Spirit Mender (Necromancer skill) is not activating the Hiti's Hearth 5 piece set bonus

GrumpyDuckling

The Hiti's Hearth set is not being activated from the heal by the Necromancer skill Spirit Mender.

Hiti's Hearth
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally with an ability, gain a Warming Aura for 10 seconds. While in the Warming Aura, you and group members restore 1020 Health every 1 second and reduce the cost of Sprint, Block, and Roll Dodge by 5%. This effect can occur once every 12 seconds.



Spirit Mender
Conjure a ghostly spirit to do your bidding and stay by your side for 16 seconds. The spirit heals you or the lowest Health ally around you every 2 seconds, restoring [1717 / 1735 / 1753 / 1772] Health. Creates a corpse on death.

Server: NA
Platform: Xbox

HankTwo

Afaik, thats the case for any set with a proc condition like that. Its because pet heals/damage doesn't count as player heals/damage and the pets don't inherit your special item set effects. Its pretty annoying imo, but apparently ZOS doesn't think this is a bug , because people (me included) reportet similar cases (like with trollking for example) multiple times in the past and the devs never reacted.

GrumpyDuckling

That's weird. This is definitely a bug. Spirit Mender is an ability, and Hiti's Hearth says it activates when healing "yourself or an ally with an ability."

HankTwo

When it comes to the code pets count as their own entities. That means your spirit mender skill doesn't heal anything by itself, instead it summons a pet and then that pet heals you and your allies. Since the pet doesn't inherit your sets it can't proc the hiti's heart effect. I know its annoying, but this being a bug or not entirely depends on ZOS position. Maybe they will change it in the future, maybe not, but this is how it currently works. And as I said, they didn't react to reports about this issue in the past (would be nice if they could just make a short official statement to make things clear but they never do...)

catnamedwill

The spirit does the healing, you don't. You just summon it.

GrumpyDuckling

HankTwo wrote: »

When it comes to the code pets count as their own entities. That means your spirit mender skill doesn't heal anything by itself, instead it summons a pet and then that pet heals you and your allies. Since the pet doesn't inherit your sets it can't proc the hiti's heart effect. I know its annoying, but this being a bug or not entirely depends on ZOS position. Maybe they will change it in the future, maybe not, but this is how it currently works. And as I said, they didn't react to reports about this issue in the past (would be nice if they could just make a short official statement to make things clear but they never do...)

I get what you are saying. Based on the wording of the set and the skill, it is defined as a bug because the interaction is not working as it states that it should. If they don't want it to be a bug, then they need to change the words on the set and/or skill.

GrumpyDuckling

catnamedwill wrote: »

The spirit does the healing, you don't. You just summon it.

Yeah, that's why it's not activating Hiti's Hearth. However, I am using an ability that heals myself or an ally. That's the problem with the wording.

They currently have it so the ability simply summons the spirit, and then the spirit independently heals. That doesn't make sense. The point in summoning is to have it do something (such as healing), therefore the heal should be attributed to the caster because that is the reason the caster summoned it.

HankTwo

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

When it comes to the code pets count as their own entities. That means your spirit mender skill doesn't heal anything by itself, instead it summons a pet and then that pet heals you and your allies. Since the pet doesn't inherit your sets it can't proc the hiti's heart effect. I know its annoying, but this being a bug or not entirely depends on ZOS position. Maybe they will change it in the future, maybe not, but this is how it currently works. And as I said, they didn't react to reports about this issue in the past (would be nice if they could just make a short official statement to make things clear but they never do...)

I get what you are saying. Based on the wording of the set and the skill, it is defined as a bug because the interaction is not working as it states that it should. If they don't want it to be a bug, then they need to change the words on the set and/or skill.

To be fair the wording of sets like hiti's hearth isn't 'when you use an ability that heals' but instead, as you wrote yourself, its 'when you heal', implying that you need to directly be the source of that healing, while spirit mender says 'you conjure a spirit, the spirit heals'. So nowhere does the wording explicitly state that there should be an interaction.

Edit: For example look at these three sentences, because the logic follows the exact same way as with hiti's hearth and spirit mender.
a) when someone goes to war they kill
b) mothers give birth to sons
c) sons go to war

Now, do mothers kill? Yes, no, maybe, depends?

GrumpyDuckling

HankTwo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

When it comes to the code pets count as their own entities. That means your spirit mender skill doesn't heal anything by itself, instead it summons a pet and then that pet heals you and your allies. Since the pet doesn't inherit your sets it can't proc the hiti's heart effect. I know its annoying, but this being a bug or not entirely depends on ZOS position. Maybe they will change it in the future, maybe not, but this is how it currently works. And as I said, they didn't react to reports about this issue in the past (would be nice if they could just make a short official statement to make things clear but they never do...)

I get what you are saying. Based on the wording of the set and the skill, it is defined as a bug because the interaction is not working as it states that it should. If they don't want it to be a bug, then they need to change the words on the set and/or skill.

To be fair the wording of sets like hiti's hearth isn't 'if you use an ability that heals' but instead, as you wrote yourself, its 'if you heal', implying that you need to directly be the source of that healing, while spirit mender says 'you conjure a spirit, the spirit heals'. So nowhere does the wording explicitly state that there should be an interaction.

That's why I write about intent in post #7. You use your summon ability for a purpose (to heal). You aren't just summoning the ability just to have a summoned spirit. You are using that ability so that you can heal yourself or an ally.

That is also supported by the wording of the "do your bidding" part. If I am summoning a spirit to do my bidding, and my bidding is that the spirit heals, then yes, I am responsible for the heal in the same way that I command a restoration staff to do my bidding when I use a skill from the staff that heals.

HankTwo

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

When it comes to the code pets count as their own entities. That means your spirit mender skill doesn't heal anything by itself, instead it summons a pet and then that pet heals you and your allies. Since the pet doesn't inherit your sets it can't proc the hiti's heart effect. I know its annoying, but this being a bug or not entirely depends on ZOS position. Maybe they will change it in the future, maybe not, but this is how it currently works. And as I said, they didn't react to reports about this issue in the past (would be nice if they could just make a short official statement to make things clear but they never do...)

I get what you are saying. Based on the wording of the set and the skill, it is defined as a bug because the interaction is not working as it states that it should. If they don't want it to be a bug, then they need to change the words on the set and/or skill.

To be fair the wording of sets like hiti's hearth isn't 'if you use an ability that heals' but instead, as you wrote yourself, its 'if you heal', implying that you need to directly be the source of that healing, while spirit mender says 'you conjure a spirit, the spirit heals'. So nowhere does the wording explicitly state that there should be an interaction.

That's why I write about intent in post #7. You use your summon ability for a purpose (to heal). You aren't just summoning the ability just to have a summoned spirit. You are using that ability so that you can heal yourself or an ally.

That is also supported by the wording of the "do your bidding" part. If I am summoning a spirit to do my bidding, and my bidding is that the spirit heals, then yes, I am responsible for the heal in the same way that I command a restoration staff to do my bidding when I use a skill from the staff that heals.

It really depends on if you look at the spirit mender as its own, separated entity or not. I don't agree that the wording must necessarily be corrected, but I do agree that its a bit inconsistent gameplay wise, because a skill like DK's cauterize has a very similar way of operating, yet it counts as your own healing in contrast to spirit mender.

GrumpyDuckling

HankTwo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

When it comes to the code pets count as their own entities. That means your spirit mender skill doesn't heal anything by itself, instead it summons a pet and then that pet heals you and your allies. Since the pet doesn't inherit your sets it can't proc the hiti's heart effect. I know its annoying, but this being a bug or not entirely depends on ZOS position. Maybe they will change it in the future, maybe not, but this is how it currently works. And as I said, they didn't react to reports about this issue in the past (would be nice if they could just make a short official statement to make things clear but they never do...)

I get what you are saying. Based on the wording of the set and the skill, it is defined as a bug because the interaction is not working as it states that it should. If they don't want it to be a bug, then they need to change the words on the set and/or skill.

Edit: For example look at these three sentences, because the logic follows the exact same way as with hiti's hearth and spirit mender.
a) when someone goes to war they kill
b) mothers give birth to sons
c) sons go to war

Now, do mothers kill? Yes, no, maybe, depends?

This example doesn't equate. Look at the wording of the skill and let us equate it to a better in-game example. The spirit "does your bidding," which is to heal. The intent to heal is made by the caster, with the spirit being the medium through which the healing occurs. A restoration staff operates the same way. The staff is performing the heals at the behest of the caster. Therefore, if a restoration staff can proc Hiti's Hearth, then the Spirit Mender (based on the wording of the skill) should also proc Hiti's Hearth.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

I haven't tried Hiti on any pet-enabled class. Does it proc from the sorc Matriach heals, which are triggered directly by the player but formally performed by the pet? If so, not reacting to the Necro pet heal seems a bit inconsistent, even though there is a formal distinction between summoning a temporary HoT pet and making a permanently summoned pet heal on command.

Ishtarknows

I am a pve healer so don't use Hiti but the Sorc's matriarch heals proc Bogdan and Earthgore so I'd find it strange if they didn't proc Hiti. It might be that the ghost is considered a heal over time and knowing that some sets only proc from the first heal of hots like illustrious but not the subsequent hot ticks this might be why ghost won't proc it.

GrumpyDuckling

Ishtarknows wrote: »

I am a pve healer so don't use Hiti but the Sorc's matriarch heals proc Bogdan and Earthgore so I'd find it strange if they didn't proc Hiti. It might be that the ghost is considered a heal over time and knowing that some sets only proc from the first heal of hots like illustrious but not the subsequent hot ticks this might be why ghost won't proc it.

It procs from HOT (tested on Templar Ritual).