Increase penalty for leaving dungeon in the first 10 minutes

pauld1_ESO · May 2020

Seriously tired of this....I sit in queue as DPS for 30 freaking minutes and some jerk high champ level tank see not everyone is CP 10000000000 and quits as soon as he gets in. If you don't want to do pledges with us lowly 300 CP people then #$%^ing don't PUG.

[Edit to remove bait]

Dusk_Coven · May 2020

If a fake tank refuses to leave and their fake-heal teammate refuses to vote kick, what are you going to do?
Leave and accept your higher penalty? Or waste 10x the amount of time trying to complete the dungeon with no proper tank or healer when the team really needs them? (no, not every team can 4 DD a dungeon)
Either way, you didn't do anything wrong but you lose. And your increased time penalty for jerk tanks just hit you when it's not even that situation.

It's a complex problem and increasing the time penalty won't necessarily target the correct persons or the correct situations.

justaquickword · May 2020

I agree but the obvious problem is some people will get unduly punished when they get disconnected.

I do sympathise though. Had a tank yesterday who quit after 5 minutes because he demanded a "No death" run from a pug.

V. Annoying.

BackStabeth · May 2020

No....

I have no problem playing with anyone in normal dungeons, of any level, none at all. But when I queue I am expecting people to play the role they have queued for. I slot my abilities according to my own role, and I don't slot other abilities so that I can absorb more damage or heal more often.

If I am queued with a group and it's obvious there is a fake tank or fake healer, I'm gone. Not because I can't do the dungeon with those people and complete it, but because I have slotted abilities to fulfill my role and should take the time to slot abilities to fill other roles since I am not going to have support in a real tank or healer. For people who are new, with lower CP it's even worse, many times they have not even trained up those skills.

A lot of times the fake tank or healer might be 810 and try to make up for the lack of fulfilling their role by running ahead and trying to kill everything themselves before anyone else. This does nothing to fix the issues and does nothing for people who are new to the dungeon.

Increasing the penalty would be a huge giant mistake.

Do you honestly want to play with a tank that doesn't want to do a dungeon with the pug they are teamed with? Do you really want a tank that feels they would rather bail and wait in queue again?

There is also the fact that even for a tank, it can take a long time to get a pug in queue. So waiting around 15 min, then however long in queue is probably going to end up being longer than any penalty.

I do pugs for undaunted every day, rarely do I ever do them with people whom I know unless I am helping someone new in my guild. I get teamed up with all kinds of people of all kinds of different skill levels and CP. I actually find that people with lower CP seem to try harder and ask more questions which makes them far easier to play with in a normal dungeon. I find people who queue for vet dungeons and are higher CP tend to kick those with lower CP or if they don't have the crown, bail. But I rarely see anyone bounce in a normal dungeon unless there is a fake tank or healer. Normal dungeons are so easy that if everyone plays their role, you can easily complete them with no issues. I would suggest that those who are leaving notice something wrong with the group, like there is a fake healer or tank. Not because people are low CP.

And if you are someone who is 810, and bail on people who are lower CP in a normal dungeon, then you would probably be better off doing a queue with friends. You have been playing long enough you should have many you can do the dungeons with, or with people in your guilds.

But extending the penalty? No, I'm going to bail on fake tanks and healers every time. None of those people are ever going to be rewarded by me playing with them if they queue outside their roles. We all should be bailing on fake tanks and healers every time we encounter them, they don't deserve to be rewarded for cheating the queue.

Icy_Waffles · May 2020

I leave when I join and dps is abysmal. This may be the case here.

zvavi · May 2020

No thanks. If anything make it shorter. So tired of bugs.

Haquor · May 2020

It may not just be your CP level that makes them leave.

Maybe life.

Maybe if they are really high CP it may be that they queued into the normal by accident and they wanted 2 keys or a monster mask from vet. I am guilty of making that mistake before.

In saying that normal base game dungeons you can usually get on with without a tank if you have a healer and a couple of dps. Especially if you are cp300 as you say.

Or slot a taunt (critical point..... slot a taunt) and q as a tank for base game normals on pledge day. Instapop.

Either way, punishing people more is not a solution in an mmo in my opinion. How about incentivise them more?

Universe · May 2020

I understand your frustration but increasing the time penalty isn't the answer.
A few days ago I couldn't even teleport or manually enter the dungeon due to a bug.
The other 3 players could enter.
When I left the group due to the bug I received the 15 minutes penalty.
The Group Dungeon queue has numerous bugs, not to mention the obvious bugs inside the Dungeons...

kmcaj · May 2020

Sometimes when I take off as a tank it's not because of your level, it's that it's late and I was just doing a random normal and hoping for fg1 or something. Then I get some dlc I don't want to sit through and log out and go to bed. Just saying increasing timer wouldn't help. It would just *** me off more when I'm on the dps side of it (like yourself) or when game bugs out which happens often.

DyingIsEasy · May 2020

I agree that this absolutely sucks.
But calling the tank in this situation a "moronic elitist" is just BM.
I mean from the tanks perspective maybe it is you who should not be pugging because you are unable to deal with someone instantly leaving.

scorpius2k1 · May 2020

Thing is though, the game code should be able to EASILY detect the difference from a network disconnect vs a player manually leaving the group. This logic should also apply if the group kicks them.

Further extending the other part of the grouping issue is intentional fake roles. Here's an idea, maybe an option to choose your role on the character select screen instead of the in-game menus (can still be changed anytime). Would it stop them? No. But it would be a slight deterrent since you would need to set it first or relog to change your role. Anything to make it more annoying to circumvent the system, because it sure is "OK" for someone to just fake role and either get kicked or just leave the group (ah, there is a good place for that penalty increase).

I'm all for OP's suggestion, I share their frustration! Que times suck for DPS, the main reason for fake roles being so widespread, but it's still no excuse especially if you're inconveniencing a group of players who legitimately play. Remember, we choose our initial role when we created our toon and should be well aware of any negative side effects. It's not ZoS fault (even know their group finder STINKS), but a typical problem in literally every MMO that should be basic knowledge unless you are brand-new to MMO's. A 30 minute penalty would be fair place to start imho. It's not hard to be a decent person, if you choose a role, play it proper and stay in the group you qued for instead of wasting their time----or if not, have the problem player have their time wasted too. They might remember that next time they que up for a GROUP based activity.

.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

That is ZOS's problem, not tanks problem. You probably got into a dungeon which difficulty is too high for vast majority of low CP players.
I may only advise to slap Stormproof / Flawless Conqueror title on, then high CP players will be sure that you won't be a dead weight.

Throxx · May 2020

I'll totally bail in the first 10 seconds if it's a long dlc dungeon and I dont have time for it. Has nothing to do with cp levels.

Bobby_V_Rockit · May 2020

Maybe they just didnt want to do that particular dungeon. I bail immediately if a DLC dung pops, normal or vet. Nothing to do with other players, I just dont like the DLCs

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

If it's a normal dungeon and the tank was such a high CP do you think it was could be they accidentally queued normals?

bmnoble · May 2020

To be honest it won't do anything, as a tank if I leave a group for what ever reason, I will wait a while before re entering the queue, simple because you could end up right back with the group you left, when using the random group finder.

The only time I care about a players level is in DLC dungeons or in Vet difficulty.

The main thing that makes me leave a group is low group damage, that can make a dungeon that should take half an hour at most into an hour+ slog or simply not complete-able.

I use to stick it out with what ever group I got but no longer have the patience for that, its just quicker to try your luck with another group most of the time.

Ratzkifal · May 2020

There should be a checkmark in groupfinder to avoid backfill.

If you managed to lose a tank at the last boss of vet Spindleclutch 1 on the day it's a pledge, you shouldn't be able to take other people's time hostage like that and force them to finish your mess of a dungeon run with you first before they get to do the content they actually queued up for... or you know, force them to take a penalty for leaving.

You can call me selfish for leaving that group, but I asked nicely if we could reset the dungeon and start over and all I got was something in russian from the 233CP group lead that I didn't understand and no response from the 810CP guy that was also there while we queued for a healer. I'd rather take the 15min than be stuck until a healer decides to be merciful only to then have to do the entire dungeon another time because I couldn't kill the first bosses of the pledge.

With a backfill checkmark people could choose when they want to be generous and helpful and when they want to actually get things done.

luen79rwb17_ESO · May 2020

I mean no offense, I always stick to any team I join if I'm certain the dungeon is doable. Unfortunately not all dungeons are doable with low CP DPS around. It's the sad truth. So I understand why people leave. Not everoyne wanna invest 1+ hrs on their lives doing a run that can run much faster.

What you should do instead is go grind some XP somewhere else or do the random normal dungeon for XP instead of complaining on the forums. It's so easy to gain levels nowadays so it shouldn't be an excuse that it takes too long or something.

Also you can do runs with guildies. There are plenty of helpful guilds our there. Much more than the amount of deserters. ESO has alot of helpful players.

FrancisCrawford · May 2020

If you feel that way -- which is quite understandable -- why queue for random dungeons in the first place?

Jakx · May 2020

Then the game needs higher minimum CP requirements for some of the DLC dungeons. Avoid this altogether.

Throxx · May 2020

For the daily rewards and undaunted exp.

MaxJrFTW · May 2020

Stop queuing for vet DLC dungeons if you're low cp. I know i will continue to leave vet dungeons right away every time there's 2 or more players below 600cp. In fact they could make the penalty an hour and i would still leave instantly.

Some of the DLC dungeons need a higher CP requirement, especially the likes of Moon Hunter Keep, Frostvault, Depths of Malatar, and maybe i'd put Scalecaller Peak in that group as well. 300cp players have no business in them.

I do give them the benefit of the doubt at times with my healer because i can pull 50k+ dps on trash and 20-30k on bosses. If i'm doing more than 50% of the group's dps as a healer i leave as well. That means the other dps aren't trying, and i'm not here to carry anyone.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

If it was a normal dungeon there is no need for a tanky tbh. Just burn it down without them. Problem Solved

Not enough deeps, just reach out to members of your guilds or friends and invite someone. Problem solved

Not seeing a reason for what you requested in the OP.

Why should everyone be punished for your experiences on a normal dungeon queue.

Sorry you had a frustrating time but it was a fixable situation

mocap · May 2020

it's not a penalty. It is dungeon finder queue cooldown. Once in the dungeon you get 15 minutes cooldown want it or not.

Kurat · May 2020

It's not just tanks leaving. Healers and dps bail often too when dlc dungeon pops. People want the random xp bonus and hope to get FG1 lol.
I only tank vet dlc dungeons and I never judge people by their cp. I've seen cp300 players pull good dps and some cp810 only 10k. I always do couple of trash pulls or 1st boss. And if dps too low then leave.

Larcomar · May 2020

.[/quote]
Re [Further extending the other part of the grouping issue is intentional fake roles. Here's an idea, maybe an option to choose your role on the character select screen instead of the in-game menus (can still be changed anytime). Would it stop them? No. But it would be a slight deterrent since you would need to set it first or relog to change your role. Anything to make it more annoying to circumvent the system, because it sure is "OK" for someone to just fake role and either get kicked or just leave the group (ah, there is a good place for that penalty increase).

.[/quote]

Things is, some of us can and do perform multiple roles - properly. My sorc dps's vet pledges,tanks rnds and acts as a back up healer. It's really not difficult when you have like 300 skill points and all your skills maxed. I really don't want to have to log out each time I change role. Unless they make it was faster than it usually is. Some of the time you also want to be able to switch roles within a group - I've been in dungeons where, like OP says, a high cp tank bails because somoneones 'too low' and the rest of us refuse to kick him/her. I'd much rather slap on my tank gear and take over than either bail on the group or wait an eternity of a tank to show. Recruiting a second DPS is pretty easy. Getting a replacement tank isnt.

Septimus_Magna · May 2020

First of all, as a tank you're in for a very long and frustrating run if you notice on the first trash pull that your Lightning Blockade is doing 15% of the group dps. I wish I was making this number up but unfortunately I see it a couple times each week.

There are other reasons for leaving than bad dps. Sometimes I want to do a pledge and I get ported into the dungeons at the 3rd boss. Often there is a reason why a group is at the 3rd boss without a tank so I just dont do that anymore. Some people also have trouble reading the HM requirement and dont read chat if you try to explain it.

The penalty for leaving a group is a terrible design decision as long as you dont have the guarantee that you start a dungeon from the first boss. I would also like the option of queuing with players above CP600 or something, just to increase the chance that you get in a group with like-minded people.

For me tanking is the most frustrating role because you cannot deal enough dmg to carry the group. Even if you do everything right, with 30k group dps it will take very long and in some cases its just not enough to clear it.

clocksstoppe · May 2020

Tank won't leave unless dds are doing trash dps. Even if you made the penalty longer they would still leave because you're not finishing that vet dlc dungeon in in 30min-1hr, you will in 3-4hr. Fundamentally the issue is on your side. You literally outnumber the tanks 100:1 at least, why should they put up with your poor build and gamestyle that you invested nothing into when they have the choice to play with others?

Tsar_Gekkou · May 2020

Honestly, if I do a random dungeon on my healer and it takes both dds an inordinate amount of time to kill the first add pull, i'm out. We only have 24 hours in a day and i'm not trying to waste 1-2 of mine because the dds just run around in circles light attacking everything.

DJfriede · May 2020

If people leave right at the start of a dungeon, I doubt that it has anything to do with the CP level of their team members. Like others said: More likely it is a DLC dungeon they don't like, a dungeon not being worth the hassle in general.

I play as a tank (a full tank, not a fake one) and I give lower-mid CP DDs the benefit of the doubt, but only until the first trash pull or the first boss. A combined 15k group dps with me doing 25% of it is not going to cut it and I will leave. In most cases there is a direct correlation between low dps and low CP level.

As one guy on the forums said: DDs wait in queues, tanks wait in dungeons. Please, as any role, have the decency to look up some guides on how to best perform in your role. I expect that from tanks, healers and DDs.

Raudgrani · May 2020

Activity finder groups are a joke, and it's getting worse again for some reason. I've stopped joining them, unless I know I can solo them.

You have fake tanks that are actually bad DD's, healer that's not a healer is the norm (actual healers are VERY rare now), and really, really bad DD's - even if they might be fully leveled. Part of the reason for the later, is probably because you have PVP people going in with their full PVP setup to level undaunted or get some monster set.

No, I don't care for non DLC dungeons - and there should be a way to queue for NON DLC dungeons, non DLC/DLC and DLC dungeons alone. I am pretty sure this would solve much of the problem. I always try groups out, and you generally find out within the first couple of minutes (maximum) if there's any use going on with them at all. When you step into vet Frostvault, and both DD's are oneshot by the very first Durzogs, there's no reason to speculate.

A few times you get into a good group which works just as it should, and I've made three new friends through this - and they wait for me every day now - same time, same place - to have the pledges done. We have been getting skins and personalities and what not too together. I guess I was just really lucky, but you need to be lucky sometimes too, right?