Scroll, Emp, and Keep Bonuses

Aquatorch

It is unbelievably annoying to fight someone with all the scroll buffs, all the keep buffs, and the emp buffs (even if they aren't emp). It's like you're fighting someone with an extra 5-piece set of armor on or even more actually. Why is it acceptable to punish the losing faction by making the winning faction considerably more powerful? It just doesn't make sense and those buffs should be changed to something that honors fair game-play instead. For example, each scroll could give you 2% more AP, etc, etc.

I'm an avid PC/NA PvPer who plays on a daily basis. These days I'm forced to play on the standard campaign because whatever changes ZOS made with recent updates causes me to lag till death in the good campaign. With that said, the standard has been almost 100% DC owned for about 80% of the time. It's already tough as it is to fight superior numbers, so please for the love of the game, ZOS, drop the bonuses!

Dirt_Rooster

You're wasting your breath. Nothing you said matters when you can't activate abilities, move, or see what state your health bar is actually in.

Aquatorch

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

You're wasting your breath. Nothing you said matters when you can't activate abilities, move, or see what state your health bar is actually in.

It is very sad that the state of the game has declined to this... Everything you've said is correct though.

Jakx

The COVENANT is full of the best PvPers. So in a small-scale, non-lag environment, we dominate.

If you're ready to actually perform on the battlefield, you should be blue.

[Edit to remove bait]

Aquatorch

Jakx wrote: »

The COVENANT is full of the best PvPers. So in a small-scale, non-lag environment, we dominate.

If you're ready to actually perform on the battlefield, you should be blue.

Cool, thanks for sharing. I'm not one of the 'best' PvPers, so in the mean-time it'd be great if certain factions didn't get uplifts.

Heimpai

Jakx wrote: »

The COVENANT is full of the best PvPers. So in a small-scale, non-lag environment, we dominate.

If you're ready to actually perform on the battlefield, you should be blue.

Ah, I understand why dc hides in no cp now, having twice the pop means small scale

evoniee

i think they not gonna change it...

Australien

Aquatorch wrote: »

It is unbelievably annoying to fight someone with all the scroll buffs, all the keep buffs, and the emp buffs (even if they aren't emp). It's like you're fighting someone with an extra 5-piece set of armor on or even more actually. Why is it acceptable to punish the losing faction by making the winning faction considerably more powerful? It just doesn't make sense and those buffs should be changed to something that honors fair game-play instead. For example, each scroll could give you 2% more AP, etc, etc.

I'm an avid PC/NA PvPer who plays on a daily basis. These days I'm forced to play on the standard campaign because whatever changes ZOS made with recent updates causes me to lag till death in the good campaign. With that said, the standard has been almost 100% DC owned for about 80% of the time. It's already tough as it is to fight superior numbers, so please for the love of the game, ZOS, drop the bonuses!

Playing in an off-peak time means generally less AD online. Trying to play solo against the faction with all the buffs makes for unsatisfying gameplay. After being killed repeatedly for trying to do something, anything, is so frustrating that I log off. I, also cannot play in the Alliance Locked campaign because of my geo-location hindering latency. After so many years, it would make for a refreshing change to the gameplay if you addressed this.

Aquatorch

Playing in an off-peak time means generally less AD online. Trying to play solo against the faction with all the buffs makes for unsatisfying gameplay. After being killed repeatedly for trying to do something, anything, is so frustrating that I log off. I, also cannot play in the Alliance Locked campaign because of my geo-location hindering latency. After so many years, it would make for a refreshing change to the gameplay if you addressed this.

Thanks for your reply Australien. I hope more people speak up about this so ZOS understand that it really is an issue that needs to be addressed.

magblade88

Yeah it would be nice to see some other type of incentive for taking keeps and getting emp. With the right incentive we could actually get more people to pvp.

Something like Daoc did back in the day with darkness falls. The more keeps a faction has the more xp,ap,gold everyone gets in that faction even in the overland zones. There is no reason atm for people to have any type realm loyalty. Give people a reason to pvp zos.

Midyear mayhem is always popular so why not have events like this more often. So much potential in pvp land if your guys could just put a little effort into it.

Aquatorch

magblade88 wrote: »

Yeah it would be nice to see some other type of incentive for taking keeps and getting emp. With the right incentive we could actually get more people to pvp.

Something like Daoc did back in the day with darkness falls. The more keeps a faction has the more xp,ap,gold everyone gets in that faction even in the overland zones. There is no reason atm for people to have any type realm loyalty. Give people a reason to pvp zos.

Midyear mayhem is always popular so why not have events like this more often. So much potential in pvp land if your guys could just put a little effort into it.

I hadn't thought about it from that angle, but if people got more AP, gold, or experience, that would definitely give them an incentive to play PvP.

Reverb

This takes me back to the time when those buffs applied in pve too. So all of the competitive raid guilds expected us to maintain emp and scroll buffs for them on their home server. The pvp population was much, much higher then but players still didn’t bother to spread out. Most would wait in a 200 person queue for the main campaign and leave each faction a “buff l campaign”.

If Zeni didn’t change it then when it was of such consquence, it’s unlikely they’ll consider it now. And I don’t know that they should. But there should be more incentive to play the “underdog” low pop faction(s). This will especially be true when faction change tokens are released, and players looking for the path of least resistance will swap to the winning side, creating even more imbalance.

MincVinyl

Aquatorch wrote: »

It is unbelievably annoying to fight someone with all the scroll buffs, all the keep buffs, and the emp buffs (even if they aren't emp). It's like you're fighting someone with an extra 5-piece set of armor on or even more actually. Why is it acceptable to punish the losing faction by making the winning faction considerably more powerful? It just doesn't make sense and those buffs should be changed to something that honors fair game-play instead. For example, each scroll could give you 2% more AP, etc, etc.

I'm an avid PC/NA PvPer who plays on a daily basis. These days I'm forced to play on the standard campaign because whatever changes ZOS made with recent updates causes me to lag till death in the good campaign. With that said, the standard has been almost 100% DC owned for about 80% of the time. It's already tough as it is to fight superior numbers, so please for the love of the game, ZOS, drop the bonuses!

These also ruin the lower populated servers. Usually a guild will pvdoor a map taking everything uncontested and then when they log for the next couple of hours it will be pugs vs super pugs essentially. To top it off the super pugs just have to sit and defend, which is by design easier for random players to band together and do.

Aquatorch

Reverb wrote: »

This takes me back to the time when those buffs applied in pve too. So all of the competitive raid guilds expected us to maintain emp and scroll buffs for them on their home server. The pvp population was much, much higher then but players still didn’t bother to spread out. Most would wait in a 200 person queue for the main campaign and leave each faction a “buff l campaign”.

If Zeni didn’t change it then when it was of such consquence, it’s unlikely they’ll consider it now. And I don’t know that they should. But there should be more incentive to play the “underdog” low pop faction(s). This will especially be true when faction change tokens are released, and players looking for the path of least resistance will swap to the winning side, creating even more imbalance.

The thing is that they did change the PvE buffs because it was recognizes as a problem. However, ZOS didn't recognize it as a problem because they have zero clue about their own game. It was noticed because actual players spoke up and said it was a problem. We need players to speak out about this too and get ZOS to realize it's something that needs to be changed.

Joinovikova

Aquatorch wrote: »

It is unbelievably annoying to fight someone with all the scroll buffs, all the keep buffs, and the emp buffs (even if they aren't emp). It's like you're fighting someone with an extra 5-piece set of armor on or even more actually. Why is it acceptable to punish the losing faction by making the winning faction considerably more powerful? It just doesn't make sense and those buffs should be changed to something that honors fair game-play instead. For example, each scroll could give you 2% more AP, etc, etc.

I'm an avid PC/NA PvPer who plays on a daily basis. These days I'm forced to play on the standard campaign because whatever changes ZOS made with recent updates causes me to lag till death in the good campaign. With that said, the standard has been almost 100% DC owned for about 80% of the time. It's already tough as it is to fight superior numbers, so please for the love of the game, ZOS, drop the bonuses!

situation on EU non CP is even worst from 3 a.m. to 4 p.m.(include weekend) AD hold all scroll emp all keeps and have while DC medium pop EP medium pop AD lock pop soo they have bonnuses and more pop than DC and EP together.. if somethig not changes NOW Cyro will be one faction PVDOOR ...it is started to be unplayble.. its not funny to play agains stupidly bossted players,, with two time more population..

Aquatorch

Anyone from ZOS on that can look this thread over and comment on it?

Have you seen the NA standard campaign lately? If not, here are the current scores:

1st - 109,109
2nd - 61,576
3rd - 55,815

This is a serious problem and it's happening non-stop. We as players cannot fix the issue, only you (ZOS) can. The first of many, many fixes needed is to remove the increase power and defense bonuses from scrolls/emp and make it an even playing field.

In a situation where one faction owns everything and they have a small group of only four players or so, they can easily defeat an unorganized group of 15 or so without the buffs. All I'm asking here is for you to make the playing field even. If someone out there is better than another person because they play better, so be it, but they shouldn't be better because they have bonus stats.

Durham

On the smaller pop server where so many of us like to call our home because we can actually play our classes. Smaller group play dominates this campaign 2 to 10 man groups are the norm. Aqua has a point most people that play on this server take keeps to get fights not for buffs. The system currently rewards who is dominating with the most population the most with buffs.

Can we get just 1 employee to work on PVP? please just 1 guy please? I think we contribute enough to the game for that.

EMP buffs with other buffs in a group of 4-10 in comm on our campaign is stupid. When almost all of the groups are that size or less in the other factions. When you do get emp bonuses you notice your pop will increase as well. Qthers want to take part in the fun lol. However the server overall pop decreases as people in the other factions leave to do something else. Its drastic advantage for the emp group. Usually breaks the server every time.

Aquatorch

Anyone on from ZOS willing to comment on this?

VixxVexx

Yeah, imagine giving more offensive & defensive buffs to the already winning alliance.
Don't count on the devs to change anything though.

Aquatorch

ZOS employees... Here is the current score in the PC, NA, Blackreach campaign:

1st: 119,381
2nd: 70,774
3rd: 64,166

I'm seriously begging you to please acknowledge there's an issue and work towards changing it.

Aquatorch

I am so frustrated right now... Our entire group is getting DESTROYED by only 4 DC because they have the emperor and all the scroll bonuses. We have all been forced to leave Blackreach as of right now. FACK! Fix your broken fricken game already.

Aquatorch

Final score in PC/NA/Blackreach:

1st: 119,608
2nd: 70,825
3rd: 64,296

1st place currently has all scrolls and emp bonus, so they'll start next cycle off dominating again. We will slowly lose more and more players because it's not fun to play against someone who has offensive and defensive bonuses.

mav1234

if you want balanced pvp go solo in bgs. open world is centered around objectives. those objectives should have meaning to make the fight important. it is good they provide modest buffs to the factions controlling them. they definitely get strong the more they re, but I don't see that as a problem necessarily.

yes emp is strong in a low pop campaign. it is what it is. would probably be better if emperor's strength scaled with the total players in the campaign somehow, but dunno if that is feasible.

Heimpai wrote: »

Ah, I understand why dc hides in no cp now, having twice the pop means small scale

'hides' in no cp? lol

Zabulus

Aquatorch wrote: »

Final score in PC/NA/Blackreach:

1st: 119,608
2nd: 70,825
3rd: 64,296

1st place currently has all scrolls and emp bonus, so they'll start next cycle off dominating again. We will slowly lose more and more players because it's not fun to play against someone who has offensive and defensive bonuses.

Totaly fine for ZOS. I would even give hammer to 1st faction for easy trolling you NAAAAAABBBBBZZZZ !!!!
(yes it totally sucks, on noCPeu we finished 3rd, after battling 1 full month against a faction that made most of it's points with low pop bonus ! ZOS rewards for not playing lol)

Australien

Aquatorch wrote: »

Anyone from ZOS on that can look this thread over and comment on it?

Have you seen the NA standard campaign lately? If not, here are the current scores:

1st - 109,109
2nd - 61,576
3rd - 55,815

This is a serious problem and it's happening non-stop. We as players cannot fix the issue, only you (ZOS) can. The first of many, many fixes needed is to remove the increase power and defense bonuses from scrolls/emp and make it an even playing field.

In a situation where one faction owns everything and they have a small group of only four players or so, they can easily defeat an unorganized group of 15 or so without the buffs. All I'm asking here is for you to make the playing field even. If someone out there is better than another person because they play better, so be it, but they shouldn't be better because they have bonus stats.

To put this into context, the difference between 1st place and 2nd place is 48,783 points. This is almost the same score as 3rd place. Let me reiterate, it's almost the same score as 3rd place.

This in itself is proof of the imbalance of scoring potential based on continuous player buffs associated with having emperor, a majority of the keeps and resources (in most cases having all of them) and holding all six scrolls over an extended period, sometimes over 24 hours at a time.

Having an Alliance locked campaign that is unplayable due to performance issues and a 'Standard' campaign that is dominated by one Alliance makes PvP increasingly more unviable each campaign reset. When the entire map is held by one Alliance and is being actively defended by a small group of players who are enhanced by the buffs they hold is demoralisng.

Also, Battlegrounds as a game mode is not the same as open world PvP so if you want to use that as a counter-argument please don't post it here.

Now with Greymoor releasing with many new sets and combat changes that are unbalanced and poorly thought out (my opinion only) will make the whole experience in Cyrodiil terrible.

Vale Cyrodiil 2020.

Mankeyyyyy

I 100% agree that the buffs are way too strong and should be looked at. I've been saying this for years and it's gotten even worse since the hammer was added. There are other buffs as well you didn't even mention that can stack the odds against you even further. If you're alliance has EMP, all scrolls and enemy keep bonuses, then you get an aylied well and a continuous attack, you're basically walking around as a mini emperor. It's actually crazy how much of a difference these buffs make in fights, and I get that the well and continuous attack can be gotten by everyone, but it still adds a layer of randomness to pvp that I could honestly do without.

Mankeyyyyy

I forgot to mention that continuous attack matters more on 6k+ weapon damage stam builds than mag builds but I guess that's a discussion for another day.

Aquatorch

I wish someone from ZOS would acknowledge there is a problem. Here we are again, 1June2020, and my entire group of good players is now logging off because we can't fight against other good players with these insane buffs they have. YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE AN EXTRA 5-PIECE SET OF ARMOR WORTH OF BUFFS, AND MORE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TAKEN 100% OF THE MAP!

Aquatorch

It's already a tough task when a group of four is trying to defeat a group of eight. The tasks are considerably harder when the group of eight all have an extra 9% damage done, resists, and 3k or so health no one else has.

Durham

No reason for a dominating faction to have the buffs. Having a emp on smaller campaign is already bad enough. People take keeps for AP most of the time. No reason for buffs of any type in pvp. I can see gold buffs, drop buffs, siege cost reduction and repair buffs.

1 emp in com with a group 3-8 with zone pug group and buffs, is to much on a low pop server. Often fighting 2 to 3 man groups or a 6-8 man non com pug group.

I have seen this server have 3 bars on blue 1 bar of yellow 1 bar of red. Yellow gated and yellow does not even have low pop bonus. So yellow logs. Server dies for a few hours until blue gets bored and log.

Durham

The smaller server has seen this happen time and time again. Each faction has been dominate!