Is dual(or multi)-talent system a disliked idea by the community or the developers?

Arnoldthehawk

Somewhat familiar to the case of Alliance Change Tokens back before it was confirmed, I found some request for dual-talent system here and there, but those post or forum topics never get the attention they seek for.

Now I’m interested if this is a widely hated idea or just generally not that important feature?

By dual-talent system I mean somehow like WoW made it. You can change your skill tree out of combat and it took atleast 15 seconds. This obviously made them only a QoL, not a bypass for changing talents inbetween situations like used underwear.

Personally I would love the idea. I’m the one-character kind of player, and have a Dragonknight and I play the *** out of the game with it, meaning from doing achievements through collecting all the motifs to the absolute completionism. I love the way that my Two-Handed/Bow Stamina combat build works with it but I also had a ton of fun with my previously used Magicka Fire Staff/Fire Staff build. I used these build for mostly Solo content, but made decent dps in Veteran Dungeons and Trials too and also completed vMA with them. Now I wondered how fun would it be if I could occasionly change my build by a click. I don’t want to do it combat, nor inbetween fight or something, but more like the way in WoW works. So sometimes when I want to play with my Magicka build I would press a button, out of combat (or maybe restricted to be in a city or talk to a special NPC or such) and my spent skills (especially since different builds uses different Morphs of the same ability), champion points, and attribute points would change to the other preset, then maybe I change equipment I took with me, and boom, I’m ready to rock my other playstyle. I would pay the full current cost of retalent (it costs around 20.000 gold for me currently with the skill, champion and attribute points resets), just to skip the copy-from-my-notes way.

I know about the addon that can help to replicate some form of this, but I'm talking about a fully fleshed QoL feature by ZoS. Also, I wouldn't mind pay Crowns for this feature (maybe similar how Outfit Slot buy works).

Thoughts?

Uryel

Arnoldthehawk wrote: »

but I'm talking about a fully fleshed QoL feature by ZoS

And this is why it will never happen. Just like with every Elder Scrolls game, we only have half an interface, 1/5 of the features any self respecting game should have, and the devs apparently have no interest (or are under orders from the Suits) into working on features that players can add through addons. Why pay people to work on something when others will do it for free ?

the1andonlyskwex

As a console player, I wish ZOS would add automated gear and skill swapping to the UI. That said, I'm also not really in favor of them adding quick CP, morph, or attribute respecification. I think having some build choices be longer-term than others is good RPG game design.

Arnoldthehawk

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As a console player, I wish ZOS would add automated gear and skill swapping to the UI. That said, I'm also not really in favor of them adding quick CP, morph, or attribute respecification. I think having some build choices be longer-term than others is good RPG game design.

My problem is that in my opinion RPG game designs should be optional. Everyone has their own preferred limit when it comes to RPG. For example I love how story oriented and story driven the game is and I’m honestly interested in any written in-game lore data I encounter, but I won’t ever be able act in a roleplay session in a city as some of the folks do that regularly. So that is my line. And while I understand that for you it is good that your choices are long term, for me it has no positives. It’s not like this system would be able to contain a vampire AND a werewolf build too, because that would totally break the immersion, and of course I’m not arguing with that.

In my opinion multi-talent system (as a QoL feature by ZoS) would give the players more ground to replayability.

All this system would give us is the ability to throw our handly written notes to the trash and spare us roughly 15 minutes.

For me to retalent now means this:
I go to a major city. I pay for the shrines (around 17.000 gold for attributes, skill points and morph). I redistribute my points accordingly. I open the Champion Points menu, and redistribute my champion points accordingly, then travel to a Mundus Stone, and bind myself to it and when all of this is done, which basically 10-15 minutes, I just switch out my equipment from my inventory.
This isn’t long nor costs too much, the problem is the clunkiness. I have to select/deselect each skill and morphes that I want to change and overall just click-click-click all over the system to get from talent one to talent two.

Now imagine a system where you could have saved “profiles” (or whatever fancy name ZoS can think of) just like how we have Outfit Slots. You select one, your character casts an ability or a spell of some kind (only out of combat of course or even bound to a specific place like a temple) and a few seconds you are done. It still costs you the gold you would spend otherwise, you just save the clunky clickity fest that you currently can’t.

the1andonlyskwex

Sorry, to be clear, when I say "RPG game design", I don't mean "roleplay". What I mean is that I think it's important that the game force players to make compromises in their builds. If you allow players to change everything about their character at will (or even just while out-of-combat), you introduce a situation where players will be expected to completely change their build from fight-to-fight within an activity (e.g. a dungeon or trial). By limiting when and where people can change their CPs, morphs, and attributes, the game makes those choices more meaningful and also forces people to make compromises to at least account for a full activity, instead of min-maxing on an encounter-by-encounter basis.

Arnoldthehawk

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Sorry, to be clear, when I say "RPG game design", I don't mean "roleplay". What I mean is that I think it's important that the game force players to make compromises in their builds. If you allow players to change everything about their character at will (or even just while out-of-combat), you introduce a situation where players will be expected to completely change their build from fight-to-fight within an activity (e.g. a dungeon or trial). By limiting when and where people can change their CPs, morphs, and attributes, the game makes those choices more meaningful and also forces people to make compromises to at least account for a full activity, instead of min-maxing on an encounter-by-encounter basis.

But the compromises you speak of doesn’t exist. You don’t need to make sacrafices since all it takes to change a build is like 10-15 minutes, for someone who isn’t use to it. Imagine the ones that are, possibly even less than 5 minutes (my guild mates for example do this regularly). Min-maxing players are exists, addons that HELPS to replicate this already in use but even if they weren’t people still can change their builds within minutes. If ZoS would worry about players that want to change builds per boss (which they actually can and do already, especially in “hardcore” communities) they can make it a locational thing like talent reset currently works - probably with the same efficiency to counter fight-to-fight talent changes like it is right now. As I said, it would only erase the clickity fest, it wouldn’t create exploits regarding meaningful character choices that isn’t already exist in the game.

This would be purely a QoL feature, not a bypass or a new exploit.

Everest_Lionheart

I feel that reskilling on the fly now works fine. There is some need for compromise and that makes all of your decisions with regards to morphs, mundus, potions and equipment have real consequences. It’s easy enough to swap one skill for another or a set of armour and weapons on the fly. I’ve been one to carry weapons with aboard stamina and absorb health enchants when I need survivability or to slot a skill that returns health and give up some damage especially when I solo 4 man dungeons. I have to switch my kit and load out by boss. Those switches have consequences. To be able to instantly switch on the fly and do a full respec on the fly including morphs, while it sounds great on paper kind of defeats the purpose of making those hard decisions.

The one thing this game does need though is the ability to change your equipment load out on the fly with a press of a button. Do it through the inventory screen, make it available only out of combat, switching sets shouldn’t be that complicated. Skill bar presets would be fine too so we don’t have to go through one at a time making the adjustments we need.

zvavi

Character templates in character screen (where we can swap between outfits too) could be really nice. It is not like we never asked for it...

xPoisin

This is why I have two magplars, two stamplars, two DKs, etc...
Problem is that it is annoying to log-in log-out every time and I would love to have the possibility to share overall content progress between my chars in same aliance — cause I hate to do the quests four time in a row to have it done on all mu chars ((

colossalvoids

As we bombarded zos with such ideas before and even biggest content creators asked them live about it i believe it's a close possibility we'll get some "wardrobe" option to change gear/cp/skills but surely not on the go and probably full experience would be crown store thing like extra slots, change outside of house/city like features.

Personally would love that, any good timesaver is welcomed.

MindOfTheSwarm

Basically, what you are asking for is load out swapping. I personally am apathetic to the idea. Would be nice for sure, but not too fussed if it doesn't come.

Arnoldthehawk

Oh you all naysayers, this post aged like a fine wine!