How to tank a price on TTC?

Dusk_Coven

I got a warning through a guildie that "someone is trying to tank Dreugh Wax prices" through TTC.
So I did a search on TTC and there were dozens of listings all apparently around the same time, in various PCNA guild kiosks, for Dreugh Wax at 1000 for 1 unit.

So how does it work? They list the item, then pull it without updating TTC, so that it sits on TTC and pulls the average and suggested price down?

idk

That is a good question. Either it is a flaw with TTC as you are suggesting or the person really is selling it for that price. Many of us that are active players have tens and even hundreds of millions of gold so listing a lot of Dreux wax for 1k might not be a big deal for some.

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

Eifleber

idk wrote: »

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

The annoying thing is that TTC is not ZOS designed but player driven so they don' t have any responsibility there.

The need for so many 3rd party addons to help the game work is one of the games' biggest flaws, imo.

VaranisArano

Eifleber wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

The annoying thing is that TTC is not ZOS designed but player driven so they don' t have any responsibility there.

The need for so many 3rd party addons to help the game work is one of the games' biggest flaws, imo.

ZOS doesn't take responsibility for what price players choose to list their goods, period. That its potentially lowering the TTC average is irrelevant - there's no rule in vanilla ESO that "thou shalt price thy dreugh wax appropriately".

What ZOS does take responsibility for is when price fluctuations are an indication, that something else is going on. A player deciding to list their store of dreugh wax at 1k to sell quick or manipulate the TTC average is fine - no rules are broken. Whereas a player who perhaps is gaining a larger than intended amount of dreugh wax via botting or an exploit...not fine, and exactly the sort of thing ZOS could investigate.

We've seen this in the past with Aetherial Dust, in particular. One time players flooded the market, and ZOS double checked it and said it was fine, they were naturally acquired. Another time, it was an exploit.

That's the point of tagging ZOS.
The price manipulation isn't something ZOS cares about ever as long as the items are legitimately acquired.
Its just a question of whether or not those items are in fact legitimately acquired, and only ZOS can figure that out.

idk

Eifleber wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

The annoying thing is that TTC is not ZOS designed but player driven so they don' t have any responsibility there.

The need for so many 3rd party addons to help the game work is one of the games' biggest flaws, imo.

Yes, I am aware that Zos does not create addons nor do they support them.

However, I was tagging Gina because there could be something going on in-game they might be interested in and responsible for. Players have uncovered nefarious activities using trading add-ons that Zos too great interest in and even banned some accounts. Gold sellers were livid. LOL.

Interestingly, so many exploits and gold-selling activities are hidden in games that do not have these add-ons.

ItMustBeThursday

TTC is a seriously flawed addon, it has no checksum or security measures to ensure the data being sent to TTC servers is accurate or coming from an actual ESO client.
This problem technically exists completely outside of ESO itself and is outside of the purview of ZOS support.

What needs to happen is for TTC to use more appropriate measures to ensure their addon data is actually coming from the game.

Until then...

Enjoy the cheap wax

ItMustBeThursday

idk wrote: »

That is a good question. Either it is a flaw with TTC as you are suggesting or the person really is selling it for that price. Many of us that are active players have tens and even hundreds of millions of gold so listing a lot of Dreux wax for 1k might not be a big deal for some.

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

LOL I'm 100% sure this is not being accomplished by listing cheap wax. It's a problem with the way TTC works not related to anything in game.

They have a way to just upload price tables to their website, there's no system to prevent someone from uploading bad info

Dusk_Coven

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

What needs to happen is for TTC to use more appropriate measures to ensure their addon data is actually coming from the game.

The real problem -- as always -- are cheaters and exploiters. And ESO has a concentration of both that are unchecked. More than that, ESO allows a lot of exploiting, like AP boosting in unlocked campaigns.
If we want TTC to support anti-cheating, let's just get a global auction house for ESO instead -- or not, if ZOS lets people somehow cheat it and completely mess up the listings.

idk

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That is a good question. Either it is a flaw with TTC as you are suggesting or the person really is selling it for that price. Many of us that are active players have tens and even hundreds of millions of gold so listing a lot of Dreux wax for 1k might not be a big deal for some.

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

LOL I'm 100% sure this is not being accomplished by listing cheap wax. It's a problem with the way TTC works not related to anything in game.

They have a way to just upload price tables to their website, there's no system to prevent someone from uploading bad info

LOL. Good for you.

If what you say it true then it makes even more sense for me to tag Zos on it and less for you to be critical about it.

Cheers.

ItMustBeThursday

idk wrote: »

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That is a good question. Either it is a flaw with TTC as you are suggesting or the person really is selling it for that price. Many of us that are active players have tens and even hundreds of millions of gold so listing a lot of Dreux wax for 1k might not be a big deal for some.

Though there is another possibility which is why I am tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno so Zos can make sure nothing nefarious or unintended is occurring.

LOL I'm 100% sure this is not being accomplished by listing cheap wax. It's a problem with the way TTC works not related to anything in game.

They have a way to just upload price tables to their website, there's no system to prevent someone from uploading bad info

LOL. Good for you.

If what you say it true then it makes even more sense for me to tag Zos on it and less for you to be critical about it.

Cheers.

lol, the person to tag is the creator of TTC, his uploads happen completely outside of ESO, the addon isnt even what does it, the client.exe or web upload are responsible, which is where the security hole lies, and why ZoS can't help with it

Taleof2Cities

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

If we want TTC to support anti-cheating, let's just get a global auction house for ESO instead -- or not, if ZOS lets people somehow cheat it and completely mess up the listings.

This is not the golden case study that you want it to be, @Dusk_Coven.

Players can list goods at any price they want ... unintentional or nefarious, guild traders or auction house.

Dolgubon

ItMustBeThursday wrote: »

TTC is a seriously flawed addon, it has no checksum or security measures to ensure the data being sent to TTC servers is accurate or coming from an actual ESO client.
This problem technically exists completely outside of ESO itself and is outside of the purview of ZOS support.

What needs to happen is for TTC to use more appropriate measures to ensure their addon data is actually coming from the game.

Until then...

Enjoy the cheap wax

No matter what checksums or security measures are done to prevent someone from sending false data(and probably nothing there anyway), there's NOTHING that can be done to verify whether it comes from an unmodified game, and isn't a 'spoofed' listing. You can even directly edit the addon code (that's run in-game, not the .exe ofc) and there's nothing that they can do to stop that, because addons for ESO need to be in plain text.

Just be happy that we have as much as we have, and be aware of the limitations.

redspecter23

TTC is just a guide. Unfortunately some people will follow it blindly without realizing where those numbers come from. If someone wants to manipulate the system like this, they can't really be stopped. Smart players will see right through it, but plenty of people will assume something has happened organically in the game to cause this artificial drop.

cyx54tc

Just to give everyone an update:

The person got IP banned from the site (including his three VPN IP from Korea and Japan). This however is not a permanent solution.

Luckily I have been working on an auto fraud detection system long ago and it was nearly done. I was planning on deploying it after at least 1 month of test run to make sure it is not too aggressive to ban innocent players but the situation left me with no choice.

Here is what to expect:
1. If you got banned from the site and you did not attempt to trick the system please drop me a message or email and I will verify it manually.
2. There might be some performance impact during peak hours. I will try to work on optimization as soon as possible.
3. Price calculation will now exclude all data that the system considers as fraud.

The system also detected around 5 players who tries to drag the price up by posting high priced fake listings. No action will be taken this time but the system will automatically ban such action as well so do not do it anymore.

P.S. by looking at the data from today's price calculation i can confirm the system is working. All the fake data that he sent was filtered out.