Boring Forum.. Lets talk OP, and Null Abilities

AmoralOne

In your opinion, what abilities are over performing, and also under performing.

Also what are some abilities that do not get enough credit, and abilities that get to much credit!

Please keep it civil

Taunky

Sorc needs another buff.

MartiniDaniels

Flying blade and Empowering chains. I'm still waiting with cautious curiosity if ZOS plans to change them to be usable and comparable in efficiency to Toppling charge and Streak.

Tommy_The_Gun

I won't say what abilities are over-performing as I don't want to trigger people and call for nerfs, so instead I will say what abilities imho should 110% get a buff, or at least some love:

- Mark Target
- Consuming Darkness
- Path of Darkness
- Aspect of Terror
- Fire Rune
- Imbue Weapon

Q_Q

What are abilities?

No abilities are being used atm due to the performance of the game.

Vietfox

DTAmoral wrote: »

In your opinion, what abilities are over performing, and also under performing.

Not gonna list all of them but the first 2 that come to my mind from what i've read on the forums are...

what are some abilities that do not get enough credit
Arctic blast

and abilities that get to much credit!
Cloak

FirmamentOfStars

Overperforming:

- Blighted blastbones
- Spirit guardian

- Ball of lightning and streak
- Twilight matriarch active ability

- Betty netch

- Onslaught


Underperforming:

Way too many in almost all skill trees there is one.

AmoralOne

Personally I think Encase is really underrated. This CC whether it be from the Lag, and Latency is SO strong. Maybe I am not seeing it used since sorc bars are really competitive, and theres so many good skills to run.

I run a support sorc, and Encase into a streak is so much stam wasted to get free.

likecats

Overperforming:

AOE roots
Pets as LOS (make them like Summon shade)

Dragonredux

Underperforming

I feel Fire Rune and Trapping Webs needs some tweaking to be more viable. Never really hear anyone talk about or use them.

L_Nici

How does Ball of Lightning overperform? It doesn't stun, it deals no damage, only saves you from projectiles and grants you 3 seconds of immunity to snare and most of the time the projectile protection doesn't even work due to lag. There is a reason most people rather take Streak over Ball of Lightning.

Overall I would say Stamsorc and Nightblades are the most underpeforming classes. Stamsorc because nothing it actively does is really from the Sorctree besides Hurricane and NB because their skills are so much weaker in comparison.

AmoralOne

Dragonredux wrote: »

Underperforming

I feel Fire Rune and Trapping Webs needs some tweaking to be more viable. Never really hear anyone talk about or use them.

Trapping Webs is interesting I have played around with it a bit on my support, I never got it morphed as I fell out of love with it. I looked it up though. It has a synergy Fear. That could be interesting to go back and look at!

Sanguinor2

L_Nici wrote: »

How does Ball of Lightning overperform? It doesn't stun, it deals no damage, only saves you from projectiles and grants you 3 seconds of immunity to snare and most of the time the projectile protection doesn't even work due to lag. There is a reason most people rather take Streak over Ball of Lightning.

Wings were hammered for less. Shorter anti snare Duration, no Reposition, limited projectile Count. I´d trade wings for BoL in a heartbeat.

L_Nici

The wings reflected projectiles and still deal counter damage, BoL just absorbs them, no counter damage.

Sanguinor2

L_Nici wrote: »

The wings reflected projectiles and still deal counter damage, BoL just absorbs them, no counter damage.

But it absorbs infinite projectiles instead of reflecting 4 and additionally is a repositioning tool. Compared to current wings BoL is overperforming (or more likely current wings are underperforming).

Qbiken

Overperforming:

* Artic Blast and Polar Wind (heals shouldn´t scale of max HP)

Come at me warden mains!

FirmamentOfStars

Ball of lightning is overperforming, since it grants loooots of stuff at the same time. As others already said it is a reposition tool, can work as gapcloser or get away tool. Additionally it grants snare immunity, a very impactful function in PvP. The last thing is the absorb projectilies mechanic, which was gutted on other classes. Same as streak it provides just too many things for its cost. Together with skills like dark deal an escape, therefore reset of a fight is almost granted. I have seen many unskilled magsorcs evading death thanks to this skill, which should be taken as indication as overperforming.

Btw many stamsorcs use ball of lightning instead of streak.

AmoralOne

SavageChain wrote: »

Overperforming:

- Betty netch

Whats wrong with Bettey Netch in your opinion? Would you want to add a cost to this ability?
If I had to guess its that you can spam it for free.

FirmamentOfStars

DTAmoral wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Overperforming:

- Betty netch

Whats wrong with Bettey Netch in your opinion? Would you want to add a cost to this ability?
If I had to guess its that you can spam it for free.

Nah the spammy thing to cleanse off stuff was okey, since you were wasting a global cooldown per negative effect. But now it just cleanses some negative effect every 5 seconds without any doing, which together with major sorcery/brutality and resources is a bit too much. Most wardens probably do not even realize how good this is.

deleted221106-002999

dk chain needs a range buff - 400m ought be to be sufficient. Should be unavoidable, too. Also needs a morph with a concertina chain with a boxing glove at the end; make that one spammable. Yeah.

Gaggin

atro ult needs a 2sec delay like destro ult cus ill be totally out of it on my screen and still get hit with major vuln.

MartiniDaniels

Souterain wrote: »

dk chain needs a range buff - 400m ought be to be sufficient. Should be unavoidable, too. Also needs a morph with a concertina chain with a boxing glove at the end; make that one spammable. Yeah.

I think it's funny when one ability has gap closer+stun+off-balance+chance to proc burning light and another gives 2 1 (one) use of empower + major expedition. So stun and off-balance - 2 most important things in the game right now vs most useless of buffs (given it is provided for 1 light attack) and most easily accessible buff.
But even more funny is that ZOS managed to nerf empowering chains in U26. I laughed my backside out when I read patch notes. The only class ability change in new chapter and it is... NERF TO EMPOWERING CHAINS!

MartiniDaniels

Just to clarify - I don't ask for nerf of toppling charge - ability is fine. Just make something with other gap closers, because they are laughably bad.

AmoralOne

Souterain wrote: »

dk chain needs a range buff - 400m ought be to be sufficient. Should be unavoidable, too. Also needs a morph with a concertina chain with a boxing glove at the end; make that one spammable. Yeah.

I would be okay with this LOL

The two 'real' counters to all the bombers now a days is Negate, or a DK sees the bomber and chains them in to torment them. Without either of those around bombers have a field day

Atherakhia

Lets see...

The single most OP thing impacting PvP right now has got to be the lag. This game is the single worse PvP experience I've had in close to 10 years at this point. MMOs don't even launch in the state Cyrodiil is in currently. Not even from Indy developer.

So it's kind of hard to discuss overall class balance when we can't even play the game...

But for shiggles, I'll give you my list.

Pets:
Pets right now are too powerful. Not only the abilities they provide ranging from damage to healing, but just the LOS issues they cause and the 'zoo' mentality a lot of people have. Pets need to either have dramatically less health in PvP so they can realistically be killed, or they just need to become untargetable and treated like the DOTs and HOTs they are in this game because of how passive they are.

Healing:
I know they are nerfing healing in the next patch. I don't play Stamina classes (I suck with them) so I'm curious if the healing nerf will be too much for them. But time will tell. But really, I doubt a 10% drop in healing is going to turn the healing meta around in this game. Time will tell but I'd wager the healing changes will have no real impact at all.

Magicka Sorcerers:
This kit simply has too much going for it. Some tough choices need to be made to really hit Mag Sorcs hard and boost Stam Sorcs. Streak has too much on it for a single ability and the penalty for successive casts isn't severe enough. Their burst combo is simply too easy to perform outright and then when you add in the exceedingly long range, the availability for stun, etc. it's absurd. Pre-executes only further throw their burst damage out of whack.

Nightblades:
I've only been playing for 6 months so I have no idea how powerful this class was but it's certainly not anymore. The class doesn't bring anything valuable to the group but also doesn't have any built in advantages to offset this lack of utility. There is so much wrong with this class that it's impossible to identify any low-hanging fruit that could help them out.

MagDK:
As I said above, I haven't been playing this game that long. I was not here for the DOT era and have no idea how overpowered things were. All I know is the MagDK is the defacto DOT class and it's in a bitter duel to the death with the Nightblade class for the title of worst PvP class in ESO. I don't know if damage is what needs to be adjusted here as MagDKs are doing well in PvE (more then well currently but they are being propped up by a bugged weapon that is soon being fixed and nerfed). Time will tell to see how MagDKs do on the PvE side so increasing their damage is a bad idea. And honestly, their damage isn't something I think they need (though an execute on whip would be nice). But the lack the delivery system (they're melee range) and survivability tools to make their DOTs work effectively in PvP.

That's the big ones off the top of my head. These are just my opinion as well. Some people around here think Nightblades are amazing and MagDKs are OP. I don't. We can disagree.

AmoralOne

Atherakhia wrote: »

But for shiggles, I'll give you my list.

Pets:
Healing:
Magicka Sorcerers:
Nightblades:
MagDK:

I dont want this thread turning into class vs class, was referring to only skills, but thank you for the input! I think a few will agree with some points, and others will disagree with others points, but we will need a different thread for that as I suspect it would be closed very fast..

I do agree with the Streak comment. Streak is very strong, and it stacks with immobilize stuns. so I can streak you, and then immobilize you. Making you break free twice.

The Pets are also a great line of sight tool. Very strong

Mortiis13

DTAmoral wrote: »

Personally I think Encase is really underrated. This CC whether it be from the Lag, and Latency is SO strong. Maybe I am not seeing it used since sorc bars are really competitive, and theres so many good skills to run.

I run a support sorc, and Encase into a streak is so much stam wasted to get free.

Encase forces most players to dodgeroll.
Casting curse, fury, metor, shattering prison ( 90% of players dodgeroll) then frag/spamable.
Hitting mostly all at the same time after the dodgeroll incl stun from meteor.

Works also with streak instead of meteor for less tanky players.

Curse, fury, prison, frag, streak.

Anyron

DTAmoral wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

But for shiggles, I'll give you my list.

Pets:
Healing:
Magicka Sorcerers:
Nightblades:
MagDK:

I dont want this thread turning into class vs class, was referring to only skills, but thank you for the input! I think a few will agree with some points, and others will disagree with others points, but we will need a different thread for that as I suspect it would be closed very fast..

I do agree with the Streak comment. Streak is very strong, and it stacks with immobilize stuns. so I can streak you, and then immobilize you. Making you break free twice.

The Pets are also a great line of sight tool. Very strong

While you can be affected by both hard and soft CC in same time only hard CC requires break free. Soft CC is removed by purge or roll dodge

So no, 2X break free in row isnt needed.

For sorcs what is overperforming is streak for sure.

What is UP for sorcerers is
bound armor
Fury(pve)
Lightning Splash
All 3 ultimates

Anyron

SavageChain wrote: »

Overperforming:

- Blighted blastbones
- Spirit guardian

- Ball of lightning and streak
- Twilight matriarch active ability

- Betty netch

- Onslaught


Underperforming:

Way too many in almost all skill trees there is one.

How is twilight matriarch overperforming? Requires double slotting, requires special build focusing to max magicka at cost of weaker spells (than spell dmg) summoning cost something and also there is cost for healing which was ballanced with templar BoL

FirmamentOfStars

Anyron wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Overperforming:

- Blighted blastbones
- Spirit guardian

- Ball of lightning and streak
- Twilight matriarch active ability

- Betty netch

- Onslaught


Underperforming:

Way too many in almost all skill trees there is one.

How is twilight matriarch overperforming? Requires double slotting, requires special build focusing to max magicka at cost of weaker spells (than spell dmg) summoning cost something and also there is cost for healing which was ballanced with templar BoL

Double slotting is required for such a good skill, since the skill has so many functions. If we compare it to other skills, its a passive dot (comparable to the skelett arcanist, which is one skill and provides pretty much the same, a damage pulse every two seconds) and an active heal ability. So its two skills in one slot, so double barring it makes sense to make up for what it provides.
Max magicka is the go to on every magsorc build in PvP anyway, since also damage shields scale with max magicka. For magsorcs max magicka means damage, healing and mitigation. It is simply the go to stat and it is so easy, that it is essential and pretty much unfair compared to other classes speccing in multiple stats to be effective. So basically no, you dont have to build specifically, since max magicka is just the stat you want as magsorc, not only to make the matriarch strong.

Yes you need to cast the twilight matriarch at the start, but afterwards it provides a free dot, which is very different to every dot in the game, because they need frequent recasting due to their duration. Also in PvE the matriarch doesnt die anymore. In PvP the matriarch is recasted very quickly, normally is not focussed and is also not that easy to kill, therefore is also used as an object to LOS behind (explained later).

The healing of the twilight matriarch is balanced with breath of life? Dont make me laugh, the twilights heal tooltip is by far the biggest one in the game on a proper PvP build. Additionally it not only heals you and the matriarch, but also heals an ally for its full tooltip, meanwhile breath of lifes secondary heal is small as heck.

Last point the LOSing: Many magsorcs hide behind or inside their pets, making them more difficult to target. Yes tab-targetting works to some degree like in duels, but open world or in BGs you actually have several enemies and switching targets is crucial. Also some classes are more built around aoe like templars, where their spammable is not on a target, therefore the sorc gets damaged less and mitigates thanks to the matriarch tons of damage.

That is why matriarch even with the small drawback of double barring is overperforming.

AmoralOne

Anyron wrote: »

DTAmoral wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

All 3 ultimates

You think Suppression Field is under powered?

Granted I dont think its OP, but I think its in a nice sweet spot. You are not using this ability solo, but in a ball group with coordination, Negate is really strong tool to success.