Discussion about Hybrid builds in Greymoor (Malacath Band of Brutality and Stuhns Favor!)

MashmalloMan

I wanted to open up a discussion on the state of hybrid pvp builds in Greymoor that have seen 2 major buffs I get into near the bottom half of this post if you want to skip to the TLDR. Mainly having to do with Malacath Band, Stuhns Favor and tri-glyh enchantments. This is not exactly a build, just pointing out what I think would be the best options for Hybrids to use in Greymoor when picking things in their build to get maximum effectiveness while having no need for Pelinal's Aptitude and Medium Armor.

Thoughts on what to consider about making a hybrid build:

Typically, Hybrid builds relied on the set "Pelinal's Aptitude", but since its creation, the set has only been a valid option when stacking Weapon Damage in Medium Armor to get max effectiveness while offering no solution for the other stats hybrids need like Crit, Penetration and Max Resources. The set was made long before ZOS started making sets like New Moon that gave bonuses to both Magicka and Stamina builds.

What I will be focusing on are the options in the game that "double dip" their bonuses. What does this mean to me? Any bonus in the game that normally provides 1 bonus like 2-4 pieces having 129 weapon damage, 833 crit, 1096 stamina, etc, but instead giving you more than what that standard should. Whether it be 129 Weapon and Spell damage or a prismatic glyph offering 1.5x a single stamina/magicka/health glyph.

Here is what Pelinal's Aptitude gives, notice how not a single bonus double dips.
2 - Adds 1206 Maximum Health
3 - Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 - Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
5 - Your Spell and Weapon Damage both become the highest of the two values.

The biggest drawbacks of this set:

1. The 2-4 piece bonuses are very underwhelming, none of which double dip.
2. 5 piece bonus only serves to equalize Weapon/Spell damage with nothing additonal on top.
3. Weapon/Spell Crit is not equalized.
4. Weapon/Spell Penetration is not equalized.
5. Magicka/Stamina is not equalized.
6. To get the most value out of this set, you must use Medium Armor which does not provide universal bonuses in their passives, you're going to have better stamina sustain and crit chance while offering nothing towards magicka skills.

Here are obvious options that double dip:

• Armor: Heavy (Equal passives that effect defense, sustain when hit, increased sustain from heavy attacks based on weapon type, healing received, hp regen and max health). Medium/Light focus on stamina or magicka, not really both.
• Armor Enchantments: Prismatic Enchantments on all 7 pieces. Provides 1.5x the value by splitting the resource 3 ways.
• Mundus Stone: Lover (best choice) and Thief (not super useful in pvp, doesn't buff crit healing)
• Race: Dark Elf (best choice) and Kahjiit (hybrid, but focus on crit damage for pvp makes it the worse option)
• Weapon: Doesn't matter, the weapon power affects both, make sure it's Gold asap.
• Weapon Traits: Nirn/Precise/Sharpenned (front bar) and Infused Weapon Damage Enchantment (back bar).
• Food/Drink: Sugar Skulls is cheap, gold level (providing free hp regen, synergy with heavy armor) and under the "food" category providing higher value bonuses than the "drinks" category.

Options that don't double dip:

• Most mundus stones. Stick with the ones that do like Lover.
• Jewelry enchantments:
  • Weapon and spell damage are seperate enchantments giving half the value to anyone building for a hybrid not using Pelinial's Aptitude. Tri-regen glyphs have been introduced with Greymoor offering 1.5x the value of a normal regen enchantment, providing free hp regen (synergy with heavy armor). Since this is now an option, I suggest focussing your damage bonuses through the available sets, while utilizing some tri-regen glyphs until ZOS decides to create dual damage glyphs
• 64 Character stats: Unfortunately this can't be mitigated unless you consider health a "hyrbid" choice. I'd just put 32 stam and 32 magicka. Sugar Skulls food makes up for some of the drawbacks here since it's stat density is the highest in the game.
• Sets: No longer a problem now that ZOS has created multiple sets that double dip their 2-5 piece bonuses without any drawbacks, further making Pelinal's Aptitude obsolete.
• CP: Not enough points, there are diminishing returns, but the max cp is too low to make a big enough difference to justify spending your points in 2 seperate damage nodes. CP is usually where Hybrids fall behind which is why I recommend staying in no cp pvp where this is a non issue.

---

TLDR Solution:

So this is my recommendation for a pvp damage build that does not require Pelinal's Aptitude allowing you to utilize Heavy Armor hybrid like passives and cover the drawbacks of not having equalized crit chance, penetration, max resources and sustain through Medium Armor or even Light Armor passives. Your HP regen is not something to scoff at, it will be much higher with the below recommendations.

• Race: Dark Elf
• Food: Sugar Skulls.
• Stats: 32 stamina, 32 magicka or whatever you want really.
• Armor: 5 Heavy, 1 Med, 1 Light for 3x undaunted passive.
• Mundus: Lover
• Jewelry: Tri-glyph Regen Enchantments mixed with infused if resource regen is still too low. Triune is a great option too.
• Weapon Traits: Front bar Nirnhoned to boost heals, back bar infused weapon damage enchantment since it buffs both weapon/spell damage.
• Class, Armor Traits, Skills, etc all down to the user. Just aim for a way to get Major Brutality and Sorcery at the same time, Warden, Sorc, DK and NB can do this via class skills freeing up bar space and potions.

Malacath’s Band of Brutality – Ring
1 – Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot deal critical damage.

Thoughts:

With this ring, you no longer need to think about crit chance, they don't matter. In pvp, crit chance is already weaker due to increased crit resistance values so this is a no brainer. To maximize the potency of this ring, all other choices in your build should do everything to avoid crit chance bonuses if possible since they are completely wasted when using this set (crit healing still works however).

Stuhn’s Favor (Front bar weapon, 2H Sword)
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage & 129 Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1487 Physical Penetration & 1487 Spell Penetration
4 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage & 129 Spell Damage
5 – When you deal damage to an enemy who is Off Balance, your Physical Penetration and Spell Penetration is increased by 5312 for 10 seconds.

Thoughts:

Every single bonus in this set double dip's making this the highest density statiscal hybrid set in the game that ALSO happens to have 0 crit chance bonuses. If we calculate how much value this set provides based on typical 1 piece set bonuses like 129 weapon damage. The total comes out to 13.14x a 1 piece bonus, this does not begin to consider the fact that every bonus is the strongest type of bonus in the game via damage and penetration, not wasting 1 piece on max resources or crit chance.

The proc: Off balance is activated for 7s with a 15s CD at the end. The set does not have an internal CD and will refresh on any damage done to anyone with off balance. This means, in a 1v1 fight, you will have a maximum uptime of 17/22s or 77%. In any group fight, you can easily get this to 100% uptime. Only drawback is requiring offbalance, but if your choosing to be a hybrid build your most likely using 2H front bar for the higher total damage and Dizzy Swing making this a no brainer set. Get it. Some classes have other methods of off balance, so 2H is not a must, but it is available to everyone.

The final set is the most difficult to choose, here are the options I considered:

• Shacklebreaker - no crit chance, 2/4 pieces double dip.
• New Moon Acolyte - 1 crit bonus and increases cost for both resouce pools which are necessary (bigger hit than typical 1 main resource setup), 4/4 pieces double dip.
• Ancient Dragonguard - 1 crit bonus, 3/4 pieces double dip.
• Mechanical Acuity - entire set relies on crit dmg, 2/4 pieces double dip.
• Innate Axiom - 1 crit bonus, outclassed by New Moon only offering damage to class skills, 2/4 pieces double dip.
• Twice-Born Star - 0/4 pieces double dip, having 2 mundus stones would only help if there was a weapon/spell damage double dipping option. Lover should be used already and Thief is pointless with Malacath Band.

My final choice came down to Shacklebreaker or New Moon Acolyte. Shacklebreaker ending up on top for me.

Shacklebreaker (body/jewelry):
2 - Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 - Adds 129 Spell Damage
4 - Adds 129 Stamina Recovery, Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
5 - Adds 2000 Maximum Stamina, Adds 2000 Maximum Magicka

OR

New Moon Acolyte (body/jewelry):
2 - Adds 833 Weapon Critical & 833 Spell Critical (wasted)
3 - Adds 129 Weapon Damage & 129 Spell Damage
4 - Adds 1487 Physical Penetration & 1487 Spell Penetration
5 - Adds 481 Weapon Damage & Spell Damage. Increases the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

Thoughts:

Why are they somewhat equal for consideration, even though New Moon has crit? Shacklebreaker does not double dip its 2/3rd bonus meaning both sets actually have the same number of bonuses all things considered. The choice comes down to preference and sustain, since I suggested Sugar Skulls, Dark Elf and Tri-glyph enchants on jewelry as your only method of sustain, I feel like Shacklebreaker puts your final max resources and sustain at a reasonable level while New Moon won't, but both are good options.

Monster helmet or shoulder as final 1 piece:
Balorgh or Molag Kena: Adds 129 weapon damage and 129 spell damage.
OR
Domihaus: Adds 1096 stamina and 1096 magicka (Might be better option if using New Moon).

Honourable Mention: Stonekeeper, instead of providing 2x stats, it's 1.5x since it goes health/magicka/stamina. Health is already high with Heavy Armor.

Back Bar set could be anything so I won't make a recommendation, I'd go with BRP DW personally because I lean more towards melee builds.

Wing

sadly a lot of stuff is there but hybrid is held back by CP, as you have limited points and very specific CP nodes to invest in, split into various physical and spell nodes.

aside from CP, hybrid would be pretty viable.

zvavi

Wing wrote: »

sadly a lot of stuff is there but hybrid is held back by CP, as you have limited points and very specific CP nodes to invest in, split into various physical and spell nodes.

aside from CP, hybrid would be pretty viable.

If you read the post, it is PvP build, which means effective in no cp environments, duels, bg, no cp campaign.

MartiniDaniels

Oh it is amazing and it completely mirrors my thoughts. I'll also add vampire (stage3) into consideration, because you will have a lot of "free" double SD/WD + Undeath to compensate for healing/tankiness loss from going into penetration sets/mundus and dunmer.
Also vampire has a lot of magicka abilities which will benefit from high SD but main vampire's ability - mist - blocks magicka regeneration, so vampire hybrid with 3 triple cost reduction glyphs looks like interesting option. (i.e. stamina for main resource, magicka for burst damage when you have opportunity window)

Vietfox

Interesting. Just tried it on a sorc: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=237615
Didn't put much effort into it (6:30 am right now), but i guess it could be viable. The only thing i'm missing here is the snare removal.

PS: Doesn't let me add the penetration from Stuhns, so it should be 7423 + 5312

MashmalloMan

Wing wrote: »

sadly a lot of stuff is there but hybrid is held back by CP, as you have limited points and very specific CP nodes to invest in, split into various physical and spell nodes.

aside from CP, hybrid would be pretty viable.

Yeah I mentioned that. Don't bother with CP PvP as a hybrid and you'll have a much better time. Maybe the CP rework will address this issue, but sadly if we just had more points to spend, diminishing returns would inevitably effect focus builds enough for hybrids to start shining. Impossible in the current state of the game

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Oh it is amazing and it completely mirrors my thoughts. I'll also add vampire (stage3) into consideration, because you will have a lot of "free" double SD/WD + Undeath to compensate for healing/tankiness loss from going into penetration sets/mundus and dunmer.
Also vampire has a lot of magicka abilities which will benefit from high SD but main vampire's ability - mist - blocks magicka regeneration, so vampire hybrid with 3 triple cost reduction glyphs looks like interesting option. (i.e. stamina for main resource, magicka for burst damage when you have opportunity window)

Good points. Shame that vampire nullifies all the free HP Regen you get from 5 heavy, tri-regen glyphs, Sugar Skulls and tri-pots, but if your going with tri-cost reduction glyphs instead, then at least your not killing 1 of the benefits of tri-regen glyphs.

Also cost reduction glyphs work well with heavy armor since there isn't much -% cost reduction to be wasted (cost reduction glyphs lower the total cost of an ability and then -% cost is applied) and heavy armor misses out on the regen multipliers of med/light.

Might be tight on space as a hybrid, guess it depends what your looking for. Mist form would be nice for a hybrid.

MartiniDaniels

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

sadly a lot of stuff is there but hybrid is held back by CP, as you have limited points and very specific CP nodes to invest in, split into various physical and spell nodes.

aside from CP, hybrid would be pretty viable.

Yeah I mentioned that. Don't bother with CP PvP as a hybrid and you'll have a much better time. Maybe the CP rework will address this issue, but sadly if we just had more points to spend, diminishing returns would inevitably effect focus builds enough for hybrids to start shining. Impossible in the current state of the game

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Oh it is amazing and it completely mirrors my thoughts. I'll also add vampire (stage3) into consideration, because you will have a lot of "free" double SD/WD + Undeath to compensate for healing/tankiness loss from going into penetration sets/mundus and dunmer.
Also vampire has a lot of magicka abilities which will benefit from high SD but main vampire's ability - mist - blocks magicka regeneration, so vampire hybrid with 3 triple cost reduction glyphs looks like interesting option. (i.e. stamina for main resource, magicka for burst damage when you have opportunity window)

Good points. Shame that vampire nullifies all the free HP Regen you get from 5 heavy, tri-regen glyphs, Sugar Skulls and tri-pots, but if your going with tri-cost reduction glyphs instead, then at least your not killing 1 of the benefits of tri-regen glyphs.

Also cost reduction glyphs work well with heavy armor since there isn't much -% cost reduction to be wasted (cost reduction glyphs lower the total cost of an ability and then -% cost is applied) and heavy armor misses out on the regen multipliers of med/light.

Might be tight on space as a hybrid, guess it depends what your looking for. Mist form would be nice for a hybrid.

Well, stage3 won't nullify it (on live, health regen penalty is applied to base value), so with pot+heavy passives you'll still have some health regen from base+bewitched. Though it is notable downside of course.
Overall, new mystic items + stuhn's + vampire create a lot of possible combinations, which sparks interest in game for me maybe stamcro with fury+nma will still rule the day, but you know it is simply boring to do the same non-stop and use same build as everybody else.

MashmalloMan

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

sadly a lot of stuff is there but hybrid is held back by CP, as you have limited points and very specific CP nodes to invest in, split into various physical and spell nodes.

aside from CP, hybrid would be pretty viable.

Yeah I mentioned that. Don't bother with CP PvP as a hybrid and you'll have a much better time. Maybe the CP rework will address this issue, but sadly if we just had more points to spend, diminishing returns would inevitably effect focus builds enough for hybrids to start shining. Impossible in the current state of the game

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Oh it is amazing and it completely mirrors my thoughts. I'll also add vampire (stage3) into consideration, because you will have a lot of "free" double SD/WD + Undeath to compensate for healing/tankiness loss from going into penetration sets/mundus and dunmer.
Also vampire has a lot of magicka abilities which will benefit from high SD but main vampire's ability - mist - blocks magicka regeneration, so vampire hybrid with 3 triple cost reduction glyphs looks like interesting option. (i.e. stamina for main resource, magicka for burst damage when you have opportunity window)

Good points. Shame that vampire nullifies all the free HP Regen you get from 5 heavy, tri-regen glyphs, Sugar Skulls and tri-pots, but if your going with tri-cost reduction glyphs instead, then at least your not killing 1 of the benefits of tri-regen glyphs.

Also cost reduction glyphs work well with heavy armor since there isn't much -% cost reduction to be wasted (cost reduction glyphs lower the total cost of an ability and then -% cost is applied) and heavy armor misses out on the regen multipliers of med/light.

Might be tight on space as a hybrid, guess it depends what your looking for. Mist form would be nice for a hybrid.

Well, stage3 won't nullify it (on live, health regen penalty is applied to base value), so with pot+heavy passives you'll still have some health regen from base+bewitched. Though it is notable downside of course.
Overall, new mystic items + stuhn's + vampire create a lot of possible combinations, which sparks interest in game for me maybe stamcro with fury+nma will still rule the day, but you know it is simply boring to do the same non-stop and use same build as everybody else.

I have yet to fully test that theory out. Someone told me the same thing on live so I decided to continue using troll king with vamp stage 3, 5 heavy, tri pots, Sorc, steed mundus and sugar skulls. It seemed to be effecting all my hp regen, not just the base 500 or so you get. I noticed a large decline, but I also didn't do the math so I'm not exactly sure.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something though.. haven't tested it in awhile.

HP Regen isn't that important anyway, but with the things I mentioned you should be able to hit well over 2k which is pretty significant for no HP Regen investment at all. Vampire looks pretty solid hybrids though.

The nice part about hybrids is being able to cover the things that typically hold a focussed build back. For example, a Stam Sorc has a lack of a burst/delayed burst which you can now use via crystal frags/curse, you can also have double executes if you want via endless fury and 2h/dw. Most mag classes don't have an execute you can now get via 2h/dw. That's why I can't wait to see what people do with it.

Vietfox wrote: »

Interesting. Just tried it on a sorc: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=237615
Didn't put much effort into it (6:30 am right now), but i guess it could be viable. The only thing i'm missing here is the snare removal.

PS: Doesn't let me add the penetration from Stuhns, so it should be 7423 + 5312

With Stuhns, Lover (no divines), Nirn 2H instead of Sharpened and Shacklebreaker instead of New Moon I calculated 9551 physical and spell penetration. Very solid.

Unfortunately, Sorc's, Crit surge and Malacath Band don't mix too well. I think a Hybrid Sorc may be better off using Rally and Spell Power pots or Degeneration to cover Major Brutality and Sorcery. This gives a little more appeal to NB, DK and Warden that can proc them through 1 skill instead of 2.

Dedicated snare removal isn't entirely necessary with streak or bol imo. Snares are much weaker than they use to be.

Hotdog_23

Just curious why go heavy armor instead of medium. Keep going back and forth myself and can’t decided between the two.

MashmalloMan

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Just curious why go heavy armor instead of medium. Keep going back and forth myself and can’t decided between the two.

If we assume your aiming to use 50/50 stamina/magicka skills, than 1 side of the coin is being neglected while the other thrives by choosing medium or light. Some hybrid builds only use like 1-3 magicka skills and for them, it might be better to use medium because of that fact.

In PvP, I aim to create balanced builds, that means sustain, damage, survivability and utility. Hybrids in PvE are much harder to get right, CP almost completely ruins it.

Going heavy armor is not a sacrifice for a hybrid, the passives serve Stamina or Magicka well as long as you use your other set combinations for damage dealing/sustain. You will have better sustain for 2 resources via damage taken since Medium/Light only focus on 1 skill type or the other. There is only 10 skill slots meaning instead of -10% cost reduction affecting most of your skills, it's affecting half of them.. Better healing than medium because your no longer stacking weapon damage as high as possible with sets like fury and new moon, you have to focus a good deal on upping max resources. Better defense. This also hinges on using Malacath Band of Brutality which removes Crit chance, a staple of both medium and light.

That's how I look at it at least.

MartiniDaniels

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Just curious why go heavy armor instead of medium. Keep going back and forth myself and can’t decided between the two.

Yes, I have same thoughts. Nobody forces us to have SD=WD. It might be stam-oriented hybrid with WD higher then SD, but SD still considerable to make things like molten whip, embers or vampire abilities usable. Or vice versa magicka-oriented hybrid in light armor, where stamina is used for healing (vigor, rally) while magicka is used for damage and penetration is stacked for magicka side (ele drain + light armor passive). Cost reduction of medium armor or light armor will help to offset vampire downsides too.

@MashmalloMan about health recovery - I checked that all with calculator on my last stamDK build with 7th legion and bewitched skulls, while switching vampire stages, drop between stage 2 and stage 3 was exactly 25% of base (stacked) recovery before 20% from 5 heavy and 20% from pot and 10% from DK passives. This was in U24 though, maybe ZOS stealth-changed something.

Chilly-McFreeze

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Unfortunately, Sorc's, Crit surge and Malacath Band don't mix too well. I think a Hybrid Sorc may be better off using Rally and Spell Power pots or Degeneration to cover Major Brutality and Sorcery. This gives a little more appeal to NB, DK and Warden that can proc them through 1 skill instead of 2.

Dedicated snare removal isn't entirely necessary with streak or bol imo. Snares are much weaker than they use to be.

Just to chime in here. You're right about the other classes appeal. Especially hybrid DK seems interesting.

And I think surge healing isn't gonna cut it anymore after the upcoming healing nerfs anyway. Malcath's band aside, you won't have very much dot pressure and crit chance on a hybrid sorc to begin with as well.

So if you're hell bent for getting both buffs from one skill + using Malacath's you could try using Power Surge + Vigor as it at least gives you some healing compared to none Crit Surge. IIrc MB still allows crit heals. PSurge heal would be very, very low too but you can use Tri Stat Pots then.

I still hope they just change Mala's to cut of crit damage and allow the crit proc to happen.

For the rest I agree with Martini. Some damage passives are worth more than none so I'd still go with light or medium armor.

And just on a general note, Pelinal's isn't as bad as you make it out to be. You could wear it with Master's Bow on back. It's weapon dmg translates into spell damage too, at least for non-ground abilities.

jaws343

If I were going hybrid I would probably pair Stuhn's, New Moon, and The Torc Mythic Item:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Torc+of+Tonal+Constancy

Rather than the Malacath Band.

The regen you can get from that mythic item will allow you to stack infused jewelry. With the right food, you can have decent regen for both stats, really good Pen, and high weapon/spell damage.

MartiniDaniels

jaws343 wrote: »

If I were going hybrid I would probably pair Stuhn's, New Moon, and The Torc Mythic Item:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Torc+of+Tonal+Constancy

Rather than the Malacath Band.

The regen you can get from that mythic item will allow you to stack infused jewelry. With the right food, you can have decent regen for both stats, really good Pen, and high weapon/spell damage.

I 100% sure that Torc will be nerfed. It is potentially 900 base regen in 1 piece... even if we take only stamina part, it is 450 regen in one piece and there is nothing easier then to have less then 50% magicka on typical stamina character. Spam fragmented shield for example, and if your stamina goes low (which is again not hard to get on ANY spec), your magicka regen will skyrocket. Torc is absolutely broken.

Sanguinor2

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I 100% sure that Torc will be nerfed. It is potentially 900 base regen in 1 piece... even if we take only stamina part, it is 450 regen in one piece and there is nothing easier then to have less then 50% magicka on typical stamina character. Spam fragmented shield for example, and if your stamina goes low (which is again not hard to get on ANY spec), your magicka regen will skyrocket. Torc is absolutely broken.

Im not too sure on it getting nerfed considering that greymoor will also come with a 5 piece set that gives 400something stam+mag recovery when above 50% Health (and 1k Health recovery when below 50%).

Vietfox

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I 100% sure that Torc will be nerfed. It is potentially 900 base regen in 1 piece... even if we take only stamina part, it is 450 regen in one piece and there is nothing easier then to have less then 50% magicka on typical stamina character. Spam fragmented shield for example, and if your stamina goes low (which is again not hard to get on ANY spec), your magicka regen will skyrocket. Torc is absolutely broken.

Im not too sure on it getting nerfed considering that greymoor will also come with a 5 piece set that gives 400something stam+mag recovery when above 50% Health (and 1k Health recovery when below 50%).

Both will get nerfed once they make enough money out of Greymoor.

Sanguinor2

Vietfox wrote: »

Both will get nerfed once they make enough money out of Greymoor.

Well yeah but not with Greymoor release. Also more likely that a future dlc will just bring a stronger set that does the same.

MartiniDaniels

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I 100% sure that Torc will be nerfed. It is potentially 900 base regen in 1 piece... even if we take only stamina part, it is 450 regen in one piece and there is nothing easier then to have less then 50% magicka on typical stamina character. Spam fragmented shield for example, and if your stamina goes low (which is again not hard to get on ANY spec), your magicka regen will skyrocket. Torc is absolutely broken.

Im not too sure on it getting nerfed considering that greymoor will also come with a 5 piece set that gives 400something stam+mag recovery when above 50% Health (and 1k Health recovery when below 50%).

Yes, and Amber plasm buff. When ZOS overbuffs something, you know what will happen to those sets in next update... they are trying to shake the meta, i.e. they nerfed healing and protection and rolled out ton of possibilities to get a lot of sustain, damage and penetration...

Alendrin

When people want to make a hybrid, I always ask why. What set of skills do you want to use such that you would need to be a hybrid?

I've asked many, but I have never been given an answer.

Stx

I personally feel the best way to build a hybrid is with clever alchemist, potion cooldown jewelry. Being able to have two potion buffs running at the same time is absolutely insane and very flexible. You can have a 75% uptime on major vitality if you wish, or a 100% uptime on both spell power and weapon power potions... or 100% uptime on armor potions and tri stat potions... and lingering health pots+ speed pots.

The combos are endless and sustain is not an issue then.

What set you choose to pair with clever alchemist is up to you but you dont even have to double bar it. You could literally run something like new moon+ balorg + malacath and then backbar alchemist and get 100% uptime of that buff on your front bar and awesome regen from potions especially if you went argonian.

Stx

Alendrin wrote: »

When people want to make a hybrid, I always ask why. What set of skills do you want to use such that you would need to be a hybrid?

I've asked many, but I have never been given an answer.

You have a good point. Most people want to make hybrids because its cool or fun, but basically just end up intentionally gimping their character. To make a worthy hybrid build you have to have a set of skills you want to combo together to provide a unique advantage.

I think hybrid DKs in pvp do this by stacking super high damage and then their magicka abilities like flame lash hit way harder than they normally ever would on a magicka build.

One hybrid build that I think is worthwhile would be a templar because adding jesus beam execute and honor the dead to a stamina kit might be really good. You could also run a hybrid sorcerer to get curse and mages fury on a stamina kit.

Vietfox

Alendrin wrote: »

When people want to make a hybrid, I always ask why. What set of skills do you want to use such that you would need to be a hybrid?

I've asked many, but I have never been given an answer.

You got the answer in this very thread:

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The nice part about hybrids is being able to cover the things that typically hold a focussed build back. For example, a Stam Sorc has a lack of a burst/delayed burst which you can now use via crystal frags/curse, you can also have double executes if you want via endless fury and 2h/dw. Most mag classes don't have an execute you can now get via 2h/dw. That's why I can't wait to see what people do with it.

HankTwo

I already have a hybrid very similar to what you propose, a dunmer socerer wearing engine guardian, shacklebreaker and new moon acolyte. 5 heavy 1 light 1 medium, all impen, all triune. Dual wield front, resto back (though 2h front would be better for 1v1). Lover mundus, bewitched sugar skulls and tri stat pots. It definitely works and is a lot of fun to play

Overall I'd say currently such a build is still a bit weaker than a dedicated stam/mag build. Imo, the biggest weakness is definitely the low crit chance (10% weapon, 15% spell lol). Thats why malacaths band for hybrids is probably the thing I'm looking forward to the most. It will be a huge boost to my offense so I will use it with 1 piece of domihaus instead of engine guardian (and I'll obviously switch crit surge to power surge). Additionally, the new tri stat cost redcution glyph looks very promising, I will definitely use 1 infused to get a bit of the sustain that I'll lose by dropping engine guardian back.

Burst combo is curse --> fury --> dawnbreaker --> whirling blades/bound armaments if all 4 daggers are ready. The double execute is extremely dangerous. If the target drops below 40% health with the dawnbreaker + curse the following whirling blades on a stunned target leads to a fury proc and often insta death.

MartiniDaniels

Alendrin wrote: »

When people want to make a hybrid, I always ask why. What set of skills do you want to use such that you would need to be a hybrid?

I've asked many, but I have never been given an answer.

StamDK doesn't have burst ability, magDK doesn't have an execute ability. Hybrid DK have both.

I don't have much experience with building sorcs, but I saw some interesting hybrid sorcs as well.

Of course this is exclusively for no-CP.

YandereGirlfriend

This thread is making me thirsty for creating a hybrid, great work!

Solariken

Stx wrote: »

I personally feel the best way to build a hybrid is with clever alchemist, potion cooldown jewelry. Being able to have two potion buffs running at the same time is absolutely insane and very flexible. You can have a 75% uptime on major vitality if you wish, or a 100% uptime on both spell power and weapon power potions... or 100% uptime on armor potions and tri stat potions... and lingering health pots+ speed pots.

The combos are endless and sustain is not an issue then.

What set you choose to pair with clever alchemist is up to you but you dont even have to double bar it. You could literally run something like new moon+ balorg + malacath and then backbar alchemist and get 100% uptime of that buff on your front bar and awesome regen from potions especially if you went argonian.

I have an Argonian nightblade that I was considering for this. Siphoning/Leeching Strikes + Crushing Weap + Swallow + Dark Cloak + Radiating is a metric fackton of healing

daemonor

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This thread is making me thirsty for creating a hybrid, great work!

I am sweating for an executioneer mag dk or flame whip stam dk.

Kadoin

Anything a hybrid can use, ZOS is making sure buffs pure stam and mag builds far more ...

zvavi

Kadoin wrote: »

Anything a hybrid can use, ZOS is making sure buffs pure stam and mag builds far more ...

Actually, band of Malacath is much better on hybrid build in no cp environment, especially since it is stronger the less crit you have through passives...if you actually read the thread you will see the benefits of hybrid.

Stx

Kadoin wrote: »

Anything a hybrid can use, ZOS is making sure buffs pure stam and mag builds far more ...

The very nature of being a hybrid means you will NEVER perform as well as a pure. The whole point of being a hybrid is being a swiss army knife, or to expand your toolkit to be more versatile than a pure.

soniku4ikblis

I want a Stamplar that will be able to tank heavily and dps heavily while having great sustain.

I love this theory-crafting. Thanks.