The constant change to abilities, sets, and the spreadsheet balancing

Vildebill

Yet another big update is on the way for the game, and the same things that's been going on for the last year is happening again. Each update some ability is altered just to be nerfed or buffed the next patch. Same goes with sets. The things that was fun before are getting nerfed. And what's achieved from ZOS's end? Just other sets and skills being used, some people have had enough of the grind of new gear and new characters and leave. Some new thing is better this time, which gets nerfed next update to appeal the spreadsheet balancing guy. The new Veiled Strike is a good example of that. All of a sudden, an instant damaging skill gets a stun, good damage, and a debuff. Weren't we going away from that some while ago? Crystal Frags? Dizzying Swing?

In this update, someone thought it's good to change old monster sets just for the sake of spreadsheet balancing. Same thing happened to Asylum destruction staff. Sets that's been working fine for a long time, sets that was appreciated. Especially the revived Asylum staff on the MagDK, so many people actually enjoyed both using Force Pulse instead of whip, getting some unique effect that synergized well with the class, and using a hard achieved weapon. Or Bloodspawn that is a really popular, yet not overpowered, set in PvP. Couln't you just have toned the sets down a little bit instead of gutting them completely?

I understand, in theory, what you're trying to achieve. Some kind of balance. But it baffles me every time these changes come, and go through PTS to live. Even though most ZOS employees obviously doesn't play their game in any high level content, they could at least listen to all the guys and girls that do, because they always give a lot of good feedback.

I've been here since beta, subbed the whole time, and have had a blast over the years. But it's been getting boring lately. Constant changes, identity and flavor in skills and sets are being toned down. Greymoor seems to be just a PR thing to get Skyrim players. Maybe it's just me, but I'm started to feel that the time to move is on approaching

ThePedge

How come Jabs never gets brought up in overloaded skills discussion?
As good damage as any spammable, partially AoE, grants a major savagery and snares. Plus can proc an over-tuned passive.

5% shred on Surprise Attack is equivalent to Minor Fracture on enemies with 26400 resistance. Which is pretty pathetic. Not play tested the stun yet but without being able to control it and the awful performance I bet it's a nerf to anything but ganking.

But your overall point is right, they clearly have no idea what they are doing. The new Spectral Cloak is far stronger than the old, they killed the set then made it even better than originally in two weeks.

Firstmep

ThePedge wrote: »

How come Jabs never gets brought up in overloaded skills discussion?
As good damage as any spammable, partially AoE, grants a major savagery and snares. Plus can proc an over-tuned passive.

5% shred on Surprise Attack is equivalent to Minor Fracture on enemies with 26400 resistance. Which is pretty pathetic. Not play tested the stun yet but without being able to control it and the awful performance I bet it's a nerf to anything but ganking.

But your overall point is right, they clearly have no idea what they are doing. The new Spectral Cloak is far stronger than the old, they killed the set then made it even better than originally in two weeks.

In pvp biting jabs is really only threathing if you get locked down by multiple people or you are a complete potato that didn't learn the basics of fighting Templars.
The major savagery buff on jabs is kinda whatever these days, in Pve you already get the buff from pots, in pvp most stamplar run camo hunter for minor berserk anyway.
The snare is only relevant if the last hit lands.
If you are in medium armour, use elude and you'll be able to get away from jabbing Templars with ease.
If you think burning light is overturned now, you clearly weren't here when magplars used to run blazing spear to stun people and it used to tick every 0,5 seconds so combined with sweeps you could proc burning light pretty much on cool down.

Firstmep

Vildebill wrote: »

Yet another big update is on the way for the game, and the same things that's been going on for the last year is happening again. Each update some ability is altered just to be nerfed or buffed the next patch. Same goes with sets. The things that was fun before are getting nerfed. And what's achieved from ZOS's end? Just other sets and skills being used, some people have had enough of the grind of new gear and new characters and leave. Some new thing is better this time, which gets nerfed next update to appeal the spreadsheet balancing guy. The new Veiled Strike is a good example of that. All of a sudden, an instant damaging skill gets a stun, good damage, and a debuff. Weren't we going away from that some while ago? Crystal Frags? Dizzying Swing?

In this update, someone thought it's good to change old monster sets just for the sake of spreadsheet balancing. Same thing happened to Asylum destruction staff. Sets that's been working fine for a long time, sets that was appreciated. Especially the revived Asylum staff on the MagDK, so many people actually enjoyed both using Force Pulse instead of whip, getting some unique effect that synergized well with the class, and using a hard achieved weapon. Or Bloodspawn that is a really popular, yet not overpowered, set in PvP. Couln't you just have toned the sets down a little bit instead of gutting them completely?

I understand, in theory, what you're trying to achieve. Some kind of balance. But it baffles me every time these changes come, and go through PTS to live. Even though most ZOS employees obviously doesn't play their game in any high level content, they could at least listen to all the guys and girls that do, because they always give a lot of good feedback.

I've been here since beta, subbed the whole time, and have had a blast over the years. But it's been getting boring lately. Constant changes, identity and flavor in skills and sets are being toned down. Greymoor seems to be just a PR thing to get Skyrim players. Maybe it's just me, but I'm started to feel that the time to move is on approaching

I'm not sure I get your point? Do you not want them to balance the game?
They don't just change stuff to chase a balanced game, it's also to keep things fresh.
For the last year or so the Stam meta has almost completely revolved around the same couple of sets and playstyle, I can't think of anything more boring than that.
Problem is, a lot of the changes they make are knee jerk reactions, the massive dot nerfs are a prime example for that.
As far as our feedback is concerned, there are so many differing opinions out there, I bet it's not easy to pick out which one to listen to.

relentless_turnip

I actually think the changes are fine this patch. No real swings, certainly more options.
More damage and less tankiness in pvp, though i think the adjustment to healing was a bit lazy.
Vamps and werewolves are pretty strong from what I've tested.

I will miss bloodspawn being as strong... I think if they increased the proc chance to 15%-20% the changes would be fine.

Vildebill

Firstmep wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Yet another big update is on the way for the game, and the same things that's been going on for the last year is happening again. Each update some ability is altered just to be nerfed or buffed the next patch. Same goes with sets. The things that was fun before are getting nerfed. And what's achieved from ZOS's end? Just other sets and skills being used, some people have had enough of the grind of new gear and new characters and leave. Some new thing is better this time, which gets nerfed next update to appeal the spreadsheet balancing guy. The new Veiled Strike is a good example of that. All of a sudden, an instant damaging skill gets a stun, good damage, and a debuff. Weren't we going away from that some while ago? Crystal Frags? Dizzying Swing?

In this update, someone thought it's good to change old monster sets just for the sake of spreadsheet balancing. Same thing happened to Asylum destruction staff. Sets that's been working fine for a long time, sets that was appreciated. Especially the revived Asylum staff on the MagDK, so many people actually enjoyed both using Force Pulse instead of whip, getting some unique effect that synergized well with the class, and using a hard achieved weapon. Or Bloodspawn that is a really popular, yet not overpowered, set in PvP. Couln't you just have toned the sets down a little bit instead of gutting them completely?

I understand, in theory, what you're trying to achieve. Some kind of balance. But it baffles me every time these changes come, and go through PTS to live. Even though most ZOS employees obviously doesn't play their game in any high level content, they could at least listen to all the guys and girls that do, because they always give a lot of good feedback.

I've been here since beta, subbed the whole time, and have had a blast over the years. But it's been getting boring lately. Constant changes, identity and flavor in skills and sets are being toned down. Greymoor seems to be just a PR thing to get Skyrim players. Maybe it's just me, but I'm started to feel that the time to move is on approaching

I'm not sure I get your point? Do you not want them to balance the game?
They don't just change stuff to chase a balanced game, it's also to keep things fresh.
For the last year or so the Stam meta has almost completely revolved around the same couple of sets and playstyle, I can't think of anything more boring than that.
Problem is, a lot of the changes they make are knee jerk reactions, the massive dot nerfs are a prime example for that.
As far as our feedback is concerned, there are so many differing opinions out there, I bet it's not easy to pick out which one to listen to.

[Snip] One patch it's a DoT-rotation that's best, next patch all DoTs gets nerfed 30% or so. Next patch Asylum Staff works fine, and next patch it's nerfed. And so it goes, just to chase that "power budget" equality, or what they now are calling it. What's being nerfed next patch? Infused jewelry trait? Precise? Divines? Who knows, especially not ZOS.

[Edited for bashing]