Draugrkin's Grip

Zekka

Make it proc off magic, elemental and alchemical poisons only thanks.
Tired of seeing one Draugrkin stamsorc per BG, a magicka set shouldn't perform so much better on stamina classes.

WrathOfInnos

That just seems like a really bad idea. There’s no way Draugrkin is actually a competitive option on a stam build.

Thedragonlolitucker

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

That just seems like a really bad idea. There’s no way Draugrkin is actually a competitive option on a stam build.

its super strong

WrathOfInnos

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

That just seems like a really bad idea. There’s no way Draugrkin is actually a competitive option on a stam build.

its super strong

Is it bugged or something? Maybe the proc is ignoring battle spirit? Every time I’ve tested it it’s showing lower damage than other options on a mag build, where the 2-4pc bonuses are actually somewhat useful.

YandereGirlfriend

Then it's a strong build, deal with it.

No need to rev up the Nerf Bus and invite the devs to go "Full Asylum Destro" on a useful, niche set.

I used to think that it was just a meme but it really is true. The second that someone dies in PvP this exact thread is guaranteed to follow. Like clockwork, every, single, time: with the unerring precision of Sotha Sil.

WrathOfInnos

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

That just seems like a really bad idea. There’s no way Draugrkin is actually a competitive option on a stam build.

its super strong

Is it bugged or something? Maybe the proc is ignoring battle spirit? Every time I’ve tested it it’s showing lower damage than other options on a mag build, where the 2-4pc bonuses are actually somewhat useful.

Actually this could be exactly what’s going on. I found that the extra 617 damage does not get multiplied by any % damage done bonuses (like Minor Berserk, CP’s, Slayer, Sword or Staff passives, and various class passives). Maybe it is unaffected by the 50% damage done multiplier for PVP? Do you have any data showing how much damage the set is adding?

daemonor

I have plenty of data getting my [snip] whooped by someone who seemigly runs up and spams only rapid strikes. Thats some meme azureblight draugkins griph dual wield stamsorc build. Not a whole lot you can actually do about that in a 1v1.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=217387 or something like this.

[Edited for censor bypass]

MashmalloMan

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

WrathOfInnos

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

Necro siphon can tick every 250ms on a single target if they are stacked on it right. Orbs tick fast. Crushing Shock as mentioned. And then anything that ticks every 1s is good, too. I use it for my PvE magcro with Sorrow.

MashmalloMan

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

Necro siphon can tick every 250ms on a single target if they are stacked on it right. Orbs tick fast. Crushing Shock as mentioned. And then anything that ticks every 1s is good, too. I use it for my PvE magcro with Sorrow.

I thought siphon was .5s not .25s. the stream and the aoe field share the same damage, you can't double dip... Can you?

Also didn't think about orbs, nice call. It's easy to see why its a very strong PvE Magicka set because those are mostly PvE skills, in PvP it's a little more swayed towards stamina being able to proc higher instances of damage, but that's no reason for the set to not work for them like op suggests.

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

For templars, forgot to add they have burning light procs which can increase that 4 to 6 hits on average per second. 7 with light attack weaving, 8 with an enchantment. 9 with barrage. 10-11 if you've applied a dot before hand. 12 if purifying light hits.

Imagine the burst this set is capable of providing. The 66% uptime is really not a huge deal. 12 hits in 1 GCD outputs 7200 extra damage.

Stack your dots and spam sweeps.

If anything, the set is overturned, it really doesn't have anything to do with Stamina builds and more to do with the set.

VoidCommander

*cracks fingers* welp. Looks like people are finally catching onto the fact that draugrkin is more powerful than mother’s sorrow if you build for it. Been using this set on my magplar since it came out, and my damage has jumped from 28k on a 6 mil to 45k. This set is truly amazing.

The trick that most don’t undersrand is that you don’t need max uptime with it. Lay out your aoe fast ticking dots on your backbar, then swap to your draugrkin lightning sraff front bar and spam puncturing sweeps/crushing shock until draugrkin is over, then reapply aoe dots during the 3 second cooldown.

Its so easy it is basically a free +50% dps for whatever you normally do if you aren’t some god-tier dps

GeorgeBlack

Meanwhile DK is the attrition class

Maulkin

Niche but performs very well on DW StamSorc with Flurry, Axe bleed, poisons and vMA 2H backbar in no-CP.

WTB stamina Draugrkin mirror set. I refuse to use a magicka set.

MashmalloMan

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Meanwhile DK is the attrition class

Why do you think they added the damage done bonus to stone fist? It's the same buff as this set, many people use stone fist to keep up the 3 stacks then switch to flurry spam.

Maulkin wrote: »

Niche but performs very well on DW StamSorc with Flurry, Axe bleed, poisons and vMA 2H backbar in no-CP.

WTB stamina Draugrkin mirror set. I refuse to use a magicka set.

In Greymoor, there is a craftable stamina set called Dragon's Appetite that gives +225 damage done to any enemy that's taking bleeding damage. If you use a VMA 2H with stampede, Carve from 2H or the DW ultimate, you can apply aoe bleed dots. It also gives a 6.4k heal every 10s or so, basically an aoe stamina Draughkins Grip.

Maulkin

MashmalloMan wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Meanwhile DK is the attrition class

Why do you think they added the damage done bonus to stone fist? It's the same buff as this set, many people use stone fist to keep up the 3 stacks then switch to flurry spam.

Maulkin wrote: »

Niche but performs very well on DW StamSorc with Flurry, Axe bleed, poisons and vMA 2H backbar in no-CP.

WTB stamina Draugrkin mirror set. I refuse to use a magicka set.

In Greymoor, there is a craftable stamina set called Dragon's Appetite that gives +225 damage done to any enemy that's taking bleeding damage. If you use a VMA 2H with stampede, Carve from 2H or the DW ultimate, you can apply aoe bleed dots. It also gives a 6.4k heal every 10s or so, basically an aoe stamina Draughkins Grip.

Only for about a 3rd of the damage that Draugrkin does and with the requirement to proc a bleed first. Also the stacks to get the heal have a 1sec cooldown meaning a minimum of 10secs wait to get 6k tooltip heal that doesn't crit and is nerfed by 60% in PvP.

I'll test it if I find a crafter friend that has paid for Greymoor (I don't know anyone who has yet) but on paper it looks considerably weaker than Draugrkin, at least damage wise. And the point of stamsorc in no-cp pvp, is to max out your pressure.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

I tried a build for a few hours last night in noCP on my Stamblade. NMA + Draugrkin frontbar only. Backbar bow.

Venom Arrow/{swap} > Deadly Cloak > LA/Blood Craze (proc Draugrkin) > Rapid Strikes > Kra'gh > Double Dot Poisons > Axe Bleed.

Maybe 12 instances of damage per GCD. Some people melted, but those same people would get hit with a 7k+ Surprise Attack anyway. I have been getting absolutely *** on lately from people with Rapid Strikes, but who knows if they are running Draugrkin or not.

WrathOfInnos

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

For templars, forgot to add they have burning light procs which can increase that 4 to 6 hits on average per second. 7 with light attack weaving, 8 with an enchantment. 9 with barrage. 10-11 if you've applied a dot before hand. 12 if purifying light hits.

Imagine the burst this set is capable of providing. The 66% uptime is really not a huge deal. 12 hits in 1 GCD outputs 7200 extra damage.

Stack your dots and spam sweeps.

If anything, the set is overturned, it really doesn't have anything to do with Stamina builds and more to do with the set.

It’s not that simple though. In PVE, even on builds that maximize their ticks per second, Draugrkin still underperforms. It ends up being a slightly weaker form of Spell Strat (single target set with no cleave, and even worse when trying to switch targets due to the longer cooldown). Very strange for a PVP set to excel in PVE, while the dungeon equivalent is only useful in PVP. I still suspect something unexpected is going on with its proc in PVP.

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

For templars, forgot to add they have burning light procs which can increase that 4 to 6 hits on average per second. 7 with light attack weaving, 8 with an enchantment. 9 with barrage. 10-11 if you've applied a dot before hand. 12 if purifying light hits.

Imagine the burst this set is capable of providing. The 66% uptime is really not a huge deal. 12 hits in 1 GCD outputs 7200 extra damage.

Stack your dots and spam sweeps.

If anything, the set is overturned, it really doesn't have anything to do with Stamina builds and more to do with the set.

It’s not that simple though. In PVE, even on builds that maximize their ticks per second, Draugrkin still underperforms. It ends up being a slightly weaker form of Spell Strat (single target set with no cleave, and even worse when trying to switch targets due to the longer cooldown). Very strange for a PVP set to excel in PVE, while the dungeon equivalent is only useful in PVP. I still suspect something unexpected is going on with its proc in PVP.

I was talking about pvp.

WrathOfInnos

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

For templars, forgot to add they have burning light procs which can increase that 4 to 6 hits on average per second. 7 with light attack weaving, 8 with an enchantment. 9 with barrage. 10-11 if you've applied a dot before hand. 12 if purifying light hits.

Imagine the burst this set is capable of providing. The 66% uptime is really not a huge deal. 12 hits in 1 GCD outputs 7200 extra damage.

Stack your dots and spam sweeps.

If anything, the set is overturned, it really doesn't have anything to do with Stamina builds and more to do with the set.

It’s not that simple though. In PVE, even on builds that maximize their ticks per second, Draugrkin still underperforms. It ends up being a slightly weaker form of Spell Strat (single target set with no cleave, and even worse when trying to switch targets due to the longer cooldown). Very strange for a PVP set to excel in PVE, while the dungeon equivalent is only useful in PVP. I still suspect something unexpected is going on with its proc in PVP.

I was talking about pvp.

I was talking about ESO.

DukeDiewalker

ThePedge

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

For templars, forgot to add they have burning light procs which can increase that 4 to 6 hits on average per second. 7 with light attack weaving, 8 with an enchantment. 9 with barrage. 10-11 if you've applied a dot before hand. 12 if purifying light hits.

Imagine the burst this set is capable of providing. The 66% uptime is really not a huge deal. 12 hits in 1 GCD outputs 7200 extra damage.

Stack your dots and spam sweeps.

If anything, the set is overturned, it really doesn't have anything to do with Stamina builds and more to do with the set.

It’s not that simple though. In PVE, even on builds that maximize their ticks per second, Draugrkin still underperforms. It ends up being a slightly weaker form of Spell Strat (single target set with no cleave, and even worse when trying to switch targets due to the longer cooldown). Very strange for a PVP set to excel in PVE, while the dungeon equivalent is only useful in PVP. I still suspect something unexpected is going on with its proc in PVP.

I was talking about pvp.

I was talking about ESO.

No one claimed Draugrkin performed well in PvE?

WrathOfInnos

ThePedge wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's just rapid strikes because it has 5 instances of damage within a GCD. The trade off is getting very little from a light armor set on the 2-4 piece bonuses. Stam Sorcs can stack a lot of instances of damage via Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, Flurry, etc by the time they come in to melee range. So it's obvious why the set works well for them.

If you don't like it, adapt. We don't need to force a magicka set to only be usuable by magicka classes. If a magicka class was able to output as many instances of damage, it would be just as strong, but people are sleeping on the set.

The closest options for Magicka in terms of a spammable is 4 hits from Sweeps on Templar or 3 hits from Force Shock. Templar can also pre buff with Solar Barrage and Ritrual of Retribution. Necro can use siphon for ticks every half second. List goes on. However, Magicka is going to actually benefit from the 2-4 piece bonuses more than any stamina build could. Try to think like a stam sorc and stack as much instances of damage as you can to get the most out of the damage done bonus.

Is there seriously anything wrong with this? If it's not bugged, adapt.

@MashmalloMan Interesting points. A Magicka build can hit several ticks per spammable as well. As you pointed out, Crushing Shock is 3, but each of those 3 also has a 20% chance to proc a status effect (rapid strikes and jabs/sweeps don’t have status effects) so on average it’s 3.6 instant damage ticks per spammable. With Charged that increases to 4.26 ticks per cast, or with a Perfect Asylum Staff is 4.8 ticks per cast. That’s only considering the first tick of Burning too, it will continue to tick a couple more times.

Surprising that Draugrkin isn’t being used on Mag builds if it’s that powerful. I’m still curious if there’s something strange going on with battle spirit.

For templars, forgot to add they have burning light procs which can increase that 4 to 6 hits on average per second. 7 with light attack weaving, 8 with an enchantment. 9 with barrage. 10-11 if you've applied a dot before hand. 12 if purifying light hits.

Imagine the burst this set is capable of providing. The 66% uptime is really not a huge deal. 12 hits in 1 GCD outputs 7200 extra damage.

Stack your dots and spam sweeps.

If anything, the set is overturned, it really doesn't have anything to do with Stamina builds and more to do with the set.

It’s not that simple though. In PVE, even on builds that maximize their ticks per second, Draugrkin still underperforms. It ends up being a slightly weaker form of Spell Strat (single target set with no cleave, and even worse when trying to switch targets due to the longer cooldown). Very strange for a PVP set to excel in PVE, while the dungeon equivalent is only useful in PVP. I still suspect something unexpected is going on with its proc in PVP.

I was talking about pvp.

I was talking about ESO.

No one claimed Draugrkin performed well in PvE?

No one has claimed much of anything except “a Stam Sorc hurt me with it”. If anyone bothered to test and provide data we might be able to have a real discussion here and figure out if/why it is performing well. I’m still pretty skeptical about its use in PVP, especially on stam, but all of my testing of the set has been in PVE.