is meant to replicate a bloodfiend, not the powerful edgelord everyone wants. A bloodfiend. That's the trash mob that runs at you to slap you in overland content, which you herd into packs because it's a waste of a rotation to just kill one at a time. That's the design paradigm.
A bloodfiend doesn't have extra resource regen. Why would they need it? Blood is everything to them. That's what they need. A bloodfiend doesn't block, or weave rotations, or anything like that. They just desperately charge you and claw at you. When scared, they run away and hide. This is the Zenimax design philosophy for what a stage 4 player vampire is to be.
Does a bloodfiend heal others? No, they don't care. Does a bloodfiend lead others into battle and take a beating? Of course not. A bloodfiend is a selfish, single-minded creature, desperately needing blood (no regen on their own), and only concerned for their own self preservation. They take what they can, and if someone turns on them to hurt them, they run away and hide.
As a vampire, you don't get stronger or more effective by drinking blood... Instead, you become more of a bloodfiend. These proposed changes don't match Zenimax's core design principle for vampires, and I suspect that's why they have been ignoring such things in the PTS forum.5 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes this is how it should be done and they should make it so these ideas are actually added to the Game.The ESO vampire, at stage 4, is meant to replicate a bloodfiend, not the powerful edgelord everyone wants. A bloodfiend. That's the trash mob that runs at you to slap you in overland content, which you herd into packs because it's a waste of a rotation to just kill one at a time. That's the design paradigm.
A bloodfiend doesn't have extra resource regen. Why would they need it? Blood is everything to them. That's what they need. A bloodfiend doesn't block, or weave rotations, or anything like that. They just desperately charge you and claw at you. When scared, they run away and hide. This is the Zenimax design philosophy for what a stage 4 player vampire is to be.
Does a bloodfiend heal others? No, they don't care. Does a bloodfiend lead others into battle and take a beating? Of course not. A bloodfiend is a selfish, single-minded creature, desperately needing blood (no regen on their own), and only concerned for their own self preservation. They take what they can, and if someone turns on them to hurt them, they run away and hide.
As a vampire, you don't get stronger or more effective by drinking blood... Instead, you become more of a bloodfiend. These proposed changes don't match Zenimax's core design principle for vampires, and I suspect that's why they have been ignoring such things in the PTS forum.
Well Blood Fiends at least the ones I've seen seem to be more of a vampiric zombie, or even a Ghoul. Vampirism requires you to be alive for the transition to take hold. Blood Fiends are reanimated undead after being killed by a blood fiend and transforming into a zombie like blood drinking creature after. The only ones lucky enough to become Vampires in the Rivenspire Storyline are those that didn't die from a Blood Fiend but got infected by them.
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭I loved your ideas I’m going to try and make my vampire stamblade work either way I want players to be looking over there shoulders in pvp 😈0